why the fuck did this cause so much controversy?
you can name thousands examples of 'black' evil guys in pop culture, even in american media
so why the fuck was this a no-no?
'black' is associated with 'darkness', it's not always niggers for fuck's sake
Other urls found in this thread:
dardel.info
youtu.be
blackkat.net
twitter.com
Maybe if they gave him fat red lips I would see a reason.And bust out laughing
people are still butthurt about this
That's a bit different, it portrayed literal black people as retards, not fantasy creatures that happened to have dark skin.
Even Hergé didn't feel good about it, as it was one of his early books for which he barely did any research.
this
its one of the few such outrages that auctualy has some sense to it
i would like to read where herge dident like it either?
>why the fuck did this cause so much controversy?
Because Conan was too hard for soccer moms to read
which I suppose is better. They would have had a field day with howard.
>why the fuck did this cause so much controversy?
Because it foresaw the downfall of europa
isn't this a zombie apocalypse story?
I can't really find shit right now, but I remember when Zhang Chongren died there was a lot of fuss made about how he's the one who inspired Hergé to do proper research for his work (starting with the Blue Lotus) and how Hergé was a bit ashamed of his earlier work, more for reasons of inaccuracy than cultural insensitvity though.
You do realize the author of this was an assistant projectionist for a theater in Belgium under Nazi rule, right? It's wouldn't exactly be surprising if some propaganda accidentally rubbed off on his work.
>literally anyone who lived under nazi rule was a racist
That's... racist.
Yeah
Except instead of being turned into a zombie
You become Black
Sheeeeeeeeiiiiit
It's not like the zombies were speaking pidgin smurf, they just said "GNAP!" a lot iirc.
last I checked the average nignog could say more than 'gnap!'
>more for reasons of inaccuracy than cultural insensitvity though.
thats an admirable stance
Racism isn't always a conscious thing. Propaganda seeps into thoughts, affecting you in ways you don't always realize, subtly coloring your actions. Commercials often work the same way. The kid worked as a projectionist for several years. How many Nazi propaganda films do you think he came into contact with? And then later, after the war, he makes a comic where the bad guy is a big-nosed wizard who wants to exploit the good peace-loving beings to get gold.
well its not that far fetched when his entire job was mostly looking at propaganda
Maybe this is enough of an explanation actually
>Hergé's early albums of The Adventures of Tintin were highly dependent on stereotypes for comedic effect. These included evil Russian Bolsheviks, lazy and dumb black Africans, and an America of gangsters, cowboys, and Indians.
>At the close of the newspaper run of Cigars of the Pharaoh, Hergé had mentioned that Tintin's next adventure (The Blue Lotus) would bring him to China. Father Gosset, the chaplain to the Chinese students at the University of Leuven, wrote to Hergé urging him to be sensitive about what he wrote about China. Hergé agreed, and in the spring of 1934 Gosset introduced him to Zhang Chongren. The two young artists quickly became close friends, and Zhang introduced Hergé to Chinese history, culture, and the techniques of Chinese art. As a result of this experience Hergé would strive, in The Blue Lotus and subsequent Tintin adventures, to be meticulously accurate in depicting the places Tintin visited.
>For example, while Cigars of the Pharaoh takes place in an idealised India of Maharajas and British officials, The Blue Lotus has the look and feel of China of the 1930s torn apart by the occupying Japanese forces and the Western influence in Shanghai, including corrupt businessmen and police.
>As a token of appreciation, Hergé added the character "Chang Chong-Chen" (Tchang in original French-language version) to The Blue Lotus,[1] a young Chinese orphan boy who meets and befriends Tintin. Hergé mocks his own naïveté deep inside the album when he has Tintin explain to the fictional Chang that his view of the 'white devils' is based on prejudice. He makes it go both ways when Tintin recites a few Western stereotypes of the Chinese. Chang laughs this off as crazy. Chang would later return in Tintin in Tibet.
>As another result of his friendship with Zhang, Hergé became increasingly aware of the problems of colonialism, in particular the Empire of Japan's advances into China, and the corrupt, exploitive International Settlement of Shanghai. The Blue Lotus carries a bold anti-imperialist message, contrary to the prevailing view in the West, which was sympathetic to Japan and the colonial enterprise[citation needed]. As a result, it drew sharp criticism from various parties, including a protest by Japanese diplomats to the Belgian Foreign Ministry.
But the Smurfs are commies, user. Nazis hate commies.
interesting
That's because it's not just racist, it is outrageously racist.
Especially given what the fucking Belgians DID in the Congo.
Why?
WE WUZ PAPAS SMURFS
>why the fuck did this cause so much controversy?
Funny thing, I only began making the Black Smurf - Africans connotation once it was deemed 'offensive'. Before that I had no link to draw between the two nor any incentive to do that.
Ironically, ever since culture of the offended had cranked up the pace I started to become amused by racist jokes.
G*d bless Leopold II. :D
Yea, same thing with the Jinx and Mr. Popo thing. Black people don't actually look like that, and the Japs had been making characters in art that look like that since before they even knew niggers were a thing, but the media can't bother to google it 2 seconds before they get their panties in a twist.
'N GNAAAAP
>its one of the few such outrages that auctualy has some sense to it
Except that the artist corrected the mistake and died before people even became angry.
>These included evil Russian Bolsheviks, lazy and dumb black Africans, and an America of gangsters, cowboys, and Indians.
None of this is far from the truth, though. Except that the gangsters are black too, these days.
>Except that the artist corrected the mistake and died before people even became angry.
Bleeding hearts seldom take the passage of time into account.
that is a good point.
white people weren't especially smart there.
Yeah, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. But that's exactly what the permanently offended want. It's their hobby, and in some cases even their profession. Being offended about things is what they DO. All the better when there's more things to be offended about.
*EVROPA
Meanwhile, in Holland...
Wellll... it's more complicated than that.
See
dardel.info
Some corrections were just erasing the black guy and replacing him with another minority.
Worth noting
>De même, ces deux Noirs ont été remplacés par un Chinois et par un Turc respectivement pour faire plaisir aux Américains (déjà...) qui sans doute n'auraient pas autorisé la diffusion de la traduction anglaise. En ces temps de ségrégation, il était en effet malvenu de faire cohabiter Blancs et Noirs, même dans une BD.
On a side note you gotta love the minutia in drawing cars and planes he had.
Have you actually read those Tintin albums or are you just shitposting?
>Sup Forums is a hivemind
I've never seen a smart post from anyone who thinks this.
And yeah, I've read them. Just part of Tintin in Russia, though. But really, anyone who has an issue with the genocidal regime that sends people to freeze to death in Siberia getting sent up in a comic has real issues.
what sort of defense is that? did you read them? tintin himself is super dumb in that book. The only "good guy" is the christian missionary which is hardly more than a plot device.
>outrage
>has sense
>ever
This.
Brah, if you think anything that happens in Tintin in America is close from the truth you're ignorant as fuck.
Tintin is way smarter than the Africans, he teaches them basic maths and the little niggers can't stop calling him smart.
>butthurt American
And now it all makes sense. Brah, if you seriously think ANY Tintin comic comes close to the truth, you are functionally retarded.
One's got a Yeti in it, for fuck's sake. In another one, they go to the moon. What the fuck are you smoking that you think this comic intends to portray reality? Because I want some of that shit.
I'm French, retard.
Hergé did huge amounts of research to show the countries as accurately as he could, asomething he didn't do at the time of America, as you can obviously see by him having 19th century injuns right outside of Chicago and tons of things he obviously picked up from fiction more than research.
Portraying the countries and people realistically is independant of the sci-fi and fantasy aspects. Which really weren't thought as that far from reality back then, people genuinely thought we would use that kind of rocket to go to the Moon... and we did get to the Moon like only 20 years later.
You ignoring all the research the man did is kind of insulting to his memory tbqh.
>I'm French, retard.
So go wave a white flag. Complaining that Tintin isn't realistic is retarded.
But it is realistic in many aspects (portraying the countries Tintin visits semi-accurately), and those aspects aren't realistic in the first albums.
I'm not complaining about shit.
We're only having this argument because *you* claimed that the early albums' depiction wasn't far for the truth.
Jesus you're useless.
They're comic book stereotypes of real life shit. This isn't a hard thing to understand, froggy. Realistic and non-realistic isn't a binary thing. It's a sliding scale.
Yeah, and the early and later work of Hergé are on completely different places on that scale.
That's true.
Now kiss and make up.
Lighten up, /polco/! :D
It's naive as hell but it's not mean spirited.
I don't blame him for making it. 85 years ago a different time.
>who care ok it only count if you agree with me
fuck off kid
>Tintin is way smarter than the Africans
gazelle gag.
rhino gag.
leopard gag.
he's ignorant and do stupid shit all the time.
>teaching at school is racist
o nevermind, you are just an idiot.
>>teaching at school is racist
That's a cute strawman.
No, it's a strawman to pretend that a white person teaching Africans math is a racist representation. This is something that regularly happens, now more than ever.
I fucking hate guilty white assholes.
Y'all need to get over yourselves. IT WONT MAKE US LIKE YOU MORE.
>That's a cute strawman.
your argument of racism, yes.
>it portrayed literal black people as retards
Africans are literally retarded.
Fortunately it should be a few more months before this starts again...
What will?
That's not rhetorical. I am asking.
So, which flavour are you? Chocolate? Chipotle? Balut?
That's not what a strawman is.
Tintin is smarter than the black men he encounters, who are portrayed as basically retards, that was my only claim. The black characters remark on how smart he is.
Whether it's accurate that whites are more educated than Africans is irrelevant, your claim was that the whites were portrayed as just as stupid.
That's really not what a strawman is. Jesus get an education.
And I didn't call anyone racist btw.
>your claim was that the whites were portrayed as just as stupid.
they were though. Tintin isn't the only white guy. And he does ton of stupid shit. The cultural shock is presented both ways.
I guess we just have different criteria because I didn't see any of the white adults being portrayed as having the mind of a five year old.
...
That wasn't my claim.
But look, my mother has this African friend. His wife runs a shop. People tried to run her out of business by spreading the rumour that she was a witch.
Africa isn't the West with a black coat of paint. People in Africa can be, and often are, very, very stupid. So saying that it's a problem that a comic from the 19-fucking-30's portrays them as stupid strikes me as oversensitive, especially when you cite the classroom example.
Fuck me, white Americans of the day would probably object that they aren't being portrayed stupid enough.
Except Africans had no use for maths or western concept of time, hence their befuddlement with someone being adequately skilled in either.
These claims aren't 'problematic' by themselves - not until someone arrives to a conclusion that such evidence makes Africans non-human. It is the latter drive which is the crux of the problem with racism and colonialism.
*GNAP!*
I live in Germany and I can't remember that this ever caused any controversy except maybe some arcane media studies circles.
Watched this in cartoon form as a kid and I never associated black smurfs with black people.
They might not have learnt hem but everybody has use for math
I understand user, I've been there and yeah, lots of them certainly are supersticious and often uneducated people.
>That wasn't my claim.
Fair enough, your claim was that the whites weren't portrayed as particularly smart, not that they were just as stupid as the blacks. My bad.
>So saying that it's a problem that a comic from the 19-fucking-30's portrays them as stupid
That's not exactly what I said, I originally pointed out the difference between a comic portraying existing people as retards in a somewhat stereotypical way, and another comic portraying zombie smurfs that happened to be black.
It's understandable that the former would elicit more claims of racist portrayals, it seems at least a bit more justified there.
I never said it was a problem, I'm just explaining why it can be seen as racist.
Zwarte Piet is a pretty cool guy
>They might not have learnt hem but everybody has use for math
The environment of Subsaharan Africa generally favored small, mobile communities. Such setup doesn't encourage growth on a scale where abstract thinking would trump the here-and-now. Africans are capable of making up for this deficiency, but it would be nothing short of insane to get worked up over someone not depicting them as star gate builders subdued by white devil.
> the crux of the problem with racism
I'd say that's basic tribalism.
>:D
>2. You will immediately cease and not continue to access the site if you are under the age of 18.
>Especially given what the fucking Belgians DID in the Congo.
Would be hilarious to have a comic about Tintin kindapping kids, chopping off one of their hands and telling the parents that he's going to chop off their other hand if they don't deliver him a few tons of ivory within the next four weeks.
I happened to find entire comic divided into pngs:
blackkat.net
Enjoy!
>pic
Yeah there's a gap in his logic there. First he considers that African languages lack words because they have no need for them, but concludes that some particular words are lacking because they don't have the mental capacities for them, with very little evidence for that, since apparently a phone call with some guy at the Pretoria University was enough to teach that one guy.
Not having trained an ability and being unable to aquire it are different things.
Abstract concepts are very often based on literal and physical things in western languages aswell. For instance a contract isn't literally binding, but the figurative meaning comes from the literal sense.
These type of public service messages also exist in the West, and they're really not new.
Interesting read nonetheless, with some gaps in logic, and in need of better reasearch and input from proper linguists over a dictionnary.
The Germans got the right idea.
I mean I'm not the same guy who made that claim. I was just jumping into the conversation.
Either way, I guess I see what you mean. But the reason that some people are so sensitive to perceived racism, is another kind of racism where they pretend everyone in the world is secretly Western under a thin coat of paint.
>this guy
XDDD
big, ugly noses have been a staple of villains for a long time, and has more to do with pointy features being interpreted as hostile than it does with jews.
pete is a combination of saint nicholas's servant, assuming the duties Krampus was meant to carry out. The reformed church didnt like the idea of people dressing up pretending to be demons, so they assigned his duties to Pete instead.
>Ficki, ficki!
I really don't know who put americans in charge of deciding what is racist and how much you have to be angry at it.
>Protestants fucking it up for everybody
I think we got an ongoing theme here.
I wouldnt say leaving Krampus out of an otherwise unique celebration is fucking shit up for everyone though
Yeah I see what you mean, but people are pretty ignorant about people who aren't themselves and ways of thinking that aren't theirs in general.
Wilfuly ignorant generally too, and it's sort of understandable. I mean it's much less of a hastle to pretend that my way of thinking is correct and anybody who disagrees is just being an asshole or an idiot than to actually try to figure out how every Tom, Dick and Harry thinks.
So far all of the evil deeds in this comic were commited by other whites whereas blacks are 'only' depicted as gullible, impressionable and careless.
isnt that the whole White Man's Burden angle though? The other races can't plan or make decisions properly so we should do it for them?
an interesting read but it fucks up on a basic level. For starters the issue isn't that blacks everywhere lack abstract thinking capabilities or mathematical concepts. Hell I'm white and I suck at math but that's my own failure. African cultures tended towards nomadic tribalism, a handful managed to make it to agrarian kingdoms but that was the exception not the rule.
never mind that abstract concepts being based on literal or physical metaphors is common pretty much across the board for various cultures.
real goddamn issue is africans just suck at governing first world nations and the handful who had nice infrastructure got saddled with incompetent assholes for leaders.
That's partially due to the politics and history involved. The Belgians did some REALLY evil shit in the Congo. Like, competitive with the Holocaust and the Great Leap Foward. It's basically like a German dude making a comic depicting the Jews as bumbling criminals and the Nazis as patient caretakers who are only trying to help.
>black kid born and raised in the Congo is hot after walking for a short distance
What the actual fuck? At least give them some credit for being athletic.
Back when this comic was created colonialism was still going. We needed a better part of previous century to pursue different line of thinking and yet you are here, complaining that Herge wasn't capable of making the kind of leap that world at large required decades for.
Yeah I'm pretty sure they aren't portrayed as evil, just extremely simple.
And I'm also pretty sure nobody claimed they were portrayed as evil.
Also I think they were still doing that stuff at the time it was written, so it would be like a German dude writing that comic while the Holocaust was in full swing. Herge may have just meant to write a fun adventure with no malicious intent, but I can definitely see how people could interpret it as pro-atrocity propaganda.
>the Great Leap Foward
Underrated blunder. Seriously how do you fuck up so bad people consider it a genocide.
>Great Leap Foward
Haha, good luck trying to convince commies their ideology ever did anything bad. See: Commies being butthurt over Tintin in Russia.
To Hergé's credit, he did make that leap only a few years later when he learned about colonialism in China. Although he never portrayed Africa proper ever again after Congo.