ITT: joints white people will never understand

ITT: joints white people will never understand

>caring more about a pizza shop window being broken than an unarmed black teenager being murdered by police

The unarmed black teenager shouldn't have been causing trouble.

discussions of this film on Sup Forums are always hilarious

Never seen this movie. Is it any good?

...

>>"Yeah, it's your business, but you should make it look the way we want."

For those who think this entitled bullshit just started in the last couple of years.

Can you imagine a movie about white people making a black shop owner have to change his store. You'd think there would be any ambiguity on who the filmmakers think are the villains?

listening to music too loud is not making trouble

Are there seriously black people/liberals who think that the Italian shop owners in this movie did ANYTHING wrong?

They own a store and decorate it the way they want to. It's not even like it was remotely offensive.

Explain yourselves

>playing your loud jungle music in somebody else's establishment isn't making trouble.

How bout I come into your house and start blasting music. And if you yell at me to turn it off then your just racist n sheit

The people of the neighborhood supported his business, he made a living off their money. Besides, nobody was asking him to take pictures of Italians down, just put a few of black people up along with them to pay homage to the black community's contribution to his pizza shop.

civilized people handle that by going to a different pizzaria

In the village where I live there is Thai family who own and run a Thai restaurant, they're the only non-white people in the village and most of their customers are white. Would we be justified if we went in their and demanded that they put up loads of English themed decorations alongside the Thai stuff because of the contributions we make to their business?

But they had been going to Sals since they were kids. All they wanted was for him to acknowledge the community that had supported his entire career.

If a family of black folks owned a record store in an all white suburb and the interior was decked out with a bunch of black power shit and certain employees were constantly spewing racist anti white filth, that wouldn't piss you off? You wouldn't feel like they were being ungrateful for running a business in white people's home, making a living off white money, but their only focus was on their black power shit and in fact from time to time they were downright abusive towards the very community that provided them their livelihood? That seriously wouldn't bother you?

No but there is a certainty that he wouldn't mind that as long as it improves the business

Sure. I'm guessing you think the idea is ridiculous though because there's no tension between you and the Thai family and there's no tension between whites and Thais in your area in general. So it's a bit different from the situation in the film.

I think the blacks should just be removed from white society, so that they no longer feel oppressed by white people

the only consistently racist character was John Turturro. Sal just wanted his fucking pizzaria left in piece.

More to the point, and to answer your question, I personally wouldn't be bothered. Like I said, I'd just go to a different restaurant.

It seems to me you have this whole thing ass backwards. Sal doesn't owe them anything, he's the one providing a service. They should be happy that he's there cooking for him, he doesn't owe them anything.

How entitled does one person have to be to feel ownership over the restaurant he's eating in, and to take it so far as to actually expect the right to decorate the place.

While I wouldn't have used his language, I definitely would have told them to fuck off as well.

Whites would just stop going, or would start a rivaling record shop that would out compete the racist nigger very quickly. Just because niggers are too dumb to make simple Italian cuisine doesn't give them the right to trash the store.

No wonder, White Subhumans think this movie was about "Hanging pictures in the pizza shop"....stupid cave beasts.

He was the only person willing to stay there though.

Not saying they didn't support him but it seems like a lot of other italian businesses abandoned the neighborhood.

if what you take from the movie is about whether or not he should have put pictures of black people on the wall, you're missing the point of the movie. literally.

The idea is ridiculous, with or without tensions.

The only outwardly racist character was Sal's son but Sam himself was racist as well when pushed, hence him sperging out calling them a bunch of niggers

Maybe the people in the neighborhood should be grateful, but Sam should be grateful as well and that's their point it's their home, it's their money, why treat them like they don't matter? Sal was being petty and ungrateful

So instead of just not eating at the racist pizza shop like any normal person you go in and have a fucking chimp out? This is why everyone hates blacks and those who defend their savagery

Death of the artist, buddy, I'm entitled to any analysis I have of the movie and you don't get to put it down without making an argument as to why.

But humor me, what then, was the point?

> ungrateful

How is he being ungrateful? He's there every day, working his ass off for lazy entitled youths, he has every right to decorate his own shop in every way he pleases.

Is the free market, rule of law and sanctity of ownership really that hard to understand?

Yeah, it's pretty good, but it's spike lee so it's pretty heavily biased left and towards the black characters.

You realize the characters tried to just stop going, right? That's sort of a big plot point in the film. The destruction of the store wasn't planned, it was the result of escalation of tensions by both sides

> escallation by both sides

Aside from a single slip of the tongue, what did Sal do wrong?

He's ungrateful because those lazy entitled youths put a roof over his head and food on his table. Working his ass off or not that's a fact, he lives off their money

fpbp

Screamed racial slurs and destroyed Radio Raheem's radio.

One of them actually has value the other is a nigger

he doesn't just live off their money, he works for their money, which means he doesn't have to be grateful for anything. He's earned what he's got.

They literally grew up on his pizza,it's not like it was world famous either.

His main source of profit was most likely from the community alone,so if you had a loyal customer base,why wouldn't you at least show your gratitude?

I don't really get hanging black leaders up in an italian restaurant even if the neighborhood is predominantly black,i feel like theres better ways to thank the community,like donating money to a school or hiring more kids.

his shop, his rules.

He'd already asked him to tune it down.

Its not like he's gordon ramsey though,its just another pizza place in NYC

It's no wonder nobody wants to open nice shops or restaurants in black areas when you have to deal with this shit on a daily basis

You clearly have never worked a day in your life if you think treating your customers like dollar signs who don't mean anything and you don't owe anything to is a healthy business mindset

He only did it because they were being assholes, though. The racial slurs might have been a little uncalled for, but he only said them because he was angry, and they totally deserved the radio being broken.

Again, I don't understand why he would owe them any kind of gratitude.

Like you said, THEY grew up on HIS pizza.

Seems to me they should be the grateful ones.

So his response is to smash it with a bat and scream bigger?

Sounds like whites are the ones who chimp put easily. A civilized person would have just calmly called the police.

It didn't seem like he was swimming in money, he is thanking the community by providing them a place where they can get nice pizza and hangout. Anything more than that isn't his duty, idk where you are from...but don't you think a pizza backer is a simple man, who works all day so he can get home and drink a beer and relax?

niggers gonna nig

are you implying that smashing a radio is worse than physically hurting someone?

this.its a symbiotic relationship.

They worked for their money too and should be treated well for their loyalty.

We're not discussing the man's business acumen, though.

clearly you own a successful buisness.

Worst argument ever, in your world he would be forced to have a retarded lesbian Muslim on the wall aswell just because that community thought it relevant.

>oh yeah well what if I came to your house and deejayed a party

This is not a good thing m8 because there are far more of them than there is of us
The non-white businesses get easy money from the government too, a small business owner is just the first step of the invasion

Ok let me flip it around on you: why should they be grateful for something they PAID for? Sal wasn't giving them charity, they PAID good money for his pizza. They don't owe him shit, right?

In reality they should both be grateful to each other because it's a mutually beneficial relationship.

> should

That's the kind of language you get to use when you have your own place of business

He wrestled someone, clearly he deserved to be executed on the spot.

I worked at a pizza place in a city.
You are just another pizza place to them if you don't at least try to treat them with kindness and make loyal customers feel special.

To repeat:

>Can you imagine a movie about white people making a black shop owner have to change his store. You'd think there would be any ambiguity on who the filmmakers think are the villains?

you're right, which is why the very first point I made was that they should have just gone to a different shop like civilized people.

There is no ought to in the free market. If people don't like the way you run it and think they can do better, surely there is nothing stopping them from building a better model.

Should've just called the police. He escalated shit by bringing out the baseball bat.

are you implying he deserved to have his shop burned down because he was bad at business?

Is this a reflection of your grasp of the justice system?

they were trespassing

He broke the radio, they broke his pizza place. Seems pretty tit for tat, no?

One of the issues was he was the only italian place left in the neighborhood iirc

And if he moved to an italian neighborhood his bussiness would be just another mediocre pizzaria

>angry mob about to fuck up the owner of the shop
>pookie or whatever Spike Lee's character was called see this and diverts attention to the shop instead
At least that's what I thought happened.

maybe his "loyal" customers should've asked themselves why the only Italian willing to cook for them is a racist, mediocre chef who treats his customers like shit.

please read death of the artist and thoroughly understand what it means before you invoke it. dont pull a "death of the artist buddy" while reading it.

what i assume is that you've obviously missed various criticism of buggin out by spike himself (his silly haircut, wearing 100 dollar sneakers and obv expensive clothes even though he doesn't have a job and just walks around the neighbourhood the whole day): obviously a what you would call a 'sjw' nowadays, throwing deserved outrage at the wrong people (mookie's sister being shown as a voice of reason in her convo with him).

i dont wanna do an analysis here for you because you can't pay attention for shit, the point of the movie is that raheem didn't have to die. conflicts over shit happen and the causes are many things (misunderstandings, impatience, the HOT AS THE DEVIL weather sometimes even pure abrasiveness or hate - radio raheem and john turturro are the most hateful characters there) but that no one should be killed over them. the point is clear and there are the mournful speeches telling you directly "it was clear as day the boy didn't have to die". and the ending, if you didn't feel the obvious catharthic ambiguity and felt that the pizzeria guys were portrayed as the bad guys, stop consuming art of any kind please.

one other thing i want to mention is that this is a movie about race relations. if you aren't interested in any way about narratives about race relations that (in my mind) portray both perspectives pretty truthfully and unbiasedly, just watch something else.

you're the one claiming that there's some sort of absolute truth about this movie out there that just happens to reflect what you felt, invoking Death of Author may have been a stretch but thankfully you made it completely valid by then claiming that whatever Spike Lee's intentions are for a character should somehow affect how I receive and think of said character. It doesn't. My experience is my own, not yours, not Spike Lee's.

Besides, if you somehow took away from what I've been writing that I felt that the guy deserved to die, or that I think the Sal was portrayed as the bad guy, you clearly haven't been reading what I'm writing, so why the fuck would I even engage with you any further.

Does discussion of this movie reveal that blacks and left wingers don't understand the concept of private property?

Didn't Radio Rakeem or whatever his name was threaten people constantly and walk around with a loud ass boombox even in the pizzeria?

That's fine, if the customers don't like it they are free to go elsewhere and the business can fail. Customers have no right to demand certain pictures be put up or not. Tell that to a bunch of ignorant blacks though.

death of the author isn't a free pass to just ignore shit you dumbass.

i didn't take away from your post that the guy deserved to die; only what i told you from beginning, that if what you're taking away from the movie is whether he should or should not have put the pictures of black people, that you're missing the point. that question in itself is not relevant. it's just a mechanism in the plot.

do bear in mind that i say that you're missing the point based on your view in the same way that i would tell it to someone making a feminist critique and basing their opinion off of that solely. it's an incomplete view, and sure you're entitled to it, but here i am having a discussion.

I never said that that was what I took away from the movie.

But as it happened, we were discussing this particular scene, is this okay with you? Can I do this, your highness?

Or should I go out and get my thesis in movie history and read three autobiographies of Spike Lee before I am allowed to comment?

>Sam himself was racist as well when pushed, hence him sperging out calling them a bunch of niggers
Yeah, a outburst in a moment of anger means you secretly plot to gas the niggers and Jews.

>thesis in movie history and read three autobiographies of Spike Lee before I am allowed to comment?

holy shit im sorry i didn't know you were this insecure.


ok then what about that scene?

Sorry about losing my head

We were discussing whether or not he should have removed the pictures, and if asking him to do so was justified

I don't understand why they thought any civilized human being would empathize with the nignogs in this flick.

Bamboozled is easily one of my favorite movies of all time. Spike Lee really highlights niggers behaving like niggers in a way no white director could do justice.

He assaulted someone*

Maybe just don't commit violent crimes (or any crimes???) and you won't have to pay the consequences. Dumb coon apologist.

Mookie got way too much shit in this movie.

He could have been a better worker though but damn his gf was a bitch to him

>when you gonna get a life moookie?

Shouldn't have gotten knocked up by a loser if you expected more,dummy.

What do you mean by "joints" in this context? Not a native English speaker.

What's Spike Lee's deal with Italians anyways? With this and Jungle Fever he really seems to fucking hate them.

They co existed in the ghettos and shit together

Lots of tension but also lots of common ground.

Did you guys not watch the movie? The blacks werent helping Sals business really, the fact that it was located in a bad black neighborhood was bringing the value down. If the evil white man gentrified the neighborhood, Sals property value would go up and he wouldnt have to endure the bitching of people who are too incompetent to run their own local corner store and pizza shop.

in my mind, let's say it wasn't justified. sal acted accordingly. the fact that he didn't put pics of black people isn't why the place got burned down in the end anyway, it's because raheem died. how it happened was incrementally of course (buggin out persistant on 'boycotting' sal, raheem just being an asshole, and that retarded guy being mad at john turturro for being an asshole, the rest of the niggers in the joint flipped sides only when sal bursted into a fit of rage and rest of the neighbourhood when raheem died). in this sense a question can be posed at any stage of the film for any character "is this guy doing the right thing".

my point is that i think the movie judges buggin out enough on this already (mookie's sister convo, pretty much everyone telling him that boycotting sal is a waste of time).

the conflict only needed someone to put out a friendly hand first, a small act of love, to not have it come to that conclusion. either buggin out calming down about a barely relevant issue, or raheem lowering down his fucking radio and not being an asshole, or sal just putting a picture of a black guy on the wall. all little things.

>It's a "it's racist to say 'no' to a black person" episode

because pizza shops are so rare in new york.

Also there were plenty of black customers shown in the film

it's what Spike Lee calls his movies, I think it just means collaboration

Joint can mean "place" in English
Not sure what he means exactly but i always thought it meant its his creation/product in the same way directors put a "Quentin Tarantino Film" as ownership.

I don't think you realize that Spike Lee's films are lot more fair than he actually is. He is a raging liberal but his movies are not.

Sal wasn't perfect by any means but he was a better force for good than anyone else.

>gives Da Mayor little jobs to do while all the black people mock him
>employs Mookie and treats him like a son even though he's a lazy worker
>genuinely enjoys how people in the neighborhood enjoy his food, even though it's no longer the italian neighborhood he grew up in

Maybe the movie would have had a better message if Mookie saved up his money, learned how to make pizza, and started his own business.

I see what you mean, good point.

The right thing in the title was never being done, in the sense of no one ever stepping up to be the bigger man. Except for maybe Mookie when he threw the trash can

>it's pretty heavily biased left and towards the black characters.
No its not. Everyone is painted as an asshole that contributes to the problem. Buggin out annoyed the shit out of everyone and the only person who listened to him was that waterhead radio raheem.
Even the Mookie is portrayed as a lazy asshole.
The title is supposed to be ironic because no one "does the right thing" except maybe mookie throwing the trash through the window and saving Sal's life.

Also constantly having to deal with lawsuits when there is an inevitable fight or shooting and someone gets injured.

maybe should make a sequel like that. Ending with Mookie smashing some latino kid's stereo and having his new place burned down.

I wonder why sal did not cave though.It seemed against his character since he loved the neighborhood so much,i do agree though he was the most sympathetic.

> mookie did the right thing

Wouldn't the right thing have been to try to calm the mob down?

>Should've just called the police.
Oh yeah, the NYPD, known for their level headed approach to deescalating situations.

Then they would have accused him of being a traitor since he worked for sal

but would they have hurt him?

why didn't the eagles just fly the ring to mordor?

HE put the fucking food on his table and roof over his head by working and supplying a needed demand to the community. Some lazy retards who got welfare money did not put the food on his table.

Liberal retards trying to make sense of working life. Jfc a working man should be grateful because there exists a hole in the demand that hes filling? He would do something else if there was another demand, its not like his only option was opening a pizza store and he would be fucked if lazy people with welfare money didnt exist.

Probably,or accused him of being a piece of shit for not avenging his best friend.