>The Avengers should not have supervision!
>We should work by ourslves!
>Implying that the opening act on Civil War wouldn't have been solved if Team Cap had the help of 30 S.W.A.T agents or 30 soldiers on their side.
Why Cap was so wrong in everything ever?
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They would have apprehended Rumlow, he would have blown up, killed at least 4 offical assigned to help the Avengers, and countless other cavilians. Cap's team handled the situation as well as anyone could have
Cap's big problem with supervision was that they would be told when and where to deploy, and given how countries operate that would be almost never. He would end up exactly where he started "A publicity icon".
As a self governing team they may not have as much man power and only the support of a billionaire but the level of freedom far outweighs anything else.
yeah, those African security personnel sure did wonders against Crossbones.
Because he is secretly a communist who hates all the avengers and would let them get killed at the drop of a hat by Bucky and then say "well it isn't his fault"
No fucking different than when he first started with the government
He is such a tool
Having people with the ability to destroy the world running aroind playing police and doing whatever they want should not be a thing either.
its a fucking comic book movie
>we shouldn't have supervision
>says the solider
Because the last time he did the bidding of an international consortium, it turned out to be Hydra.
Then don't bring politics into the table if you don't want logic.
I was more upset that Tony was so easily roped into being guilted because of MUH SON
Look at it this way-
Say Russia or China decided to create its own superhero team. They give them an unlimited budget, fancy high tech and superpowers, and the ability to travel to every other country while ignoring those country's laws.
So the lesson is not to trust people ever?
They were just trying to move the movie along
No one wants a 20 minute scene of that shit
No, the lesson - which Cap articulated clearly - is that the Avengers' judgment is better than a bunch of internationalist bureaucrats who may or may not be minions of an evil cult.
>says the solider who became a soldier by not listening to numberous rejections from authorities.
>says the solider who got the rank of Captain by disobeying orders
>says the solider who went rogue to save his best friend since 1945
>says the solider who found out the last people he took orders from were literal facists
Captain America was never a good soldier.
I thought supervision was something to do with either vision or a new superpower for whatever reason. Break from the internet for me!
are you claiming that the Avengers were made by and funded by the US government?
Are Hawkeye and Black Widow the only super spies of that caliber in the world? Why doesn't SHIELD just assign like 30 super spies to work under the Avengers?
because SHIELD doesn't exist anymore remember? It works in the shadows now and they can't know Coulson is alive because Whedon is a a little bitch.
Depends how you mean. Most of SHIELD are shown to be adequately trained, but the exceptionally skilled or capable like Widow and Hawkeye are the result of extremes or chance so it would be unlikely for them to exist naturally.
They were.
SHIELD started the Avengers project. Now you can say that they're international, but let's face it.
The representative from Kenya doesn't have much say on what SHIELD does.
SHIELD introduced the individual members, nothing more. They went to New York in a hijacked Quinjet in direct defiance of SHIELD authority.
They may have been made by the US Government but they only worked with them for about a day. Cap worked with SHIELD for a bit but then stopped when he learned that it was secretly run by Hydra.
which is the crux of Caps reasoning to not wanting to answer to any government, because lets face it.
They could always be run by Hydra.
Why didn't Captain America just stick Black Panther to a strong magnet?
is vibranium even magnetic?
They still created the team, it's their fault for not exerting more control from the beginning.
>It works in the shadows now
How do you keep a giant flying aircraft carrier in the shadows?
that wasn't SHIELD. they fixed it up but it was given to The Avengers for them to use.
But why should we, citizens, trust them?
>Hydra
>running the UN
Nigga, Hydra are too competent to run the UN
I don't know about that. they kinda ran SHIELD for a long time.
because they've done a decent job so far. as much as Ross and the others tried to spin the various disasters as handled poorly, the Avengers have done a fantastic job of containing and thwarting world threatening disasters.
MOVIE STREAM
swimelodeon.com
>"MUH FREEDOM TO DO WHAT'S RIGHT, TONI!!!1!"
Captain America is a great guy, but he's a fucking freeze-dried kid from Brooklyn who took an ice bath at the end of World War 2 and just thawed out a couple years ago.
In his last movie, he literally had "Learn about the Cold War" on his to-do list. ("Berlin Wall: Up and Down", specifically) Are foreign nations like Nigeria, Thailand, etc. really supposed to just trust that he and his buddies will be able to instinctively know how to properly navigate the incredible tricky and delicate world of geopolitics 0 guidance, supervision, or regional advisement?
>UN
>competent
...
>missing the point
if they don't like it they can just kill him
Steve actually has an enhanced nervous system and psychology, and not just intelligence like Tony or Vision, so yes I'd say they should trust him.
It's suggested since The First Avenger that he's constantly processing information with an eidetic memory, but his humility has been retained throughout all of that experience. To say he's learning from what he's been through and seen is an understatement.
Doesn't he have to make like a million fucking calculations a second just to throw his damn shield?
BLM is important bro. You cant ignore that stuff anymore. Marvel did the right thing.
Neither was Chesty Puller. The bad ones are always the best ones.
I'm pretty sure President Obama has Fury's number.
>The Vibranium core has got a magnetic field, that's what's keeping the rock together,
-Age of Ultron
Yeah he didn't like it then either
That was the joke.
Not the perfect soldier
but
a good
man
For most of the threads people agree with Steven to varying degrees. The most common logic given is that the accords are deficient of logic and guilt tripping the heroes of the world by showing 70 odd sum deaths from what came to save literally billions of lives is retarded. Every incident they showed except the African situation, involved millions upon millions, to the entire planets population (billions), safety and health. Most people did note that some kind of lax supervision could be justified, but the accords were idiotic. Who has that strawpoll blowing Tonyfags out of the water?
>Chesty Puller
Dude was an asshole that wrote his own awards. Same with McArthur. Now, Smedley Butler, there is a god damn hero. Dude received the medal of honor twice, achieved the highest rank that existed at the time, wrote a book about how oligarchies a shit, and even then he was still approached by the Business Coup to overthrow FDR. You know what he did? Fucking took the letter and presented it to congress to show they had literal fascists plotting to take over America.
>freedom
I'm glad this is never lost on cap. Freedom is always the bottom line with him.
Well, except of freedom of 115 countries of the world who do not want him or his help. Fuck their decisions, democracy and freedom. If Cap decides they need help, they will get their fucking help, no matter what they think about it.
Cap was right.
Deal with it, Starkfags.
Cap claimed they were being manipulated by a third party, aka Zemo
He was right.
Cap also didn't like that they woulnd't be able to act where they deemed necessary if the UN had to approve them
Ross didn't even consider the possibility that a third party might had been involved, which would have allowed Zemo to do whatever the fuck he wanted if every avenger signed the accords
It's obvious that Cap's obsession with Bucky is pretty much insanity, but between those 2 and what happened on TWS I don't blame him for not trusting anybody to supervise the avengers
It's Ross. He's basically a wanna-be supervil without powers, so he uses his military might to enact his will. He's a consistent villain.
I have problems, I read supervision like it's a superpower like heat vision.
Is Catptain America.
Like America they think they know better and no one should tell them anything while ignoring that they own their success to other people.
>vibranium shield made with mineral from Africa = slavery
>super serum = white privilege
Ding Ding Ding!
I love that moment in the trailer when they talk:
>If we do not accept supervision, we are no better than the bad guys.
>It's not the way I see it...
>...
>...
>...He is my friend!
Cap has no moral ground except muh friendship.
Actually from my experience Europeans tend to side with Stark and Americans usually take Caps side. I need to make a thread or something to check my theory.
Ross is what?
...
how they handle exploding man?
I am from Russia and I for TeamCap.
Cykefag detected.
Poland, Team Stark
Switzerland. Neutral.
America. and I side with Tony
>guy from a pseudo-dictatorship is pro Team Cap
Not surprised, have you paid your respect to based Putin yet today?
What?
>which is the crux of Caps reasoning to not wanting to answer to any government, because lets face it.
>They could always be run by Hydra.
Well shit, then, let's just ignore all laws forever. They could be a secret HYDRA plot.
It would be way more likely and easier for the Avengers themselves to all be HYDRA than the governments of 117 countries (at which point HYDRA would already rule the world anyway). Cap is insisting that he be the exception to the rules everyone else plays by, that his judgement should override all others because he's always right. You never, EVER want to give anyone that kind of authority.
Ross did nothing wrong.
Cap isn't saying that he should be the ultimate authority, but that heroes should be allowed to decide for themselves whether or not they want to act on a certain incident.
he's an senile old man
I'm pretty sure the powers of a lot of avengers include supervision.
But it is, and it's name is the USA. Since it actually is a very real thing, what hypothetical solution do you have for such an issue?
They, as in the government, as in hydra?
>villains make joke superheroes to make the people feel safe
>also get to play the innocent card when the good guys don't want to do what the bad guys say
>"bad guys didn't have enough control over the good guys"
That's the same thing. He wants his decisions to override all other laws.
>Forget the law, let us do what has to be done. You can trust us because we've protected you so many times.
Exactly how HYDRA almost took over the world.
There's this thing called sovereign countries.
They are and you know it, they go from mirrikan to international all the time and international always mean pro murrika
And literally the first movie is their fault just like the second, they contained their own mess
How is that any different than Steve invading a country to enact his will?
Kek Americans are really this ignorant?
Muh tovarisch. Bidlo follow team Stark only because of Robert "down here" Jr. without getting the point of First Avenger: Another War
....How come they didn't have Vision with them during the opening scene? He seems like the type of guy who could've phased through Rumlow and fucked up the bombs wiring or something? Or maybe, in a really freaky scene, he grabs Rumlow and starts to phase, pulling him and the bomb down into the Earth. We don't see what happens, we just see the ground shake a bit and then Vision calmly floats back up from the ground, small smile on his face.
Cause it looked like it was some kind of field test for Wanda
Well that's just stupid, they should've at least had a couple more people in the shadows in case shit went bad, which it did.
Seriously, why wasn't Vision there? If it was a field test wouldn't he have benefited from it too? He's perfect for espionage shit, so him just floating around and phasing through walls would be really fucking helpful.
>A supersoldier from the 1940s who can't adapt to modern life and who's best friend is history's most notorious evil assassin
>A weapons dealer who created a robot who destroyed an entire country and almost the entire human race
>A robot created by the robot who tried to exterminate the entire human race
>A guy who turns into an unstoppable, city-destroying monster whenever his heart rate gets too high
>A longtime member of the organization who nearly took over the world by claiming to be protectors
>Same as above, but also engineered to be a remorseless killing machine from birth.
>An alien king who's brother tried to take over the world
>A former HYDRA member with godlike power, who helped a robot nearly wipe out humanity, and knowingly sent a monster to attack a city full of innocent people
TRUST US
WE KNOW WHAT'S BEST FOR YOU
But those countries could all secretly be hydra
But they saved us from the robot they created!
I'd rather trust them than Hydra, senile lunatic who created Abomination and guys who thought that nuking New York > 74 people in casualties.
I'd rather trust them than the UN
The first and last aren't the UN.
Ross doesn't have absolute control, and claiming he created the Abomination is reaching. He gave a highly decorated soldier Captain America powers. Said soldier went rogue and injected himself with Hulk blood.
With or without Loki someone would have invaded. Thor has no control over is brother.
>With or without Loki someone would have invaded.
What do you base this on?
>Hey! Stop invading our borders and imposing your will by saving all of our people from disaster!
>Hey! Why didn't you stay on our borders and help relief efforts even though you're probably exhausted from fighting aliens or ultra powerful robots?! We're going to blame you for literally all the destruction and casualties for not staying on our borders for an indeterminate amount of time to recover a bunch of dead bodies from rubble and rebuild cities with tons of buildings and roads.
>Hey! Stop invading our borders and imposing your will by saving all of our people from disaster!
I'm sure the US military thinks the same thing when people complain about all the collateral damage and civilian casualties.
Disaster they created.