As someone who's never followed Ant Man in the comics all that closely...

As someone who's never followed Ant Man in the comics all that closely, how do the movie versions of Hank and Scott compare to the comics?

You know how fucking crazy Cross was? More or less what became of Hank. They basically just used what Hank became and turned it into the villain of the film.

A lot easier to take in, the comic Pym legacy is all sorts of fucked up.

he hit her ONCE

While in the process of stopping her from telling the Avengers that he built a robot to kill them.

Oh c'mon, Ultron wasn't THAT bad of an idea.

Cross was like a meatbag version of comic Ultron than anything else.

Not Ultron, that was an accident. When he hit Jan it was to stop her from telling them about Salvation-One, which he built to try to kill them so he could show up and defeat it so he could be the big hero who saved the day.

Comics Scott is very generic. Movie made him a bit more of a goofball.

Look can we all agree that was ONE time! He hasn't done anything wrong.

I have to ask, why is the evolution of helmets in the Marvel world seem to be
>Sliding facemask
>Detachable facemask
>Magic Stark thing

What the fuck, Hank.

So, is that whole "Shrinking destroys your mind" thing a fabrication of the movie, or was Hank's not really wearing a helmet often a serious problem for him?

And yet slapping Jan is the incident people remember.

Pym-particle users have gotten to the point where they don't require a suit or button to shrink. It's basically become a super power after prolonged exposure.

And it was a shit thing to do on his part but he ended up paying for it amd regrets it more rhan anything not to mention Jan forgave him and both moved on.

In comparison Cross is a psycho with Pym daddy issues, if anything he is more like Ultron.

No. In the comic, Hank is Bipolar. Which is why he does fucked up shit.

I wish I saved it, but someone made a very good writeup on Sup Forums once about how Hank is basically a villain at heart trying his best to do good.

Comics Hank has really bad mental problems. Bipolar, split personality shit. The movie decided to blame this on the Pym particles.

Originally he was an insecure troublwd scientist with a size complex who had a mental breakdown and some chemicals being spilled on him fucked him up good to tje point he developed another pwrsonality (Yellowjacket) then the bipolar thing was added by Humphries and then the whole "Hank was a special kid who only his grandma Angela understood" backstory was added later too.

To the point that prolonged exposure causes them to be able to naturally produce it.

Which means Scott and Hope will go crazy too.

So which did you guys prefer? Ant-man suit or CW suit?

CW helmet, Ant-Man costume.

CW costume is way too fucking busy.

Ant-man suit but I can't put words to why

Cw suit

I like the Ant-Man suit more, but prefer the Civil War helmet.

The rest of the Civil War suit is by no means bad, though. Just not quite as good as the Ant-Man suit.

I didn't even know that they were different.

Did Jan and Hank ever get back together after that? Or have they been broken up in comics ever since?

Hank obsessed over her after she died(?) trying to bring her back, but when she did come back, they never got back together.

didn't Hank say the Ant-Man helmet protects against that?

Yes, but it's not clear to what degree. Hank didn't seem to start to lose it until years into his career, and never went that far gone except for the occasional somewhat justified head punch. Cross went straight up murdering psychopath within a few days/weeks. Hank also said that even with the helmet, he can't use the suit anymore.

So it seems like even with the helmet, you still get Pymitis after several years of heavy use.

...

Ant-Man suit.

He wasn't even trying to hit her. By Jim Shooter's account, he wrote it in the script as being more like "Hank is waving his arms and gesticulating like a crazy person and he accidentally hits Jan."

Then the artist drew it in the most dramatic way possible.

He should just go full supervillain on a permanent basis.

and Ultron should become a hero just to spite him

>Ultron joins the Avengers when Pym tries to shrink the world

He tried to hit her before that while she was in shunk-form, and then used her to test out his murderbot he was going to use to con the Avengers into thinking of him as a hero again. He had completely gone off the deep end.

I love love love the Ant-Man suit, it looks like Hank built it in a garage on weekends. The CW suit looks way too clean and superhero-y.

Naw Tony is what Hank was in the comics. The whole insecurity and self worthlessness came from Hank.

Wasn't Cross also working off his own variant of the Pym Particles or am I just making that up?

I love the idea that Peter Parker was going to somehow end up like Doc Ock. A mad scientist that wanted to prove everyone how great he is. But Uncle Ben death made him change his life.

Like with how before the spider bite he said he would teach them all someday.

I don't think that's how MCU's Peter is. He doesn't seem the type.

In the comics, even after he became a superhero, his personality didn't do a complete 180 over night. To be honest, the idea that modern 616 Peter and the Peter from way back when the character was introduced are the same person is almost unbelievable.

It wasn't built to kill them; it was built to fool them into believing they were in danger, so he could swoop in and save them. Still a dick thing to do; crazy and selfish, but let's not pretend he intended them any harm.

It's important to note that this was a fuckup on the part of the artist. In the actual script, Hank is described as gesticulating around as he's shouting, not paying attention to what he's doing, and one of his hands hits her in the face as he makes some grand sweeping gesture mid-rant. The artist did a VERY poor job of capturing the writer's intent with that panel.

The comics did that too actually. More of a retcon though to give Hank some of his superhero cred back.

Should of had him facing away from her.

post-movie ant-man comic is very movie accurate

Hank Pym should be the next Ant-Man movie villain.

Have him steal Stark's base programming for Ultron to create a new Ant-Man/Yellowjacket suit that can control mini Ultron-like ant drones with a hivemind system, under the guise that "he'll be a superhero" in place of Scott and Hope. In actuality, it's his insecurities and inferiority-complex over Howard Stark's legacy that's causing him to go nuts. He blames it on the faulty tech that is Ultron which Stark built but later realizes that it's just a shell protecting the broken man inside.

Fuck off Wright. There's no need to make Hank a villain

Haven't seen CW so I don't know how they did Spidey in that but rereading Ditko's Spidey run its fun to see him as this highly selfish punk that keeps wanting to prove how great he is. It's just that he slowly matured while in high school and became a better person.

The writer also voiced his regret over this, and he feels really bad for the rep that Hank built because of that fuckup on the artist's part.

Specifically for Hank, this image does a good job of sumarizing the first big chunk of his life.

Afterwords things got worse. Then better, then WAY worse, then kinda better, and now he's fused with Ultron in some anime ass bullshit to find inner peace or self worth or some shit like that.

Lang in the comics is closer, a bit less goofy and more serious, his daughter's also considerably older.

Or have the first panel or two with him waving around like a maniac.

>Pym
>lowering his standards enough to use something made by a Stark

With Ultron having daddy issues and Hank feeling "small" (sorry didn't really mean to make it a joke but it is the best term for him). Them coming to grips with each other like that might be for the best.

>now he's fused with Ultron in some anime ass bullshit to find inner peace or self worth or some shit like that.
Rage of Ultron was good and you know it.

>Pym
>use something made by a Stark
>not making better use of it and improving on what it was before because of his own ego

...

This. A thousand times this. It's the artist that fucked up, and Pym paid for it for years.

Yeah, agreed. Poor execution on both sides there, but it's so cemented in the minds of most readers at this point that there's nothing much that can be done about it now.

Sorry, that came off more negative than I meant it to.

I said anime bullshit in the most positive manner.

Sounds like the movie versions are more likeable, reading all this.

Nah. Hank is super likable.

He's one of the biggest fuck-ups in comics, but that's what makes him interesting. He has given up a lot, but he always keeps trying, and he's incredibly humble about everything. He has some pretty serious self-image issues, and just ends up being really adorable. Plus he's just a dork.

Hank is likable. It's just writers have a bit too much fun with him. Using his flaws to a degree you really never see in comics.

The problem is that no one really took him seriously so to make him interesting they made him kind of crazy.

I think I read that Lee thought of putting Ant-Man in the Avengers mostly because it would be weird and make no sense. So even before writers really got their hands on Hank everyone already felt he was pretty useless as a character.

I am so hard from this idea, go on.

Personally I like both. Movie Hank feels right for his limited role but comic Hank makes for one hell of a fun ride.

Which makes considering in Wright's version, Hank Pym was the villain.

Given it's in fact Ant-Man thread:
Can someone give me a basic Hank Pym must-read list?

Wait really? Fuck now something like this needs to happen even more Serious question though, which other villain could they use that would make as good of a conflict for Scott and Hope?

So Hank became a villain because his wife was a writers waifu?

Don't think that's true. Honestly what I think happened was that Hank was a joke at Marvel. They kept him around because to them Hank was just one big joke. Wasp however people felt they could use her in other stories. So the plan was to have Hank go crazy and Jane leave him so they can use her without really needing Hank. But leave it open for Hank to redeem himself later on. However as been pointed out the art kind of fucked that up where no one liked Hank anymore because of what he did to his wife.

huh, never thought about that. he really kinda was huh

Pym is one bad day from becoming a one of the greatest villians in history unlike reed who is confirmed a villian

Wake up sheep Richard's must be stopped before it's too late

It's a shame because by not being literally Ultron, the idea kinda flew over a lot of people's heads.

All this talk of Hank Pym being an unwitting villain kinda makes me wish he gets turned into one in the MCU just because he was robbed of his Ant-Man/Giant Man role.

Shut up Doom you can't even cuck him properly

I like how the helmet looks vaguely Ultron-ish.

Now if they could link Pym to Ultron again.

I would read the hell out of an Ant-Man story that centered around a horrible day, leading to him destroying the Fantastic 4 and the Avengers

The person who stops SuperHank?

Gwenpool

>Now if they could link Pym to Ultron again.
>Pym literally turns himself into an Ultron-lite
Rage Of Ultron adaptation as an Ant-Man film when?

>Wasp however people felt they could use her in other stories.
Sounds like she was their waifu

Tiny little pixie women? You can bet some of them were waifuing her.

>Have him steal Stark's base programming for Ultron
Stark had no programming for Ultron.
I don't get how everyone keeps pretending like Tony created Ultron, while really all that happened was that he had some sort of a basic concept for Ultron and then plugged an alien A.I. into his servers, not realizing that A.I. could casually self-activate.

The only thing that makes Ultron Tony's in movie, is that Ultron was born in Tony's server downloading his data first before infecting the entire internet.

So he's Raimi Peter Parker if he was also Scientist Supreme?

The basic concept being the Ultron program, right? I forget, but was it supposed to be an AI like Jarvis? Or was it less than an AI and the Mind Gem was supposed to provide the "intelligence" to be infused with the Ultron program's directives?

It basically went like this the way it's established in the scene
>Tony calls in Banner
>They talk about how A.I. may be within reach, and it's exactly what they would need to make Ultron a reality
>Tony shows Banner the brain map of the A.I. he found inside the sceptre that after loading onto the servers from the Mind Stone

Later in the film, Tony even mentions that they didn't even have an interface to that A.I. so while it's not 100% clear exactly how far along they were with Ultron, it is clear that the intelligence, the actual software was not Stark's creation. Ultron just used whatever resources Stark prepared to be used in his vision of Ultron

Best part of Old Man Logan was nice Ultron.

I don't have a list, but Avengers Forever is solid. There are two Hank Pym's on the team, one more stable, one convinced he murdered Hank Pym.
Plus, there is a storytime of it right now:

Tony and Banner had literally mapped out the idea for Ultron before even using the Mind Stone. They just happened to use the Mind Stone's neural network as the model for the A.I. Ultron was, for all intents and purposes, a Stark creation. His mental processing was simply modeled after the neurons derived from the Mind Stone.

I think he has gotten a bit better in the new run

That's more or less what happened to him in Spider-Gwen.

...

>I believe this is yours, Captain America
Ant-Man was great in CW

I remember reading but what was the context behind it again? As in, which Ultron was this?

>Ant-Man kills the marvel universe

>Ant-Man accidentally kills those two groups
>Realizes what he's done
>Goes into a mental breakdown and figures the world must be fiction
>Hatches the master plan, that if the world is fiction, then there is an author. If Ant-Man killed the Avengers and Fantastic 4 on accident, the author should have restarted from an earlier point in the story, but the author clearly hasn't, probably because there are many other characters to write about
>The only way to restore the world to a previous state, is to kill everyone so that the writer has no one to write a story about, and has to scrap the events of the recent past

This reverse thing could work.

>I don't get how everyone keeps pretending like Tony created Ultron
>They just happened to use the Mind Stone's neural network as the model for the A.I.
To this day I have absolutely no idea why they didn't go with the brain scan idea that Pym actually used in the comics.
They should have had Stark fill in all the blanks with a copy of his own brain patterns. And that would naturally explain why Ultron ended up being so much like Stark. Just like it explained why Ultron ended up so much like Pym in the movies.

It is completely beyond me why they did something else.
In the movie all you basically had was Ultron ask who created him. To which he gets the answer that it was Tony Stark. After which he essentially makes a google search of Tony Stark, and that essentially makes Ultron like Tony Stark somehow? To his own dismay?

It makes no sense whatsoever. Did he imprint on Tony Stark like a baby chicken while on google and thus absorbing all of his bad habits or what? And if so how would that even make sense?

They completely and fully botched the creation of Ultron in the MCU. In spite of the base idea being so very simple.

I heard something about using Tony's brain patterns for the AI was in a deleted scene, but I might have imagined it.

After warning her to leave him the hell alone. Keep in mind that during that time he was so insane that he legitimately thought he was some other dude that had murdered Hank Pym and Janet used that an an opportunity to trick him into marriage. Very rarely does anyone bring something upon themselves to that degree.