/doa/ - Dumbing of Age

Question

/doa/ - Dumbing of Age

Luke Baker

Y'know, for a devout Christian, Mary is sure implied to be against the blatant Trump analogue.

June 10, 2016 - 14:10

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Sebastian Murphy

Willis is really doing a great job of writing these robots that don't understand how humans converse or interact.

June 10, 2016 - 14:16

Christian Fisher

I'd say he does a good job of writing "The Straw Man and The Deadpan". One person snarks, while the other person basks in their own ego.

June 10, 2016 - 14:22

Mason Jenkins

shes also a hispanic woman whos admitted to not believing in the stuff she spouts and is related to roz, so

marys been on the record as hating every desanto for a while

June 10, 2016 - 14:45

Jeremiah Barnes

So uh....what's the joke?

June 10, 2016 - 14:48

Samuel Brown

Us for actively paying attention to this shit, even if we try to pretend that we're being ironic.

June 10, 2016 - 14:49

Charles Hall

marys ego
also this is a story strip, not a punchline a day. (even though a lot of them have punchlines anyway)

June 10, 2016 - 14:50

Asher Baker

It doesn't even do anything to progress the story. It's just Mary being a cunt.

This strip is fucking useless.

June 10, 2016 - 14:57

Parker Taylor

I really like Mary's shirt.

June 10, 2016 - 15:19

Colton Wilson

...

June 10, 2016 - 15:22

Dylan Thomas

christianbook.com/more-him-less-shirt-black-medium/pd/20368M
Here's the first one I found after searching Google. I'm sure there are better ones out there, of course.

June 10, 2016 - 15:28

Jose Hernandez

>this comic is fucking useless
ftfy

June 10, 2016 - 15:38

Eli Robinson

Willis is throwing a hissy-fit in the comments section. Come see before its deleted.

June 10, 2016 - 15:43

Jordan Stewart

Well somebody should screencap it.

June 10, 2016 - 15:46

Jack Stewart

Too lazy.

June 10, 2016 - 15:47

Camden Martin

This isn't Patreanon's strip?

June 10, 2016 - 15:49

Ayden Hernandez

No it's todays.

June 10, 2016 - 15:50

Lucas Watson

Two snippy comments, hardly a hissy fit. He was shut down pretty hard by the guy pointing out it'd be easy as hell for him to edit the dialogue.

June 10, 2016 - 16:00

Liam Edwards

No no, he'd need a TIME MACHINE for that.
Surprised entire string of posts wasn't deleted after the guy pointed out editing is a thing that exists.

June 10, 2016 - 16:01

Jace Sanders

I'd read the adventures of Dave Willis, Time Travelling Cartoonist.

June 10, 2016 - 16:04

Tyler Thompson

I cant tell if Mary is serious in the last panel or using dry humor. The latter seems more likely realistically given the dialogue, but...

June 10, 2016 - 16:07

Joshua James

It's difficult to tell because she has been given dialogue that no human would ever say.

June 10, 2016 - 16:27

Evan Gutierrez

Pic related.

I wouldn't. He'd just go back in time and retroactively make Mary the worst person in existence.

I feel as if Willis realized that Mary didn't have many memorable scenes prior to her interaction with Carla, so now he's going all in on characterizing her as being a total bitch.

June 10, 2016 - 16:29

Aiden Flores

>if someone criticizes my shit writing it's because they're a bigot who secretly agrees with the villains motivations simply because they're suggesting to make the person less of a cardboard cutout

bravo willy

June 10, 2016 - 16:32

James Cruz

It's equal parts irritating and hilarious how damn assmad he gets at the slightest hint of criticism.

June 10, 2016 - 16:34

Hudson Wright

>she was only trying to study

So has he actually addressed why this isn't a valid complaint or is the only response "IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT THEN YOU HATE TRANSEXUALS"?

June 10, 2016 - 16:35

Daniel Kelly

>I wouldn't. He'd just go back in time and retroactively make Mary the worst person in existence.

That's the beauty of it. In his attempts to make Mary the worst person in existence she retains popularity as her increasing "evil" makes her a cartoonish standout and villain you love to hate. As his sanity slips due to reality not conforming to his expectations he comes to believe that it's the past that he has to change. Gathering a brood of loyal followers, they seek to bring about his perfect world, even if they have to destroy history itself.

June 10, 2016 - 16:37

Josiah Roberts

Mary talks like an npc from a videogame made by Japan that takes place in a vaguely medieval setting.

June 10, 2016 - 16:37

Owen Bailey

This is how Willis thinks all Christians talk. Toedad and Ms. Brown were the same way.

June 10, 2016 - 16:39

Kayden Nelson

Nope, it's clearly just the evil internet bullies trying to deflect from the Big Issues.

June 10, 2016 - 16:39

Dominic Thompson

It isn't so much "all Christians" as much as it seems to be how he thinks devout Christians talk.

June 10, 2016 - 16:40

Benjamin Jones

>gamergate reference

Does time move slower for Willis or what?

June 10, 2016 - 16:41

Brandon Rivera

Well, he's developed a personal army from his years of being an Online Personality. May as well put them to use.

"You have defied me for the last time! So says Mary Doom!"

June 10, 2016 - 16:41

Luis Butler

For SJW-types, Gamergate is a never-ending threat.

Cue "stair-muffing.jpg"

June 10, 2016 - 16:42

Levi Thomas

>tfw reading shortpacked
>leslie introduces her mom
>who was just worried and wanted to meet leslie's girlfriend before they took her helicopter
>leslie flips her shit
>then the girlfriend rants at her, the woman just kinda looks at her non-plussed, and she stalks off after flipping her off
>several issues later, when introducing her baby with the emotionally abusive, terrible person
>her mother doesn't give her support for the horrible, unhealthy relationship
>she's the monster

I've only ever been on the 'villain's' side that hard once before, and that was with ethan's 'mean' boyfriend who wanted him to stop hoarding.

June 10, 2016 - 16:42

Ryan Stewart

Wow, Tim Buckley really did change his art style.

June 10, 2016 - 16:43

Luke Barnes

Nah, it's just a matter of 'winning' the argument by changing the question. In this case making the issue less about his writing and world-building and more about a grand scheme to protect Internet Ladies from Internet Dudes, and only nice guys like him can save the day.

June 10, 2016 - 16:44

Liam Powell

Willis has been making strawmen for his entire career. Walkyverse Mary was one of the first.

June 10, 2016 - 16:46

Joshua Morales

He's really like the new Andrew Dobson. Look at that fucking hand in the third panel.

June 10, 2016 - 16:48

Alexander Diaz

>no need to be condescending about it
It's like that guy doesn't understand Willis' ethos.

June 10, 2016 - 16:48

Dylan Thomas

>Carla is, as always, an annoying turd on purpose
>Mary goes overboard and insults Carla's very gender over the inconvenience

My issue isn't that this whole storyline is complete balls, but more about how good it could've been with this setup. Just hear me out for a second. Think of how much both characters could've grown as a result of this incident if Willis had any interest in developing characters instead of writing a story where he gets to beat all the meaniehead bullies:

>Carla realizes being a complete and total twat on purpose only makes you enemies- so getting made at the enemies you yourself made and playing the victim card gets you nowhere
>Carla realizes the enemies she DOES make are just that- enemies- so taking what they say to heart is a dumb thing to do in the first place
>Mary realizes she takes shit waaay to seriously and legitimately needs to work on her anger
>Mary realizes that she probably shouldn't speak for god, as his judging is his own business

OR- OR OR OR OR OR- EVEN IF YOU WANTED TO KEEP MARY AS A VILLAIN:
>Skip the part where Mary knows about Ruth
>Have Ruth beat the shit out of Mary after getting drunk and breaking up with Billie
>Have the entire floor hate Mary's fuckin' guts
>Have a teacher give her completely bogus grades because of what she said
So at least then you have some pathos and motivation for why she'd be bigoted.

June 10, 2016 - 16:49

Aaron Allen

>ethan is shown to be a manic collector, spending hours upon hours nightly collecting figurines
>then forcing his friends to help
>going from town to town in the dead of night
>his apartment is packed, up to and including being able to fill entire rooms with boxes
>toys line every inch of his shared apartment
>boyfriend is uncomfortable with this
>ethan tries to put his toys in boyfriend's house
>boyfriend is uncomfortable with this, says so
>says ethan may have a problem, and he's willing to help him get through it
>ethan flips his shit
>later, ethan encounters a hoarder who was having an emotional breakdown
>uses that as an example of why he doesn't have a problem--because someone is far worse, he doesn't have a problem at all!
>we're supposed to side with ethan as the boyfriend leaves him rather than stay with a toxic partner
>as evidenced several issues later when the boyfriend returns, points out his new boyfriend is an enabler(which he is), then hits on him

willis has some serious mental issues, doesn't he?

June 10, 2016 - 16:50

Jonathan Richardson

remember, if you criticize willis for drawing bad porn, you're just as bad as THEM.

June 10, 2016 - 16:51

Caleb Powell

There are no words strong enough to convey how bad Willis is at writing conflicts.

How does he manage to have a black and white viewpoint of his characters and yet still utterly fail to convey them as good guys and bad guys?

The "bad guys" are always grey area to downright reasonable, yet youre supposed to hate them, and the "good guys" are always loud violent pricks yet we're supposed to love them.

It's just astonishing. He fails character writing on every conceivable level.

June 10, 2016 - 16:55

Nolan Cook

I hope every one of you has adblock enabled if you ever visit Willis's site.

June 10, 2016 - 16:57

Connor Edwards

That was kind of the point where Shortpacked lost me. Among other things, it threw Jacob under the bus. Instead of having Jacob be a younger gen fandom foil for Ethan, Willis made him a sex addict, spun that into a general addictive personality. All so Ethan can say "At least I'm not *THAT GUY*"

June 10, 2016 - 16:58

Camden Williams

>He fails character writing on every conceivable level
I don't know how to say this without sounding trite but doing the same thing over and over again for years doesn't make you better at it. Listening to and accepting criticism does.

June 10, 2016 - 17:13

Connor Rodriguez

The problem is that all of DoA's stories are moralizing, and the morals are terrible. No one is growing or becoming better or reaching accords with people they disagree with. The villains are EVIL and the characters designated as heroes can be terrible without repercussion.

June 10, 2016 - 17:15

Easton Wood

>as evidenced several issues later when the boyfriend returns, points out his new boyfriend is an enabler(which he is), then hits on him
Even worse, Ethan seeks the ex-boyfriend out of his own volition, because his self esteem demands this person who's life he has otherwise completely broken off from realize he was totally wrong about Ethan. He's literally at the guy's door, trying to shove it in his face, for no other reason than it's the only way he can feel secure in his new relationship is if this other guy acknowledges it.

June 10, 2016 - 17:15

Lucas Baker

Lol, he responded and invoked Roomies lore.
>This character is clearly bad, just look at her past alternate form that I say is not at all necessary to enjoy this comic. I DON'T HAVE TO WRITE HER WELL!

June 10, 2016 - 17:16

Bentley Hernandez

they bumped into each other and the guy hit on him and gave him his address, which inspired that scene

June 10, 2016 - 17:16

Logan Harris

He was all over Twitter and stuff saying "the site may go down when i strike out at #GamerGate but I HAVE TO DO THIS" like he was gonna make a big difference.

June 10, 2016 - 17:17

Isaiah Powell

i wonder if that's supposed to be her redeeming quality.

June 10, 2016 - 17:17

Eli Scott

Bah, forgot about that. My last encounter with that particular encounter with this branch of the franchise was rereading the badwebcomics review.

June 10, 2016 - 17:22

Connor Perez

it's fine

it was still fucking stupid.

>post yfw you realize this is probably EXACTLY how willis defends his obsessions

June 10, 2016 - 17:24

Jordan Jackson

>remember, if you criticize willis for drawing bad porn, you're just as bad as THEM
I never get tired of this Discworld quote, as obvious as the moral is, because we never fucking learn.

>It was much better to imagine men in some smoky room somewhere, made mad and cynical by privilege and power, plotting over the brandy. You had to cling to this sort of image, because if you didn’t then you might have to face the fact that bad things happened because ordinary people, the kind who brushed the dog and told their children bedtime stories, were capable then of going out and doing horrible things to other ordinary people. It was much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone’s fault. If it was Us, what did that make Me?

June 10, 2016 - 17:26

Camden Price

That's so cute. Willis thinks he matters.

June 10, 2016 - 17:27

Nathan Morales

>His perfect glory's gentle reminder
Gentle indeed, sweet Mary.

June 10, 2016 - 17:27

Juan Wright

reminder that unhealthy obsessions are completely fine because there's always someone worse.

June 10, 2016 - 17:27

Liam Rogers

June 10, 2016 - 17:27

Ayden Reed

June 10, 2016 - 17:28

Nathan Stewart

It is. He tossed Drew under a bus because the comment section took his side.

He the had Drew come back and had the fuck you speech because the commenters missed him and agreed with him.

June 10, 2016 - 17:29

Asher Kelly

There wasn’t anything in your room –- only a bed and a small desk. It looked like a prison cell... No television set... no family pictures... not even a poster... A lifeless room... almost like your empty heart!

June 10, 2016 - 17:33

Nolan Fisher

ROSE!

June 10, 2016 - 17:34

Zachary Gonzalez

wasn't the porn willis drew not even good... like for him it was especially bad?

June 10, 2016 - 17:36

Jackson Roberts

Since we're bringing up Willis' bad writings and Shortpacked, Here's one that really stands out in my mind.
I still, to this day have no idea what Willis had going on in his head when he wrote this. Even as far as his soapboxing mouthpieces go, this one just doesn't make sense. Why would you bring up trans issues in this strip. This isn't even the argument you're fighting against. You just brought that up out of nowhere for no reason.
It's like having a comic about a guy who hates black people and saying "Tacos are from Mexico."
He eventually had to close the comments because people weren't eating out of his hands.

June 10, 2016 - 17:36

Thomas Price

If he wanted to keep Mary as the villain all he needed to do is switch the focus. The storyline starts with Mary being disturbed, it's very difficult for people not to sympathize with Mary after that. Willis wanting the message to be that bigoted language is never appropriate is fine too, but the fact that all Mary can muster up is an indirect insinuation that wasn't even clear to his longtime readers who follow his blog posts means that it doesn't work. Mary is less of a villain than an authority figure in an 80s teen comedy.

June 10, 2016 - 17:37

Christopher Campbell

Ken and Lucy deserved a better webcomic than Shortpacked.

June 10, 2016 - 17:38

Adam Cook

Most of Willis' characters deserve a better comic. He's better at ruining his own characters than Kishimoto.

June 10, 2016 - 17:39

Dylan Bailey

this is what was going through his head.

June 10, 2016 - 17:40

Levi Cooper

>having no conflict is a good thing
Unless you're somehow infallible, having someone call you out on your mistakes is a good way to get better.

June 10, 2016 - 17:40

Caleb Green

It's true.

June 10, 2016 - 17:41

Austin Sanders

>tfw lee, hinata, neji, and shikamaru remained consistent

June 10, 2016 - 17:41

Elijah Edwards

What a faggot, I pity his children.

June 10, 2016 - 17:45

Alexander Ross

>I pity his children.
I keep wondering whether they'll become super christians to annoy him, just realize what a shithead he is and be relatively balanced people, or end up "deschooled" retards who can't exist in the real world and try to live off of patreons and YT channels or whatevs they have 20 years from now

June 10, 2016 - 17:51

Landon Watson

Quick reminder that the DOA-edits tumblr is still going strong and Willis still hasn't talked about it.
doa-edits.tumblr.com

June 10, 2016 - 17:52

Kevin Allen

I figure they'll be super zealous.

First generation fundies usually are. They won't deprogram themselves if the culture they grow up with reinforces Willis beliefs, which it pretty much does.

Willis is super, super left, but polarized political parties tend to favor their own extremes over the moderates of the other side, so the general leftism present in the Nation's presence, that is the media, will back Willis's extremism up.

June 10, 2016 - 17:55

Carson Wood

this is based off a thread on allspark.com i think? anyway IIRC it basically went like this:

>Some Guy: anyway am i only one bugged by the MLP ad on the back? it's kinda jarring.
>Willis: You are aware they're both based off 80s children tv shows? It's the same demographic.
>Some Guy: one's a comic aimed at older male audiences and the other is aimed at little girls. it's not the same demographic
>Willis: Hey some of those girls have penises. You shouldn't let gender stereotypes dictate what you like.
>Everyone else in the thread: What the fuck are you talking about? Who the fuck was talking about gender issues?

June 10, 2016 - 17:55

Cameron Gomez

>still no fanfiction where Joyce gets turned into a dude and has to deal with havin' a wang and also maybe has gayboi sex at some point in there

why
even live

June 10, 2016 - 17:56

Evan Butler

>not having a fanfiction where Mary engages in a lesbian orgy with Ruth and Billie

June 10, 2016 - 17:58

Liam Sanchez

Even if some of those girls had penises, wouldn't they still fall into the girls' demographic?

I think Willis is actually pretty conflicted.

Perhaps he doth protest too much

June 10, 2016 - 17:59

Cooper Flores

He's a leftist but he's still a fundamentalist just like he was raised to be. That's why he's insufferable.

June 10, 2016 - 18:00

Charles Hughes

Yeah Christians aren't all that crazy for Trump.

June 10, 2016 - 18:02

Jason Johnson

Mary like this is actually funny.
Willis supposedly planned for her to be a foil to Joyce but decided no one liked her. But if she was a cartoonish strawman like that all the time she'd be a funny character. Instead we get this after she's gone through hell.

June 10, 2016 - 18:03

Owen Carter

That's literally what I said, anocchi.

But honestly, anyone who talks openly about any political leaning of theirs is insufferable, no matter how moderate.

That shit's like religion, you don't talk about it outside your own congregation or a proper integrated community.

I don't know what your mommies taught you guys, but mine always told me to never reveal my political power level

June 10, 2016 - 18:03

Eli Adams

>A pie to the face = hell

June 10, 2016 - 18:06

Lucas Howard

>not having Joyce lose her virginity to Jocelyn

June 10, 2016 - 18:08

Noah Rivera

I meant rather the prolonged harassment. Basically two bigger girls were tormenting her over her beliefs.
Just like GamerGate

June 10, 2016 - 18:08

Camden Jenkins

Well to be fair
>Misgendering=Hate Crime

June 10, 2016 - 18:08

Noah Russell

Wasn't she blackmailing one of them?

June 10, 2016 - 18:10

Luke Wood

No, hell is having Carla spending god knows how long (seriously, Willis's pacing issues mean we have no idea how long it was) Carla was designing that machine right outside her dorm, right down to measuring her door and her own height.

June 10, 2016 - 18:10

Chase Cox

Willis has done this a couple times with Mary. You think Mary is making a quip or attempting a joke because it is so unbelievably unnatural in normal conversation, but Willis clearly does want to portray Mary as this horrible character. I actually chuckled at this strip until I found out Mary was probably being serious and not teasing.

June 10, 2016 - 18:12

Cameron Martinez

>"The Straw Man
That's not a straw man.

Mary is her own character and isn't meant to represent anyone else. Not, she does not represent all christian, or Joyce's father, that mormon girl, that african girl who wear no shoes and all those other christians we have seen and Dorothy's parents would all behave like Mary.

June 10, 2016 - 18:13

Nathaniel Jenkins

Yeah, as a defence mechanism. Otherwise she would probably beat her again.

June 10, 2016 - 18:13

Chase Ortiz

Then why not go to the higher authority she was threatening to go to instead of blackmailing Ruth? Seems kinda like she just likes having power over people.

June 10, 2016 - 18:16

Eli Roberts

if he wanted us to hate her maybe he shouldn't have made a strip of her telling off the two most irritating characters in the comic

June 10, 2016 - 18:16

Luke Bailey

It progresses the story in indicating that Rose no know her sister is here. It also establish more on the interaction between Rose and Mary.
There is also joke that Rose had put her phone in her Vageygey.

June 10, 2016 - 18:17

Isaac Williams

>So has he actually addressed why this isn't a valid complaint
Yes. he has. His whole point is that someone beig a jerk with you doesn't justify hate-speech.

June 10, 2016 - 18:20

Luis Williams

this is going to happen forever and willis will never figure out that it's backfiring spectacularly

June 10, 2016 - 18:20

Thomas Hill

He is making a good point, here.

June 10, 2016 - 18:21

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