Can someone explain why Balkanisation happened?
Also, do you think it's an inevitable phenomenon for the future? E.g. we see Scotland and Catalonia wanting independence - do you reckon this is the same thing? Will all big countries break up into smaller microstates along ethnic lines in the future?
Turks were bretty gud at divide and conquer famalam
>Will all big countries break up into smaller microstates along ethnic lines in the future?
I really fucking hope so. I don't know how soon this will start happening, though.
I don't see our megagovernments of the world as sustainable, and I know they will crumble, but there's no saying when or how.
It will be slow to start, but once smaller areas begin seceding and breaking off from larger countries, I think other places will begin following suit.
Not even these Balkan countries have ethnic lines.
Because on balkans, every nation hates every other nation, no exceptions.
Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois nation time? Gotta nuke Chicongo and Gary first, though.
They had a problem going back to the multiple empires that drew lines across the region. Communism claimed to have an answer to it but it turned out to be an elaborate balancing act that rather than making everyone "equal" really just made everyone pissed off.
They're kind of back at the beginning. It feels somehow impossible for war to start in the same places but you never know.
It wasn't natural, but forced. Commonwealth was growing stronger and stronger until its neighbours went apeshit and partitioned it.
Why do you wish for it? I guess you could argue that America is dividing, fleeing from the political centre towards two extremes - and this is happening across Europe too. Is that why you wish for it?
Why do they hate each other? Were they relatively peaceful when they were under Austro-Hungarian rule or was it just as bad then?
Forced by whom? I thought it was the people who wanted it, after the fall of communism?
Serbia was never under filthy inbred Habsburg scum. We also had the first major allied victory against AH in WW1 and successfully held them off until Bulgaria backstabbed us.
because large countries united several hundred years ago
they will never allow small countries to unite too and get bigger because they get a possible opponent instead of slave banana countries
it's a rule of first
same with other stuff
yeah i had slaves but that sucks no more slaves for anyone
yeah i conquered countries but that sucks guys no more conquering
yeah i fucked up atmosphere during industrial era, but that sucks guys no more pollution
das it mayne
death and decay.
Also this desu
subhuman slavs gonna subhuman slav
Long story short, greedy zionists
entire balkans was united against turks except for moslems but even they wanted autonomy so this is pretty bad comparisson
also in balkans ww1, ww2 and 90s wars have nothing to do with turks
Yugoslavia was a fake country, different nationalities can't live together.
Short history:
After ww1 Slo and Cro fell out of Austro-Hungary and tried to create a new state called SHS, they had zero international support and legitimacy so they joined with Serbia that was on the winning side of ww1 to form kingdom Yugoslavia. Bosnia and macedonia were dragged along. What was pan slavic joy at first quickly degenerated when different nationalities wanted more power for themselves. Parliament was quickly desolved when croat peasant party went for more power, even independence. Communists were banned because they were commuinists, and soon started when nazi croat ustaše came along and king alexander was assassinated. Country was then under control with strict martial code up till the start of ww2. Regent prince Paul sided with axis early on, but was quickly deposed in a coup and replaced with Peter II. They annulled agreement and Hitler went apeshit (literary in person) when he learned that and declared war. Yugoslavia is quicky occupied and partitioned. Serbs under puppet regime. Croats get own ustaše puppet state. Slovenia partitioned among agressors, bosnia among puppets. Government and Peter II ditch the state, and underground resistance is organised in serbia with četniks. Commies stay dormant until the Russia gets attacked as well, then they start their own resistance under Tito. They are good at staying alive and recrouting, because they are pan yugoslavian, while četniks are serb nationalistic. At first both tried to work together, but soon that falls appart and četniks start collaborating with germans. eventually western powers realise this and ditch četniks and fall behind commies. as soon as ruskies start to help the country is quickly liberated. after that commies and tito get total control, some killings are done, but generally people are content with the situation. tito breaks with soviet union, so the country stays out of the block.
>Former Austria-Hungary vs. former Ottoman literacy rates.
Turks fucked us over desu...
>Can someone explain why Balkanisation happened?
Because they shot muh archduke!
One can't disentangle this process with what was going on on the World at the moment.
On the one hand USSR had fallen, and technically NATO didn't have more reason (on paper) to exist than the Warsaw Pact. They came up with a shit policy that basically allowed them to attack anywhere in the world with humanitarian reasons. They used all the internal nationalist tension to prove to the population that they still had a role to play.
On the other hand, let's not forget that Yugoslavia was some kind of power. I'm not saying they were super powerful or rich, but it was a player. With USSR desintegrating the Capitalist powers didn't want to have some kind of big nation nearer to their borders which could serve Russian interests during the transition in the 90s.
I mean guys, come on, do you honestly believe that any stupid small nationalist tension just becomes the biggest war in the world for some years for no reason? Nationalist tensions have always been used by mayor powers to have proxy wars.
Independently of how fucked up or not was Yugoslavia, there were important reasons to go to war there and divide it in smaller, absolutely irrelevant nations. They wanna do the same thing in Syria now (you can find articles where american Generals literally ask for a Balkanziation solution in Syria).
The global, nowadays tendency, is hard to say. I'm Spanish and the reason the Catalan independentist movement is so strong nowadays is basically due to the huge crisis going on in Spain for many years now (not only economical, but in general a proper crisis of system).
Globalization in general has fucked up many things. Capitalism tried to go global and the process is showing many places where it's breaking, and it's no wonder that some places see an exit in nationalism.
Serbia should retake Montenegro and split Bosnia with Croatia
As long as Tito lives everyone is fairly happy with everyone else, mainly based on him being a nationless commie by ideology. He was born in croatia to slovene croat parents, spent a lot of time in slovenia as a kid and in his underground commie assignment in serbia, so he was quite impartial toward any of the nations. He was total dictator, but with strong secret service he kept things civil. As soon as he dies in 80s, bittering start anew, everyone starts pulling to his own way. At first national parliaments are given more power to quell dissent, and with the rise of nationalist miloševič that favours serbia in party leadership, this gives them the power to separate.
What this fellow Serbian said, pretty much.
>different nationalities can't live together.
Poles, Jews, Lithuanians, belarussians, ukrainians, moldavians, aramenians, tatars. 600 years.
Okay so was Balkinsation basically a reaction to Serbian attempts to annex the rest and create Greater Serbia, in the wake of the power vacuum left after Austro-Hungary and subsequently communism?
>they will never allow small countries to unite too and get bigger because they get a possible opponent instead of slave banana countries
Okay, but I thought Balkanisation was what the people wanted? I thought it was basically the small ethnic areas rising up and saying "we want our own country, we don't want to be ruled by the Serbs as part of Greater Serbia"?
Which is why I drew parallels to Scotland and Catalonia, countries with grassroots independence movements. Am I mistaken?
Yugoslavia was made up of
1) Catholic Croatians
2) Muslim Bosnians / Muslim Albanians (Kosovo and Montenegro) / Muslims from Montenegro
3) Orthodox Serbs
You can't really co-exist since all of the people hated each other.
Communism also has the inherent flaw of inefficiency and made every country in Yugoslavia poor as hell.
Okay I think I get that sort of. Yeah I was just reading about Milosevic and how he turned the Yugoslav army into basically a Serbian army
you were always filthy desu
shut your mouth bitch
you got BTFO because you did not honor our agreement about macedonia
go suck shiptar dick and fuck off grigor
After the Gold War IMF swoops in, fucks up the economy, eradicates the middle class. People return to reliable Systems, which are their families and religious ties. Bam, balcanization.
>muh TRI MORETA
Don't make us fuck you like we did in the balkan wars. Backstabbing cunts.
try it
That was before nationalism carved the map. In late 18th century everyone in Europe is already completely nationalised. Ethnic borders are set and tension begins to spread wherever different ethnics live together.
>muh 0 moreta
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