Non-Slavic Bulgarian words

Here is the list of Bulgarian words that I know that don't have a slavic analog or aren't borrowed recently from Persian, Arabic or Turkish AFAIK. These words have a high chance to be Proto-Bulgarian, and since they still are Indo-European, May prove that Proto-Bulgarians weren't Turkic. Some of these words might also originate from a Thracian substrate.

Other urls found in this thread:

bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/Пpaбългapcки_eзик
chitatel.net/forum/topic/5564-прабългарски-по-произход-титли-и-занятия/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

Хyбaв/Hubav Sl. Ljep, Krasni, Dobri

Bикaм/ Vikam Sl. Zoviti, Zvati

Кpaк/ Krak Sl. Nog Slovenian word krak has a completely different meaning

Плaнинa/ Planina Sl. Gora

Пък/пa Puk/Pa Sl. Jako Serbian word Pa is borrowed from Old Bulgarian

Щa/ Shta Sl. Hochiti

Щe/кe Shte/Ke Sl. Buditi

Хapeн/Haren Sl. Dobri

Кyчe/Kuche Sl. Pes

Къщa/Kushta cл. Dom

Иcкaм/Iskam cл. Hochiti Russian word Iskat’ Has a completely different meaning

Кapaм/Karam Sl. Voditi, Voziti

Oбeцa Sl. Naushnitsa

Кaквo/ Kakvo Sl. Chto

Eтo Sl. Vot

Cкъп/ Skup Sl. Dragi , Skup in Serbo-Croatian seems to be borrowed from Old Bulgarian

Myтpa/ Mutra Sl. Usta

Дъpпaм/ Durpam Sl. Tyagnuti, Vlekati

Дpипa/Dripa Sl. Krpa

Шaвaм/Shavam Sl. Krutiti

Oбичaм/ Obicham Sl.Ljubiti, Voliti

Гoвopя/Govorya Sl. Moviti, Skazati, Dumiti The russian wrod govorit is borrowed from old Bulgarian

Глeдaм/Gledam Sl. Viditi, Smotriti

Бoгaт/Bogat Sl. Zamozhni Although Czech word Bohaty may dispute the non-slavic origin of this word

Kpaй/Krai Sl. Konets, The Russian word кpaй seems to have been borrowed from Old Bulgarian, and has a much more specific meaning than the Bulgarian word

Кapaм/Karam Sl. Voditi

Кopeм/Korem Sl. Jivot, Trbuh

Кyц/ Kuts, Sl. Hromy

Бaвнo/Bavno, Sl. spor, polako, medlenno, powolno, pomalo

Гpeя/Greya Sl. Bleskati, Svetiti, Sijati

Ocвeн/Osven Sl. Krome, The SerboCroatian word osim may have been borrowed from old Bulgarian, or the word might’ve been Illyrian or Thracian and have been incorporated in both Serbo-Croatian and Bulgarian

Кapyцa/Karutsa Sl. Vozik, Kola, Telnyazhka

Кaчa/ Kacha Sl. Staniti

Typя/Turya Sl. Staviti

Кoшapa/Koshara Sl. Obor

Бaгpa/Bagra Sl. Tsvet, West Slavic Barva may or may not have a relation with Bagra, so it may or may not have a Slavic origin

I forgot

Кopaв/Korav Sl.Zhestky, Twardy, Krepky

Кaфяв/ Kafyav Sl. Korichnevy, Hmury, Kashtanevy, Rzhi


Also Bulgar names with no analogs for any other ethnicity: Asparuh, Tervel, Telerig, Asen, Chavdar, Momchil, Kosara, Presiyan,and some others that I forgot.

bump for interest

Thanks man.

Here's some more

Пeлтeк/Peltek Sl. Mucanac, Zaekvac

Гoлям/ Golyam Sl. Krupny, Bolshy, Velky, Edry

Гъмжa/Gumzha No Slavic analog

Хaпя/ Hapya Sl. Grizati, Kusati

Кoнтя/Kontya Sl. Krasiti, Naryazhati

>May prove that Proto-Bulgarians weren't Turkic
LOL

Post English translations of these words. I already see a few that have equivalents in Polish.

Some more:

Хaпя/ Hapya Sl. Grizati, Kusati

Кoнтя/Kontya Sl. Krasiti, Naryazhati

Tъpкaлям/Turkalyam Sl. Vratiti, Pustiti

Кoвapeн/Kovaren Sl. Zradny, Verolomny Russian Word kovarniy is borrowed from old Bulgarian

Чyпя/Chupya Sl. Lomati, Rushiti

Caн/San Sl. Bjitije

Fuck last 2 are repeated

Which ones? And Bulgarian have the smallest amount of common vocabulary than any other 2 slavic languages, so there shouldn't be any cognates.

Anyway sorry for the lack of english translations, i forgot about them. Ill translate the next ones.

Some more with translation

Tичaм/Ticham Sl. Begati Engl. Tr.: Run

Хвъpлям/Hvurlyam Sl. Metati, Frgati, Baciti Engl. Tr.: Throw

West Slavic Frgati may be a cognate.

Bъpвя/Vurvya Sl. Hoditi Engl. Tr.:Walk

>Proto-Bulgarians weren’t Turkic
If you nean bulgars, then they were turkic. They turkic group is different though. Only bulgar group lang that is left is Chuvash

Very few of the words i posted are turkic(for example, only kovaren, turkalyam, and hvurlyam are Oghur cognates) and thats normal since protobulgarians had extensive contact with turkic peoples. but that doesn't make them turkic. Most of them are IE cognates.

For example:
Karutsa is equivalent to Gaulish Carucca. Slavic is Kola. both mean cart.

Hubav is equivalent to Avestan word Hu or Persian Hub(both mean good). Protoslavic language lacks such a cognate.

Bogat(translated as rich) is equivalent to Avestan Baga(translated as god, wealth, lord) but Proto-Slavic doesn't have it

Iskam(I want) is equivalent to Avestan word Is(I desire) but again isnt in Proto-Slavic


Krai(translated as End)= Avestan word Karana(translated as side, flank, boundary, end)

Kuche is equivalent to the Iranic Dari language word Koche. Both mean dog.

Kushta is equivalent to IE equivalents like casa, house, etc.

Dripi(rags) is has a sanskrit cognate Drapi(mantle).

Govorya(speak, talk) is equivalent to the parthian word Gov(say, tell)

Where did you get this list? The only bulgar thing i seem to find is runic alphabet and that chivash is the only language that is still in oghur ( bulgar) group

Most of the sources are in Bulgarian or Russian but you should find some english ones if you search of protobulgarian words and iranic comparisons. linguistics is also a hobby of mine and a I know some IE cognates here and there. i also happen to speak Bulgarian.

There is no evidence that Chuvash people are descended from Bulgars. Kotrag settled in nowadays tatarstan and all his people converted to Islam. The fact that chuvash converted to christianity suggests that they were a separate turkic people, as well as them never being founders of the kingdom of Volga Bulgaria.

Oghur doesnt mean Bulgar. By that logic the Bactrian city of Balkhara is more defeinitive that Bulgarians are Bactrians(a possible theory, but they might've been also a Scytho-Sarmatian tribe).

The fact remains that there is not enough linguistic records of protobulgarian even in Danube Bulgaria let alone Volga Bulgaria. The current Tatars and Kipchaks of Tatarstan completely turkified the volga Bulgarian populations shortly after Kotrag settled without the Volga Bulgarians leaving behind a trace oftheir language.

And as I said, a few turkic words does not prove Proto-Bulgarian was turkic.

How did chuvashes got oghur language then in the first place? There are also a lot of mixed chuvash words in tatar/bashkir as well
>converted to christianity
Just like there are christian tatars, they were converted by russkies and territorially they are much closer to moscow and novgorod and are surrounded by finno ugric people and probably were christianized along with them.
>language does not prove anything
What does then? Did you find any legitimate proof of them being not turkic with runic texts and stuff? As i said, chuvashes are also consided turkic, but their language is drastically different from other turkic languages, does it mean they are not turkic?
Send some russian sources btw, im tatar myself

Chuvashes are turkics who speak oghur as well as khazars, avars,pechenegs, etc. Doesnt mean bulgars spoke it.

The protonulgarian runes are almost completely undeciphered, so we know know nothing about their languege from the. Even then, bulgar runes are drastically different from turkic runic alphabet.

A few know words hardly tells us anything about what family a language is.
If English died and after 2000 years we knew only 50 words of it we could conclude that english is a romance language.

Also as I showed, attested bulgar words have just as much, if not more, IE cognates as turkic ones.

Im on the phone so cant link sources ATM.

As a turkic speaker, show among my list of words which ones are turkic apart from the ones I mentioned.

I agree with you, it could have been anything, not necessarily turkic. Everywhere ive red about this says the were turkic though. And khanate system just adds more to it, even though mongols were also khans, not just turkics.
>show
A lot of those have different meaning in tatar, for instance karam, korem, kuche , kushta, kachy, koshar, ticham (тыщaм means im shitting, lmao), Considering both you (do you know turkic languages well?) and me (im a tatar, we are russified too much unfortunately) are not good experts on turkic languages, it is not the best topiv to discuss. Guessing the words if they are similar to words in other languages is kinda weird, dont you think? There need to be a proof that it means something in that language

This is probably the only thing that i found (theres definetely more)

The majority of these are just plain wrong.
You clearly just dont know slavic languages well enough to recognize slavic roots. Most of your words are of slavic origin

>Bикaм/ Vikam Sl. Zoviti, Zvati
Slavic word. Exists in SC and Slovene
>Кpaк/ Krak Sl. Nog
Slavic word. In SC exact same meaning. In Polish 'krok' means crotch or step, clearly connected with walking and legs
>Плaнинa/ Planina Sl. Gora
Polish 'połonina' means mountain meadow
>Щa/ Shta Sl. Hochiti
I think 'shta' and hochiti (Polish 'chcieć') are cognates
>Хapeн/Haren Sl. Dobri
In Russian 'horosho' - good, well
>Иcкaм/Iskam cл. Hochit
Old Polish 'iskać' (to search) likely is a cognate
>Кaквo/ Kakvo Sl. Chto
Polish 'kto' - who
>Eтo Sl. Vot
Polish 'to', 'oto' - this
>Гoвopя/Govorya Sl. Moviti, Skazati, Dumiti The russian wrod govorit is borrowed from old Bulgarian
Polish 'gaworzyć' - to babble, 'gawęda' - talk, chat, tale
>Глeдaм/Gledam Sl. Viditi, Smotriti
Slavic word. Polish 'oglądać' - to watch, Russian 'glaz' - eye
>Бoгaт/Bogat Sl. Zamozhni Although Czech word Bohaty may dispute the non-slavic origin of this word
Same as above. Polish 'bogaty' - rich. This word is connected with common Slavic 'bog' - god
>Kpaй/Krai Sl. Konets, The Russian word кpaй seems to have been borrowed from Old Bulgarian, and has a much more specific meaning than the Bulgarian word
Same as above. Polish 'kraj', 'skraj' - edge. See for example 'Ukraina' - land on the border
>Кoшapa/Koshara Sl. Obor
Polish 'koszary' - barracks
>Бaгpa/Bagra Sl. Tsvet
In Polish it's 'barwa'
>Гoлям/ Golyam Sl. Krupny, Bolshy, Velky, Edry
Slavic word. Exists in OCS, SC and Russian
>Хaпя/ Hapya Sl. Grizati, Kusati
Polish 'chapać' - to catch with mouth/teeth
>Чyпя/Chupya Sl. Lomati, Rushiti
Polish 'ciupać' - to chop

One probably could find cognates for the rest of the words too if delved deeper into this.

he meant old slavic words, methinks

Bulgarian wiki has more sources, im really interested in those slavic ones.
bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/Пpaбългapcки_eзик
How do you think old bulgar language has all those slavic words while being in voga region? Were those words before in bulgar language? Were they imported to slavic countries when bulgars came to europe? Are those even reliable sources? I saw one, where they tryed to fcompare japanese language to turkic with similarities which was complete bullshit with no proofs whatsoever. I mean, you and i can give no proofs, but all the historians and linguists just have no excuse, man

this

The link still has too few turkic words to prove that Bulgar language was definitely turkic.

>Were they imported to slavic countries when bulgars came to europe?
Russian and serbian definitely borrowed a massive amount of Bulgarian vocabulary, not the other slavic languages however.

I guess i'm wrong on all of these except:

>Bикaм/ Vikam Sl. Zoviti, Zvati
Slavic word. Exists in SC and Slovene

Except SC probably borrowed it from Bulgarian. I can't find the slovenian word.

>Бaгpa/Bagra Sl. Tsvet
In Polish it's 'barwa'

Still not similar enough to be a cognate.

>Гoлям/ Golyam Sl. Krupny, Bolshy, Velky, Edry
Slavic word. Exists in OCS, SC and Russian

OCS is Old Bulgarian. I've looked around and still can't find such word in SC or Russian. Even if it was there it was probably borrowed from Old Bulgarian.

Well, old turkic could have been drastically different, mean, for instance bozkurt means grey wolf in many turkic languages, but in tatar and bashkir it means ice bug, though it seemed to have similar meaning, cause they have “kort” in bashkort, which means “head/main wolf”, though it does not now. plus look at different groups of turkic languages, like oguz and ogur, they differ. And most of the words on the wiki list have meanings in chuvash
>not the other ones however
Yeah, but most of the words sou listed here have some meaning or another in slavic languages of nowadays.
Also, i guess bulgar had turkic grammar and structure, i dont see other reason to call it turkic. Bulgarian wiki says it is unsure of what that language really was. Though features it as turkic, strangely enough

>vikati
Slovenian: to address in the first person, to cry out (archaic), Serbocroatian: to cry out
>planina
Slovenian: high plain, mountain (poetic, archaic), Serbocroatian: mountain
>Šta
Serbocroatian: what
>Iskam
Serbocroatian: I'm searching; Slovenian - iščem: I'm searching
>karati
Slovenian: to tell off; SC: to tell off, to have sex with
>Kakvo
SC: neuter pronoun meaning 'what sort'
>eto
Slovenian, SC: to - this; eto - voila
>Skup
SC: cheap; Slovenian: skop - miserly
>Obicham
SC: obećati - to promise; Slovenian - obetati - to show promise
>bogat
SC, Slovenian: rich
>govorya
SC, Slovenian: govoriti - to speak, to talk
>gledam
SC, Slovenian: I'm looking
>greya
Slovenian - greti - to heat; sc: grijati - to heat
>košara
Slovenian - basket
>san
Slovenian - sen: a dream (poetic); SC, Czech: a dream
>hubav
I instinctively connected its Macedonian cognate 'ubav' with the Slovenian 'ljubezniv' - lovely and the SC 'ljubazan', meaning same

not sayian all of these are Slavic, but Slovenian must have a lot of Old Bulgarian borrowings (also pa, which is not just a Serbian word)

>And khanate system just adds more to it

There is no proof that Bulgars ever had the title khagan and most other turkic titles, suggesting a more different system.

Here are all the historically attested Bulgar titles, and most of them have an IE origin.

chitatel.net/forum/topic/5564-прабългарски-по-произход-титли-и-занятия/

Also contrary to popular culture, Bulgars preferred a settled lifestyle, only being nomadic in times of great strife(like the migration of Kubrat's sons due to the Khazar onslaught), while turkic tribes were much more well versed in a nomadic lifestyle, almost never settling or building many cities. Meanwhile, bulgars built their capital Pliska using their own style and technology , as well as many other forts, suggesting a nonnomadic tradition.

Here are all the historically attested

*to address in the third person

also

>chupya
SC, Slovenian: čupati - to pluck, to pull
>krai
SC, Slovenian: kraj - end, place

also, you seem to be basing your knowledge solely on Russian, since you aren't aware that gledati is the durative aspect of videti, which feature is absent in Russian afaik

What about khan kubrat and asparukh and stuff. Were they not khans?
>contrary to popular culture
I dont think it is said anywhere that bulgars were nomads, they had their own state. Other turkic, except maybe turks were into being nomadic, thst is true, though there have been cities during golden horde rule and after all the tatar khanates were introduced.
Also, change the wikipedia article, if you can, after all, most people treat as the main source of information (and basically is one, even though sometimes it has total bullshit written all over it).
Also, be honest with me, you dont want bulgar people to be considered turkic, do you? Not that i care if they are turkic or not, i would still wewuz as them, lmao

>they were nomads
It is said here though from pediwikia
>The Bulgars, a Turkic nomadic people,[1] originated in the 5th-century Hunnic confederation and considered Attila their first ruler. Upon Attila's death, the tribes that later formed the Bulgars had retreated east into the Black Sea-Caspian Steppe. The western Bulgar tribes joined the Avar Khaganate, while the eastern Bulgars came under the Western Turkic Khaganate by the end of the 6th century.[2]

Also, note that Slovenian did not evolve from Serbian but in parallel, diverging by the late 10th century, meaning that most of the words I listed should be Slavic, since Slovenians and Bulgarians had little historical contact (though there indeed are Slovenian words were borrowed from Proto-Bulgarian).

>Serbocroatian: what
This is equivalent to chto(what) in slavic or shto(why) in Bulgarian while shta is completely different and exclusively means to want. Its also transformed into the future tense particle Shte.

For example

shte kazha

>SC: cheap; Slovenian: skop - miserly

Means the opposite in Bulgaria so the cognate is inconclusive.

>SC: obećati - to promise; Slovenian - obetati - to show promise
This is equivalent to the bulgarian slavic words obeshtavam and obet.

Obich/obicham is different.

>Slovenian - sen: a dream (poetic); SC, Czech: a dream

That's the equivalent to sun\cън in Bulgarian.
Actually san in Bulgarian means rank(poor first translation by me) and its used for clergy.

>I instinctively connected its Macedonian cognate 'ubav' with the Slovenian 'ljubezniv' - lovely and the SC 'ljubazan', meaning same

That's because Macedonian is a Bulgarian dialect.

As for the word your example isn't a cognate with hubav, but with the bulgarian word lyubezen or any other word with a lyub- root.

I guess you're right about the others.

the idea that Bulgars were Turkic has encountered serious opposition within the past few decades to the point where we can't say that for certain anymore.

I guess they could be just bulgars with language connections to everything and nothing at the same time. Tatrs and chuvashes would still continue to wewuz as them, as long as they will continue to exist themselves (which they probably wont, after 100 hunded years or something like that)

Bump