Capitalism vs Socialism: The Walmart Example

Here’s one way to put Walmart’s 3.12% profit margin in perspective. Over a typical 31-day period like the month of July for example, Walmart generates about $40.5 billion in sales revenue (roughly $1.3 billion per day). To generate that amount of sales, it costs Walmart about $39.3 billion every 31 days to pay for all of its expenses: merchandise to stock its stores, shipping expenses, the cost of labor including fringe benefits, utilities, corporate income taxes, property taxes, payroll taxes, interest expenses, advertising, etc After incurring all of those costs to provide the merchandise for consumers over a 31-day period, there’s about $1.26 billion left over for profits, which is also 3.12% of the $40.5 billion in sales revenue

Or look at it this way for the first 30 days of every 31-day month, 100% of the sales revenue collected during that 30-day period (about $39 billion) go entirely towards paying Walmart’s monthly operating expenses. Only on the **last day** of every 31 day period do any of the sales revenue generated by Walmart go to its profits. Finally, on the 31st and final day of a month, the retailer’s daily sales of $1.3 billion become the company’s monthly profits (3.12% of sales for the month). So greedy, evil Walmart typically gets a single “profit day” every 31 days – if it’s lucky and nothing goes wrong.

Even if Wal-Mart was taken over by its 2.2 million employees and they "seized the means of production" they would only have $15 billion in annual profits to split up. They would supposedly have slightly under $7000 extra for themselves which would likely not happen because Wal-Mart would not be running under the same efficiencies as it is right now

Wal-Mart is the world's largest company/retailer by revenue. It provides cheap services and goods to the middle and poorest classes from the US and the globe. Under a regime of less free trade, higher minimum wages, higher taxes, this would all fall apart leading to high prices

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I personally believe that we should stay in a capitalist economy and do modest wage hikes, provide certifications, free community college, etc. AND NOT go to full socialism where the means of production are seized or nationalized.

PROVE ME WRONG Sup Forums (pro-tip: you can't)

KEK.

>my deodorant costing 25 cents more so that employees can get a raise is the end of the world

>bu-bu-but that 7,000 + (whatever they make now) is still better than just having (whatever they make now)!
>just imagine how much we ALL would make if ALL workers seized the means of production! xD XD

Stop expecting liberals to be able to comprehend basic math.

No, I suggested regulations, wage hikes, etc. I am just here to kill marxist and true socialists who want nationalized industries and to "seize the means of production".

sure marxist/socialists/unions are horrific but theres a happy compromise somewhere in the middle where employers should value employees instead of treating them like cattle

pay minimum wage and expect your employees to cost you a lot of money/inefficiency

walmart would be more profitable if its employees were actually incentivized enough to give a fuck about their jobs/want to prevent loss/afraid of losing their jobs

theres a ton of research/studies done comparing costco to walmart and how costco is more profitable while paying employees higher wages

>capitalist...free community college
>free
>NOT go to full socialism
>socialism

Of course, the small portion of Wal-Mart employees that actually do skilled work would just leave to work for competitors who would need more skilled employees to replace the Wal-Mart now run by a bunch of monkeys

3% profit? wtf?!!?

I thought businesses made at least 40%

what is the fucking point for 3%?

>40% profit margin

lol

>3.12 % profit margin

Aldi is working with sub 1 % profit margin - step up murrifat!

>$1.3B
>whats the point

a lot of products may have a 40% profit margin in them. like you buy for 6 bucks and sell for 10. but that's not 4 dollars of profit because there's other expenditures like wages, taxes, rent, etc

>40% profit margin
Unless you struck gold or oil that is very unlikely. Apple is the world's highest valued company and is anally raping sheep customers every year and only ending up with around 24%.

>cost of deodorant goes up so min wage faggots have more money
>cost of everything else goes up for the same fucking reason
>hey look nothing fucking changed

go learn economics

>work a job that can already be outsourced to machines
>get upset when you're not paid enough

they put in 30 hours of work for every hour of profit? bad

unless they have a bad month, and it's gone

anyone got a list of companies by profit margin? maybe the fortune 500

>40% profit
It is because of people like you that we should make economics a required course in high school.

I'm almost tempted to fucking graph this just to show you how fucking retarded you sound right now.

Publix is owned by its own workers only workers can buy stocks in the company its currently in 10 states just started in Virginia and one of the best grocery stores in the US.

Now i think communism as a whole is bullshit as it just makes lazy people. But publix is like national socialism make the workers happy and they make the company better in turn. This increases workers stocks in the company and gives them something to strive for. Hell i just got a quartly bonus from my stocks in the tune of a cool 257 bucks and i dont even buy stocks these are just given to me for working.

All walmart does is leech off the welfare system and the american taxpayers money. While putting other companies out of business because it undersells cheap merchandise from china. Without walmart and target and tarrifs on china we could charge slightly more for goods and pay workers a wage where they would not have to relies on welfare and american tax dollars instead of being a drain they would be able to contribute to the tax system.

The hard truth in retail and other competitive businesses is that you are lucky if you do any profit.

>its impossible for the rich to be less rich
>increasing taxes on the rich is impossible even though we have extremely low tax rates on the highest earners

Aldi, at least here in germany, has really stepped up their game in recent years.

Their selection is very decent and you basically can't beat the prices.

"Netto" is the new shit-tier supermarket here.

That's the problem with capitalism, big business move small business out of the market simply by being so big that a profit as small as 3% is still enough, i'm not advicating for socialism but this should be adressed

People wanting "small businesses" is a meme or they would've bought there in the first place.

If there is a demand for it it will be met. See: resurgance of stuff like farmer's markets.

>0 (zero) citations

Cool.

>inb4 google it

You're the one who came here to talk about it.

true

a lot of the regulations are pushed for by the big businesses to keep out the smaller guys

I would prefer to buy local

it's not a meme just because you can't deny the fact that people will always choose the lowest price for necessities. most small businesses these days are internet run b2b companies. most retail small businesses are just hipster-tier trash.

companies like walmart demolish any chance of small businesses like general stores opening up. they literally take a hit to profit just to destroy any competition in an area.

That's because in the long run for a perfectly competitive market, profits should eventually reach zero.

In an oligopoly, profits are unlikely to be high unless cartels are allowed to exist.

There is no economic system in which firms generate massive profit without violently fucking over consumers.

Employers value employees it just happens tbe that non skilled employees aren't worth much.
Walmart will have to increase its wages if the government reduce the welfare they depend on.
They use different sales strategies.

the problem we have now is corporations are married to the government for special favors. that has nothing to do with the competitive free-market.

You have all the time you need to justify anybody taking home more than $100m/year

Go ahead I'll wait. To help you out, here's the definition of "justify:" show or prove to be right or reasonable.

and by hit to profit i mean literally negative profit -- they will run in the red as long as it causes you to close your doors.

>most small businesses these days are internet run b2b companies. most retail small businesses are just hipster-tier trash.

I don't really see the problem. Small businesses have found their niche on th internet and stopped relying on being in a good physical spot.

/thread

>>hey look nothing fucking changed
Everyone gets to be in a higher tax bracket because they are not indexed for inflation

>That comic

Kek, he just reduced labor output by 50 % and with it his sales by 50 %.

>unless they have a bad month, and it's gone
That's 3% of pure profit, for any retailer that is pretty fucking good, especially when you're operating on the scale of Wal-Mart.

Shh, Germany, you will upset the liberals.
Eliminate welfare then. You are seeing this problem upside down. Tariffs wouldn't help, society gets what society wants and society wants shitty cheap products or needs them because they are fucking poor.

>they literally take a hit to profit just to destroy any competition
That's how price cutting in an oligopoly works. It is by no means a great economic system, but there is absolutely no way to get the better perfectly competitive market without drastic re-hauls of the fucking foundation and structure of the current economic system.

And even if we did get the perfectly competitive market, there is no guarantee it would stay that way without ridiculous levels of regulation.

>this should be adressed
Absolutely, why aren't people being pushed to create higher value endeavors than monotonous, low profit transactions?

>people are lazy and don't want to improve their lives
>people are too scared that they will fail
>the burdens to entry are too high

>lets penalize hardworking people for being successful

change it to Crony Capitalism and sure I'll let you have it

even "non skilled employees" will perform better if incentivized

minimum wage in my state is $7.25/hr. sheetz starting pay is $9.50/hr.

you fuck up at sheetz they fire you and find someone better. then mcdonalds/walmart ends up with all the fuck ups that are going to show up late to work/steal shit/fuck up because they dont give a fuck.

i don't know why everyone here supports laughably low minimum wages ($7.25/hr). you are just supporting corporate welfare. stop giving my tax dollars to walmart/mcdonalds and make those fuckers pay their employees living wages.

working 40 hours a week and being on government benefits to survive is a fucking joke of a system.

More like everything goes up in price at Wal-Mart, with the increase in costs, the increase in wages will more than likely barely compensate for that cost and nothing will change.

Minimum wages could be $1 per hour if that $1 could buy you anything. Nominal wages are irrelevant, what matters is real wages which can't be directly changed through government intervention.

3% is good? I though you could buy bonds at 6%(haven't checked that for a while though)

>live in a country that allows you to make millions and live like a king
>feel like you deserve to pay little/no taxes

Why should the waltons get $1.3b a month for sitting on their ass?

Communism isn't about increasing worker wages its about eliminating capitalist parasites. It's about structuring society so it can enrich itself instead of enriching the ownership class.

Buy local then, get a lot of people to buy local and local companies shall flourish.
That is one of the reasons your medical care/medicines are so expensive bt-w.

>working 40 hours a week and being on government benefits to survive is a fucking joke of a system.
we should impost millions and tens of millions of peasants to drive down wages, then complain that wages are too low

>feel like you deserve to pay little/no taxes
what right do others have to make me work for them?

>Buy local then, get a lot of people to buy local and local companies shall flourish.
by golly, I shall!

you cucks spout the "no minimum wage" bullshit but don't realize the labor market is gonna be flooded with paco, pajeet and chang working for pennies on the dollar

the middle class is dieing while middle class voters are screaming "give more power/subsidize the the rich"

They deserve it for being born rich of course you fucking communist.

Ahh yes, the "arbitrary limit" argument.

Why do they need more than 90 million? Why 100? Why not 80? How about 40? Honestly i cant see anyone need more than 750k a year. Maybe even 200k. We should limit everyones pay to 25k.

same guy here

i fully support deportation and recognize that immigrant/foreign/illegal labor is devaluing the worker

and lol @ the anarchist bullshit "why should i have to pay taxes"

I forget the exact split but the Jenkins family owns a portion and employees own the rest. I've worked for both in supervisory positions and Publix is the better of the two by far. Better benefits, too.

>Not understanding an oversimplification for a joke.
>Believing that companies will not fire the less able employees and, as unemployment goes rampant, the remaining employees will not become more productive instead of risking to be fired.
>Austrian.
Well, this is sad.

i dont care what you make faggot. just pay your taxes and stop bitching/legislating loopholes/having the government subsidize your billion dollar empire while you pay your employees 7 bucks an hour

Google it.

40% wtf? You must be young.

I don't think you understand how shit works in the world, let me enlight you.
A company to start needs MONEY.
Where do we get money? Let's put actions on the market, people will buy our actions, risking their savings, and we will have enough money to start working.
This is where it gets tricky: a company doesn't have a 100% succes ratio. Sometimes you just loose everything, sometimes you manage to invest in a lucky shot.
If wallmart makes 1.5 Billion shekels every month, those shekels goes:
40% taxes
let's say, 30% future invetments
30% to be split among all of the action owners: if we have 1 million actions, and you have 100 actions, you get around 450 dollars.

>work ass off to get through school while dindus fuck around
>work 60+ hour weeks at demanding jobs while dindus stock shelves stoned off their ass
>save money and make smart investments while dindus spend recklessly
>hurr durr white privileged u didnt work for your money it wuz amerika now give it all to the dindus cuz they wuz slaves and sheit

You need capital to buy bonds, and if you don't have a lot of capital that 6% isn't going to be worth much.

>Let's have taxes that disproportionately affect the poor.
>Le'ts not make the people that enjoy public goods (e.g. security) more pay more.
>Republican logic.
Well, lad. This is why you are not any better than democrats.

All you have done with your post, is prove, based on your data, that walmart is unsustainable. One walmart store in upstate NY killed every single small business that walmart caters products to within a 20 mile radius. Each of those small businesses made up their respective small communities populations. Now those towns are falling apart. Everywhere inside the walmart "killzone" is despair as communities languish in poverty. The worst part is, that same sad story is true all over the upstate NY region. Massive unemployment and poverty replaced what was once a small business driven region.

And all so Walmart can "thrive" at one Profitable business day per month operating round the clock 7 days a week.

Something went wrong and the system is unable to cope with the strain.

Pic and link unrelated
youtube.com/watch?v=QBbygbHu-2k

Why is there arbitrary speed limits? Why is it 100 mph and not 120? 150? Or why do you arbitrarily become an adult at 18? why not 17 or 16?
Societies and laws are full of arbitrary limits and they are not "bad" or "good", they are just tools like any other limit.
Basically not an argument.

a product of the two party system. all black and white, no gray.

if you can make the same thing a month sitting at your house collecting welfare why would you work?

if you can make more in an hour selling weed than you could make in 40 hours working why wouldn't you sell weed?

you are actively incentivizing people to be "fuck ups" and then you wonder why they follow that path

You're likely a part of the top 1% of the world. You likely get interest for keeping your money in the bank. Why do you get all of this? fkn commie move to africa.

Their incentive should be not being unemployed, but fucking welfare state. There is tons of non skilled employees and they have no right nor they deserve better payment without them improving their productivity. Basic supply and demand. I want your welfare eliminated.

You picked probably the worst example possible. Wal-mart has already given it's employees the means of production, they operate under an open book policy and any employee can see exactly how much they contribute/cost the company, they know if they are deserving of a raise or not.

What makes any portion of their money that doesn't cover their use of government and state utilities yours?

Why are they not allowed to enjoy the money that earlier generations of their family put time into obtaining? Are you going to tell me that children shouldn't be allowed to inherit their family's business and wealth because they can't work up to your bullshit standards?

You don't get to take that money because you get salty over your position in life. That's what is called theft.

I love Aldi

How is a limit on wealth even going to be effectively enforced? The only result I expect is that the well connected will use different means to conceal and shitft wealth around while everyone else is fucked.

>what right do others have to make me work for them?
What right to you have to enjoy public goods then?

Do it then, find your niche.

>mexican flag

our employees would be paid living wages if jose wasn't willing to work for $5/hr

>what right do others have to make me work for them?
What right do you have not to get robbed at night?
What right do you have to have access to educated employees?
What right do you have to use basic infrastructure like roads, electricity, schools, etc?
Your taxes pay for your right to live in a civilized society.

You don't have to incur costs in order to provide value to your customers. Your post is retarded.

Wait till you hear about Amazon's profit margins....yikes

It's a dog eat dog world. This is why we need certifications and degrees in high school or free community college. You can't expect to be a fucking blockbuster employee and be mad when your entire field is killed by technology.

>Actions
I keked. It's called "stock", Luigi.

its not a free market anymore.

no one person is going to have tens of billions in capital to start a competitor to walmart even if they could provide better services/prices/quality etc.

>"why should i have to pay taxes"
is there any limit to what % they can take, without it still being "fair"?

for a butterfly I am old, for a mountain young

keep eyes on heaven young gwasshoppity

only new york can buy bonds?

enjoy them? you mean "be forced to pay for them, even if you don't want to"

why should I pay for some single mother and kids half way accross the country? I don't mind paying into my own community

>Your taxes pay for your right to live in a civilized society.
is there any amount that you would feel too high?

>working for pennies on the dollar
Implying you can survive with that amount of money without welfare. Eliminate welfare gradually and everything shall be better for you.

it's an undertable mistake for a non native english speaker Texas.

red tape and bureaucracy, taxation and predatory legislation funded by the "big guys" keep the little guys down. Not the mere fact that big guys exist. All you do is position yourself against the big guys in your marketing.

Like "we're number two in the country, so we try harder".

Or "we're not Comcast."

Simply being a big business doesn't mean that you're harming anything. In fact, big businesses provide liquidity if you want to sell your biz eventually, like Dollar Shave Club just did.

If socialists want to "seize the means of production" and take control or ownership of the business.... Just fucking buy stocks.

>You don't have to incur costs in order to provide value
Everything has a cost you stupid fuck. You can only earn so much profit above that cost before you negatively impact customers in a way that either tanks your business, or make the lives of consumers a living hell.

They're not raping their customers though. They're wooing customers that like a hard dicking and go where they can get it.

You know you can force your government to expend more on your community, right?
Also, are you implying you never leave your community? Are you implying that your community is completely isolated from the rest of your country?
And yes, single mothers shouldn't be supported. The welfare state should be eliminated.

the last house i lived in during college the previous tenants were 25 mexicans in a 4 bedroom house working for a construction company

its pretty easy to live on less than minimum wage (tax free) when you are splitting the bills 25 ways, working seasonally and then taking all that money back across the border

why would they ever hire a tax paying american expecting higher than minimum wage.

if you eliminate welfare you will just have a bunch of rednecks and niggers stealing shit/selling drugs/shooting cops like your wonderful country.

>You know you can force your government to expend more on your community, right?
not without taxing more, or borrowing that must be paid for by future taxes

I'm not sure what you are trying to say?

if I want more spent on my community, why don't I just contribute to local charities? what is the government needed for in this case?

They get that because they own assets because they created assets. You can too.

>Hurr why don't rich people give everyone their money so we can all be rich durr

Move to Africa you fucking parasite.

Why should there be a cap? The burden of proof is on you, actually.

That's the unfortunate reality of oligopolies. No one can hope to obtain a significant market share when their competition is several Goliath sized firms all working towards maintaining the oligopoly.

It's probably a fkn nigger.

>is there any amount that you would feel too high?
It depends on what services I get.
If I was an american and had to pay for private health, education, etc. I probably wouldn't want to pay more than 15-25% if I were making lets say 60k USD.
But in Canada I get healthcare, cheap post secondary education and very low crime (because of welfare you could argue) for which higher taxes at around 50% at 60k USD are justifiable.
But if you want an arbitrary number I'd say around 70% taxes would be too high. Unless of course the government pays for your food, education, transport, housing, etc. and the 30% you get are just for discretionary spending but that probably wouldn't be ideal.

So many people with no clue about socialism, wage labour, profit and the origins of capitalism in here.

>if you eliminate welfare you will just have a bunch of rednecks and niggers stealing shit/selling drugs/shooting cops like your wonderful country.
>Implying there is no welfare here.
>Implying corruption and lack of security aren't the main problems.
>Not understanding economics.
Wew, lad.

>its pretty easy to live on less than minimum wage (tax free) when you are splitting the bills 25 ways, working seasonally and then taking all that money back across the border
>its pretty easy to live on less than minimum wage (tax free) when you are splitting the bills 25 ways
>its pretty easy to live on less than minimum wage (tax free)
>Most illegals working seasonally.
>Implying they don't pay to "coyotes" thousands of dollars to cross the border
>Implying crossing isn't dangerous.
You should punish companies that help their employees avoid taxes, also, top kek about what you said. Tell the poor to do that if it is as easy as you say.

> End Welfare
Absolutely. Start with walmarts welfare and their employees. When the employees are no longer subsidized by the state, no one will bother working there. Why work 40+ hours per week when that won't be enough to feed your family or pay your bills?

> amazon does it too so it's okay
That was not a strong argument for capitalism.

> It's a dog eat dog world. This is why we need certifications and degrees in high school or free community college. You can't expect to be a fucking blockbuster employee and be mad when your entire field is killed by technology.
Allow me to bring up an old truth, "The world needs ditch diggers too". This also applies to shelf stockers at walmart. If the job "must" be done, than it must be paid a living wage to do it. If a living wage can't be justified than the job cannot be justified. If the job is unsustainable than the business is unsustainable and must be shut down. I'm from upstate new york and have experienced the absolute poverty there. I had to leave my beloved home because there is no need for carpenters where no one can afford to build new homes. It's become a wasteland where only the Walmarts are still standing and people will drive 20+ miles to spend their EBT/food stamps, often because they have no other choice.

link unrelated
youtube.com/watch?v=ZaPtHyOb_Fc

Wal Mart likely provides better service and selection at a lower price than all those other mom and pop stores. If it didn't it would go out of business because nobody would shop there.

Wal Mart raised the wages of all their employees to $10/hour almost 2 years ago. They offer acceptable healthcare plans, a matching 401k, a stock option, tuition assistance, and an acceptable level of vacation compared to other entry level positions. It's not the best company but it's certainly not even close to the worst.

Because a bunch of people like you and me decide that it's fair to give certain people $100m/year because we think what they do is worth that. If you dislike that Mark Cuckerberg and the Waltons have lots of money, stop giving it to them.

Just stop buying from Walmart and stop useing Facebook.

Problem solved.

Just because you don't want to give them money doesn't mean you have the right to make other people stop.

If nobody buys Coca Cola, whoever owns coke goes down the tubes.

If people decide that the stocks and bonds and securities people are trading aren't worth as much anymore, their value goes down.

People only make lots of money because everyone agrees that they should and so they pay them, or buy their assets at high prices.

Just because a bunch of people haven't decided to give you money in exchange for something of value that you've created or that you own, doesn't mean they won't eventually, and it doesn't mean that other people that provide or own value shouldn't be payed for it by people that want to pay them.

But what bout February?

>not without taxing more, or borrowing that must be paid for by future taxes
Well, it is nice to know that you can distribute money in only one way. So sad to know that all expending percentages are permanent.

>I'm not sure what you are trying to say?
Indeed.

>why don't I just contribute to local charities?
You can do that too.

>what is the government needed for in this case?
Ah, le anarchist meme.

That's what the government is for, to make sure the free market stays free.

Let's say I create a digital course that teaches people how to train their parrots to talk. I sell it for $200, people happily pay that, and I get good reviews.

It only costs me a couple bucks to host it. Does that negatively impact customers in a way that tanks my business or makes the lives of my consumers a living hell?

Say that my friend Brad Pitt gave me his umbilical cord as a weird-ass birthday present. I decide to sell it. I get 6 million dollars from some creep in China. It cost me nothing, but he's happy, since he decided that it was worth what he paid.

If I write a book about birdwatching, and sell it for $18, but it only costs $1 to print, what cost am I incurring? Who am I hurting?

People pay however much money they think something is worth. Not how much they think something costs.

Never mind services, lol.

It's pretty simple if you just think about it for a sec.