Please give me a hand here, in coming up with arguments to prove that moderate muslims do not exist.
For example,
>Ask a muslim what the penalty for apostasy should be
>If they do not answer "death" they are not truly muslim, per definition
>If they answer "death" they are extremist
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That one is good.
I'm having a lot of trouble with the "not all muslims"-advocates in Denmark.
We just had a discussion on national news whether to increase the public spending on psychology offers for refugees to stop terrorism.
Muslims who are happy living in secular societies are by definition secular and moderate. This covers most Muslims who want to come to Western societies and to integrate well. The extremists want a caliphate and have little tolerance for difference. They're trained to be obedient, unthinking, and zealous.
Your argument fails, user, because clearly in the world not all Muslims are extremists or terrorists.
But by defintion they are not muslim, then, as the Qur'an commands actions that cannot be seen as anything but extremist.
You can also go with the following, allows people to maintain dream of "moderates", but still have to remove kebab due to danger:
Even if they are "moderate", many of their children become radicalized. Statistics show that 2nd and 3rd generations in western countries still support Islamic terror/suicide bombings. Allowing muslim populations is a time bomb, regardless of the views of initial migrants.
thegatewaypundit.com
www.thereligionofpeace.com
There is no such thing as moderate muslims
Being muslim is about believing that all-non muslim will go to hell, which is worse than just death. So to a muslim, any non-muslim is basically a walking corpse. If he says otherwise, he is either not muslim or lying.
Oh. then are there moderate nazis? I haven't seen any. All of them were crazy shit minded people who, based on their idology, wanted to kill a lot of people. Just like muslims.
>Jews
>People
Pick one
Same as Christianity. Some Christians are completely literal and think that the world was created 6000 years ago; most treat the Bible as a historical document to be used as a guide and to be considered carefully. And anyway, if you're a little bit educated you realize that the Bible isn't even internally consistent, so it's not possible to be a consistent literalist Christian. Thie latter is only an option for undereducated people seeking easy solutions.
Muslims are the same. Many treat the Qur'an as a book that lays out goals of obedience, discipline, self-sacrifice, peace, and community care. It's only a minority who get nutso about literalist stuff, though this group is very powerful among Sunni Wahhabites, for instance (the movement that produced the 9/11 attackers).
Also a good one, thanks.
I would prefer to refrain from nazi analogies in my argumentation, Godwin's law and all. But yeah, still true.
Also a good point. We've had similar national polls in Denmark were 6/10 believe the Qur'an should be followed to the letter, and 4/10 believe that Sharia should take precedence over danish law.
There absolutely were Nazis who were not as crazed as Doctor Mengele or Hermann Göring. Many Nazi supporters or party members were the kinds of people who might support Trump now -- who feel their country isn't doing as well as they want, who feel resentment against outsiders, and who are willing to embrace a strong, charismatic leader who seems like he might have some solutions.
The best book on this phenomenon of "moderate Nazis" is Hitler's Willing Executioners: Ordinary Germans and the Holocaust. Have you read it, user?
The problem with this comparison is that christianity has been through a reformation where it is universally accepted that the old testament is no longer the absolute truth, but more of a moral compass.
Islam has been through no such reformation, and nearly all islamic leaders in muslim-majority countries preach the same hatred that has been part of the religion for centuries.
Do you not see that distinction?
Absolutely wrong. In christianity, there exists the concept of love, jesus died for our sins etc. Therefore there are different views on salvation, some clerics even proposed that salvation is universal. In islam, you either follow the letter of quran or perish. There is no concept of love, allah just demands complete submission.
If what you say were true, then all Catholics would be literalist nuts. They're not. Catholicism is the largest form of Christianity in the world and in Europe Biblical literalism among Catholics is relatively rare.
Islam could definitely do with a Reformation, though. Or, best of all, it could embrace secular education beyond madrasas. I used to teach at a secular institution in the Middle East and the gap between those exposed to modern, western education and those steeped in Islamic literalism was massive. To me, it seemed that a complete solution would just be good tertiary education with historical and textual skills for a large number of Muslims.
Just reference the pew research study. Blows the "moderates" argument out of the water. It turns out their moderates are extremely shitty people.
>Holocaust
Already discredited itself. What else you got?
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But they do. You haven't heard of Shia protecting Christians? Never heard of assad? Secular Arab governments where Shia Muslims and Christians get along? Oh, that's right, you could probable only name two sects.
You have to understand how islamic scholars work. The word of Allah is full of contradictions, but since Mohammad is infallible there cannot be any statements that are wrong, even if two statements claim the opposite is true. So you have stuff about never hurting anyone, and stuff about murdering infidels and their children. This mad shit is reconciled through a process called abrogation. Very simply, the later statements take presedence over the earlier ones and the LATER statements, made when Muhammad had become a powerful warlord with severe mental problems, are all the violent ones
>I'm a lazy fuck and like to dismiss things out of hand so I don't have to read them or use my brain to form arguments.
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Fresh off the boat, from reddit, kid? heh I remember when I was just like you. Braindead. Lemme give you a tip so you can make it in this cyber sanctuary: never make jokes like that. You got no reputation here, you got no name, you got jackshit here. It's survival of the fittest and you ain't gonna survive long on Sup Forums by saying stupid jokes that your little hugbox cuntsucking reddit friends would upboat. None of that here. You don't upboat. You don't downboat. This ain't reddit, kid. This is Sup Forums. We have REAL intellectual discussion, something I don't think you're all that familiar with. You don't like it, you can hit the bricks on over to imgur, you daily show watching son of a bitch. I hope you don't tho. I hope you stay here and learn our ways. Things are different here, unlike any other place that the light of internet pop culture reaches. You can be anything here. Me ? heh, I'm a judge.. this place.... this place has a lot to offer... heh you'll see, kid . . . that is if you can handle it.
If they call themselves Muslim then obviously they believe everything in their religious book. Which has horrible shit written in it
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youtube.com
There you go OP.
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You know, when the Catholics and Christians reform their religion for the common era, even having the pope kiss nigger feet, there's something wrong with Muslims when they're still stuck in the middle age ways.
That's the big difference there, Jimbo.
heh...nothing personnel...kid...heh
but if they answer 'death' they arent extremist, since that is literally what their book and religion advocate. extremism means going beyond the literal definition and inventing one's own interpretation
This exactly.
see
I actually had this one saved already. Also good.
This is terrifying considering the amount of turks who absolute swear to this dude in Denmark right now
Thanks. My OP argument was Dawkins, both have great points.
Yes, I agree. Let me rephrase; prove that all muslims are fucking insane.
If Islam was peaceful, extreme Islam would be extremely peaceful
just bring up Taqiyya. Anybody who believes anything a Muslim says past that is beyond facts and reason.