Was the confederacy actually as retarded as I was told in school?

was the confederacy actually as retarded as I was told in school?

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No. Their constitution was a great improvement on the US's constitution. And they were intelligent men.

Read: memory.loc.gov/ammem/amlaw/lwcc.html

No. You were taught that they were a bunch of slave mongering retards by the govt that won the war through brutal tactics that targeted civilians, destroyed cities and towns, and demolished supply rail and infrastructure. They just wanted to leave the union. Not a shilling southerner, I'm from Massachusetts.

They did very well in the war despite having virtually no industry, war economy, and logistics compared to the Union. In an alternate universe they might have won.

Nope

Retarded? No.
Lead astray? Yes. Lincoln never had plans to abolish slavery until well into the war. The war, which was started by the Southerners shelling Fort Sumter.
Had they not done that then Lincoln wouldn't have been able to enter a war without looking like the aggressor.

>Lincoln didn't have plans to free slaves until he needed to win the war
almost like the South was ceding for reasons OTHER THAN slavery.
but no way, My revised history book written by Jon Goldstein proves that the south's only reason for ceding was slavery!

Jefferson Davis was ineffective and probably not the best man they could have chosen as president.

Meanwhile Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson were veritable military geniuses and better than anyone the North had.

The South didn't fail because of stupidity, it failed because of lack of resources, men, and support from foreign powers.

inb4 muh states rights

Which confederacy. The false flag confederates or the real confederates?

>NZ
>population < 5M
>would make kind of a decent-sized state

You'd better believe states rights is important. Just look at the EU.

right right. thats what my redneck friends always say. "it was about states rights"
but in reality it was about the states' right to own slaves. or maybe im jjst a bluepilled fagget

just remember, history is written by the victor.
Not everything they teach today is fair or accurate, in fact most of it isn't.

The South obviously had squabbles over many issues from civil liberties to economic management, yet its better to just paint them as "EVUL RAYCISTS" if you're the Federal Government enforcing common core education.

As he even pointed out, the North had much better infrastructure than the south even though they were all the same country for 50+ years. Almost like the Feds were treating the North better than the South and southerners got tired of it. But im sure that would never happen in a human society, clearly it was all about picking cotton.

see

Slavery was the main issue. Lincoln said that eventually the country would have to determine if it would allow slavery or not because the practice of adding one slave state and one free state wasn't working.
The South relied on slavery for much of its economy, even though only the rich owned slaves and large plantations. They took Lincoln's words as him saying that slavery would be abolished and that the higher population states (And thus states with a higher number of Representatives) in the North would vote to end slavery- a vote that would have little effect on the North, but would cripple the South.

The South seceded and wrote its own Constitution protecting slavery to ensure that their economy would not be dictated by a federal government that did not understand its interest or where states could vote on matters that did not affect them. The main issue was the South not trusting the Federal Government/ North, but Slavery was the biggest cause of the distrust.

>Appoint Jew as Secretary of War

We fucking would have won if Lee didn't fucking opt for an all out assault on the Union position at Gettysburg. If Stonewall Jackson hadn't died, there would have been a CSA.

There's a saying something along the lines of, "if you know nothing about the civil war you think it was about slavery, if you know something about the civil war you know it was actually about states' rights, and if you know a lot about the civil war you know it was about slavery."

The Civil War series by Ken Burns is legit really fucking good and it's on Netflix so I recommend it.

>went to school in South Carolina
>Mr. Gleason redpilled us on the war of northern aggression in 5th grade social studies

seems accurate. it just sucks the good goys lost

The south got fucked in the elections and they were getting screwed over in representation. Lincoln didn't win in any southern state and still became president is a testament to this. Laws were being made that favored the north and there was nothing the south could do because of how the system was set up.

I doubt it. The South was in an unwinnable war. Regardless of their successes at the start, the North had much more manpower, industry, railroads to move materiel, and phased out the incompetent commanders with better ones.
Lee, Jackson, Forrest, Beauregard, etc. were very smart men. But they did not have the resources to complete their goals. Invading Pennsylvania was their attempt to get around to DC so they could siege the city, draw Union forces to defend, and end the war with a treaty before the South's disadvantages caught up to them.
It was a bold move and may have worked (Or the siege may have been broken and Lee's army shattered entirely), but they didn't have much other options.

They cant have you believing that the confederacy was on to something great. Why would they want you to believe that.

Everything you learned is wrong.

It's always slavery blah blah and blah.

>would make kind of a decent-sized state
Easy there partner

The only thing stupid about the confederacy was the fact they didn't modernize. And that was their biggest downfall.

AND IT'S GOING TO FUCKING HAPPEN THIS NOVEMBER

JEW YORK AND COMMIEFORNIA OWN EVERYONE ELSE

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

It was fractured and ill equipped which is why it failed.

The reason the civil war broke out was because:
* Lincoln put army dudes in congressional seats
* Voted to tax the fuck out of any goods from the south
* Then passed the XIIIth amendment (I put this in roman because there was an original 13th amendment).

South kinda had to go to war over that.

What do you mean? NZ is about 100k square miles, which is a decent size by area.

I haven't done a back of the envelope but the population density would probably come out within reason overall.

If we assume everything occurred as it actually did from the time of Jacksons death until Day 2 of Gettysburg AND Jackson is tasked with taking Culp's Hill instead of Ewell, then yes, absolutely the Confederacy wins that battle and the war is over.

No ifs ands or buts.

The Army of the Potomac more than likely dissolves and it's a political disaster of Lincoln. The pro-peace Democrats would have soared in popularity and elected positions. Lee continues to invade the North almost unmolested.

Now if Jackson had never died and history reflects this, Jackson more than likely can reach Harrisburg and Gettysburg probably never happens.

Southern Jews weren't like other Jews, user. Post-WWII Jews were all destructive.
Jews in the south integrated into their local communities and essentially became white people in a way the 20th century diaspora Jews never did.

I have a feeling that NY is going red in November.
Usually NYC is what determines the state, even though 90% of the rest of the state is pretty Republican, but with Trump people in NYC know him. And a lot people like/ respect him and what he's done for the city.
If there's any year for NY to go to the Republicans, it's this year.

Meaning don't go absorbing are colonies!

Wasn't it about the South getting tired of paying more for less representation. Plus something about paper money being against the constitution.

What is the reason the south declared war first?

Oh, nah, no worries. We have a decent foothold in the Asia-Pacific as it is, and NZ is unquestionably more British.

But after Trump & Brexit, we could discuss security treaties etc. if needed.

Niggers mostly

Slavery is an incredible simplification. The North and South had developed completely different economic models that created incompatible divisions. South Carolina almost seceded in 1832 during the Nullification Crisis and slavery wasn't even the issue. The North wanted, and largely obtained, an industrial policy built around heavy tariffs that reinvested the income into public works projects that benefitted Northern states. The tariffs promoted factories and industrialization that was helped by projects like the Eerie Canal. The South meanwhile had an export oriented agrarian economy that had to import machined goods from overseas, so they really didn't like paying a shit ton in taxes to import European products all for the benefit of Yankee factory owners.

Regionalism of political parties and representation was a major issue also. Southerners felt disenfranchised because they were effectively shut out of national elections and in Congress. Lincoln wasn't even on the ballot in a large number of Southern states for the 1860 election.

Winners write history.

That is all.

You're a dumbass.

Fort Sumter is in Charleston, South Carolina. It was part of the south.
Union forces held the fort when the South seceded.
The South tried to get the fort from the Union as peacefully as they could. They couldn't let a foreign power hold a fort overlooking one of the busiest ports on the coast. They offered to pay a more than fair price for it and to help the soldiers home unmolested. Lincoln said no. He used the fort further to provoke the South into attacking.

Kind of like Japan totally attacked America first in WWII and not because we were round-about starving them of resources.

When it comes down to it, the fact is that the most major element of the CSA really was keeping slaves legal.

Because of the nature of the Confederacy's economy, they (or rather the rich plantation owners of the time) massively relied on slaves to make more money. As pressure rose from the feds in the north who weren't relying on slave labor to ban it in the south as well, the people of the south saw it as the feds essentially about to fuck their economy in the ass. So, they rebelled.

It wasn't solely about slavery, obviously. There were a variety of other economic and political squabbles which contributed to the south attempting secession and which can be clearly seen in the outlines for the CSA's constitution. Nevertheless, slavery was probably 90% of the reason for tensions ever forming in the first place, this is simply a fact. You could argue it was more the south trying to defend their economy than it was them being ebil racists (it actually was more about that) but it still comes back to slavery anyway.

The poor whites of the time who lived in the south though did not benefit much from slavery at all, as potentially paying jobs were being taken from them en masse by blacks who worked for free. It was the rich, powerful whites who needed the slaves to maintain their wealth that really influenced the south and the direction it went.

Of course the Civil War also really ended up fucking the south in the ass after the fact which is why their education and infrastructure became so shit-tier for so long. They're recovering quite well now though.

>left the union on the idea that Lincoln would take "muh slaves" away
>even though Llincoln said he wouldnt
>fired on Fort Sumter, starting the civil war
>had way less men, and supplies, and rail roads and basically had no chance
>Jefferson Davis was a bad leader
>the Confederate government was a blundering mess of over inflated egos and finger pointing the moment anything went wrong
>murder Lincoln like sore losers and niggers after they lose the war
>form the KKK and start murdering black people for years after for no real reason other than butthurt

yeah, they were pretty retarded. Worst of all, you still have these LARPers that actually want to leave the union again for no real reason at all other than boredom, even though the south is poor as shit and would become a 2nd world shithole plagued by constant racial wars best case scenario

In reality it was about the North treating the South like shit for 20+ years. The South eventually got mad enough that they said "Fuck You" to the North and plans for the succession began. The North couldn't survive without the South so they tried to cripple them by taking their slave rights away disguising it as some civil rights movement. Lincoln knew that the North would have no means of export if the south left and he couldn't have that. Lincoln didn't take into consideration that the South were actually battle ready muricans ready to fuck shit up.
>Insert War

That would be amazing

This.

The civil war didnt happen

Ohh damn, knew about Fort Sumter, just never checked where it was exactly. That's really shitty.

>japan did pearl harbor because America was "starving them of resources"

>constant racial wars
No, just one.

Oh man you live in Mass? That must be maddening at times.

>"STOP FUCKING WITH CHINA AND EUROPEAN COLONIES OR FACE SANCTIONS YOU WAR MONGERING SLANT EYES"

Chinese a shits, Nips should have been allowed Manchuria at least 2bh

>Kind of like Japan totally attacked America first in WWII and not because we were round-about starving them of resources.

RARE
A
R
E

We (West Tennessean here) were outmatched by physical force from the start.
It was the:
>Superior Generals, who were vastly superior to any in the Union BEFORE 1863
>Defensive War, which placed the better Southern generals in advantage
>And Southern Pride, which gave the Southern generals nearly enough force to hold out
Unfortunately you can't make firearms out of cotton and tobacco. We were a deal with England away from out lasting the North's War Exhaustion.

Fuck off, Xing Zhang

>Nips should have been allowed Manchuria at least 2bh

They pretty much were. the Problem is when they started fucking with more of China, Russia, Dutch, British, French, and most importantly, American colonies in the pacific.

Everyone Forgets that Pearl Harbor was just one part of one giant attack by the Japs. They were trying to cripple the US navy and on the same day, they invaded the Philippines, Singapore, and hong kong

They were far from retarded. Read pic related if you're interested in a bit of an introduction to some of the main players
from both sides. It's about the Battle of Gettysburg.

Slavery is bad but I can't help but admire the fight against big government.

I get what you're saying but I thought the sanctions were a response to those attacks

If Trump wins, sign us the fuck up. 51st state under the Trump Empire is more relevance than NZ has ever had or ever would have otherwise.
We'd be like a second Colorado, except folk here are mostly conservative.

that picture has given me a boner

cheers, dutchfriend

YES! Thats why Abraham Lincoln the best President BTFOED them.

No in school we were told to feel guilty for kicking the ass of the South. LOL ABE LINCOLN IS THE BEST

suuuuuuuuure

Don't be a sad cunt mate. Make the Commonwealth Great Again.

We'd appreciate it if something were done about Canada as well.

This

leaf, just stop

kind of, but not really. The whole point of the sanctions was to stop them from invading everyones shit, but then instead of stopping and trying to talk it out, they used the chaos Hitler created and just said "fuck it"

They thought everyone would be too busy fighting in Europe to even give a shit about them or what they were doing, and they already signed a none agression pact with the soviets. Thats why it was so important to demolish the US navy for them.

REminder that Trump loves Lincoln.

Hell, if they'd just taken the damn hill like they were supposed to, when they had the chance, they might have won the battle, and had a clear path to DC.

It's rather good isn't it?

Enjoy, from a Brit abroad.

and? can you see my flag from your shill device?

youtu.be/YAfHigPsC_s
Thread theme

Ah fair enough. They really wanted to get into empire building but it was just too late by then eh

Their constitution had pros and cons. Two humorous things to note about it are that it actually reduced "states rights" in some places (remember the "states rights" claim was never common during the civil war and has never been sincere since) and a motion to put a clause into it to allow for states to secede from the CSA was rejected.

>Listening to Northern Lies

kys Unionist scum

If the South secured more border states in secession and fought a more ruthless style of guerrilla warfare like Mosby, then perhaps they could've won. They had some competent politicians and generals, but ultimately the coastal blockades, industrial might of the north, and the Union's endless supply of immigrants and douchebag 48ers did them in. Like they say, it was a war of attrition.

The war was started by Union troops illegally occupying Fort Sumpter

The Union drastically held itself back, especially in the latter half of the war. The CSA never had more than the glimmer of a chance, the growth of egyption cotton and diplomacy between the US and the UK then shut out even that.

exactly. The Japs just came to late to to colonizing/empire building table and couldnt just accept it.

jewish money printing

Lincoln never freed the slaves in the USA.

The Emancipation Proclamation was a propaganda piece designed to get CSA slaves to escape and revolt. So the CSA militias would be stretched thin to keep the slaves in line.

Meanwhile Union slave state slaves, were still slaves.

The 13th and 14th Amendment are not constitutional. As the CSA states did not have their own elected governments. They were being run by Union Military Occupation Governments.

Gotta keep the loser flag relevant. Sucks to suck.

Please have cancer

yeah

haha loser

LOL More central bank alex jones Ron Paul NONSENSE! Abe Lincoln was not against Jewish money, he did NOT print money to fund the war. He borrowed it from banks and it can be seen from this chart.

Nothing against Lincoln I'm just debunking your conspiracies

UK interests lie with Dixie imo. If it weren't for the cheap Indian cotton imports, we would have intervened on behalf of the south. We built ships for the south (e.g. CSS Alabama) and we very nearly officially recognized the south.

There was no moral justification for the abolishment of slavery, during a period where the US was genocide native americans. You cannot say it is right for the US to free the slaves and genocide the natives, its one or the other in moral terms and the abolishment of slavery was nothing more than an attack on the southern agrarian economy motivated by the North's simple aggression towards Dixie.

Plus, most of the original settlers of Dixie were English in the 17th century, Ulster-Scots and Borderer in the 18th century, and Huguenot and Irish in the early 19th century. If a cat gives birth in the dogs basket, the kittens dont become puppies; I consider any man born in America with British blood to be British, whether they like it or not.

England supports the South

>A fucking leaf

Go drown in a pool of melted ice moose nigger

Jup. This is an often-overlooked angle. Brits were out to divide and conquer again.

I'm out on whether it ultimately would or would not have been a good thing, but I'm not unhappy with the way things turned out, and hope we never have to see that kind of fighting in our land again.

yes

>Being BTFO this hard.

>tfw Trump probably will be the new Lincoln if the SJWs and niggers rise up against him during his inauguration.

Russians were helping the Union in the War.

there were two russian fleets sent to the USA during the war.

>irrelevant Communist shithole accusing others of being BTFO.

Go back to getting anally penetrated by Somalia immigrants you stupid leaf

I bet they regret that.

Indeed. When it comes to Great Game type stuff, we've often allied with Russia.

There is a theory that the English Roundheads settled in the American Northeast, and the Cavaliers settled in the South. The US Civil War was basically English Civil War 2.0.

- The Cousins' Wars: Religion, Politics, Civil Warfare, And The Triumph Of Anglo-America by Kevin Phillips

That's like saying US troops were illegally occupying Guantanamo Bay during the Cuban Revolution.

EVEN IF South Carolina had legally seceded they had no right to seize property that the federal government had purchased from them and developed of their own accord.

You say we were out to divide and conquer but dont forget only about 50 years before the civil war the Northern Yankee's attempted to invade and conquer British citizens living in Canada.

Considering your government is actively supplying and funding ISIS as well as other rebel groups in Syria, and have funded similar programs in the past (see: IRA, Al Qaeda, Contras, CIA in Chile, Piazza Fontana and Kashmir Princess)

Bit rich of you to accuse us of divide and conquer tbqh lad

No argument there. Divide and conquer is one of the oldest tricks in the book, and the better people get at seeing it the better we all are.

Like that time you guys radicalized the Wafd party in the 1920s to create the Muslim Brotherhood.

In the Western Theatre: No. They were even more retarded than you were told. Also, the total inability to grow enough food to feed themselves and their armies, despite being the agrarian society, was crippling and inexcusable. Jefferson Davis was a puppet to the plantation owners; a group of people who couldn't agree on shit. Said planter class also completely failed to live up to their obligations and properly lead/supply southern society as a whole.

So, to recap, they were led by a bunch of feuding rich farmers operating through a puppet president. Their army was made of of emaciated rednecks who never had enough ammunition or supplies. They were a nation of farmers who couldn't grow enough food to feed themselves because "muh cotton" came first. Their navy only operated effectively in one naturally defended harbor in Alabama. And all this so they could preserve their large population of niggers. Why does anyone here like them? They were incompetent and basically the globalists of their day.

I wouldn't put too much faith in that analysis.

Roundheads were more about restricting the power of government (monarchy). I'd say that is closer to the South's opposition of the Federal government.

Mfw when I was born not from Oliver Cromwell's hometown.