So Cap's not ACTUALLY part of Hydra, right? It's all just some kind of ruse, right?

So Cap's not ACTUALLY part of Hydra, right? It's all just some kind of ruse, right?

Right?

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Yes.

he SAYS hail hydra, so that means it's obviously permanent.

As permanent as your parent's love, OP.

Hol up.
Are you saying comic books might use outrageous plot twists that end up not what they seem for short term shock value that grabs headlines?!

Said it ain't so!

So, we placing bets here?

What are the odds of memory implants?

How about the odds of an alt universe Cap after all that Secret Wars shit?

youtube.com/watch?v=zzjOjc1fHME

Yes OP, welcome to comics.

Get out while you still can.

Just think of him as the Superior Captain America. Does that answer your question?

>How about the odds of an alt universe Cap after all that Secret Wars shit?

Shit I could see Ultimate Cap turning HYDRA

Probably. It's comics, this shit happens all the time only to go back to the status quo.

But SpOck actually tried to be a hero and for all intents and purposes was a semi-decent hero
Here it's just another stupid cop-out to generate eyeball counts

How? He dought Hydra in the Ultimates and didn’t like them.

Ultimate Cap was a jackass compared to 616. I could totally see him working undercover all his career as a legit HYDRA spy

I think you have to read the comic to see how it plays out...

Well, since Tony Stark is still a double agent for Kang and Peter Parker is still just a clone made by Jackal, this must be just as permanent.
Marvel is changed forever now that this is revealed and Captain America will be the next big villain in the MCU after Thanos.

I'm pretty sure Red Skull boasting about having a master plan before is completely unrelated.

what a waste of a chin cleft

Hail Captain Hydra!

Don't worry OP. Cap is just telling them to contact Hydra, he's on a plane so he's using proper terminology but also a poor choice of words. He SHOULD have said "Radio Hydra." or "Contact Hydra." but forgot himself in the moment.

He just chose not to activate till now for a certain reason

>everyone lost their shit, got passionately angry, and organized literal book burnings
>all over a bad pun

No shit

That's what makes it so retarded. No on in their right mind would believe this for a second, but the characters are going to 100% buy this shit in it's entirety because the narrative calls for it

Tony Stark, Kang agent though is dead.

Franklin Richard simply aged up a teenage parallel universe counterpart of Tony's then raped his brain to give him old Tony's memories and disintegrated the real Tony Stark's body to keep it from being used against no longer Teen Tony

If this ends up being permanent (it won't) I honestly wonder how they'll play all of Cap's anti-Hydra antics in the past.

Like he was trained by Hydra as a boy to be sick and feeble just so he could get the SSS and becoming a WWII Champion of the United States so that he could infiltrate the higher echelons of American influence and social tiers at the cost of stopping Hydra a MULTITUDE of times including some times where by showing his true colors, Hydra could have achieved their goal of World domination only for that Hydra training to kick in now for some unknown reason.

Like that's som Next Level Keikaku

I wonder if the huge backlash is going to lead to issue #2 being hastily rewritten/redrawn to flat out state that Cap's being brainwashed/reality has been warped to make it look like Cap has been Hydra all along?

Supposedly, they've had to rewrite the Serpent Squad and upcoming Americop storyline to curb Spencer going full retard. Wonder if they will be doing the same to this arc and much quicker too.

OH GEE,GUESS YOU'LL HAVE TO BUY MORE COMICS TO FIND OUT

Assuming they don't backpeddle like crazy and go a Hydra civil war route (with Nazi Hyda run by Red Skull and Cap being part of secret society Hydra that Hickman created when he retconned Hydra being an ancient death cult), they will probably go the route that Cap was allowed to repeatedly beat up Hydra because of Viper and Baron Strucker being "loose canons" going against script via open attempts at world domination and needing to be put down because they routinely outed Hydra to the unwashed masses as evil shits out to take over the world.

...

Either way, I fully expect that Marvel is frantically rewriting their plans for Hydra Cap.

Note how in spite of all of their hype that Otto was going to rape by deception Mary Jane, they ended up pussying out on it when the internet exploded in flames over it?

That's going to happen now with Cap.

They are going to either A. make Cap be part of the "good part" of Hydra and probably assbend rape Hickman's "Hydra" retcon to reveal that one part of Hydra is SJW approved "good" and that Strucker co-opted Hydra to make it Nazi-like after the war.

Also, I would not be shocked if issue #2 has Cap still spewing SJW one-liners in regards to being part of the SJW sect of Hydra that is at war with the racist Trump-esque version of Hydra Red Skull is a part of. And for them to say Cap was recruited by Hydra as a kid BUT stopped attending meetings when the war broke out and he became Captain America and only recently, since the events of Standoff, has Cap reunited with the SJW sect of Hydra to bring Red Skull down.

What? What changes are you talking about?

SPENCER: Issue 2 will lay a lot of our cards on the table in terms of what the new status quo is, but the one thing we can say unequivocally is: This is not a clone, not an imposter, not mind control, not someone else acting through Steve. This really is Steve Rogers, Captain America himself.

Diamondback was supposed to go full-villain and go to jail at the end of the Serpent Solutions arc.

Someone at Marvel leaked this to Mark Gruenwald's widow (since Diamondback was based off of Mark's wife, who used to be a wild child before settling down) and she raised hell to Brevoort over it and Brevoort forced Spencer to rewrite the ending so that Rachel ended up turning on Viper and getting away with no consequences for her brief heel turn.

Also, the Americop arc (the next FalCap arc) was heavily revised from what Spencer originally pitched/wrote because the story was too critical of police to see the light of day.

I believe it when I see it.

Seriously, they are going to pull an Otto/MJ and damage control like hell for issue #2 while doing their damnest not to abort the fucking storyline outright.

Just like they promised Otto would fuck MJ while wearing Peter like a flesh suit then caved to the backlash and then lie like hell that Otto NOT raping MJ was the plan all along, they will backpeddle like crazy and then refuse to acknowledge that they backpeddled at all.

>Also, I would not be shocked if issue #2 has Cap still spewing SJW one-liners

Oh Cap will. But it'll be FalCap.

That user was lying because they also said things that were outright impossible about Spencer and DC and Evans.

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>damage control
this is the most people have been talking about marvel comics in years
I wouldn't be surprised if they just double down and have peter parker join isis

they should put it on the cover.
>THIS IS NOT A CLONE!
>NOT AND IMPOSTER!
>NOT MIND CONTROL
>NOT SOMEONE ELSE ACTING THROUGH STEVE!
>READ THE SHOCKING AND ABSOLUTELY STORY OF HOW STEVE ROGERS HAS ALWAYS BEEN AN AGENT OF HYDRA

panels.net/2016/05/26/on-steve-rogers-1-antisemitism-and-publicity-stunts/

Is making Steve a Nazi offensive to Jews? This article writer's (pretty much only) point is that his creators were Jewish and he was created in a time when a lot of Jews were dying/being discriminated against.

Do the Gruenwalds even have any sway/importance in the eyes of Marvel these days?

I mean, Ed Brubaker routinely shitted on Mark Gruenwald's run by claiming he wrote Cap as a pussy became Ed wanted a Cap who indiscriminately killed while Gruenwald came up with the story that codified the notion that Cap America refuses to kill anyone unless it was a literal "kill or be killed" situation and even then, only as an absolutely last resort.

Cap is part of Hydra. He believes in Hydra's ideals. Cap has always been part of Hydra. He has always believed in Hydras ideals. This is not a ruse. Everything up until this point has been a deception. The Cap we knew never existed. This is canon now.

>Yfw this actually IS Ult Cap
Holy shit that would be awesome.

They're reaching like every other media outrage machine. A character can be shaped and evolved, original intent be damned. The really issue is how stupidly lazy the concept is/executed.

Plus, it's just gonna be spectacular Spider-Man all over again. He'll be normal in no time but no one will trust him until they reboot the character again.

Not exactly; they said DC was kissing Spencer's ass, offering him A-List books to come back and Spencer simply using the standing offer to blackmail Marvel into giving him Bendis-level protection from editors status.

And that sounds impossible.

This is my favorite so far.

I think it has to do with the Cosmic Cube girl Kobik. When making Captain America young again she most likely altered his past and it needs to be corrected

So Cap is gonna' have to kill a little girl?

I mean we could just toss her off a bridge and ask Spider-Man to save her, we'd get the same results.

The thing is I don't care that he's Hydra or anything like that, but this was such a horrible left field twist to end on that it left a bad taste in my mouth.
I mean what is with recent comics and the shock value endings in hopes of getting headlines, what happened to trying to tell a good story?

Are you retarded?

I doubt that's what's going to happen. I presume it will probably be some kind of time fuckery bullshit that is used to make sure Captain America's timeline stays intact and he never joins Hydra

The really funny thing is Lee and Kirby created HYDRA as Nick Fury's equivalent to SPECTRE (and Lee had the catchphrases already in the very first issue they appeared in).

It wasn't until Steranko took over that he revealed Strucker was the head of HYDRA.

So turning a Jack Kirby creation into Nazis was already done while Jack Kirby was working at Marvel.

>what happened to trying to tell a good story?

Good stories don't make money. Just look at Bayformers.

He'll be part of a secret faction of Hydra that is benevolent, before Stucker changed it to an evil organization. Screencap this.

If DC was able (and successfully I might add) to get Greg Rucka back, you think they wouldn't try and get Spencer back?

IIRC the poster said they offered him a couple of high profile books (including Suicide Squad), and a Bat-villain ongoing title with all of the A-List villains.

And again, it said that Spencer simply used the offer to get his way on the Cap book, which means while he still hates DC, he's not above trying to play DC against Marvel to get his way.

Alas I know this to be true, but I guess I was hoping for at least some good

he's evil

If that is true I will buy this series.

Steranko is a Nazi.

Because he was an ultra-nationalistic conservative? That really doesn't make sense pal.

Nah, he has just realized that his ideals are unrealizable in the real world because the people he wants to give equality will subvert and degrade it.

Hydra's methods will lead to the best possible world. Hail Hydra.

>Spencer hates DC

And this is because...?

How badly did Spencer burn his bridges at DC?

I know he shit talks DC on Twitter, but so does everyone in the industry since New 52 started.

>Nah
>proceeds to agree with me

Since we're talking about Hydra, have they ever gone against Doctor Doom?

I'm going to sort-of repeat myself here. Now in a month you'll be glad you screencapped and was smarter than everyone else.

He's not part of Hydra. Nick Spencer is just a fucking hack, still, again, as usual.

They pulled the rug out from under him on Supergirl.

He is, but a good Hydra.

This. If AIM can be heroes then why can't HYDRA?

He pushed Jack Flag off to his apparent death while lamenting the necessity of his action.

IIRC it's a combination of two things:

1. New 52. Spencer got fired from Supergirl, which to his credit he had turned from a god-awful shit comic to one of the best Superman books on the market during his short run.

2. THUNDER Agents. It was a vanity project of Spencers', using characters DC acquired but had been sitting on due to issues with the original creator having creative control over the franchise and DC not being able to do anything new with it because of the veto power, until the creator of the character died.

Spencer was given the franchise to reboot and it was a huge passion project for him and it got canceled due to shit sales. Spencer was butt-hurt like hell, as he felt that DiDio should have kept the book going, even if it didn't sell at all, as a favor to him to keep him happy.

Exactly, if he was truly evil then he wouldn't have any regrets.

>which to his credit he had turned from a god-awful shit comic to one of the best Superman books on the market during his short run.
You must be mistaking him for someone else. He was going to have a Supergirl run, but he ended up co-writing a single issue.

The THUNDER Agents thing was kinda bullshit though because it was a mini that was cancelled prematurely. It's one thing to cancel an ongoing because of shit sales, it's another to cancel a mini. Even if the floppie sales sucked, they could have probably made up the loss through trade sales, but then they couldn't put out a trade because it was never finished.

Also Didio keeps books that should be cancelled due to sales going all the time. Just look at Jonah Hex/All-star Western. That should have been cancelled like 2 dozen issues before it was but Didio kept it going at a loss because he loves Jonah Hex.

AND they did jack fucking shit in terms of advertising the book. I didn't even realise it existed until it was already cancelled.

They released a trade of THUNDER Agents volume 1 a couple of months after vol 2 started. They knew what they were getting jack.

They gave Spencer 16 issues, which is 4 more than Omega Men got and that guy got an exclusive deal.

With SHIELD becoming more and more questionable under Maria Hill, I'd love to see Cap bring in his own version of a "good" HYDRA to go against it.

By the way I checked and vol 2 was always solicited as a six issue mini, so if it was cut short by 4 issues, it was done so before the first had been released. If Spencer got pouty and refused to change his story, that's on him. The floppies didn't sell, the first trade didn't sell, he was a failure.

This made me want to go out and buy Thunderbolts Classic.

Is that weird?

I sincerely hope that's what happens, if only because I think it would be funny for Cap to infiltrate HYDRA and make a 'good' branch

1,000 hours in GiMP

Who cares? It will just get written off in a year or so as so brainwashing or some shit. It's a fuckinh comic book.

See this kinda shit is why I stick to the movies.

a) its mind control
b) Hydra wasn't necessary an evil organization (as seen in the flash back) and Steve is trying to bring back the "good" hydra
c) he's pretending to be Hydra to trick them into letting him in

If he was a member of HYDRA as a kid, that's long before the war and the nazi influence. I really doubt that Cap being HYDRA means he was suddenly working for the nazis all along like everyone is claiming. People are way oversimplifying HYDRA's history. It's possible that Steve's values and ideals are still the same as they have always been.

I'd love to see Steve take over HYDRA to fuck up SHIELD.

> genius marketing

>Nick Spencer is just a fucking hack, still, again, as usual.
How much of this Spencer and how much of this editorial directed shenanigans? This very much feels like forced controversy to me.

I'm giving Spencer the benefit of doubt because Superior Foes and The Fix are both great.

In interviews he talks about how he presented this plan all the way back in 2014 and was expecting to be shot down or have to fight for it, but that everyone was surprisingly on board.

The idea of Steve always being HYDRA chills me to the bone but I'm alright because I don't think they'd ever do that.

But the fact that there's a part of me thinking "would they?" means they're doing something right.

I doubt a HYDRA agent could ever lift mjolnir.

Because they are straight up Nazis? AIM is just scientists and a highly fractured organization is a hilarious amount of divisions, cells and branches.

Now if we were going into MCU territory then Cap launching a infiltration into HYDRA backstopped with help from Nick with a story that he was HYDRA all along. And not playing gotcha with the audience then this could be something.

It takes too long to draw an issue for them to change issue #2 in any significant way. It's extremely, EXTREMELY unlikely they'll change anything. Brevoort ain't a bitch and Spencer doesn't seem too bothered by the reaction.

It's just a 6-12 issue story arc about Cap being mindraped by the Red Skull. It's not even particularly subtle for a "shock" cliffhanger. Gee, the mysterious woman who recruited Steve's mom in a sepia toned flashback is wearing red? I can't imagine what that could possibly mean. Motherfuckers need to relax.

The most interesting theory I've seen is that he really is part of Hydra, but it's a part that's splintered off from the Red Skull-led sect long ago and is actually good.

But he killed Jack Flag so that's out.

...

>Because they are straight up Nazis

They aren't though

This is the most interesting thing Caps done in years

Then what are they?

Terrorists

Just curious- have you only watched the movies for your knowledge on HYDRA? I feel like that's what's causing all this CAP IS A NAZI outcry.

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