What's the deal with Sup Forums and tarkovsky ?
I mean he has really good movies, but Sup Forums likes to talk shit an it's one of two cases :
>"holy shit amazing movie, so much depth and beauty, obviously coming from a poets son what can you say"
or
>"hurr durr it's so long and has retarded dialog, only retards like him, his films are trash tier muh complicated movie durr people only watch him to say that shit"
what do you REALLY think about his movies ?
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A bit overhyped, but his films are really like poems brought into the visual medium, true experiences.
Whoever thinks his films are complicated and that you have to get some specific "meaning" or symbolic point out of it is factually wrong.
I think it's because most of the people who see tarkovsky expect a sudden epiphany or something, it's mostly the people who watch interstellar / fight club / shutter island and talk about how the "mindfuck" actually made them re-think their lives etc..
People don't get the fact that you watch a film for it's beauty, there's nothing to take from it.
It's not literature.
Tarkovsky's films are babby's first introduction into arthouse, simple enough for the uninitiated to get into but too slow and "boring" for the ADHD kids of Sup Forums.
In general his stuff is good but you should watch his films only twice, the first time when you're 16 and your taste is fucking superior, the second when you're in your twenties and can grasp the meanings in them (whoever says there's no objective interpretation is a pleb and you shouldn't listen to them)
You're right and wrong.
Yes most people expect a concrete mindfuck epiphany, but you're wrong by saying "there's nothing to take from it."
I was just saying that there isn't a singular universal answer which everyone should get out of it, there is no right or wrong interpretation. That doesn't mean that you can't take anything from it, sure you can.
A lot of people obviously took a lot from it, even todays famous directors constantly take something from his films
Also literature isn't by any means a stronger or "better" medium than film, I don't know why you said that.
>whoever says there's no objective interpretation is a pleb and you shouldn't listen to them
So you shouldn't listen to Tarkovsky himself? You know better than the creator of said films huh?
Here's a quote about symbolism and "meanings" from Tarkovsky himself:
>"I am an enemy of symbols. Symbol is too narrow a concept for me in the sense that symbols exist in order to be deciphered. An artistic image on the other hand is not to be deciphered, it is an equivalent of the world around us. Rain in Solaris is not a symbol, it is only rain which at certain moment has particular significance to the hero. But it does not symbolise anything. It only expresses. This rain is an artistic image. People always try to find "hidden" meanings in my films. But wouldn't it be strange to make a film while striving to hide one's thoughts? An image cannot be a symbol in my opinion. Whenever an image is turned into a symbol, the thought becomes walled in so to speak, it can be fully deciphered. A symbol contains within itself a definite meaning. An image — as opposed to a symbol — is indefinite in meaning. One cannot speak of the infinite world by applying tools that are definite and finite"
I was talking about a "life lessons", there are retards who after watching a certain film get a better grasp on life ( complete bullshit ).
I'm saying his films are a beauty for the eye, they're like a fine piece of art you enjoy, there is nothing "moral" if you want to take from them.
Unlike in literature, you can find a lot a lot of examples, ( brothers karamazov for instance )
I'm saying literature is more the field to find these " life lessons " not film.
Only proves my point, people look for 'hidden messages' for some reason instead of enjoying a film, they expect an ending with meaning and with answers.
I've never seen any
I'm not ready yet
This is a good post.
you don't understand that quote yourself. He's talking about people trying to find hidden meanings in his films, he makes the instance of rain. That doesn't mean that behind the fancy cinematography and non-linear narratives of his films there aren't very straight stories ie Stalker is the story of people trying to find meaning in their lives, Zerkalo is about his relationship with his mother, Nostalgia is about defecting from Russia and leaving his children behind, Sacrifice is autobiographical and encompasses more than one of these recurring themes.
He's talking about symbols in that quote and not about meaning in his film, so it's completely out of place in this discussion.
Every person interprets everything differently, but i think he's referring to the people who are actively looking for every single little thing and attack idiotic relations to it.
Tarkovsky himself has said there's no deeper meaning. Was he a pleb?
>Every person interprets everything differently
that goes without saying, what I'm arguing here is that Stalker for instance is about, very broadly, the search for meaning and the complications that search leads to, what else could it possibly be about? This is what I mean when I say his films are straight, people that want to make it into, I don't know, a metaphor for Communism for instance are objectively wrong (and there are plenty of people like that)
I agree that behind it all are very straight stories, but those things you mentioned are just the themes in his narratives, not "meanings" or some 2deep4u interpretations.
Another quote from Tarkovsky to clear things up for you
>I am constantly being asked what this or that means in my films. It's unbearable! An artist does not have to be accountable for his intentions. I only desire to induce feelings, any feelings, in viewers.
And guess what is the sole purpose of poetry? To induce feelings in the person who reads it.
Only for true patrician Sup Forums anons.
what? have you read sculpting time? why are you making shit up?
mirror is solely about russia
>Sacrifice is autobiographical and encompasses more than one of these recurring themes.
what the hell are you talking about?
There isnt,people just want to complicate things.
read my comment again and you will find out that what I'm saying is exactly: "there's no deeper meaning, what you see is what you get".
Themes are meanings, what are you on about? There's one overarching theme which is what Tarkovsky meant to say, which is, the only meaning. The second part of your post is exactly correct, but I don't understand what (visual) poetry has to do with meaning, that's just the visual expedient with which the meaning is conveyed.
Yes. What am I making up? You'll have to do better than "Mirror is about Russia"
I absolutely love Tarkovsky. He's incredible but that does not mean he's for everyone. Without a doubt you must respect the guys craft and artistic beauty within his filmmaking. Do not expect his films to change your entire mode of thinking but if you can make it through one of them and enjoy it for what it is you will get more emotional meaning and connection than you will from most films you will see in your life.
read sculpting time
you're making up your own interpretations about the films as if they were objective, mixed with your pleb gut emotional reaction
how the fuck can you disagree that mirror is a love letter to russia? the references to russian literature, poetry, film, mixed with overlapped historical russian footage, seriously you are one dumb motherfucker if you think the main theme is the relationship with his mother.
learn2tark
This guy is correct,if anything Mirror was flashback of his life from his perspective.
youtube.com
Russia is based, love their talents, songs, poetry, literature, amazing history.
no samefagging allowed itt
>the references to russian literature, poetry, film
lmao, so all of his films are about Russia? Seriously, the fact that you watch a film like Mirror and all you can get out of it is "this film is solely about Russia!" makes me sad for you.
Mirror is 100% about his mother, Andrey Rublev was much more about Russia than Mirror was. Just answer me this: what do you think the title "the mirror" means?
>mfw you didn't checkem
Boring pseudo-filmaker. Id rather watch something as bad as capeshit over the boring drawn out scenes in Tarkovsks movies
...
childhood is finding this scene romantic
adulthood is realizing it was rape
This kills the patrician
Boring is a state of mind. Such statement is more a reflection of yourself than the film. You're said quite literally nothing about the artistic merits of Tarkovsky's films, only made it clear what your inherent emotional response to them is. Nobody cares what goes on in your head if you can't remove yourself from such emotion and bother to describe the film itself.
>Mirror is 100% about his mother
source?
also funny how you conveniently ignored "overlapped with old footage from russian history"
the title is mirror, not the mirror
also i'm not going to argue, the film is about russia
"A dying man in his forties remembers his past. His childhood, his mother, the war, personal moments and things that tell of the recent history of all the Russian nation."
come back to the thread when you've read sculpting time
noice
>The childhood memories that Tarkovsky drew on for Mirror
fall into three groups: the pre-war scenes set at the dacha; the
wartime scenes; and the dreams. The first scene after the
opening credits shows Maria waiting on a fence. Alexei
describes in voice-over how she would wait for passers-by to
reach the bush in the middle of the field: if they turned
towards the house, it meant that it was father, returning
home; if they carried straight on, it meant that they were not
father and that he would never return.This would appear to
be one of Tarkovsky’s own memories, as he writes that his
enduring memories of childhood were of waiting for the
war to end and for his father to come home
stop listening to that retard.
>stop listening to that retard.
what retard?
I don't remember where I read it because I read it years ago, but you must be braindead if you can't see how the whole thing is about his relationship with his mother and his time growing up.
You still haven't replied to my question.
Your only source is Sculpting in time, come back when you have read/watched more than just one thing. How many documentaries have you seen? Have you seen the other side of stalker? What's a plot summary that mentions his childhood and his mother in the exact quote you post as a main theme have to do with film exegesis and the topic we're currently discussing? The old version of Maria is played by Tarkovsky's own mother, did you know that?
Note that I didn't say it's solely about his mother like you said it's solely about Russia, quote me where he says "Mirror is a love letter to Russia and nothing else" said by Tarkovsky himself, then I'll shut up.
>As Tarkovsky recounts in Sculpting in Time, he had originally planned to write a novella detailing his childhood memories of the Second World War. At some point, he abandoned this project and began thinking of recreating these memories on film. A first draft focused exclusively on this recreation. It was “full of elegiac sadness and nostalgia for my childhood” (1). The title, at this point, was A White, White Day. Unsatisfied with it, Tarkovsky decided, in his second draft, to include filmed interviews with his mother discussing her own memory of the same period, as a point of tension or contrast. This idea would evolve into Mirror. Although he decided against the use of interviews, he does include some fleeting images of his mother Maria Vishnyakova, as well as his second wife, Larisa Tarkovskaya, and the voice of his father Arseny Tarkovsky, reading some of poems.
yes i knew she played the mother, i've read quite more than sculpting time, but i don't believe you've done the same, also sculpting time should be my only source for this, since it develops on tark's cinematic language, mise en scene, relationship with other mediums and thoughts on russia, but since you haven't read it you wouldn't know
you still haven't answered my first question, where are you getting this from? what are your sources for the claim that the film is about his mother?
>Note that I didn't say it's solely about his mother
your post here says it's 100% about his mother, can't you read your own posts retard?
>quote me where he says "Mirror is a love letter to Russia and nothing else" said by Tarkovsky himself
there isn't one, now find me a quote where he say it's 100% about his mother you fag
pretty stupid to assume it isn't solely about russia, since it's a loose autobiography that features clips from russian history, nods to russian literature, narrates russian poetry, and takes russian iconographic portrait as visual inspiration
reply and keep outing yourself as a pleb
I already told you I don't remember but this isn't enough proof? This is taken from Sculpting in time with you """allegedly""" have read.
I've read Sculpting in time and I've read many more books than you have.
It's 100% as in it's -definitely- about his mother and not as -wholly and singularly- about his mother but I can understand there can be a misunderstanding there.
Of course there isn't one because it isn't.
I refer you again to where the opposite is stated.
>clips from russian history
Andrey Rublev was about Russian history
>nods to russian literature
how? If you mean generally, all his movies do
>narrates russian poetry
his father's poetry to be correct
>takes russian iconographic portrait as visual inspiration
so did Stalker
I'm not arguing that any of his movies are not about Russia, he's fucking Russian, of course they are. Russia is obviously a recurring theme but it's not the main theme of Mirror. The only reason why the movie is about Russia is because Tarkovsky's childhood is in Russia, and the film is about Tarkovsky, in that sense you can say 'it's about Russia herp derp', wow great analysis, tell me how it's about Communism too.
You're fucking retarded and I'm done replying to a pleb who can't even understand Tarkovsky's easy-as-pie films, come back when you've watched more than 4,000 films.
What's the most entry level Tarkovsky?
Stalker and Solaris are the ones I've heard mentioned most, is it one of them?
just start with whatever, keep in mind tarkovskys "worst" movie was solaris ( he said he didn't like the way it panned out or something like that ) but it's really remarkable, i'd say start with that.
Stalker might be too long for a first timer, you'll get tired quickly and might even fall asleep.
Ivan's Childhood
ivans childhood
congrats on outing yourself as a liar pleb
the burden of proof is on you faggot, prove it that I'm lying about whatever it is that I'm lying about, I brought proof, it's your turn now.
suddenly the argument is over.