Alright so I was the keynesian posting that BTFOed literally every Austrian I was up against. I made one Austrian so mad he had to leave for an hour and then come back. I used my knowledge of Keynesian Economics to debunk all free-marketists and using advanced MMT debunked EVERYONE against me. Against one of the only critizisms of my theory is when Keynesianism was at its peak in the 50s why was interest on the debt so high? And the answer is it didn't have to be the government chose to borrow at higher interest rates so when they paid back the savers would receive more interest. Interest rates could always be 1% because government bonds are 100% risk free but they chose to do it a bit higher because the people they were borrowing from in the 50s were American people/banks. Alright so I'm ready to BTFO some more Austrians.
1. Trump is a Keynesian so we have KEK on our side
2. Krugman and Obongo are not keynesians because they think printing money is harmful to the economy.
3. Keynesianism got us out of the depression
>video related is what Austrian economics gets you
4. I love Keynes so much I plan on calling myself Canes when I work on wallstreet. I am only first year uni and am already making a plan to work for wallstreet and when I do I will be Mr. Canes or when I get my PHD "Dr. Canes"
Oh it's the tripfag who claimed raising taxes was Austrian economics.
Sage in all fields
Nicholas Flores
would you?
Asher Brooks
It is dumbfuck. Keynes wanted gov to fund themselves printing money not taxing. It's austrians who wanted the government to tax to finance themselves.
Ayden Young
Too Indian for me.
Lincoln Lewis
She's just my type.
Dylan Diaz
>government bonds are 100% risk free
objectively wrong
Austin Clark
They are 100% risk free because the government can always print money to pay it off.
Brandon Jenkins
I'd have reservations.
Grayson Barnes
>They are 100% risk free because the government can always print money to pay it off. Typical leaf shitposting.
Isaac Howard
Point out the flaw in my argument. Oh wait a typical Brit will probably say
>B-but m-muh inflation
Jason Rogers
so the value of the bond decreases, it's what we call "calote branco" (white/covert default).
Matthew Bennett
kek
Sebastian Sullivan
...
Matthew Price
Except the government doesn't need to print to pay off the bond just the interest which is like nothing anyway.
Daniel Johnson
The western governments have been trying the Keynes approach for the last 50 years and that's one of the main reasons for the clusterfuck we are in right now!
Keynes preached debt... and now our generation has to repay it! Keynes preached printing money which only helps the big banks and is pushed right through to the stock market, creating a bubble bigger than 2008.
When Germany was run under Austrian principles in the 1950th the average growth rate was about 8%. Now 2% seem like a dream
If we do have another Keynesian-led policy era, how do we avoid another round of stagflation that previously gave rise to Friedman?
Blake Watson
>just the interest which is like nothing anyway. the interest is about 80% of the bond in a lot of cases you autist
Isaac Walker
What is depreciation of currency.
Lincoln Reed
so, mr. canes. tell me. given the coice to reduce tax or to increase government spending to stimulate economical growth. which one do you like the most and why?
Isaiah Young
Fuck Keynes and Hayek.
Marxism is the best way to go.
Levi Murphy
...
Jonathan Edwards
I love that video, proof Austrians GET BTFO
Kayden Fisher
That won't happen.
That's because the government CHOOSES to have high interest when it is borrowing from AMERICAN people to reward them for savings. Also no the highest EVER was 20% under Reagan.
Anthony Hernandez
Fiat currency is a credit according to the MMT, so if it's a credit, then through deterioration of the purchasing power of the currency it can be practically unpaid.
Jonathan Powell
Why do you hate us, lad?
Asher White
A conservative meme
government spending and heres why. Government spending on public works and pay the workers good wages so the private sector will be forced to compete with the public sector in the form of "who can raise the wage the highest?"
Easton Morgan
Keynes gets knocked out in the video.
Jeremiah Ramirez
Alright that's even better you don't even have to pay back the debt.
You created Frederick Hayek.
Levi Williams
Last time I check Keynes wins the rap.
Dominic Richardson
Did you watch it it till the end? The main point is that Hayek has the better arguments but the crowd cheers Keynes anyways.
Justin Martinez
Keynesianism does work when it's used moderately. The problem is that for the past 50 years our economists and the Feds have been using his principles in an extreme way, causing massive debt and other problems that will eventually catch up to us. They went too far.
Aiden Stewart
So government bonds are not 100% risk free.
Logan Walker
They imply that but it's not true. Hayeks only argument is MUUUUUUUUUUUUH INFLATION
> The problem is that for the past 50 years our economists and the Feds have been using his principles in an extreme way, causing massive debt and other problems that will eventually catch up to us. They went too far. No biggie just print off the debt.
There's a reason why austrians predicted the crash in 2008 and keynesians didn't...
Jonathan Hall
do you happen to know about solow's model for economical growth? after solow, economical growth occurs by growing production factors, like capital. well in theory the output function in dependence of capital is concave, which means the first derivative is positive, the second negative. simplified, what does this tell us? growth rate is extremely high for nations which do have low amount of capital (for example germany after ww2) but does get eventually smaller over time. there are additions to this model like population growth or technological progress which explain constant growth.
Ayden Rogers
They were close friends. So that makes it all the worse when Hayek trash talks a dead man.
Keynesian knew the crash was going to happen. Austrians just said "MUH INFLATION" but didn't know a crash would happen.
Josiah Kelly
This one is even better! Hayek BTF out of Keynes hahaha
You see, giving answers like that doesn't work. You can't just provide a blanket statement like that with no supporting evidence for it. Keynesian economics HAS given rise to stagflation before, please tell me why - with some kind of logical reasoning - it won't happen again?
Kayden Ward
Please!! Both Mises and Somary predicted the crash as early as 1926!! In fact Somary had a long talk with Keynes in early 1928 and Keynes insisted that was no crash to come in his lifetime and he only wanted to get investment tips!!
Evan Butler
>No biggie just print off the debt.
why don't you realize that "printing off the debt" means making your money -- your salary -- worth less, and your purchasing power to be decreased? the people most affected by inflation are the ones who 1) don't have enough savings to preserve their wealth in foreign currency 2) don't own land property. Meaning: poor people. That is why Brazil is a shithole with absurd inequality.
Henry Hughes
Inflation protected means the maintenance of purchasing power, which requires productivity growth equal to the monetary mass growth, or else someone else has to assume the losses of purchasing power in benefit of those who signed inflation protected bonds.
A scam, basically.
Brandon Hall
On another note, how can you be so confident in Keynesian economics when the SMD theorem posited that there is no such thing as stable equilibrium points.
Economics is no more scientific than arts.
Thomas Collins
take care. btw. increasing government spending is the right answer. I dont really know about your reasoning, but the government spending multiplicator is higher than the tax multiplicator leading to more growth. take a look into the IS/LM interpretation of keynes done by hicks.
Nathaniel Sanchez
>Keynesian knew the crash was going to happen. Austrians just said "MUH INFLATION" but didn't know a crash would happen.
That's just wrong...
>MUH INFLATION
Not an argument
Colton Gutierrez
>government bonds are 100% risk free
Opinion discarded
Easton Carter
Sup guys any good econ docs that I can watch?
David Thomas
OP your beliefs seem flawed to me as you don't understand the purpose of governments or what their aim is long term. You also don't understand the concept of devaluing currency.
Looking at your flag, I'm guessing you are almost certainly a troll.
Jonathan Cox
Team Hayek here!
Leo Williams
Free to Choose
Oliver Brooks
>government printing money to fund government expenditure >not a taxation
hahahaha t. Cucknadian economics education.
Daniel Garcia
keynesian economics and other popular economic schools of thought is nothing but propaganda setup by jews and the banker elite to benefit them and only them. In other words op you've bluepilled yourself into believing their bullcrap. having a private national bank and borrowing from them to print money only benefits the bankers not the country. all the major wars in the past sole purpose was to setup these private banks in each major country, before that it was the national government who was in charge of printing money, and the value of the money was tied to the cultural influence of the country that created it.
The monetary system we have now is based on the oldest trick in the book, the jews only allowed their currency 'the shekel' to buy a sacrifice at the temple, this allowed them to manipulate the currency and increase or decrease the price of animal live stock without the worshippers noticing.This is why Jesus expelled the merchants from the temple.
Justin Reed
After watching these threads by the hour you're horrible at arguing. Printing money cannot solve everything. A steady inflation rate is the exact same thing as a tax. Governments will borrow money to compensate. Then in order to pay interest rates they have to tax more, borrow money, or or print. .Do you see the problem here. Even if we take Keynes bullshit algebra economics >LOOK IF I CHANGE THIS VARIABLE IT CHANGES THIS (EVEN THOUGH IT CHANGES 500 THINGS) It doesn't mean it's the best system. Theoretical things are just that. We've seen Keynesian economics in action plenty of crony capitalism and economic stagnation >b-b-but look at our awesome recoveries right even if Americans are worse off after the recovery It may be the best recession economic system, but that doesn't mean it should be the default. Economics is so complex nobody can even hope to understand how to manipulate it. There are far too many variables. Last of all economics is a creation of society. We've clearly measured the objective superiority of classic liberal values in our culture. Keynesian economics contradicts that. The economy comes before the society and free-market economics are objectively superior in that regard. Sure you might not get to brag about GDP, but people are objectively better off because of lower inflation, lower taxes, and smaller government. Eventually Keynesian economics will encounter a complete collapse.
Josiah Jones
the smd just just says there is no necessary symmetry between macro and micro econ
which means that current understanding of either (or both) is imperfect or that certain aspects of them are qualitatively opaque to each other
would you say physics isnt a real science just because the elementary forces as described by the standard model can't be fully reconciled yet?
Gavin Richardson
>Paul (((Krugman))) vs Peter (((Schiff))) >Oy Vey just a coincidence >(((Alan Greenspan))) LOVES (((AYN RAND))) BUT THE BANKS NEED A BAILOUT! >Subprime lending, Fractional reserve banking, (((government))) regulation, (((THE FEDERAL RESERVE))) if only there was a third way?
Zachary Brooks
Is this the same retarded pro-Obama leaf? You are equally obnoxious and wrong.
Isaac Johnson
>government can always print money to pay it off dude free money lmao
Samuel Davis
Well you just fucked yourself on the very first post.
Printing money is taxation.
If you increase the money supply each unit is worth less. You are essentially taking money from people by debasing the value of currency without their knowledge or consent.
Atleast with taxation people know they are getting fucked over and by how much.
Dominic Smith
>In the road to serfdom Hayek identifies Freedom as English philosophy and socialism and central planning as German philosophies Kek
Lincoln Harris
>Atleast with taxation people know they are getting fucked over and by how much.
and rich people can dodge it better
Jackson Lee
>3. Keynesianism got us out of the depression
Austin Morales
Why do you think the government will ever, ever be able to outsmart rich people when it comes to money
>m-m-maybe this shitty redistributionist government policy will work this time around!
Wrong
Andrew Allen
I already had the pleasure with him a few days ago. This guy doesn't know that investment is a part of GDP, what time preference is nor what time-inconsistency is. Pretty easy to tell he is baiting at this point. I like his little show too, just have it in mind when debating him.
Jayden Garcia
Yes. The magical fairy of consumer confidence sprinkled her fairy dust on the economy and fixed everything.
Alexander Gutierrez
>A conservative meme You are a fucking moron, do you even know how supply and demand works?
Let me explain it to you as one would a child.
Imagine if you had 5 apples and your neighbor had 5 oranges. (For argument sake these are the only apples and oranges in existence)
How many apples would one orange be worth? The answer is one
Lets say you now have 10 apples. How many apples would you have to trade to get one orange?
The answer is two. Oranges are now scarcer than apples so they are worth twice as much as an apple.
So the more you increase the apple supply the less oranges you will be able to purchase with each apple.
It works exactly the same with currency.
Zimbabwe is a perfect example of this. Nigger tier morons think they can just keep printing more money without affecting purchasing power.
Christopher Nelson
wew
Jeremiah Garcia
>be an Austrian Archduke >destroy the world >be an Austrian corporal >destroy the world >be an Austrian economist >destroy the world
What is wrong with Austrians?
Jason Rodriguez
That's why the rich hoard real estate. Cant print that. You are a non-rich person and wan't to buy a house? Too bad. All those empty houses held as a safe, owners having no plans of letting anyone live there.
Sebastian Long
Rich people are even better of when it comes to inflating the money supply.
Those that use it first negate the effects of reduced purchasing power.
This is because it takes a while for markets to equalize, so the ones getting fucked the hardest by inflation are those at the bottom of the money supply funnel.
Isaac Murphy
>the rich hoard real estate meme
Eli Martin
There is no reason why the demand for apples and the demand for oranges would be the same, therefore there is no reason why the value of apples and oranges should be the same. You can, in fact, print more currency when the demand for your currency increases.
Ryan Rivera
>No biggie just print off the debt. Then no one will trust that currency anymore because of hyperinflation. I agree with Keynes for the most part, but at some point you have to draw the line where you're actually doing more harm than good.
Julian Evans
>apples and oranges are exactly the same as currency Apples and oranges, apples and oranges indeed
Tyler Perez
It is an over-simplified analogy to how markets work Britbong.
Supply and demand, the very foundations of economics.
Tell me what would happen if the market was flooded with diamonds tomorrow?
Would the price of diamonds go up or down?
Noah Edwards
They do that. Real estate is considered safe. As Canadian you should know it. Chinese who keep buying your houses, leaving them empty. I've seen you guys complaining about it here before.
Christopher Adams
Are you serious
Liam Jenkins
Keynesianism got us into the depression.
Henry Diaz
It would go down, unless suddenly a new use for diamonds was found creating a supply surge.
Mason Torres
>Keynes >After 1973 crash >After 2008 crash
Owen Bennett
If you can just "print off debt," how do you avoid ZLB problems during secular stagnation.
Jackson Anderson
You must have an American level of understanding when it comes to economics to think Britain was practicing Keynesianism in 2008 and not Monetarism. I suppose you're going to play ignorant and pretend that the 1973 crash wasn't brought about by the oil shocks.
Nathaniel Cox
>Obama believes printing money is bad for the economy
Faggot leafposter detected gtfo
Adrian Nguyen
Depends what you consider rich. If you consider the Chinese immigrants to be the rich people then sure. If you consider billionaires rich then no they don't hoard real estate. >Chinese who keep buying your houses, leaving them empty. I've seen you guys complaining about it here before. Mostly a meme except in Toronto I think.
Joshua Wood
My god man...
Do understand what currency is? Do understand supply and demand is?
Back in the day, people would literally trade apples for oranges or apples for chickens and pigs.
So instead currency like rare metals (gold and silver) was used. Because you do not want to cart around 100 apples to trade for a pig.
Currency is literally a measure of the ratio between the value of one type of goods over another.
1 apple = 1 silver 1 pig = 100 silver
1 pig = 100 apples
Brandon Roberts
The problem is that this money never really made it to the population, it stayed at the banks and other financial institutions.
Elijah Sanders
Right so now it's stocks that are inflated How is this any better
Lucas Phillips
Precisely, everything whether goods, services, jobs or currency works exactly the same.
If you increase the supply of something without demand increasing in proportion it goes down in value.
William Butler
Rich or not, the reason they buy them is because they rather held to a house than to currency.
Aiden Hernandez
Keynesian economics is an oxymoron.
Jaxon Sanders
...
Ryan Reed
What? I was saying it's a bad thing that the money (or most of it) did not make it to the population because the Govt. choose to distribute most of it through the banks instead of things like infrastructure programs or similar things.
Aiden James
>is >was >back in the day >apples, chickens and pigs >let's just assume that
Honesty haven't even read the thread. Okay, back in the day you bought pigs, apples and shit with way less extractable metal than these days. These days we cant assume there are just two people and twenty apples. It is, actually not exactly the same. Its hundreds of different countries some producing no apples at all, but silicates and stuff like that, some african countries in the global mix whose main inudstry is being a toxic waste dump, and some countries like switzwerland producing mostly financial industry. Then some of these countries have different sorts of currency unions, and money creation ways, be it apple-based or FIAT money. It's pretty different, from apples and oranges
