Thor Civil War

Would Thor have been Team Cap or Team Ironman?

or would he have just stayed out of it or beat both sides down?

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How about those comics, Sup Forums?

Probably Cap or Neutral.

Tony was just being fuckstupid.

i'm really looking forward to deadpool this week

Thor has NEVER liked Tony.

Also, He's part of an extra-planetary leadership. They'd have to give him or a chosen representative some manner of diplomatic immunity.

Where pretty much anyone at any point could knock him down and say, "IT'S JUST BEEN REVOKED"

it's a stupid fucking conflict that could be solved instantly if people just sat and talked about it, so

Thor would not let bureaucrats tell him who could and could not save.

he'd likely have helped out Caps out of being more friends with him while not really caring or understanding the whole registration thing.

he would have made them talk for 5 minutes and settle that shit

or told the collective governments of earth to stop imposing shit they can't enforce

actually if thor is part of the avengers then it being under a government in some way is fucking retarded because earth is one of the nine realms that'll be under his fucking rule.

this, pretty sure he would've been team cap

sorry tony

They try talking on the movie, several times. Every single time they just end fighting due to Stark being a dumbass and when it's actually going to work Zemo simply plays the video because he knew that was going to happen. Have you even seen the movie?

Also Thor is irrelevant since Vision was already on it

100% Cap. Thor isn't interested in being checked or limited.

Also

>Rogers, you say you want to rescue your friend who is like a brother to you, whom you have battled with for years, who has done terrible things without his own control and wants to repair what he has damaged? Say no more. Those who stand in our way shall stand no longer.

just like real life!

Tony obviously. Because he would have engineered a clone that does whatever he says and this time when some black guy gets shot in the chest he wouldn't have been so pissy about it.

Probably Neutral, but leaning towards Cap's arguments.

He wouldn't like authority over his shoulder telling him what fight he should partake in, so Cap.

Come to think of it, Banner would probably join team Cap as well, since he's had the government on his ass forever.

Just imagine team Iron Man vs Team Cap with Thor and Hulk. That would be SEVERELY one sided.

I think Thor and the Hulk are weak(character-wise) characters and I believe Civil War was made better by them not appearing.

Alternatively Banner would be pro-reg because he knows that his powers need to be restrained and doesn't like his role in the team all that much

Eaten popcorn and took bets with the rest of his crew.
Would have probably stepped in and told them to chill out if one of them were going to get completely fucked up for all eternity.

This.

Never mind it's never said if the nine realms actually pay tribute to Asgard or anything about their relationship beyond under Asgard's nominal rule. If earth's governments REALLY push it, Odin might start getting nasty beyond just invading to 'teach them a lesson'/''pacify them'.

Nah. He has a LOT of bad blood with the army and Ross specifically.

He'd be a neutral party and told the pro-reg side to get fucked.

He would have stopped the two kids from fighting, had them sit the fuck down, and talk it out. Thor is too old to put up with that bullshit.

Would Thor, as a future king himself, support open defiance against the ruling governments? As much as he does view himself above earth's petty politics, he does have respect for legitimate authorities.

I thought in the comics for Civil War Banner was off-world?

I believe She-Hulk was pro-reg but only cause she was forced into it by the army.

The whole conflict of MCU hulk is that the government wants to use him as a weapon and he doesn't want to let the Hulk fall into anyone else's hands. If he didn't fuck off at AoU, he definitely would now. He wouldn't fight for either side, he'd just disappear.

That depends if they try to regulate Thor. If they're genuinely dumb enough to attempt that, earth might need to elect new leaders, because the old ones will be ash.

He defied his king when he was being an unreasonable petty asshole with a grudge because his wife died.

So yes, he would stand against authority if he feels they are wrong in their stances.

he would have tried to play nice, up to the point where the UN got in the way.

if it's something like dark world happening on earth again, he would have just told the UN to fuck themselves.

"Thor: Ragnarok" is happening at the same time as CA:CW so Thor's a lil bit busy to chose a side trying to save Asgard & all the nine realms.

Slott retconned things by claiming Tony played the "Pro Reg side was the law & order side" card on Shulkie.

Ironic when you consider how Due Process flew out the window & an unconstitutional draft was instated...

third times the charm right?

I really hope this one is good because Thor is a dank ass character and could have team ups with Gotg and Adam Warlock.

Case in point: Rhodey.

I-I like all the Thor movies.

What? Cap was being fuck stupid in the movie. Tony was NEVER in the wrong.

I know that they aren't very good, but I just like Thor.

What're your thoughts on the "leaks" for the next one?

The Accords explicitly say that if you don't want to serve the council, you can retire and they'll forgive your past crimes.

>Tony was NEVER in the wrong.
Except for the whole bit about he was literally wrong about the fact that Winter Soldier was framed.

And yet Tony wanted him to get help. Not be imprisoned for life. I'm sorry but Bucky needs help, not be left to run free. He is obviously still able to be influenced by the programming and that shouldn't be left to chance.

Cap was being a total fuckwit the entire time.

That sounds pretty interesting. It could happen. And I think it will have to be pretty dark, especially if we're seeing asgard fall to hela

I just hope they actually mean it this time unlike AoU.

Ultron was just a quipping piece of shit, at no point did he really feel menacing as he was portrayed as in the trailers.

He's automatically registered as full retard for wanting the Avengers restrained by the fucking United Nations, which accomplishes shit and exists more as a symbol than anything at all practical or functional.

>I'm sorry but Bucky needs help, not be left to run free.
This. It was never Stark's decision to send a kill squad after him. He just wanted to bring them all in.

Don't forget all the times he literally said to Cap that it'd be better to turn him in to them (in other words among friends), than just toss him to Ross.

Tony, even though he was as bullheaded as Cap was, tried to get things settled peacefully multiple times. It was always Cap that threw the first punch (until the end fight). Even though Tony was being a bit stupid about the frame up (to be fair, they assumed he wouldn't believe them, and never bothered to explain it to him properly), he was still trying to be as reasonable as he could.

He's a member of a monarchy. That necessitates a rigid class structure. No one in Asgard does a fucking thing that Odin doesn't want them to do.

So yeah, Thor would be all "Whatever dudes, who needs to check with anyone before being a hero?" Like that time he did his own thing and almost started a war and got the fuck banished to this shit-hole.

Is it sad that what I'm looking forward to most is the new Captain Marvel Masterwork? I really want to have Death of Captain Marvel in print.

Something tells me he would have found the whole thing ridiculous. I doubt he'd even consider placing himself under the authority of human government. Maybe he'd take Cap's side, but the actual fight was more over Bucky than the Accords, so that makes it more complicated. Realistically I think he would've fucked off back to Asgard; the events going on would have been neither important to him or needing of his presence to resolve them.

Plus they gotta introduce Beta Ray Bill if Thor is just out wondering the Universe.

Sounds VERY interesting if becomes true.

He also CANNOT be checked or limited, so what does he care?

Tony wasn't wrong for wanting to get Winter Soldier help, he was wrong for trusting Bucky in goverment hands after they had proven themselves corrupt several times over.

Cap's cautiousness and suspicions about the Accords were proven right the second that a kill squad was sent after Bucky, proven even more when Bucky was denied a lawyer, and further proved when General Ross immediately started yanking Tony around like a dog on a leash the second the Accords were signed.

How about you actually watch the movies before talking.

Thor has gone against Odin when Odin's being an ass.

And got all his friends, including goddamn Heimdall, to break Asgardian law to do the right thing.

This. Ross turning Tony into his bitch for over half the movie justifies all of Steve's warnings.

If Bucky turned himself in he's wanted for murder in a fuckton of countries, would be taken by the likes of Ross and detained anyway (look how well that worked) and shit would've been much harder. Cap had to clear Bucky's name before bringing him in. Tony's solutions were shit.

They ended up in a prison beneath the sea because the UN can not be trusted.

>Thor has gone against Odin when Odin's being an ass.

Thor did his own thing, and got banished. Thor has people he answers to. Dude, everyone's seen these movies. Calm down.

Agreed.

Honestly i dont know why Tony went along with this in the first place, it's never been like him to cow down to people in authoritative positions even when he thinks they're right.

I think he just got shook when that lady told him about her son. And he's always had those thoughts about letting people down. This was just his way of shifting the blame away from himself and the Avengers entirely. It was him trying to run away from the burden of choice and the consequences that come from being able to have them.

He did go against Odin again when shit went south after that.

>implying Vision has anything on Thor

Neutral, or Cap. Not because he believes in Cap's principles, but because he believes that the laws of Earth do not apply to Gods like himself. This was his position in the comics. He gave no fucks about the laws of men because he was above them and not bound to them due to his godhood. If Tony tried to get him to sign, though, he would fight on Cap's side.

Considering that "Odin" would have been Loki at that time, yeah, he'd tell Thor to put the UN in their place.

He has an infinity gem. That's a big deal.

The infinity gem gives him his consciousness. It has nothing to do with the rest of his powers. He has never used the mind gem for its intended purpose on anybody else in any movie he's appeared in so far.

That makes sense. I think at this point, after Ultron and all the mistakes Tony's made, he was looking for some kind of obvious right choice to make to redeem himself. He was hoping the Accords and what they represented would be it. To add some evidence to this, the woman who confronts him does so after the flashback sequence where he discusses the great lengths he went to to try and erase the mistake of not telling his father he loved him before he died.

I can empathize with Tony in his choices honestly, even though I think they're wrong. He's tired of making mistakes and just wants to put a W in the book. He was in a state that left him ripe to being duped by something he shoud've taken a harder look at.

You clearly didn't, seeing as you can't even realize that I'm talking about the Dark World, where Thor went against Odin's orders, because the Allfather was blinded by his grief over Frigga and willing to sent the realm to shit for revenge.

And Frigga is Thor's beloved mother, so it's not like the shit Malekith pulled didn't hurt him deeply.

All this just reinforces that if he has to take a side, he will put his allegiance with Cap.

Tony is very emotionally compromised since Ultron, so he has changed his tune out of guilt (guilt drives a lot of his actions).

I laughed when Rhodey was telling falcon "the un is a big deal dude! Don't laugh it off, they'll send strongly worded letters to you!"

He'd be Team Cap. Pretty obvious Thor has more of a rapport with him than he does with Tony.

There were so many missed opportunities though. Imagine Thor brought in to some meeting with UN representatives, and they ask him to leave his hammer in the "waiting room" as a sign he intends to be peaceful. In the room are also Tony, Vision ad Rhodey there with their suits close at hand, as they explain the situation to Thor. Thor tells them the way they're trying to treat their champions is stupid, that you can't have trust when every policy is ruled by paranoia and says he's leaving. They say he can't, they can't let him join up with Cap, and the "waiting room" is actually a bunker designed to contain the hammer, block his ability to call it, and the whole thing was just dropped down a thousand-foot shaft into the ground, and now Thor needs to come with them quietly. Thor grins, knocks Vision around while Tony and Rhody suit up, kicks their asses as well, then when they're all down just holds up his hand and the whole room shakes as Mjolnir crushed through stone, concrete and steel to get back to him, and he just walks out.

It is pretty sad seeing Tony like this. He's such a god damn emotional wreck after all that's happened and you can tell. The man just wants to do something right for once. And not in the "sacrifices sometimes have to be made" kind of right but something unquestionable that he can look back on and say i made the right decision.

>They ended up in a prison beneath the sea because the UN can not be trusted.

Their last little fist fight? The one where a guy tore the wing off a multi-million dollar commercial airline and hit other people with it? Here's the thing. They didn't own that shit. That airport tower they destroyed? That's pretty god damned expensive. Someone has to answer for that shit too. All the people traveling to and from that country? We're talking millions in collateral damage. Caused by fugitives. Aiding and abetting another fugitive. Hell, Bucky blew up a fucking road too. And he stole a motorbike and Cap beat up and stole a cop's car. All of these things are as illegal as shit. All done before the guys put in the raft decided to help him flee the country.

The accords were signed by the UN. They were traveling to other countries blowing up infrastructure and beating up lawful troops and blowing up cop cars. They weren't put in jail cause Ross was an asshole. They were put in jail because they were breaking all the laws.

Scarlet Witch was involved in an incident that killed dozens of completely innocent people. In a country they were not authorized to be superheroes in. They didn't ask countries if they could come in and beat up bad guys there. They just decided it was ok. Was she responsible for the dead people? No. But they firmly said "you can't do this kind of shit without us anymore. You can't because people fucking died." She did it anyway. Helping a known international fugitive. She earned that cell.

Running from cops is illegal. No matter how innocent you think your friend is, helping him run is illegal too. It doesn't matter if you're innocent. Breaking millions of dollars of federal and commercial property *while running from the law* is in itself the kind of shit that get you thrown in prison. They all earned their way into the Raft.

Thor shattered an infinity gem with a little lightning. It got itself back together, but that was a love tap compared to some thing hurt Thor has dished out. Malekith had one too, Thor was able to fight him head-on. And Malekith knew how to use it. Vision uses his for lasers and sentience. Wooooo, so impressive.

It was never about letting Bucky run free. It was above proving he didn't bomb the UN, which nobody including Tony and especially Ross was interested in hearing. They all just assumed he did it and wanted to make an example out of him because it would be politically convienient.

All he had to do was stop trying to be in charge. And that's exactly what he did in CW, he just sublimated his will to the wrong person. In AoU, Cap was against the Ultron plan from the start, had Tony actually listened to the man in charge from the beginning, there would still be a Sarkovia.

Cap is an American. It's every American;s duty to defy and fight against unjust laws, it's how this country was founded. And let's not even get into the fact the UN has NO authority to enforce ANYTHING in the US. "Signed by the UN." Too bad that means nothing.

They've always operated outside of nearly every law there is, the movie talks about them going pretty much wholly unchecked. Damn near every super hero does this though. It's a bit late to be bringing that into the equation and this is the shell shock that comes from trying to treat them as such and insisting they need to be. None of this would have happened if they just let them sort it out among themselves.

Tony's one consistent character flaw is overreaction. He has sudden and extreme responses to emotional stimuli. The more personal the tragedy, the harsher he reacts. This is shown at multiple times throughout the various movies he appears in, and it all culminates when he tries to get revenge on Bucky.

Honestly, if you're not expecting this sort of bullshit from him by now, you haven't been paying attention.

>He did go against Odin again when shit went south after that.

He still answers to Odin. it's kind of how Kings work.

>You clearly didn't, seeing as you can't even realize that I'm talking about the Dark World

Your lack of clarity isn't my fault.

youtube.com/watch?v=3HRmyq9ZPEE

There he is, at the end of that movie, on his fucking knees. But he doesn't answer to Odin cause reasons.

Yeah but it's never been to the point where he'll bend over backwards for governments. It's a huge shift for him to make, up until now it's always been about personal struggle for him and the people close to him. Anytime someone in authority tries to strong-arm their way into his decisions he rebukes them handily.

>Cap is an American. It's every American;s duty to defy and fight against unjust laws

There's nothing unjust about it being illegal to destroy millions of dollars of shit you do not own.

>None of this would have happened if they just let them sort it out among themselves.

Did you miss the part where they keep killing people? That's them sorting it out for themselves. I know that you empathize with them cause they're the stars of the movie but people have a right to own things and not have some jackass in tights destroy that shit.

It's unjust to punish people for something they did while essentially unconscious.

Killing who? Far as i can tell they killed no one other than in the beginning from that explosion. Every other death you think might have occurred from them is speculation.

>The accords were signed by the UN. They were traveling to other countries blowing up infrastructure and beating up lawful troops and blowing up cop cars. They weren't put in jail cause Ross was an asshole. They were put in jail because they were breaking all the laws.

They were trying to prevent an international criminal from gaining access to a bunker with five super soldiers that he would then use to destabilize the world. If anyone reasonable could see things through Cap's eyes at that moment, they would understand why they couldn't stop and explain things to some government cronies that wouldn't believe them anyway, and even if they did believe them, not until it was too late. That was an unquestionably right decision. Captain America wasn't wrong for putting the world on the line for Ross's ego.

>Scarlet Witch was involved in an incident that killed dozens of completely innocent people. In a country they were not authorized to be superheroes in. They didn't ask countries if they could come in and beat up bad guys there. They just decided it was ok.

Had she done nothing, people would've died anyway. Yeah she fucked up, but that's a far cry from a moral wrong. And in the bigger picture, the Avengers not getting themselves involved in that situation would have led to an even worse catastrophe of an international terrorist getting his hands on a bioweapon.

A running theme of this movie is that the people in authority positions were constantly making the wrong choices because they were always acting as hard as they could off of a limited perspective. They didn't know that Bucky was innocent, didn't know that Zemo was heading to that bunker, didn't know that essentially all of this was orchestrated by one man that, if they had things their way, would have escaped, his crimes never coming to light. Yes, they made the wrong choices out of a lack of information, but they were wrong choices all the same.

>It's unjust to punish people for something they did while essentially unconscious.

We lock people away who weren't in control of their actions every god damned day.

In literally every scenario the Avengers were involved in, they limited potential damage. Take the Avengers out of Sokovia, Lagos, New York or Washington and every one of those situations is exponentially worse for their absence. Blaming the actions of their enemies on them is as retarded as blaming first responders for the WTC attacks.

>knocks Vision around while Tony and Rhody suit up, kicks their asses as well

that's the thing, Thor is too OP for civil war to have been a fair fight. If cap had him and scarlet, the fight would've been over in like 2 minutes.

Although I would've loved something like that. We need Thor to show off his strength more.

Like who? And still where did i say that was just?

Not without a lawyer and due process.

Bucky is LITERALLY mind-controlled, in a fucking comic-book sense. Psychopaths, emotionally damaged individuals, people who were swayed by charismatic cult leaders, etc. aren't even close to the same situation.

I think it would have made it more fair actually.

Vision did a whole lot of sitting around doing nothing when the action at the airport went down. Just chilling on his phone or something cause i swear he only ever appeared in a couple scenes while everyone else fought.

Banner wouldn't be Team Cap, so much as Team FuckThatBastardRoss.

Do you think none of us have seen the movie? They weren't going to put Bucky away, they were going to kill him on sight. When they did nab him, they were going to deny him a lawyer. There's only one term to describe this and it rhymes with smoverment borruption.

This

>They were trying to prevent an international criminal from gaining access to a bunker with five super soldiers

No. Cap was doing all of that before anyone knew anything about any of that shit.

>Had she done nothing, people would've died anyway.

Different people. Also, she was kind of working for a genocidal death-bot last year. She set the Hulk loose on a population center. She hasn't earned all that much trust yet.

>Yeah she fucked up, but that's a far cry from a moral wrong.

The moral wrong was breaking the law, helping someone else break the law because one man, in particular, had to be the guy to punch the bad guy.

Stee could have turned himself in and also told about the super soldiers. An iron-man, Vision, and non-crippled War Machine is who you can send after the bad guy, but no. Cap insisted he be the one cause he trusts no one with the important stuff (Bucky).

>And in the bigger picture,

The bigger picture is exactly that and why Steve needs oversight as much as any of the rest of them. He so desperately needs to be the guy fighting when it's time to fight that he lies and fights off others capable of doing things damn near to the death to ensure it.

If he'd have given that responsibility over to the others there'd have been more people more qualified to punch the bad guy but he insists on doing it solo if it means the alternative is him not being there. That's Cap's flaw.

>Like who? And still where did i say that was just?

The criminally insane.

>Bucky is LITERALLY mind-controlled,

And not in control of his actions and very dangerous. Keeping him locked up isn't about punishment any more than them keeping any psychopath locked up is about punishment. It's about the public good protecting people from and treating the person who kills all the other people.

>They weren't going to put Bucky away, they were going to kill him on sight.

See picture. They would take him into custody and did. All someone had to do was apprehend him, like War Machine did. The UN wasn't going to waltz up to a subdued prisoner and cap him. That argument is specious cause we have picture proof of them not killing him when he was subdued.

Breaking the law isnt necessarily a moral wrong. And they absolutely were not going to treat Bucky fairly considering all he's done.

Not that guy you responded to just pointing that out.

Still fundamentally different from what's happened here.

>No. Cap was doing all of that before anyone knew anything about any of that shit.

If you're referring to Lagos, he was trying to prevent a terrorist from getting his hands on a bioweapon. He absolutely made the right call there.

>Different people. Also, she was kind of working for a genocidal death-bot last year. She set the Hulk loose on a population center. She hasn't earned all that much trust yet.

The question isn't whether or not she's trusted, its if her actions are justified. They are.

>The moral wrong was breaking the law

It's not inherently morally wrong to break the law.

>Stee could have turned himself in and also told about the super soldiers.

This is an idiotic play. Not only would that waste shitloads of time while he tries to convince them, he DOES try to tell Tony about the super soldiers before they fight. Tony doesn't buy it and sicks Spider-Man on him. Tony's actions in that scene prove that Cap was right about Tony not believing him, but Cap gave him a chance anyway and did everything he could to avoid contact until it became either fight or let Zemo do whatever he wanted.

>The bigger picture is exactly that and why Steve needs oversight as much as any of the rest of them. He so desperately needs to be the guy fighting when it's time to fight that he lies and fights off others capable of doing things damn near to the death to ensure it.

Again, false. He tries to tell Tony about Zemo and Tony shuts him down. Also, Cap recruits a shitload of people to help him take down Zemo.

>If he'd have given that responsibility over to the others there'd have been more people more qualified to punch the bad guy but he insists on doing it solo if it means the alternative is him not being there. That's Cap's flaw.

Again, not true. Cap believed, and was justified in believing, that no one would go after Zemo if he didn't. Tony outright refuses to believe Cap's story until he literally sees physical evidence.

>they absolutely were not going to treat Bucky fairly considering all he's done.
They did EXACTLY that in the movie when they caught it.

>And they absolutely were not going to treat Bucky fairly considering all he's done.

And yet there's the UN troops sitting right next to him in a UN restraining device. They called a psychologist to deal with him. He was subdued, they took him into custody. Of course they treated the lone wolf supersoldier who we know had explosives on him differently than a guy well and truly subdued.

Had Cap said anything to the troops who he knew were moments from breeching the room about negotiations happening, that there was more than one person in the room or that he was Captain America I'm positive Bucky would have been in the same cage with dozens of less injured soldiers and one less blown up freeway.

(blowing up a freeway gets you put in prison, by the way. No one made Bucky do that.)

>Still fundamentally different from what's happened here.

Only in fact that one is impossible.

legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Criminally insane

These people are locked up for their safety and ours and treated. That's exactly what should happen to Bucky. He's not responsible but he IS dangerous and unable to control himself.

They had orders to shoot and kill on sight.

The only reason they didn't is because he got catch with Cap around