>Brevoort: I think another good parallel to what's going on right now is pretty clearly "Superior Spider-Man" -- particularly at the outset, where there were plenty of readers who were aghast at the idea that we would kill Peter Parker and Doc Ock would take over his body and be Spider-Man. And then in similar games of telephone, and people not looking at the comics but looking at the reporting on the comics, or what have you, it turns into "Spider-Man is raping Mary Jane, because Mary Jane doesn't know he's Doc Ock, this is terrible, Marvel is promoting non-consensual sex." The story wasn't any of that, and what drove a lot of that was just, people felt so strongly for Peter Parker, and were just afraid that he was going to be gone and ruined forever, and they'd never see him again. Once the storyline was closing, and once it was over, suddenly all these people materialized -- some of them the same people -- who were like, "Wow, that was the greatest thing ever, what a roller coaster ride." Part of it was, they could now feel comfortable to approach the story on its own level, because they didn't have to be worried about the ending -- they knew it would be OK. In essence, this is the argument of, "People want to have spoilers. They want to know how the movie ends." I don't really believe that; I think that's just a facile argument used by people who want to make a buck by spoiling things for other people. But there's some truth to the underlying idea that people can get so emotionally worked up about a story that they're experiencing that they can't actually enjoy it until they know everything turns out OK in the end.
He makes a good point. Why the retards always jump to false conclusions over a single page or cover?
Brevoort: I think another good parallel to what's going on right now is pretty clearly "Superior Spider-Man" --...
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because people like to feel triggered and oppressed which allows them to go on a soap box to make themselves feel better
It better not drag on for 30 fucking issues like Superior did, the fun wore off like half way through
>don't worry, obviously this isn't all there is on the matter, just pay $3.99 every month for the next year to find out why this panel isn't representative of the status quo of Captain America
Obviously a lot of the detractors are fucking idiots, let's not have any disagreement on that OP. Like burning copies of the issue, or making stupid arguents at the creators on twitter. Like, calm down and get a life.
But it's disenguous story-telling to present something serially, but disavow serial reactions to it.
>Spider-Man is raping Mary Jane, because Mary Jane doesn't know he's Doc Ock
That was true though.
>Marvel is promoting non-consensual sex.
Why are people so dumb? Just because a character says it doesn't mean that it's the author's views. Ock was always in the wrong, and nobody reading it should have listened to him.
>Wow, that was the greatest thing ever,
No.
>what a roller coaster ride
youtube.com
He's generally not wrong though. People getting mad at this don't read comics, and they don't understand that comic plotlines don't last forever. The status quo is God.
I guess he did have "non-consensual" sex with Ana Marie.
tl;dr people are going to be have like fucking retards so it is our god given right to exploit them for easy publicity and profit. Now hand over your $3.99 for a shitty, 20 page comic that will become forgotten within a year
Of all the moral high horses to take, "non-consensual sex" is far from the best available
Hold the line at $2.99
>where there were plenty of readers who were aghast at the idea that we would kill Peter Parker and Doc Ock would take over his body and be Spider-Man
Maybe because assholes like Tom Brevoort outright said to the public that that is exactly what they were doing and SpOck was here to stay.
Not since the 90's
DC is setting most of their comics at 2.99
Who fucking cares about all that shit? Where's US Agent?
>He makes a good point. Why the retards always jump to false conclusions over a single page or cover?
maybe if comics moved away from the archaic floppy format and just published trades, we wouldn't have to deal with this clickbait-esque cliffhanger writing.
>But it's disenguous story-telling to present something serially, but disavow serial reactions to it.
Really that's my big gripe.
I know this will all work out via retcon or plot twist or whatever but I still don't like it and Im not gonna pay 4 bucks an issue for 5 to 12 issues for a story I don't like
It's not disavowing serial reactions it's poopooing the knee jerk reactions of people who don't really read the comics or who lack the critical thinking to realize Marvel isn't going to make Captain America a villain forever.
Only a Marvel writer could imply having a parallel with Superior Spider-Man would be a GOOD thing.
Not even superior fans liked it the way it ended. The comic was based entirely on baiting controversy and of course Brevoort would try to make it out as anything else.
This thing with Cap is no different. Marvel should just deal with the negativity they're getting. It sells comics and they were basically asking for it.
No one thinks it's going to last but that doesn't mean they have to like it. Even if it is part of a larger story people can still think that story sucks and not want to pay for it monthly
we don't want to wait a half to full year to see how this shit plays out, we don't want to pay 4 bucks an issue to see how this plays out.
>single issue is all we have to work with
>have no idea what will happen next
>people already throwing hissy fit and won't even considering reading what happens next
How many times did Superman get mind controlled by space frogs and destroy the world?
>suddenly all these people materialized -- some of them the same people -- who were like, "Wow, that was the greatest thing ever
I love how simply because Peter fags were triggered SpOck fags unironically delude themselves into the belief that long-winded tripe has any significance to the Spider-Man mythos.
"The greatest thing ever?" What self-inflated crock.
It's like watching a dog chases its tail.
>It sold, user
Spider-Man selling?! What a scoop!
>Huh, looks like Captain America isn't selling as well as it should... again.
>Time to take a shit down the throats of anyone who enjoys these comics in order to drive up sales
>Yeah, eat it up you fucking cockroaches hahaha!
>Thanks for the cash, you filthy insects.
>Once the storyline was closing, and once it was over, suddenly all these people materialized -- some of them the same people -- who were like, "Wow, that was the greatest thing ever
Is he fucking serious? Even SpOck fans thought the closing arc of that story was shit.
>Story sucks
>FUCKING HISSY FIT BABIES
We don't OWE them support dick brain. They want our money. IF we don't like a story we're gonna say it
Never forget.
Yeah DC, not Marvel. Marvel's prices haven't been that low in a long time; at least not most of it's books
Meanwhile in Cape Japan
at least I can get actual heroes somewhere
I definitely agree with you about knee -jerk reactions. There's no need for these people to be idiots and think we're gonna get 50 years of Cap being a villain now, or have over-reacions about "Omg Cap's a nazi now, so disrespectful".
But it's a reaction I see from Brevoort, and other Big2 editors and writers, time and time again. They want big shocks and surprises, and get on their high horse when both fans and "fans" react poorly. Combine that without direct quotes about outrage being good for sales, and my pessimistic and cynical attitude sees a pattern.
Present something on a month by month basis, and people will react to it, and are allowed to react to it, on a month by month basis. It's unreasonable to expect people to wait for 12 months (and $40 dollars) later to react, even though it will then be in full context. When I see the pilot episode of a TV show, I'll react to it, nobody expects me to wait for the season finale, even if we all agree the show could get better.
The suit was neat though.
It's not going to work. They aren't getting my money.
And likely never will again. Im not having my loyal years of patronage shit on and be thrown under the bus like this. Not without penalty
Still, in the end, one of my favorite villains is now gone forever
>forever
You don't understand comics.
The Joker has more moral high ground than Cap now. Pic related.
You what? Ock is still around.
>I know this will all work out via retcon or plot twist or whatever but I still don't like it and Im not gonna pay 4 bucks an issue for 5 to 12 issues for a story I don't like
This dude basically stated my opinion. It feels stupid to me, I feel like I'm allowed say "this issue I read feels stupid and the twist feels contrived" and things along that line. I'm not gonna read the rest, but I can say how I felt about the first installment, same as the first issue of a tv show, the first movie of a trilogy or whatever. Context of a wider story does matter, but so do individual products. if every story can only be considered in the total context of the entire arc, maybe that's how it should be released.
Better than Peter Parker in every single way.
Anyone got the deusstorage link for standoff: CAp america?
Pretty much everyone working at Marvel needs to be gassed and the last ten years need to be retconned.
>spockfags still exist
>The story wasn't any of that, and what drove a lot of that was just, people felt so strongly for Peter Parker, and were just afraid that he was going to be gone and ruined forever, and they'd never see him again
And whose fault was that, you fat sack of shit?
>Peter Parker fans will sort of fade away over the months and years - Steve Wacker, another fucking editor at Marvel, 2012
They already ruined Peter Parker with One More Day. Spider-Man is just a lifeless husk running around now.
Nick Spencer seems like the happiest guy in comics right now, based on his twitter and interviews.
He's literally in the new Spider-Man comic. His mind is in the robot body of the Living Brain
>parkerfags
>muh status quo
Grow up.
>Wanting Edgy Villain-Hero
You first
>No one thinks it's going to last
You've clearly missed out on all the outrage from moviefags and SJWs who think that unless they make petitions and harass the writer on twitter then yes, it will last forever.
I really just don't want to support a company that's more interested in trolling it's audience than creating excellent stories
I dropped marvel entirely as soon as brevoot said they wanted to make fans angry.
He may be right that angry fans buy, but Im sure as shit not going to be one of them.
But Cap isn't working with a Nazi. We don't know which faction of HYDRA he's hailing (he could be the head of his own faction for all we know), and the only faction that's associated with Nazis is Red Skull's.
This makes no sense. Why the fuck would angry fans buy? They pissed me off with Ben Reilly and I damn sure stopped buying their shitty books until they brought Peter back.
I don't know why people who didn't like the issue feel alluded. He clearly isn't speaking to you. If you didn't like the issue who gives a fuck. You won't buy anymore (Hahahahaha as if you bought it in the first place) and that will be the end of it.
He's talking about everyone who threw a bitchfest because they saw a single page and automatically branded the whole story shit without having read even the rest of the issue. What's more complained about things that never were there or obviously will turn different.
...
So quick question because I haven't been paying too much attention to the Captain America books: does Skull still have Professor X's brain powers? Or was that wiped out during AXIS?
...
>wanting an editor self-insert
Do you still play with your spiderman dolls?
A list + controversy = publicity
It doesn't really work with C list though. Despite the first issue doing well Arena plummeted and Undercover was dead out the gate
I'm surprised no one has welcomed me to Obama's republic of hittlerstan because of this yet.
No what he's doing is hiding actual criticism of his shitty story and troll tactics behind fanboy outrage.
He's playing the audience for idiots and frankly we've been sick of it for a long time
You guys think this is bad, just wait till the reveal that there's been 3 captain Americas the whole time
It just doesn't add up to me I don't see why Hydra would ever trust him.
Has it finally happened? Have we reached peak on the "Get em Riled" strategy?
That already happened. In the 70s, I think.
And all of them were working for Hydra all this time.
It's funny because THERE HAS BEEN 3 Captain America's all this time! Hell I'm counting 4
I hope one is Bucky Cap.
whatever happened to US Agent
Spencer seems like the kind of guy that just tries to write interesting and often funny books and gives zero fucks about the online crap, Lieber was and probably still is a lurker here you think they don't talk?
>implying Superior Spider-man's interesting idea wasn't completely squandered by sub-par writing.
>implying any of it mattered 12 months later.
The problem isn't Cap being evil. The problem is everyone around Cap will act out of character to preserve the "secret" which the readers already know. It was sloppy storytelling with Spider-Ock, and it's sloppy storytelling now.
His point is shit because they market it a specific way to make people have these reactions. All he's saying is, yeah, we're lying to you by misrepresenting the premise of the story, in order to push an agenda.
>just wait till the reveal that there's been 3 captain Americas the whole time
I know you're doing a riff on the Joker reveal, but there are literally 3 Captain Americas in 616 right now.
hey, guess what... if you're what counts as the "audience" why the fuck would anyone care what you think
get out more, try actually buying an issue of a comic book for once in your sorryass life
>"Spider-Man is raping Mary Jane, because Mary Jane doesn't know he's Doc Ock, this is terrible, Marvel is promoting non-consensual sex."
>The story wasn't any of that
that's literally what happened though
>Why the retards always jump to false conclusions over a single page or cover?
>false conclusions
you mean the conclusions marvel is feeding people?
I don't know if marvel employees went around lying and saying peter parker was dead for good and doc ock would always be spider-man or something, but they are saying that about cap. see pic, they are not leaving much room for any other possibilities other than them lying or the alternative that everyone is freaking out over
>in order to push an agenda
And that agenda is... selling comics? I don't see what's wrong with trying to get people to notice your product.
That's some great advertising. you must work for deep silver
all they're really doing is playing up the fact that their storylines are triggering social media explosions.
I make mine not Marvel now... but now days people online are gonna kick up a shitfit anyways may as well lean into it.
>He's playing the audience for idiots
The people getting angry about this are legit retards though.
You're missing the point of my argument. The agenda isn't to sell more comics. The agenda is to create controversy through misrepresentation.
I don't have a fucking clue what deep silver is, the fact that you think I'm advertising makes me question your mental faculties
...to sell more comics. what are you two even arguing about?
You don't seem to know what sarcasm is either.
Their have been at least 4 going back to the 40's. Is US Agent still alive? Last I heard he was in the Thunderbolts
What marketing? They didn't spoiled the issue, it was click bait sites. I don't go into their page and see a giant ad Reading 'The comic where Cap becomes a Nazi in stores Now!' Hell, they aren't even advertising the reveal in the solicitations for issue 2 or 3. Marvel's market has nothing to do with people's reaction, they're getting outraged because they like to be.
Maybe people are just sick of shitty shock and outrage gimmicks for sales. Maybe pretending "spotto" to be some amazing worthwhile storytelling that ultimately changed very little of the status quo is not the best defense.
But there's a multitude of reasons why Superior sucked other than 'not muh peter'.
This is just reactionary marketing, it's gimmicky as hell and forces writers the throw more and more absurd twists in order to keep these ancient characters still relevant.
Are you guys even able to follow a logical path or reasoning?
The agenda within the scope of my argument which is why the guys argument is crap. The agenda is to get these types of reactions out of people. And then this guy wants to say people are jumping to false conclusions because they haven't read the entire story, when they can't read the entire story. Hence, the readers are only having these reactions because they've purposely (their agenda) put readers into this position by misrepresenting the overall story.
>The agenda is to create controversy through misrepresentation.
Gee, have you ever wonder why exactly would they want to do that?
>people's reaction, they're getting outraged because they like to be.
That's part of my point.
I-t-t-t-It's called "S-Sponsored content" adds d-d-d-isguised as news
So what you're saying is that they're generating controversy... to sell comics
No. They know precisely what they're doing. That's why I said the guys argument in OPs post was bullshit.
No. I'm saying they're purposely generating controversy through misrepresentation which is why the guys argument in OPs post is bullshit. If people could read the entire story they would but they can't. I'm not arguing against the reason why Marvel pulls this shit. Everyone knows they're just trying to sell comics. I'm just pointing out why this guys argument is bullshit.
>The agenda is to create controversy through misrepresentation.
Yes, and they do that to sell comics.
Congratulations.
Easily the most cataclysmic event since John became the demons.
For nerds.
Glad to see I'm not the only one that turned to Japanese heroes after being dissatisfied by the Big Two.
Every time I encounter a problem now, I ask myself "what would Godai do?"
And then I try to kick the problem until it explodes
literally the plot of the new doom game. how the fuck are video game designers executing this better than full time comic writers?
Thanks Captain Obvious. I never argued they didn't. I merely pointed out the agenda within the scope of my argument. But have fun playing with your strawman.
>People want to have spoilers. They want to know how the movie ends
The main issue is that this isn't like a movie; it's dragged out far too long, and is too costly. Waiting a full year or two for a shitty storyline to be over is tiring.
It's why it's annoying that comics are focused on big events like this in ongoings. Big storylines should be released as full-length graphic novels; get single issues back to being single stories or two-parters that anyone can pick up and read, not this drawn out shit.
Depends on how you see it, in the furious intent on Marvel's part? That was post Civil War and Secret Invasion where they kept rubbing off about
>The villains won. Deal with it.
Like it was some big, bold statement how hamfistedly people came into power just to build up a several contrived Dark [Group] scenarios.
If you mean in terms of just doing something dumb and stumbling across a land mine? It's debatable, I think there have been worse cases of outrage. They didn't trend but they were met with a lot of complaints. This again really just happens to be Spencer catching his sail in the wind after Civil War since there's all the fuss about Cap Chris getting a gay boyfriend so whoever was following that might end up seeing something about the Hydra nonsense too.
Had he written this any time before it would have gone ignored. Mind I'm not excusing it, I still think it's an example of writing that's more etch-a-sketch plot than meaningful illustration but what're ya gonna do.
jesus christ, tricking someone into sex isnt the same as rape
it's a pretty fucking scumbag move but it's not in the same league
Either way, they never had sex.
I love All Might
Please let him win. He has to win. He just has too ;_;