Why do Europeans hate freedom of speech so much? It's not just US Americans that hold free speech in such high regard...

Why do Europeans hate freedom of speech so much? It's not just US Americans that hold free speech in such high regard, is it? Can some non-Europeans and non-US Americans weigh in please?

>suggesting people should buy guns for self defence would be considered inciting violence
yeah there is no way that comment isn't bait

Never underestimate the total retardation of leftist Europeans and fudds.

What the US does, is they allow freedom of speech, but then the FBI infiltrates any radical groups that they fear might be causing problems, and the break them apart, (almost certainly illegally), and get rid of them. This is true for the KKK, for various "militias", communists, anarchists, black panthers, white supremacist cults, other kinds of cults, Fundamentalist Mormons and lots of others.

What we do in Europe is we just put a gag on the leadership of those troublesome groups in the first place so their numbers never grow large enough to need a more hands on "American" approach.

>we put a gag on leadership
*and everyone else, for that matter

Why do Americans go for bait every single time?

>Europe is a single country
God I hope federalization never happens

Because they are genuinely too dumb and unthinking to be able tell what is bait and what isn't.

Europeans still long for the days when they were controlled Monarchs to tell them what to do.

The US was a country made for people who wanted to control their own destiny.

i refuse to believe any europoor is actually this stupid
it has to be bait
please tell me its bait

>Bait

I’ve seen more than a handful of heavily upvoted comments on r/worldnews before about Europeans jacking off the the fact that they lack free speech and gun rights. It isn’t bait.

i love how clueless americans are

This reads like bait but it's not right?

I believe it

>With friends in Germany
>Raise my arm to point out an interestingly shaped cloud
>Polizei tackle me to the ground

bump

literally nobody posts bait on reddit; the objective there is to get points, not (You)s

because americans are all talk and no walk

>muh freedom is freedom of speech

pic related
I physically could not get a legible zoom out sufficient to get a euro country in there, still got the US though, right there at the top with the big boys, ahead of Russia, waddling along Caribbean shitholes and Turkmenistan, my sides

Giving braindead cultists a platform and allowing them to drag everyone down is not freedom of speech. Democracy is not everything allowed to everyone. but I guess subtleties are not an american thing

>MOAHHHH freedum gunz speech land of the free
How's that FCC coming along burger?

Not only are you litteraly one of the least free country on Earth, you've been brainwashed to believe you're one of the free-est. Talk about propaganda, the commies hadn't got shit to brag about compared to you guys
>the absolute state of Burgystan

it's not bait, that's just legitimately what Redditors are like. This is why nobody wants them posting here.

>whataboutism

>we have the biggest incarceration rate because our prisons are full of darkies
>burgers actually think this is a defense

>giving braindead cultists and allowing them to drag everyone down is not freedom of speech
neither is siccing the cops on someone for saying nigger, or that maybe you don't like black people very much.
>democracy is not everything allowed
You're right, it isn't, we have rules that state that your rights end where another person's well being begins. Saying that you don't particularly like niggers very much doesn't infringe on that,
>inb4 muh kkk
registered hate groups in the US are hilariously small and impotent. The KKK, for example, only has about 5,000 current members.

let me be nice and give you some perspective, given that it what you most cruelly lack

pic related

Admitting your retarded argument that high prison rates come from high shre of pop being black, which are genetically predisposed to crime, there's only one conclusion
>black population in the US increased by 400+% between 1975 and now.

fucking lol at your stupidity, this your country, how can you be so ignorant, to the point of litteraly handing me a stick to beat

Now, for the actaul reasons. A guy named Reagan deregulated like a mad man, and gave you present day situation
>be construction company
>invest X millions in prison building
>X more millions in corrupting officials (sorry lobbying is the burger word I think)
>officials make sure your prisons are full
>you know have a workforce cheaper than chinese and with no labor rights whatsoever, bang in the land of the free
>profit
>retarded population sings the anthem and rejoices about how free and democratic their country is
>double profit

funny how you manage to pick the finer points (should we be allowed to use slurs?) while totally avoiding the main point

Talk to me about incarceration rate, come on, bitch, don't be shy, you know I'm rough, but it's for your own good

Mon ami, are you autistic? The user you're responding too has said nothing about the large prison population being due to noggs. He's just said that the US prison population is besides the point of the thread. We're discussing freedom of speech and expression here, not prison systems. I, for one, totally agree that our prison system is out of control, but this really isn't the thread for you to argue about it.

>double profit
kek what am I laughing so hard?

it is exactly the thread
facade freedom is systemtically used to skirt the topic about freedom, freedom of speech is not some totally isolated topic from freedom

You are allowed to not like someone, not to use slurs that infer their inferiroity, slurs directly linked to an installed official system that restricted actual freedom of said population

Saying a word is just a word is burrying your head in the sand. A word is the manifestation of a system of thought and values. Prohibiting the existence of the systems of value in the public space is in no way a restriction of freedom, it is protecting freedom, which said system of thought/doctrines wnat to restrict to chosen groups

>talk about incarceration rate in the US
>answers with gif oflitle girl waving black doll
>said nothing about the large prison population being due to noggs

come on now

You shouldn't smoke so much weed, you are not making sense.

So that copypasta finally ended up on leddit, huh.

If Americans are allowed to hate black people and don't get treated worse for that then why do "hate crimes" exist in American law?
In Germany there is no differentiation between "normal" murder and "murder because racist", people don't get an even harsher punishment for hating an ethnicity while committing a crime.

The webm and the girl's reaction were meant to convey the reaction to your post and your whataboutism.

be more precise
are you saying
nigger isn't explicitely linked to the segregation, and slavery before that?
are you saying people who complain they are forbidden to use the word (which bay the way is blatantely false, you are forbidden to use as an epithet, but using the word in a debate is fine, whatever your color) are not people who do think balcks are inferior to whites?
Are you saying freedom of speech means anyone can say anything anytime anywhere?

I'm sure it was
Admitting, here's the answer framed another way

"Freedom of speech in the US is a purely rethorical concept which has nothing to do with the actual notion of freedom"

Is that better?
If not, you can't possibly defend the idea of debating freedom without talking about incarceration rates

>facade freedom is systematically used to skirt the topic about freedom
Whether or not that is true is still irrelevant to the discussion of the values of freedom of speech.
>you are not allowed to use slurs that infer inferiority, slurs directly linked to an installed official system that restricted actual freedom of said population
Why not? Saying the word does not restrict freedom. You don't seem to be able to seperate actions from words very well.
>a word is a manifestation of a system of thoughts and values
Agreed
>prohibiting the existence of the systems of value in a public space is by no way restricting freedom
It actually is. If I want to say something, and I am not allowed to say it, then on the most basic level, yes, my freedom is being restricted.
>it is protecting freedom, which said system/doctrine want to restrict to chosen groups.
Your argument rests on whether or not the expression of these doctrines in a public space will lead to people actually losing their rights, which is doubtful at best. As i've said, hate groups in the US do not hold a lot of power, and never will: they have already reached their high water mark, in fact. Hate speech laws outside of narrow bans on inciting violence merely serve as a jumping off point for people to deny you the right to say what you want because they deem it "dangerous". Me saying "nigger" in public does not lead to violence.
>if americans are allowed to hate black people why do hate crimes exist
Well, because you are allowed to hate black people as much as you want as well as express said hatred, so long as you aren't actively targeting black people for violence.
>are you saying that people who use the word as an epithet are not people who think blacks are inferior to whites?
Its possible, yes.
>are you saying freedom of speech means you can say anything anytime anywhere
Yes, it does.

Furthermore, the idea that we are able to express ourselves however we want in the public forum is essential to changing people's minds. In the absence of freedom of speech, stuff like racial supremacy is simply driven underground to fester, where we can't argue against it or even see who believes in it. Its impossible to change someone's mind if you never talk with them about their beliefs. We can't eradicate the idea of racism, but we can certainly argue with its proponents and convince them of the error of their ways, lest they turn to violent underground movements.

>are you saying people who complain they are forbidden to use the word are not people who do think balcks are inferior to whites?
I say nigger without being racist. I use it to describe the trash of the black race. Spics are the trash of the hispanic ethnicities. White trash are the trash of the white race (if there was a better, harsh sounding word, I would use it).

>Free speech is only wanted by people who want to say nigger
>Blacks do not commit crime at a higher rate than whites

So no, incarceration rate has fuck all to do with freedom of speech as a concept, get a fucking grip man.

>are you saying freedom of speech means you can say anything anytime anywhere
Yes, it does.
so why don't we have full blow nazis, pedophiles, etc... ranting everywhere on TV? I mean they can just say what they want can't they? Can I walk in a Jewish funeral and say "one less kike, the rest of you lot to go?"

This is whisful thinking and oversimplifying, freedom is not some monolithic absolute truth, there is no absolute freedom, the very fact of living in groups is a restriction on the individual's freedom

If I can say anything I can say you can't say anything?

>As i've said, hate groups in the US do not hold a lot of power, and never will: they have already reached their high water mark, in fact.

prceisely because they are forbidden public platforms, before that they were powerful (openly KKK senators, the obvius nazis) and yes this kind of speech in the public space leads to action, and restriction of liberty if these actions are undertaken by a group powerful enough.
It is the litteral nature of political doctrine and speech to rouse to action

>are you saying that people who use the word as an epithet are not people who think blacks are inferior to whites?
>Its possible, yes.

>Its possible, yes.
pic related, come on now

>White trash are the trash of the white race (if there was a better, harsh sounding word, I would use it).
Slavs

>this thread
How do we save France

>so why don't we have full blown nazis, pedophiles, etc... ranting everywhere on TV?
We don't really have that very often in the US, the examples of that happening just stick out more in your mind due to response bias.
>Can I walk into a jewish funeral and say "one less kike, the rest of you lot to go?"
Not really, funeral services are generally closed to the public.
>presicely because they are forbidden in public forums
Not at all, the rare times that these groups do come together in the US now they are generally allowed to do their demonstrations, so long as it does not turn violent.
>before that they were powerful
lol at its height the KKK had like 2 senators
>and yes that kind of speech in public leads to action
Not neccesarily, no.
>and restriction of liberty if the group is powerful enough
good thing that no such groups exist in the US currently, or could exist in the near or far future.

associating the prohibition of words such as niggers to a restriction of free speech comes from people who want to say nigger, litteraly, people who don't miss the word don't give a shit

balcks commit crimes at a higher rate,yes, but that doesn't mean it becomes acceptable to call any black a nigger anywhere anytime

incarceration rate, freedom of speech and freedom are one topic, clipping them from one another to make a point is over simplifying.

>global warming has nothing to do with petrol consortium regulation
>Net neutrality has nothing to do with private influence on public policies

Just because two concepts are directly tied doesn't mean they have no influence on one another whatsover

>comes from people who want to say nigger
Okay?
>they are one topic
petrol consortium regulation actually has to do with limiting global warming, and the idea of net neutrality is couched in the belief that private influences cannot determine public policies. Your argument, from what I can tell, is that freedom of speech is used by americans to justify their prison system, which is just downright inane. Having a fucked up prison system does not mean we can't have the right to freedom of speech and expression.

>so why don't we have full blown nazis, pedophiles, etc... ranting everywhere on TV?
>We don't really have that very often in the US, the examples of that happening just stick out more in your mind due to response bias.

jesus fuck, it's precisely what I'm saying, you don't have it precisely because there are restrictions on what you can and cannot say

>lol at its height the KKK had like 2 senators
that is already way more than acceptable for a group advocating and conducting lynchings

>and yes that kind of speech in public leads to action
>Not neccesarily, no.
that is bad faith, the only reason to hold such speech is get enough people on board to enact the ideas. Or are you saying people just want to say it, but would back off as soon as the most radical elements act accordingly to the "purely theoratical" speeches? where's the problem then? you are allowed to yell kike nigger in your living room, why isn't that enough freedom of speech if there is absolutely no intent on action?

>your cuntry sucks!
>actually it's your country that sucks and I have data that proves it
>AD HOM-- I MEAN STRAWM-- I MEAN CUC-- I MEAN *checks Sup Forums newsletter of meme words* WHATABOUTISM!

>you don't have it precisely because there are restrictions on what you can and cannot say
Oh, please, do enlighten me on the specifics of my own countries laws. Because there actually aren't any saying that I can't go into public and say "nigger" as much as I want.
>that is bad faith, the only reason is to get people to commit actions
Specifically, how does saying that you hate niggers imply that everybody should start lynching them? In the united states, specific calls to violence are illegal, whereas saying racial slurs is not. You are allowed to yell "kike nigger" in public as well, because there is still no intent on action there.

Freedom of speech and incarceration are indeed subtopics of freedom - but freedom of speech is not a subset of incarceration. In the same way that coal plant regulations have nothing to do with petrol regulations. In this trhead we are talking about freedom of speech, not general freedom.

Sup Forumstards should be rounded up and shot.

>freedom of speech is used by americans to justify their prison system
never said that, I said that on the right to wear a swastika t-shirt or call someone a nigger is falsely presented as freedom of speech, while it is speech that specifically furthers ideas aimed at restricting freedom.
and that debate on the topic of freedom speech requires to debate about the meaning of freedom, which cannot be done without looking at the litteral numbers of people free or not, as in jailed or not

>Oh, please, do enlighten me on the specifics of my own countries laws.
>whole thread is based on the premise of an american enlightening europeans about european law

Let them die under their new found Bolshevik Revolution 2.0

The will pay the price for communism and die horrible deaths in 20ish years tops.

>you don't have it precisely because there are restrictions on what you can and cannot say
Oh, please, do enlighten me on the specifics of my own countries laws. Because there actually aren't any saying that I can't go into public and say "nigger" as much as I want.

somehow, everyone I'm talking to in this thread thinks you can't and that's why they're bitching about freedom of speech
Make up your mind

You are so fucking intellectually dishonest.

>Right to hate speech should be protected

No, you daft cunt, user is illustrating that the very concept of "freedom" Americans claim to value is entirely false and thus such "freedoms" granted by this system to specific areas, be it speech, association, protest, etc. are fundamentally not free and the freedom you claim to have is meaningless at best, downright slavery at its worse. In fact, all one has to do it observe the famous "American Dream" in order to understand how this false sense of freedom is nothing more than entrapment by the true benefactors of the system, which is not the people.
Your prison and legal system is a natural response to the American concept of "freedom".

You don't get it because the architects of your society have successfully made the people hold their chains in the air and feel blessed to be a slave.

>Right to hate speech shouldn't be protected

>reddit
Nah, they actually are that retarded.
Show me dat Khmer flag.

Fuck yeah.
Who else /tourist/ here?

But that is still besides the fucking point, even if i granted you that everything you said is true: The freedom to say anything you want without fear of government intervention is STILL a freedom - one that europeans don't have.

Or are you suggesting that the USA should adopt the european system where you put people in jail for saying "nigger" or "kike", or saying "islam is shit", thus increasing the prison population even more? Calling him a "daft cunt" would be an actionable offense on its own.

>such "freedoms" granted by this system to specific areas, be it speech, association, protest, etc. are fundamentally not free

No, that is just not the case. You may pay a price for them, but fundamentally, the concepts ARE free. That americans choose to go along with stupid policies because of "muh freedom" may be right - but is still fucking besides the point. The point was: Freedom of speech is good; restricted speech is bad, discuss. Our friend from the netherlands is just trying to rile up the bad american, because america is responsible for all the evil in the world or he has no gf or whatever the fuck.

There is so much free specch in France that is is illegal to gather ethnic data. Not just prohibited by the law, but forbiden by our very constitution. It is a fundamental basis of our current form of gouvernment. At the very essence of our country, there is lie and hiding.

Get that amerifat !

Really the incarceration rate is due to a combination of factors. A shitty school system starts it off. Lack of social services prevent people from rising out of poverty, and excessive criminalization of drugs and small offenses by minors lands young people in jail. Lack of rehabilitation and training in jail means they're unprepared to re-enter society, and discrimination in hiring criminals means that they're unlikely to get a job when they get out. They use the connections they make in prison to make money the ways available to them: crime. Then they're right back in prison again. Repeat a couple times and with the "three strikes" system they're in prison for life. Of course, having so many idle hands is a massive waste of money, but the 14th amendment says that slavery as part of punishment for a crime isnt illegal. So they use them to stamp license plates, or auction their labor off.

Basically, the US Justice system is quite fucked, like many other systems in the US. This doesn't relate much to freedom of speech, as the race-baiting that led to enslaving black people through the Justice system would have been largely legal in Europe. They didn't have to call for a "Racial Holy War", it was enough to print real crime stories, demonize drug use, and go on about "super predators".

A holiday in Cambodia?
Dont forget to pack a wife

Same reason why americans are so fat.

I really hate the hate crime laws. Just give the same punishment for the same crime. Sure judge each on an individual basis, but don't make it really painful to target one group and not another. I dislike how it encourages any crime or offense committed against a non-white
to automatically be thought of as a hate crime. There's plenty of other reasons to dislike someone. Not everything is about race.

>I said that on the right to wear a swastika t-shirt or call someone a nigger is falsely presented as freedom of speech


It is freedom of expression. And then you're free to tell the person they're disgusting, rude trash. I live around these types. I'd much rather they be dumb and advertise how shit they are upfront than to be unsure of who they are because they're too scared of legal consequences.

>but that doesn't mean it becomes acceptable to call any black a nigger anywhere anytime

Not socially, but it is legally.


Don't know what other shit you're talking about with the American user, don't care. I just care about the freedom of speech issue. It's one of the only freedoms we have that most people here agree on, so if that guy's some asshole conservative, don't be thinking this is a politically split issue between our right and left

>america
>freedom

at least you didn't get shot

>listening to women talking about politics

>It's not just US Americans that hold free speech in such high regard, is it?

It is. But even in America half the population believes the lying press.