What are this shows biggest flaws? Like I hear people say that it got bad at one point...

What are this shows biggest flaws? Like I hear people say that it got bad at one point? What do you think was bad about it exactly and what weent wrong? Do you think the finale was satisfying?

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Unlike other people here, I thought the finale was a good ending

Bumpity

promised/hinted at change in the status quo and characters evolving
Nothing happens
Every character besides Dipper and Stan have one dimensional personalities with little to no lasting motivations
Also super rushed after ford is introduced
If you just want an episodic show its fine, but we wanted more
tl;dr: Disney wanted a show for kids, but manchildren watched it

Not enough unintentional Dipper fanservice.

The real flaws were not giving Wendy actual focus, and rushing the rest too much because Hirsch wanted the show to be over already.

Also Robbie got the least development despite being on the Cipher Wheel. It makes me want to see Alex's real vision if he went through with the show 100%.

People were expecting way too much because of the long hiatus'

Mabel treated unfairly good. Wendy not having actual focus. Somehow humour got worse. Mystery was underwhelming but it was to be expected.

>tfw I expected more because of this and how many times Alex was out partying
>turns out they were actually cutting it super close and were probably way behind schedule

I don't think reasonable characterization was too much to expect.

>What are this shows biggest flaws?
Mabel.

>what went wrong

Like so often on Sup Forums, everyone wanted it to be A+ but it turned out to only be an A-, so Sup Forums shit their pants in rage and called it an F.

>A-
You are way too charitable.

The big mystery was just "Bill and Dipper's uncle were playing Doom that one time". And that only explained one part of the whole lore.

People expected the greatest thing in the universe and were disappointed when it was the show that it is instead of the show that they were imagining.

>All this damage control
>G-guys, good characterization and interesting plot is way too much to expect guys
>This show was not even meant to be good to begin with, why are you complaining?

Not enough Mabel hypnotizing Dipper to think and act like her.

Alex broke untold children's hearts.

Probably there was an idea of having three seasons at one point but two seasons were condensed into one leading to some 2B problems like not enough Stan and Ford interaction and character development like Wendy bonding with Stan getting cut, and maybe better development of the apocalypse arc and resolution didn't happen. That's all.

But you can never make everyone happy either, ever. No matter what it would not fit everyone's idea. It was fine.

He absolutely could have had actual plot, but he didn't bother. Apparently stuff like Roadside Attraction was more important.

A lot of underused or underdeveloped characters
Mysteries left unanswered
Way too much focus on Mabel being the dominant twin in every aspect and Dipper getting shat on
Everything ends with your standard "Take over the world but hey, goofy shit saves the day"

The show's great. It's just that it never lives up to a lot of its potential. Soos is hinted at knowing more than he shows but that's never touched on. Wendy is underdeveloped. Ford and Stan needed to spend time together. Gravity Falls is left unexplained and is just summed up as "weirdness". There's apparently prophecies about Bill but fucking why and who? We barely have any traces of all those ancient religions focused on him and a lot of Bill's story just falls apart as you look back at all the shit that was written for him but wasn't executed or explained. GF has always been a show about the characters but in the end they bombed us with mystery and plot and more mystery and plot and then when it came time to actually give us some payoff on all that they jumped straight back to it being a character show only and even then it was about the Pines family only. Everyone else was half assed in the end. Gideon's sudden change of heart after being written as obsessive and unrelenting? Mabel's bullshit with her dream world and that taking up a whole episode? Pacifica's forced lines at the end of the finale? The list goes on. Hirsch denying it was rushed and that things went just as planned is a fucking lie. He's too good to just suddenly fuck out on half the show's writing like that.

For a show that's all about the characters, none of them develop in any meaningful way. They're all the same at the end as they were at the beginning, aside from maybe Stan, Ford, and Gideon.

It was good. The story is nice and square, like an actual summer vacation long.
I was satisfied with the finale.

Have fun with your opinion bruv.

Season 2B was my least favorite group of episodes, they were pretty underwhelming with a couple exceptions.

One of my biggest issues with season 2B was Ford, he was disappointing. And his and Stan's relationship was never properly developed, so the mandatory reconciliation felt cheap.

I kind of wish the show never tried to go the more dramatic route towards the end. Felt like they bit off more than they could chew. They tried to build all this plot and cool mystery but a lot of it amounted to nothing. I would have been perfectly okay with the show staying like it was in most of season 1.

First and most obvious, the hiatuses killed so much of the show.

Now for the actual flaws
Grenda existing

It felt like there was a good foundation for an overarching plot but the show couldn't decide if it wanted to be episodic or not. This isn't really a problem until we get the rushed mess that is
Season 2B.

Unveiling Ford as the author was cool I guess, but, the second they did that they pretty much ran out of mysteries. The author's identity was one of the biggest mysteries, and I kinda lost interest after they unveiled it.

Bill became boring. We got a rushed ass backstory on him and his plans were boring.

Okay. now we get to the finale. The good thing was that it was nice and long. My main problem with the finale is towards the climax. To me, the show was about mystery/comedy. The climax felt like a generic... I dunno, 'let's go get the bad guy, team friend!' Like with the mech and shit. Gideon suddenly redeeming himself felt dumb. The circle was kinda stupid too. I get that it's supposed to subvert our expectation of it's use but it was still stupid. The sacrifice was also really dumb, considering it got resolved in two minutes. The show refused to show any lasting consequences. Now, the farewell was very nice. It was comfy and bittersweet. Although, they didn't really do shit with Pacifica after redeeming her character, and I feel like Dipper could have interacted with more characters for his farewell. IT would have been a lot more meaningful.

The four-part finale was kind of trash. It had good scenes, (Ending bus ride, Cipher's death, WELCOME TO WEIRDMAGEDDON, Pacifica's Dad's horrifying face, the Mystery Shack Mecha fight), but overall, underwhelming and most of it didn't feel finale worthy and just more "mystery of the week" episodes. Like Mabel's trial was tiresome.

A whole episode dedicated to convincing Mabel not to be complete utter shit.

But it convinced her to be complete utter shit. Bravo Hirsch.

Mabel is a lot like the youngest daughter on Bob's Burgers.
Even when she is wrong, the show treats her as if she had the best intentions, and everything she did was right. Everyone will drop what they are doing and come out to tell her that the terrible thing she tried to do was okay, and better luck next time, but to feel better for now.

I don't think your comparison with Louise is correct. Bob's Burgers doesn't really treat her actions as authomatically right and if it does, I don't really remember Louise doing things Mabel did. She messes with people, while Mabel is more about having entitlements.

What? Louise has gone so far as to sabotage Bob's business deals, the happiness of her siblings, the careers of teachers, all because she wanted X and them being happy would cause Y. Louise is like some chaotic agent of the status quo, by the end everyone realizes that everything should stay exactly the same, just as Louise wanted the whole time, and lets all have a giggle at what she did.

You're right, Mabel is more about thinking she DESERVES a great boyfriend for the summer (pretty much her only motivation), but she is still insufferable for it, and still gets away with metaphorical murder to get it without anyone ever telling her off. If Mabel ends an episode sad, it is because Dipper or Stan did wrong, not because Mabel did wrong.

Generally speaking, Bob's Burgers is more edgy and antagonistic feeling so I'm fine with characters screwing each other over and not getting just punishment.

Problem with Mabel is not what she does, it's how show tries to sell us her as a saint. Louise is not sold us a saint.

This is true, the two shows have different feels. I was just saying that the character treatment is the same, and Louise is a good example of this sort of 'don't you love how terrible I am?' character type.

> "the show treats her as if she had the best intentions, and everything she did was right"

Understanding a character's POV or reasons for his/her actions is nowhere near the same as validating what was done, if you had actually paid attention to episodes if the show, you would notice that Louise has actually been reprimanded and taught a lesson quite a few times (e.g. the Gayle-Mr. Frond date episode)

I'm sorry that I insulted your waifu.

But Louise is the second worst character of Bob's burgers.

Who's the worst?

>What are this shows biggest flaws?
Mabel

Let's settle this once and for all
strawpoll.me/10221451

Gene. He is lolrandumb to the core. One of the worst 'I'm an idiot' characters I've seen in a long time.

I don't feel like he drags down plots, he just doesn't do much in most of them but sit in the background making fart jokes or randomly hitting a keyboard.

Dipper gets punished for wanting anything, the wendy crush was a cancer on the plot, Mabel was poorly written, Pacifica's character got regressed in the last episode, Stan got his memories back in five minutes

>Dipper gets punished for wanting anything
it hurts

Have you watched the latest season? They actually have toned back on the antagonistic nature a bit and seem to be focusing on how Bob can befriend almost anyone.

Gene even got a really good episode where his heart got broken.

>wheel are care bear stare powers that got shoehorned at the last possible second and in the end they didn't even matter
>portal symbols mean nothing
>stan's tattoo means nothing
>ford is dull as fuck
>soos devolved into an excuse to mock the manchild audience
>wendy was useless for most of the series despite being billed as a main character
>gideon's evil isn't supernatural in origin
>all the robbie/necromancy foreshadowing meant nothing
>northwests aren't involved in any grand secrets involving the supernatural
>robbie's redemption was tied to mabel instead of dipper and was entirely brainwashing
>pacifica's redemption was cliche muh parents shit and tied to dipper instead of mabel
>gideon's redemption was complete bullshit fueled by his love for mabel even though he tried to kill her a few episodes prior and he has always treated the 2 people who love him the most like total shit
>shermie
>obligatory d&d parody by people who have never touched a tabletop game in their lives and got scared by the rules the one time one of them attempted
>blendin was more important than most of the townsfolk purely because the manlet is JUSTin roiland's fuccboi
>stan and ford's fallout was totally contrived
>agents conveniently written off
>mcgucket disappears until he can return without complicating the ford/rift stuff (how convenient!)
>where ford was for the past 30 year was completely glossed over
>ford's relationship with anyone besides dipper is barely touched
>roadside attraction
>le meme demon goes god tier but lets dipper live because he's actually dr evil and has shitty yo gabba rejects for henchmen
>DUDE RICH PEOPLE ARE EVIL and pacifica gets an unhappy ending
>mabel didn't get any blame
>stan and bill's parallels wasn't even be touched upon
>the final end cards didn't show anything interesting

Bill's altogether nonsensical actions in Weirdmageddon and not in a "lol chaos" way but in a "writers didn't think this through" way still piss me off when I think about them too hard after all the build up with his character. But I just have to remind myself it was a kids' show and since there was apparenlty behind the scenes bullshit with the crew stabbing each other and shit, maybe, it's the best I could have expected really.

How would you describe Dipper and Mabel in terms of their personalities to someone who never watched the show?

Glad I was more akin to Hobbes on this one.

It was a great show but that's relative to other shows like it. It attempted far more with plot and mystery then many other.

Whatever flaws it has are a bit moot. It's intentionally only two seasons and that's not long enough for flaws to kill a show. It ended before that really mattered.

Was it the greatest thing to ever arrive? No. In that way it's like that show-that-must-not-be-named-or-you-all-will-lose-your-shit. Which is that relative to other shows in it's genre it's 10/10 but relative to all writing it's 7/10.

annoying

Looking back the voice acting on this show is not that great. Schaal is really the only thing the main cast has going for it, Alex's voices get grating after a while and both Ritter and Cardenelli are flat most of the time. Niki Yang is pretty good but barely gets much of a chance to shine.

>What are this shows biggest flaws?

>What are this shows biggest flaws?

-Rural american town is epicenter of monsters, time travel and elder gods.

-it´s another "we need enjoy summer" plot

-Halloween episode

>complaining about Summerwean

Nigga that was the only episode with an actual scary villain.

This, the second half of season 2 was rushed as hell. They really needed a third season but they just couldn't handle it. Makes me wish Alex made this show later on in his life when he actually matured enough to actually commit to it.

Well I watched almost all of the first season before a long break from it and not focusing enough on the supernatural was a problem it had in significant parts of s1.

The shows main problem is that it's over

Flatter = better

The cancerous tumor killing S1 was the Dipper "muh Wendy" plot. Shit and fucking obnoxious. Made worse when they eventually had to scramble through real plot and character development later on.

>i-it's just a cartoon, bro

Needed Reverse Mabel.

Not enough Dipper-on-Dipper action.

...

Also Alex is a Hack

gotta love Gompers

>Which is that relative to other shows in it's genre it's a 10/10

If you're talking about the show I know you're talking about, then no, it was not. It couldn't even be better than its predecessor. You might as well say the Thundercats reboot was good by that logic.

Dipper's feet

Pretty much we agreed that it went downhill after NWHS. What really bothered me is how they handled the aftermath after Ford was introduced. Ford barely had development, they rushed the make up until the very end of episode when he "sacrificed" himself. I'm still mad that we barely saw the progress of their relationship but instead we've got shitty filler like RA

stabbing each other? like, sabotage and infighting or poking fun?

/thread

Stan's memories at the end shouldn't have come back.

Seriously, why not just have a bit of bitter with the rest of the sweet?

I would have forgiven everything, LITERALLY EVERYTHING if Stan's sacrifice wasn't undone in two seconds because of fucking waddles

Im not even asking for a no hope kind of ending. Maybe have the show end on him flipping through the scrap book and gradually smiling HINTING at maybe he's remembering things, maybe have him tell the kids something like "Eh Im old I was probably gonna forget everything due to senility anyways, why not come back next year and we can make new memories"

but nope just undo the one thing the ending got right because a goddamn pig

Some people are claiming one of the storyboarders stabbed Alex, like stab stabbed him, fuck if I know though.

Which episode is this from?

If Stan had preserved his memories by being clever it would have worked. We know he's smarter than Ford gives him credit for. We've seen his mind and how complex it supposedly is.

He should have beaten the gun by being really good at keeping secrets.

That would have been a lot better than just "oh whoops he just got all his memories back immediately" almost like the gun didn't work or do shit at all.

Seriously how the fuck would it even kill Bill if it can't erase memories for more than 5 minutes at a time.

it would have been easier just for Stan to fight Bill in his mind and beat him legit.

>You'll pay for this Stan Pine!
>Sorry, but if there's one thing I never do It's pay Bills.

>"Sorry, but if there's one thing I never do It's pay Bills."
>This pun never happened.

How? I can understand how Mabel can be seen as this, but Dipper?

They kind of seemed to lose interest in Mabel to be honest.

...

yeah, I ain't even a professional writey guy

>What are this shows biggest flaws?

The fandom

>dat pun

I demand to know why this didn't happen

>Dipper
A mystery hunter who is socially awkward and not that strong, but very intelligent. IMO, he is one of the most relatable characters in the show.

Dipper's voice.

Things got off track leading up to and after "Not What He Seems". Prior to that it was a great monster of the week show with light overarching plot elements re: the mystery of the house and the surrounding area, Grunkle Stan's authenticity, etc. But the show didn't know how to effectively handle its more dramatic bits, and "season 2B" suffers from pacing in terms of unveiling larger story elements in these huge chunks and just explaining mysteries, not delivering satisfying character arcs for many characters (I actually think Mabel was fine come the end, but characters like Wendy and Ford needed more screentime towards the end to help wrap things up), and a bunch of other stuff that could have been helped if the show was even just a half-season longer or something. Towards the end it starts sprinting and shouting when its early power came from being slow and more subtle.

I still think even the low points of the show were pretty good, but given the first season and ESPECIALLY the first parts of season two, its easy to see how fans were disappointed as things wrapped up. The highs were so high that you almost couldn't go higher.

SOMEONE POST THE PENCIL PORN

I remember the second half of season one having more of Dipper trying to fuck Wendy than supernatural shit, which was disappointing. Getting rid of that as early as possible in season 2 saved the show.

Yeah I've watched some other cartoons since and I realized that I didn't appreciate that GF is vastly better than most shit out there, frankly including a lot of live action films and TV and books. It's just it seemed to have so much promise and certain things were pulled off so well that it was disappointed when its lofty ambitions didn't quite completely gel.

The biggest problem is that Hirsch is hyping up Mabel instead of holding her to scrutiny, disrupting the flow of the show and making her look unsymathetic. Also Dipper, for allowing such a person to control his life.

Gravity Falls planned out a few big plot twists, decided they were good enough to carry the entire mystery aspect of the show, and called it a day. A little more ambition would have done the show a world of good.

The worst example is when they didn't foresee that, in a show full of cryptic symbols that it begs the audience to analyze, people would assume that Bill Cipher's circle had some kind of importance beyond being a cool design. Then they had to shoehorn the thing into the finale just so that it wouldn't seem like a dropped plot point.

The show just didn't know its audience very well.

I do wonder if even if there was no specific meaning at first there weren't vague ideas of working the zodiac in early on and/or possibly the notion of doing something more meaningful and elaborate with it at some point.

Putin got him

I'd say it's probably the Hiatus' that damaged this show more than anything else.
I watched it from beginning to end over the last week, for the first time, and it's pretty good but making everyone wait mid-season means the people who like it the most naturally hype it up for themselves and end up disappointed.

This must be a hard cosplay to explain
>I'm mabel!
>But like, evil mabel from an obscure fanmade alternate universe scattered across dozens of tumblrs and deviantarts

Dipper didn't have any friends his age to help him go spy on Wendy in the shower

And Bill.
I get it's a kids cartoon on Disney channel, so you can't make your villain too scary, but he feels less like a genuine threat and more like a joke character that overstayed his welcome.