Guy literally responsible for creating abomination and probably getting a bunch of people in harlem killed lecturing...

>guy literally responsible for creating abomination and probably getting a bunch of people in harlem killed lecturing the avengers about collateral damage

why is this allowed

Nigga, everyone else turned out to be Hydra

>The guy who lost Hulk originally and only found him because Bruce went to Betty
>Asks Avengers if they know where Hulk is
Ross was always a giant hypocrite. It's in character.

That's...a pretty good point.
All the security and law enforcment and intelligence communities are basically shit, either actually nazis or managed to not realize their coworkers were actual nazis.
Really only leaves the military, and no way in hell anyone as careless as Ross could have been Hydra.

rulk when

Ross has always been a dick, like this user said I'm only disappointed they don't play up his relationship with Banner more.

>Tell me, do you even know where Banner or Thor are right now?
>Tony hangs his head in shame
>later Ross is shown sad and ticking off another failed method on his checklist of ideas to find the Hulk

Blonsky himself is responsible for becoming Abomination. All Ross did was injecting him with a super-soldier serum knock-off which mixed with Banner's blood badly. He'd still become a monster even without that serum in order to become stronger than Hulk, just a less ugly monster than Abomination turned out to be.


tl;dr Ross is a gud boy and dindu nuffin

>responsible for creating abomination
He gave his best soldier, who was completely loyal and upstanding up to that point super-soldier serum, nothing more. Blonsky went mad with power afterwards.
AND he only wants to control them precisely how he wanted to control Hulk, I see no problem there.

>Nigga, everyone else turned out to be Hydra
>Really only leaves the military, and no way in hell anyone as careless as Ross could have been Hydra.
It is ironic that the US government actually became LESS efficient, after all the Nazis are purged from their ranks. But in some way that makes sense; fascists are amazing employees because they obey authority and are focused on efficiency. Even that guy drowned by Zemo was loyal to the death.

Is MCU Hydra even really Nazis?

>why is this allowed
Because capeshit

>american military man doesnt take responsibility for collateral damage

well color me surprised

He's not wrong though

Where the fuck IS the hulk? You don't just fucking lose a hulk.

From General to Secretary of State. Not a bad career.

they "grew" out of it. They dropped the racial theory and just go for complete authoritarian.
you can't contain hulk or thor, they go wherever they please.

>Is MCU Hydra even really Nazis?
If you believe Agents of SHIELD and Agent Carter, no. It just used the Nazis to gain power in Europe to try to conquer the world, but is actually much older, and there was another faction in the US since pre-WWII.

If you believe just the movies, still kind of no, The Red Skull founded HYDRA with the idea that the world must be ruled by men of Godlike power, AKA, superhumans, and Zola continued it with the more general idea that humanity cannot be trusted with their own freedom.

A little thing called character progression

In First Avenger? Absoltuely, that would be like saying "are the SS Nazis"? Modern Hydra is not really, more of an Illuminati, new world order kind of movement, though it still seems somewhat racial. I don't imagine they're very fond of jews.

What about that very obvious Jewish Senator (Congressman?) from Iron Man 2 and Winter Soldier who was Hydra?

Is ignoring all previous plot and characterization called character progression? Nice.

They were never Nazi

I apparently have no idea what makes someone "obviously jewish"

Yeah, I'm pretty sure what that guy said is not really valid. Modern HYDRA employed Sitwell, and he's some kind of Mestizo. Even WWII era was more about superhuman vs human than race vs race.

Ross did

Literally "Nazi deep-science division", Red Skull may have broken off from the Nazis, but he founded it under their authority, with their money, their men, and their oversight.

No see, cause their conflicting missions for world domination.

That doesn't mean he or those under him ever shared their views, though.

Jewish Guy here. Judaism is more than just a religion, but is is it truly a "race", such as the concept actually even exists. It's a group of people from the Middle East who have spread out to other areas, but still keep to themselves a lot of times. So a lot of the "Jewish" traits are semitic/mediterranean traits that have been passed down and kept, even in European society.

Gary Shandling also, is in fact Jewish.

Yeah, and there was dissent within the Nazi party as well, it wasn't a monolithic juggernaut. There are plenty of examples of Nazis that didn't give a shit about the racial purity and purging the jews, but still aligned with them.
At the end, yeah they were probably not Nazis anymore, but they certainly used to be.

We were talking more about political belief system. We all know that HYDRA grew under the Nazis, but it was obvious even in the First Avenger that The Individual members had a different variation on the fascist salute, said "Heil HYDRA" instead of "Heil Hitler" and followed the Red Skull even against the Nazis.

was*

Maybe some were, but not the higher ups, like Zola and Skull, they were more about power, and it was them who dictated the goals of their oganization.

Come again?

He managed to, and he actively looked for him.

He dead

This. among the Semites you find people like the jews, the arabs and... is it sarmatians? whatever. point is, there are more to semites than just the jews.

>fascists are amazing employees because they obey authority and are focused on efficiency
In fiction, yeah. It's part of the idealized narrative of freedom and security that drives the moral tension.
>everything would work so much better if everyone just obeyed authority
>but what if the authority is evil
And then we get some moralizing about the nature of good and evil and freedom and blah blah blah

In reality, not so much. Italy was shitshow and the butt of every joke. Spain lasted the longest, but as soon as the dude died the country just shook off the system with a mild shudder and no problems. Germany has always had a stereotype about their work ethic (although further back than that they were basically Europe's backwoods barbarians). The Nazi regime itself was so full of inefficient branch bickering and infighting and absolute insanity that it's a wonder Germany got as far as it did before their shit started getting pushed in (their spy game was hilariously bad too). There's a reason, in the grand scheme of things, fascism was a short, wet fart of a fad. (At least the mid twentieth century political ideology being discussed here. Authoritarianism in general is a bit more storied and apolitical.)

If you wanted an in universe explanation beyond "the Nazi's new how to keep a time table," you could easily point to having your huge peacekeeping organization publicly exploded and gutted with important government members revealed as traitors causing all sorts of basic management problems. No matter what the reason, losing so much staff, and the psychological effect of realizing how compromised the organization was, is going to cause some problems with day to day effectiveness going forward.

Oh shit, that's right.

>why is this allowed
Because he's the government.
It's what he does.

>watch the incredible hulk
>ross does nothing but fuck up the entire time
>becomes secretary of defense eight years later
Guess it is true what they say about "failing upwards".

Also, who the hell names their kid Thaddeus?

No, they're an ancient death cult that just associated with the Nazis for a while. And had tendrils in everyone else, for that matter.

>Is MCU Hydra even really Nazis?
They are Fascists, and that's really the only element that matters in terms of organisations like Hydra. It makes it believable that smart and otherwise wise people would willingly join Hydra and be so loyal to it. Fascism is a very attractive philosophy that can induce men to do evil in the name of the greater good.

Project Insight in Winter Soldier is basically Fascism in a nutshell. World Order by killing those who could oppose the system. The argument is that by killing all these people NOW, you would save more lives in the future.

He's secretary of state so his mistakes don't count.

>expecting continuity or coherent world building on the MCU

>guy literally responsible for creating abomination
But he isn't

It's called "learning from your mistakes"

True patriot, not a hydra goon.

I knew a guy named Thaddeus. Kind of a dork but a pretty nice guy.