Where does the "George W. Bush caused the formation of ISIS" meme come from, and is it true or not?

Where does the "George W. Bush caused the formation of ISIS" meme come from, and is it true or not?

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The fact that he cause the formation of ISIS.
It is.

If George W Bush is the father of ISIS, Hillary Clinton is its mother.

but how is he responsible?

Because ISIS was directly caused by the Iraq War. The US invaded Iraq and a minor Jordanian jihadi group was able to enter the country and establish itself in the security vacuum and insurgency as Al-Qaeda in Iraq. After we left, they slowly fought their way back until they became ISIS. They would ahve never amounted to anything if the US hadn't invaded and Saddam remained in power.

Because he caused it.

Iraq

George W. Bush is just a surrogate of Neo-Cohens. He acts as a lightning rod for them.

Before war in terror i dont remember terrorism in the west

Circular reasoning
haha
So the Iraq War is to blame? ISIS doesn't have responsibility for their own actions?

1993 World Trade Center attack.

ISIS were guerrillas who learned how to fight in Iraq
but Obama was the one whose moronic belief in jihadist's "credibility" as "freedumb fighters" and gave them the full support of the Pentagon and CIA and actively hinders attempts to kill his fucking terrorist pets.

the last 15 years of dumbass, jew-profiting neocon policy from Obama AND Dubbya created ISIL.

How many dead?

>So the Iraq War is to blame? ISIS doesn't have responsibility for their own actions?

Top kek

Deaths: 6
Non-fatal injuries: 1,042

/thread

Saddam was a dick but at least he provided stability for the region.
Bush can't be the only one to blame, though. Hillary was the biggest advocate for it outside of the Administration.

ISIS came together after Bush de-Bathatized the Iraqi State. They are made up of former military and security personel.

To hell with you cheese eating surrender monkeys. I am going to enjoy my freedom fries, freedom toast, and freedom kiss my girlfriend who is wearing a freedom cut bathing suit.

It happened occasionally but not to its current scale i.e. it's now considered a success if Europe goes one fucking day without a terrorist attack

Obama created isis. He talks about training them orginally and now all of a sudden they are the enemy.

Hilary also helped form them.

Bush is responcable for setting up the senior and environment for isis and all other terrorist groups to emerge from.

The bushes, clintons, and Obama along with every other nwo membe work together.

IGNORE THIS FUCKING SHILL SLIDE THREAD, GET THE FUCK IN HERE

REEEEEEEE EDITION

IS are former Iraqi army and Baathists (except for the peons)

So, yeah

Let's do this in sequence:

1) 13 years ago US invades Iraq and knocks out their (admittedly shitty tinpot dictatorship) government in a war of aggression based on false pretense. Lots of civilian casualties, we carpet bombed their population centers.

2) Children of that time grow up resenting US for attacking them

3) We leave Iraq a few years ago while not putting any real power structure in place, effectively blowing it to shit and letting it fall into a power vacuum

4) Islamic extremists come into the vacuum and recruit the children of war (now angry young adults) to their cause, vowing a crusade against the west

5) Yurop pays in the long run for US fake oil war to stop the terrorists that ended up actually making 1,000 times as many terrorists as there were at the beginning

The US forces and by extension the fledgeling iraqi military were bound by the rules of engagement during the surge. Furthermore, during this time the US military came to the conclusion that these militia tribesmen were fighting for money and not for any national ideals. The solution was to start paying the sunni militias at about twice the rate they had previously received. This created an extra-legal military force dubbed "the son's of iraq." Apparently, a lot of the advances made during the surge were due to their use. Fast forward to when the current administration handed control of iraq's military back to the iraqi government. Predictably, the shia government wasn't ready to keep footing the bill for sunni militia fighters, so then there was a large amount of unemployed but experienced footsoldiers. Subsequently, while this was happening no members of Saddam's former Baathist party could hold office or military rank, and Syria is falling apart. Some former members of what was the Baathist version of the KGB start their own group in Syria, but don't gain much traction over there as other than a small group until they took hold of a large group of combat experienced foot soldiers recently unemployed in Iraq. This became ISIS and partially explains why iraqi security forces initially deserted in front of their advances since these foot soldiers had a reputation as some of the hardest hitting local troops of the iraqi war. Thusly, policies enacted during the Bush administration laid the groundwork for the creation of ISIS, but it must be noted that the weak hand-off to the Iraqi government by the current administration is what allowed it to flourish as fast as it did.

G W B turned iraq into a lawless zone. So naturally a gang formed out of people with military skills who used their strength to capture territory and demand taxes+resources. The gang also happened to have a retarded ideology.

Gang would never have gained any real power if there were police/army to kick their ass or even a basic government that people would rather be loyal to over gang.

ISIS was originally the Iraqi branch of Al Qaeda. Taking down Saddam created a power vacuum and they stepped up. So yes Bush is ultimately responsible.

In other words, The Iraq War provoked them, and ISIS formed through a power vacuum after Sadam was killed?

Either way, what can we do about ISIS/muslim terrorism now? Nuke the Middle East and turn it into glass?

Bush planted the seed.

Obama and Hillary watered it.

Also, to all the ones saying the Iraq War caused ISIS, what should the USA have done in retaliation to the 9/11 attacks? Was the Afghanistan War justified?

we can physically take down ISIS as a physical entity but we'll never get rid of their inspired attacks.

t. fox news sophomoric political (((((scientist)))))

Afghanistan was necessary.

>Destroy secular leader in middle east, have absolutely no fucking idea what you're doing afterwards. Sectarian violence, power vacuum, withdrawal date planned, instability exacerbated. Later have the whole post-withdrawal blamed on Obama by mouthbreathing republicucks/pol despite the date being planned by Bush.

That's simplified, but basically yes.

And no, nuclear genocide is not a logical option because it has too much baggage and would also cause mostly civilian casualties, which is exactly the spark that triggered all the angry young men to join ISIS in the first place. If you nuked the ME, you'd instantly have massive (honestly justified) riots of Muslim people already in the west trying to fight for the survival of their culture.

ISIS, right now, is one of many Islamic extremist groups funded by the Saudis - it's an open secret that Saudi Arabia fuels pretty much all the major Sunni terrorist organizations while simultaneously putting a pleasant face up towards the west. A lot of people don't realize this, but the Sunni extremist groups are all specifically Wahabbists; it's a branch of Sunni Islam separate from the mainstream that gathered steam in the 1900's (think Seventh Day Adventists), and it's the type of Islam supported by the Saudi government. Basically, if you want this to stop, the Saudi leadership has to go. BUT, if you do it aggressively without support in the region, you risk making a group even worse than ISIS. The short of it is that the US and Europe need to make nice with Russia and Iran, cut out giving arms and money to """moderate""" rebels, and start fostering a coalition in opposition to Saudi Arabia in the region.

>what should the USA have done in retaliation to the 9/11 attacks?

Had literally nothing to do with Iraq.

If you genuinely gave a fuck you would have smashed the Saudis to pieces but you have (((vested interests))) not to.

remove kebab then?

You know Obama could have changed the date right?

You mouth-breathing retard Iraq had 0% to do with 9/11, the "weapons of mass destruction" thing was made up by the Bush administration as an excuse to invade and fuck shit up to get sweet ca$h for the arms companies, of which multiple board members sat on his fucking cabinet.

Regarding Afghanistan, our goal was (supposedly) to get Bin Laden. In which case it would've made more sense to plan a more secretive special operation with the intent to find and assassinate him, rather than invade the fucking country with a full-scale ground army to find a single dude.

It really goes back further than Dubya. During the Cold War in the 80s the CIA funded and trained Afghani forces to fight against the Russians. That's where Bin Laden arose. He was considered a US ally at the time. Same shit, different decade.

Legit bush is voting for shillary. Just so you kno

he started the war thats true but obama left the country and left a power vacuum

Invade Afghanistan and catch Osama.
Iraq had no ties to 911. I'm rather suprised you don't know that. I always assumed that Americans are dumb was a meme

>You mouth-breathing retard Iraq had 0% to do with 9/11, the "weapons of mass destruction"
lol

>before war on terror, terror in west didn't exist
So we created terrorism to make a war on terrorism?
Do you put you underwear on after your pants?

You believe Iraq had something to do with 911?

Kek Saddam Hussein hated terrorists and he was one of their enemy in the region. The iraq war has nothing to do with 9/11

>You mouth-breathing retard Iraq had 0% to do with 9/11
Dude I know, but Jacques Pierre here says The Iraq War instigated all the terrorist chimpouts we've seen since, and 9/11 was before Iraq. Who started it first? And again, what should the USA have done in response to 9/11? Was the Afghani War justified?

His fear mongering and islamaphobia [plus Israel, the Obama administration, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and other kike'd countries supporting them financially] singlehandedly lead to the creation of ISIS. Dont you forge that.

#lovetrumpshate
#notallmuslims
#religionofpeace
#isolatedincident
#refugeeswelcome

if you kill them, they win

>endorse and support radical islam
>fight the enemies of radical islam
>wonder why radical islam grows

dammit, and the USSR was our ally before the Cold War. (((The US Government))) sure knows how to pick them.

I could have sworn that jihadis have been terrorizing each other and western civilization for thousands of years but I guess none of that could possibly explain why there's a group of modern jihadis who call themselves ISIS committing acts of violence in the name of islam

>What should the US do?
Gtfo. We are not good at winning guerrilla wars. Let russia handle it. They understand the propaganda that is necessary to accompany the explosions. We just think we need more explosions. Obama already tried to do this. His great switch to asia was smart. We have huge navy and actual non saudiarbia/isreal tier "allies " in the region. Besides india china japan and Korea are both way more powerful countries and influencing them is much more productive than deposing the newest wanna be Mohammad.

>What should the world do?
This is going to sound crazy, but they need to take more refugees. It will suck short term, but public school is a hell of a propaganda tool. 3 generations from now they will be just as European as everyone else. They will still be "Muslim" in the completely irreligious way many Europeans are "christian". Their last bit of sentimentality with Muslims will be used to influence governments in Europe to stop bombing Muslims and then they will be very involved in humanitarian causes in middle east. Most of these causes will be very anti-islam such as womens rights and lgbt rights. Essentially they will become propagandized by European culture and then will attempt to spread it to the middle east.

Sorry if this doesnt feel good, but its the only way out of this mess.

It's a shame it took 10 years to finally kill him.

The argument goes that it's a result of the destabilisation from Iraq 2. Which is bull shit, ISIS exists because Obama pulled out of Iraq if Americans were still there then ISIS would have never existed.

No lol

I lived in the US in 2003 and this is what every american believed at the time.

>i wasnt born yet so it didnt happen
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_France

Bush broke the system in Iraq, Obama and Clinton pulled out of Iraq too early and aided "freedom fighters" who would obviously become terrorists once we were no longer backing them.

I actually did know that. I was referring to the Frenchman who said there was virtually no terrorist attacks before the Iraq War, but the 1993 and 2001 WTC attacks were, so how can one say that the USA threw the first stone?

based burger bro.

>bush starts iraq war
>troop deployment drags on exponentially longer than planned, occupation is a disaster
>deficit through the roof (while filling cheney's pockets via "no bid" contracts)
>obama takes office, fulfills promise of pulling troops out of iraq

>FUCKING OBAMA

Right, but ISIS had existed for several years by that point.

And he was bound by international agreement to leave the country. An agreement BUSH signed.

Bush destabilized Iraq, flooded the country with weapons, and many of ISIS' officers are displaced Baathists

it's not hard to put two and two together, dipshits

>I could have sworn that jihadis have been terrorizing each other and western civilization for thousands of years but I guess none of that could possibly explain why there's a group of modern jihadis who call themselves ISIS committing acts of violence in the name of islam

Another based burger bro. This is my point!

>take more refugees

Integration of Muslims has already proven to be unsuccessful in European countries. We have countless examples showing us so, from radicalized youth that are 2nd or 3rd generation (Belgium, France, Germany, Netherlands, Sweden etc), enforcing cultural principles, only present in the Muslim community, in foreign European nations (laws for Minarets, welfare programs - housing, food, tuition, cash -, changing the political and social background wherever they go)....

Honestly, I can go on and on and on and on. The sandniggers are always demanding more rights, more privileges, more welfare etc from all the European nations. They then go on about talking in their language, segregating away from the rest of the society, destroying landscapes and so forth. Why, may I ask, can other cultures sucessfully integrate in the European union, yet they can't?

>inb4 it's not the same thing the americans are experiencing with actual niggers.

how can anyone be this dumb?

doubles confirm that he's dumb

This thread.. dear god.. sure is underage in here

By taking out Saddam he destabilized the whole region.

Yes, that's what happened.

To end them now, we need to crush them between Assad / Russia / Iran in the west and Iraq / Iran / America in the east.

This won't fix the terrorism problem, though, since terrorists don't rely on orders from their command structure and don't need a geographic center.

It works, but treat them as equals, dipshits.
Ask 15% Muslim Russia.
They are supposed to be assimilating, not averaging the 'culture'.

ISIS is the logical eventuality of the islamic faith. Removing Saddam sped it up but it would happen eventually anyway.

So by extrapolation, if Obama never pulled troops out, and Coalition forces still numbered over 100k in a country the size of New York, the entire region would still be stable and happy?

There cant be a power vacuum causing stability problems if there is a highly stable, highly powerful force correct?

I disagree with your second statement.

Turn the NSA lose and basically isolate the entire middle east from the internet. Massive cyber warfare meaning the most technologically advanced item they have left is a TV.

Without the internet and general media ISIS would have been no different than the hoodlums running around Sadr City

>the entire region would still be stable and happy?
No, it would be a fucking shithole. You know how those sunni terrorrist got thir recruits? By spreading propaganda that the crusaders (americans) where occupiyng their lands.

>There cant be a power vacuum
Who caused the power vaccum?

Oh my, it tottaly wasn't the americans when they housted Saddam from power and completely obliterated the iraqi army

>Where does the "George W. Bush caused the formation of ISIS" meme come from, and is it true or not?
Because Saddam was a dick, but so are countless other people the US has perfectly good relations with.
/thread

The Agreement you mention is not an international agreement, it was a land lease between the US and Iraq. The US tried to extend it but Iraq wanted not only more money, but to give up parts of its military duty over its own territory. The US refused, so we left.

Easy answer, tell Iraq to go fuck itself, we are staying. What are you going to do? Attack a US air base with your blown apart 40 year old Soviet jets? Didnt think so

We could go back to Jimmy Carter with this. It comes mostly from Hillary Clinton from when she was Secretary of State. Bush is also to blame. Trump is and was against all that shit.

Other than the US embassy hostage situation (which was a big deal at the time) in the late 70s and a few other incidents here and there, terrorists seemed to restrict themselves to airline hijackings.

So much has changed. In the late 80s I dressed as a terrorist for Halloween, ski mask, realistic plastic Uzi, the whole get up. Not a one person batted a fucking eye.

Destabilising the region with wars and drones. Funding and training "moderate rebels"

In fairness Obama has continued the same policies and really more so. So they're both to blame

>Bush
>Overthrows one country and its leader
>Obama
>Overthrows 3 countries and their leaders
>Currently trying to overthrow the government and leader of Syria
>Bush did ISIS

ebin

> retaliation to the 9/11 attacks

I now, it's better we invade completely unrelated countries, where thousands and thousands more americans will die, just to satiate redneck bloodlust, who didn't fought in the war regardless.

Ebin, american logic never fails to surprise me

It's just Obama and his people blaming everything they did on Bush.

The vacuum that Obama left by surrendering Iraq completely, coupled with the Syrian Civil War, spawned ISIS.

And Hillary ran Libyan arms to Syria through Benghazi, effectively arming ISIS.

>What is a SOFA, the post.

>bush dindu nuffin

ebin

It's not sated.

It's rising.

Bush wrecked an entire country.

Obama has done it to four.

But the Dems and Obongo still blame Bush for everything.

>back to Jimmy Carter

this. al qaida is a direct descendant of the mujahideen.

>inb4 it's not the same thing the americans are experiencing with actual niggers.

That is actually a very bad analogy. I am just going to assume your not familiar with american history and not hold it against the rest of your argument.

>Integration of Muslims has already proven to be unsuccessful in European countries. We have countless examples showing us so, from radicalized youth that are 2nd or 3rd generation (Belgium, France, Germany, Netherlands, Sweden etc), enforcing cultural principles, only present in the Muslim community, in foreign European nations (laws for Minarets, welfare programs - housing, food, tuition, cash -, changing the political and social background wherever they go)....

I didnt say it was going to be painless. But it is the least shitty way out of a shit situation. European culture will dominate islamic culture easily. Especially since it will be near illegal to maintain contact with the cultural institutions of the middle east from Europe. If you had any understanding of islamic communities you would know that their number one problem is the defection of young people from the faith. And their second problem is rise of "modern" islam which is weaksauce liberal version. Guess who gets all the government money and assistance. Its not the hardcore retards, its the feel good lets build a community center liberal muslims.

Look at all the laws that european countries have passed against islamic traditions. Its not like were just letting islam re-write rules of society. They will integrate just fine and through their integration europe will bring peace to the middle east.

>hostage crisis was terrorism
>not america overreacting to why it happend cuz murica' is such a Gud Boi

Here is the first step to moving Islam forward.

Remove Sunni Wahhabism from the planet.

Next remove Sunni's from the planet.

Maybe then Islam will be compatible with the rest of the world.

Bush started the shitfest. He completely threw the region out of balance, and jihadi organizations sweled their ranks after afghanistan nad iraq invasion. Wether how much you try not to, Bush was the main responsible for the shithole MENA is today.

Although i aggre that Obama did little to improve

Islamic countries are only stable when they have a brutal dictator.

Culturally the people prefer a certain level of self rule with religion at the core, they only bow down to authority when their knee is forced.

So you have this tyrannical dictators keeping shit in line, like Saddam, because Iraq is full of people who will only listen by force.

Well Saddam gets the axe because of all sorts of reasons, mainly because he tried escaping the USD value system, and is replaced with a weak democratic replacement.

These people don't bend to weak pussy western plants, and so they see an opening for self rule again and create another Islamic terrorist group.

ISIS was established in 1999. To actually gain momentum, ISIS required a power vacuum. George W Bush removed the strongman from office in Iraq. Barack Obama removed most US presence from Iraq. Together, these choices created a power vacuum. ISIS was able to spread into Syria due to the civil war initiated by Hillary Clinton.

>leave the Catholicism of Islam
Topkek how do I know you're an Iranian mongrel.

This tbqh you don't rule alphas with beta cuck shit leave to the west.

I didn't say leave. I said remove it. Wahhabism is the core to modern terrorism.

>UK flag
>Not just another Paki

I want Islam removed in general. And the best way to accomplish that is to import the same trends that are killing of religion in the west to their countries. If we can even weaken islam a small amount then governments like saudi arabia would be happy to tell the clerics to fuck off so they can rule without interference.

The leader of ISIS was running his branch of operatives long before they were called ISIS anyway. They've existed since the 90s.