Audiences yearn for actually heroic characters in this age where every hack writer thinks he's being subversive and...

>Audiences yearn for actually heroic characters in this age where every hack writer thinks he's being subversive and original by writing another anti-hero or making the twist that the good guy is the villain
>Nah's let's just keep doing the same thing we've been doing for close to 30 years over which coincidentally our sales have dangerously decline

They do this shit so much with Superman that I think subversive asshole Superman is basically the default at this point.

Capeshit is the cancer killing comics. Until they die nothing original or creative will happen.
These characters are 60+ years old, I think it's time for them to be retired.

>Until they die nothing original or creative will happen.

New, original and creative things come out every week. Why don't YOU look past the big two and open something good, leave the big two to the kiddies.

On the contrary, it is capeshit what's keeping these hack writers employed. Marvel without the MCU would have been relegated to a minor comic publishing housing. But it is through capeshit that kids now care more for fucking Captain America and Iron Man than Superman.

Literally what? When has the actual Superman ever turned out to be "evil" or anything close to op?

Whenever there's red kryptonite, The Dark Night Strikes Again too I think.

So when does the reveal happen that he was deep cover to root out the real remaining hydra agents and stop the big bad?
Cause we all know it's coming.

Superheros are the only fucking good constant in comics. Shut the fuck up you edgy contrarian bitch!

Remember when Tom Taylor's son asked him if Superman was evil now because he was writing both Injustice and Earth-2?

In two years time and by then I expect Spencer to shit so much upon Cap's run that the only good Cap will turn out to be the one from the MCU.

The reveal is that Red Skull used his Professor Xavier powers to alter Steve's memories. It's clear from the issue. All the red parts in the flashbacks are made up.

No? Injustice is like the only time it's happened in years.

For the life of me I have no idea why faggots are getting this fucking worked up over this shit. I mean red skull has prof x mind powers now and we've seen him use them to change people already. Like why the fuck would you get upset over this like it won't be undone in a few months anyway.

I like (most) capes. But not how they have a chokehold on the American comic industry.
An entire medium should not be dominated by one genre with everything else labeled as indie.
It would be like if all films were romantic comedies, with any other genre relegated to art-house theaters.

user, plenty of original and creative stuff is happening and they wouldn't be happening if it weren't for the Big 2.

Writers and artists get gigs and the Big 2 to get their name out there, then they use the money and fanbase they got from it to make Image books. Its your own fault if you're too stupid to read non-Big 2 comics.

Because the people getting upset don't read comics.

It was a plottwist that no one needed and goes against everything Cap did in the canon continuity. Because they released this right after Civil War to trail onto it and is clearly a cashgrabbing stunt from the shocked audiences and lastly, because Hydra was created as a stand-in to the Nazi party in the 40s. The comic was shit and knowing Nick's Spencer work thus far, it is going to be a steaming pile of shit.

Less "Superman was evil all along" and more "Superman becomes evil or is just in general a colossal asshole"

It's not that outlandish, Red Skull has Xavier mindrape powers. People get brainwashed all the time, it's stupid but it's not like it's completely bullshit.

Except they have said it's not brainwash, that this is Steve Rodgers and this is the way it has been all along.

Cosmic Cube

>Hydra was created as a stand-in to the Nazi party in the 40s
No it wasn't.

How does it go against everything Cap did in the canon continuity when they fake memories were only RECENTLY put in there? Also Spencer wrote Superior Foes of Spider-man, which was fantastic, and Assault on Pleasant Hill which was one of the very few actually good Marvel events/crossovers. All of his other books range from mediocre to good. Name a single comic he's written that's be a "steaming pile of shit."

You sound like yet another moviefag pretending to know what the fuck they're talking about so they can get in on the hot new OUTRAGE! How 'bout you go back to twitter, facebook, Sup Forums, or tumblr and don't come back until you actually start reading the comics you insist on raging about.

Oh well if THEY said it then it must be true. Just like the time THEY said SpOck was permanent and Ross wasn't the Red Hulk.

You're getting rused by their wording. Changing his memories to the point where he is still in his right mind but believes himself to be Hydra isn't brainwashing.

This is like when you non-comic readers thought "Thor is a woman now" meant that Thor literally was sex changed.

Ross from Friends wasn't the Red Hulk.

>Professor Xavier powers
How the fuck did this even happen?

That must've been seriously awkward

>Except they have said it's not brainwash
Fake memory implants isn't brainwashing. It's a slight distinction, but enough of a distinction that it's a working loophole.

>that this is Steve Rodgers
It's spelled "Rogers." I know it can be hard to tell how names are spelt when you're only used to hearing them be said while watching movies rather than actually reading the name printed out.

>this is the way it has been all along
They never said that.

And even if they did, Marvel has a very long track record of outright lieing in interviews in order to build hype or throw people off. They also said that Superior Spider-man was permanent and Peter Parker was never coming back and lo and behold, guess who came back and was always planned to come back since day one. How about when they kept insisting that Rabum Alal was a new character so people wouldn't guess the Doom reveal.

They WANT people to rage about it and turn it into a big controversy. They're not about to go out and undermine that by saying "don't worry, he's just being mind-controlled and it will only last an arc" because then no one would give a fuck.

Of course it wasn't. Of course you are going to deny that a comic created by two Jewish men in the midst of WW2 and featuring both the Nazi party and even a more extreme version of nazism in the form of Hydra is not real, because hurr durr I can't see past my own nose without telling someone to go back to wherever they came from.

You are being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian and as bad as any claiming "le pol boogeyman". Spencer has been mediocre so far, but whatever, keep sucking his dick if that's what you want. Who the fuck needed Assault on Pleasant Hill other than to shoehorn characters such as the new Ms.Marvel Kamala Khan and Morales Spiderman?

He ate Xavier's brain.

No, you're just a fucking idiot that doesn't even know basic comic history. I bet you also think that Stan Lee created Captain America.

Zenn, pls go back to tumblr and reblog more posts about how white people are terrible

He stole his body from his tomb and implanted the brain in himself...

user, HYDRA was not created in the 40s. That you think that's the case only shows how little you know about even the most basic of comic history.

It still blows my mind people are flabbergasted by the "hero is really a bad guy oh no!" gag. It's comic books. This is a very comic book style swerve and people are genuinely pissy about it. Do people really just want status quo shit that never shakes stuff up for the sake of an interesting story? I mean what next? A to be continued with a hero falling off a mountainous Cliffside.
"Goddamn hacks. How could they just kill off the hero"
"I dunno maybe he'll be show to survive the fall"
"Waugh no he's ruined how could they do this...are you expecting me to believe everything might not be what it seems? If he survives why didn't they reveal that on Twitter thus assuaging my fears and removing any incentive to purchase next months issue?"

>Who the fuck needed Assault on Pleasant Hill other than to shoehorn characters such as the new Ms.Marvel Kamala Khan and Morales Spiderman?
What the fuck are you even talking about? You don't even know what Assault on Pleasant Hill was, do you?

Why is it that its always the people that don't even read comics in the first place that are always the most anally devastated by the shit they "think" happens in comics.

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>Who the fuck needed Assault on Pleasant Hill
The end result of Standoff was the return of the classic Thunderbolts and Steve getting de-aged. These are two things that true comic fans (unlike you) have been clamoring for. I hate how anytime there's a big "controversy" this board gets flooded by casuals who don't know what the flying fuck they're talking about yet insist that they're such big comics fans.

No one gives a fuck about what Chris Evans thinks or not. MCU Steve is completely different as an overall character to comicverse Steve, with the exception of Ultimates Steve.

It was already officially stated not to be mind control.

Spend five seconds on google.

The indies are BOOMING and a lot of it is because of the Big 2 giving indie creators enough work to get their name out there.

And fake memory implants isn't mind control. Not to mention
>falling for Marvel's ruse cruise
Be honest, you've never even visited Sup Forums before this "controversy" blew up, did you? Because guess what Marvel does everytime they create one of these manufactured controversies for the sake of easy publicity.

They lie. Always and without fail.

>>Audiences yearn for quippy characters in comfy, episodic, SoL settings that won't offend them or trigger their delicate sensibilities.

>play as the honest, apple-pie style Captain America in films, really dig the character and what he stands for

>some shmuck writer has the character I play as kill one of his friends and "hail hydra"

i'd be pretty pissed too, Chris is pretty attached to the character.

>everytime they create one of these manufactured controversies
Actually, this one isn't manufactured. Marvel hasn't pushed hard on this one; it's just that its arrival coincided with the existing #GiveCaptainAmericaABoyfriend fad and they clashed.

Who the fuck cares? Steve Rogers in the movies is pretty much UltimateSteve. He has nothing to do with the input of the character other than selling more Halloween Costumes.

what? no he isn't, he's practically "Awe shucks" Old School Steve, like, pre 90's fucking steve.

Ultimate Steve brutally kills people in fits of rage.

It's little wonder that Captain America is now a fascist as America itself slides towards despotism under the GOP.

I'm sure a big fruity gay cap would be great and not at all stupid or contrived.

And doesn't MCU Steve? He's pretty willing to kill Tony for MUHH BUCKAROO BANZAI HUSBANDO in Civil War and just stops when he snaps out of it.

he clearly wasn't going to kill Tony, also "616" WAS going to kill Tony but had to BE stopped.

Of course not, because ramming your shield over and over again over what's basically your pacemaker and the only thing stopping shrapnel near your heart from killing you isn't attempted murder. 616 Steve was going to kill Tony because in the comics Civil War was convoluted as fuck and shat upon all the character interpretations of them so far.

Tony had the Shrapnel removed years ago, you do know this right?

This. So much this. It's like the people complaining about too much capeshit have never gone out of their way to read anything outside of capeshit. Christ, the big thing with Marvel and DC writers now is to make it big for three years or so writing a good arc for a moderately big time hero, then jump ship and write the stuff they want to. The shit spawning outside of capes has actually been pretty good and pretty varied, so let's stop pretending it doesn't exist.

>Steve Rogers in the movies is pretty much UltimateSteve
Not even remotely.

>Actually, this one isn't manufactured
It's cute that you think this. They put out a fucking press release two days before it came out saying how it was going to trigger people and be the most talked about and controversial thing they've done in years. They had interviews lined up before the issue even came out so they could double down on it.

>UltimateSteve.

You don't read a lot of comic books don't you?

where were you when Red Skull became America's savior?

>ITS NOT A HOAX
>ITS NOT A DREAM
>ITS NOT AN IMAGINARY TALE
heard it all before, theres going to be an asspull and the status quo will be back

>Sup Forumscucks needing to find some sort of self-reassurance in their belief system through a fucking comic book
>mfw

get deported faggot

My ancestors were the First Nation in America.

Why don't you go back to Europe?

>audiences want archie

Quiet

Didn´t this guy throw a baby out a window or something?

You dont know anything about anything going on here.

Sure they were, Senator Warren.
Sure they were.

Not really, that only happens in Elseworlds and Red Kryptonite doesn't really count, since the readers know that it's not him being a villain.

That's why Flash is best boy. Barry or Wally, doesn't matter.

>they try to write him as a villain and he sounds more like a good guy
sjws are retarded lmao

No, you're thinking of Ultimate Red Skull.

>Only input an actor has on a comic book character is selling more Halloween costumes
wut

>No one gives a fuck what handsome, A-list actor thinks about character he plays

In what world

>He didn't watch IM3

...well, that IS a little understandable...

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Fuck Off Tumblr

1. 99% of all the people flipping their shit over this don't read comics or at the very least don't buy floppies. The point of a move like this is to rustle jimmies and get people excited about it whether that translates to sales or not. So in a broad sense this move is successful in getting people to at least care.

2. It's obvious that this is either the result of the cosmic cube's influence as hinted at in Sam Wilson Cap #7 or Cap is simply going undercover and it's revealed in a flashback towards the end of the story that his mom never took the flapper up on her invitation to join Hydra.

>marvel then
>marvel now

That applies to DC too.