Necessary: For decades, the US was accused of, and did, prop up dictators for our own purposes (tbf, as all other world powers do). It was used as a club against us. Bush proved that they didn't want freedom. It was a gamble, but the payoff of a democratic Iraq would have been enormous. The chance had to be taken, just once. The question had to be settled.
Justified: 9/10 of Americans wanted it. We had September 11, a beltway sniper, at least two other planes crashed into buildings, and mass-mailings of poison to political leaders. Saddam was paying bounties to suicide bombers and claiming WMD's, which we knew he'd used recently. Then, like now, we all agreed that something had to be done about those arabs. We were being attacked, and none one else could do it. Bill Clinton signed the removal of Saddam into US law.
All the western nations who opposed us (Germany, France, etc), Russia, plus UN SecGen Koffi and his son, made millions on saddams oil-for-food and/or selling weapons to him. That's why they opposed it. Euros are the only people since Japan in the 1930's, and the whole world in 1989, who have went to war specifically for oil.
Asher Peterson
Side benefits: Libya had an active nuke development program. Our Iraq invasion scared him. He gave it all to us. Remember the Lebanese street demostrations, demanding that the US invade them so they could have a free election?
Michael Perez
WMDs: 500 tons of uranium shipped from Iraq, Pentagon says - CNN www.cnn.com/2008/US/07/07/iraq.uranium/index.html?_s=PM:US Jul 07, 2008 ยท The United States secretly shipped out of Iraq more than 500 tons of ... of materials to Canada "Yellowcake" uranium ... be sent by truck to ...
WMDs: un.org/apps/news/printinfocusnews.asp?nid=354 The investigation of these rockets is still proceeding. Iraq states that they were overlooked from 1991 from a batch of some 2,000 that were stored there during the Gulf War. This could be the case. They could also be the tip of a submerged iceberg. The discovery of a few rockets does not resolve but rather points to the issue of several thousands of chemical rockets that are unaccounted for.
Jack Rodriguez
You must feel bad, knowing you were so wrong.
Gabriel Bell
It was a failure because once you commit to such a course you must go all in, even if it means having to occupy Iraq for a 100 years.
The main mistake wasnt dissolving the Iraqi army, btw. It was allowing parties based on sectarian lines. If parties are based more on demographics than ideological differences, democracy fractures. Something that the US will experience in coming decades.
Logan King
un.org/apps/news/printinfocusnews.asp?nid=354 WMDs: The nerve agent VX is one of the most toxic ever developed. Iraq has declared that it only produced VX on a pilot scale, just a few tonnes and that the quality was poor and the product unstable. Consequently, it was said, that the agent was never weaponised. Iraq said that the small quantity of agent remaining after the Gulf War was unilaterally destroyed in the summer of 1991. UNMOVIC, however, has information that conflicts with this account. There are indications that Iraq had worked on the problem of purity and stabilization and that more had been achieved than has been declared. Indeed, even one of the documents provided by Iraq indicates that the purity of the agent, at least in laboratory production, was higher than declared.
Landon Perez
>It was a failure because once you commit to such a course you must go all in You're right. That's why Bush had such low numbers, even with his supporters. >The main mistake wasnt dissolving the Iraqi army, btw. Probably not. The officer corps were brutal, almost subhuman. Tossing in a casual 'btw' is an ass move. Avoid it. >Something that the US will experience in coming decades. Opinions are like assholes, user.
Jeremiah James
>Opinions are like assholes, user. Women + people of color versus white males. Enjoy.
Parker Diaz
Afghanistan success: youtube.com/results?search_query=Task Force Devil New War on Terror Bush had it exactly right in Afghanistan. He used SpecOps to earn the respect of the local leaders. There was real success. Obama, ignoring all of history, decided on a full-scale invasion. He's killed thousands of American soldiers and Afghanis for his own political gain.
Xavier Powell
You're just a democrat talking point, aren't you? Don't you have morning prayer soon?
Jacob Watson
Cigar time. Then I'll prove to you that 'man-made global warming' is a scam.
John Hill
feel free to doubt that there is further polarization ahead of you as the white majority dwindles.
Angel Price
>It was a gamble, but the payoff of a democratic Iraq would have been enormous. What? No one cared about a democratic Iraq then and no one cares now.
Actually, the mistake the US made was not invading, the mistake was to disband the military and all the Bath party officials. If they had just handed the country over to the military and the Bath party after the invasion, there would have been zero problem and Iraq would have ended up a stable ally.
>Bill Clinton signed the removal of Saddam into US law. What's international law? For a country that is so much about law this law that, the US really fucking could care less about the law.
It was not justified under the law to invade Iraq and never will be.
We are paying dearly now for America's short sightedness. We are getting millions of Muslims. Thanks for killing Europe, Burgers. You will regret it in a few decades when we are a big Caliphate and you end up being a black-Hispanic-Muslim ruled country yourself.
Owen Hughes
regardless of motive or justification, the Iraq war is probably the greatest strategic blunder since the end of the Cold War. Iraq was once the bulwark against Iranian influence in the Arab Middle East. Removing Saddam and ensuing chaos and sectarian civil war crippled Iraq. Now Iran no longer has a counter balance in the region. In fact the Shia majority in Iraq has become very pro-Iranian and Tehran wields a great deal of influence in the Iraqi government. And that's not even mentioning the fact the power vacum in Northern Iraq has allowed the growth of IS.
Jace Scott
You don't understand genetics. Don't let school get in the way of an education, user. You're only cheating yourself.
Jose Edwards
germans are just fucking Arabic trash, lets not kid ourselves. THey have imported anti semites so they can crash their economy, go wiemar and declare a fourth reich. I hate germans so much. We should have killed them all when we had the chance
where's your country located again? please help me out, user.
Lincoln Sullivan
Did someone say spider thread?
Gabriel Flores
>What? No one cared about a democratic Iraq then and no one cares now. You may not, but people do. > the mistake was to disband the military and all the Bath party officials Our nazi friend tried that line. The military and 'Ba'ath' officials were murderous scum. Executing them would have been a better solution. >What's international law? The UN sec-gen was against it because he made money from saddam. The UN Human Rights Commission seats Best Korea and Syria. Enough said. >It was not justified under the law to invade Iraq and never will be. And bombing Germany in 1942 was illegal, too, right? No to both, champ. They attacked first. >We are getting millions of Muslims That's Obama. Electorates always swing in a Republic. That's why the US is such an unreliable ally.
Parker Lopez
women can't vote genius
Jaxon Cox
>Iraq was once the bulwark against Iranian influenc That was only going to last as long as Saddam lasted. Had they gone to civil war without the world's influence, it'd have been much worse. Millions dead. 'Normalcy bias' is thinking that what exists now will always exist. The ME was never stable.
Christopher Cooper
Someone said spider thread
Kayden Ward
...
Jaxson Cook
Iraq is mostly Shia and it borders Shia lead Iran If you give them democracy they're going to elect Shias who are Iran friendly
You could see that from the onset
The whole concept never made any sense if we're wanting to weaken and isolate Iran We gave them another ally
We should have put another Sunni strongman in place if we wanted to do anything
Jason Jenkins
Immigration today is much less disruptive than it was 100 years ago. The WASP majority called Eastern Europeans 'less than blacks', because they could blend in with real people. You don't understand history OR genetics, user. Please. Back to school.
Dylan Hernandez
It's one of the countries that destroyed you. Each of your posts is worse than the last.
Jason Campbell
Which people care about a 'democratic iraq'? I don't.
What Nazi friend? Are you saying Hitler didn't disband the Ba'ath party.
You realise the UN secretary general doesn't make international law? In fact the UN is barely connected to international law. Iraq did not attack anyone in 2003.
Angel Ortiz
We stabbed Saddam in the back after years of supporting his war crimes and helping him commit them
Justin Green
Iraq is meaningful today because our retarded Republican candidate is/was against it. Can we trust that his next decision won't be equally retarded? The bigger problem is global cooling. The ice is moving south. It's the end of the Holocene. And it's being made worse by, of course, leftists.
Ryan Mitchell
...
Isaac Sullivan
Oh son. Its all bout oil. Bush did 911.
Brandon Cooper
>Which people care about a 'democratic iraq'? I don't. Everyone who pays attention does care. Free countries very rarely go to war. >You realise the UN secretary general doesn't make international law? The UN opinion does matter, and the sec-gen has a lot of weight. > In fact the UN is barely connected to international law. Like your nazi line, this is too dumb to respond to, sorry. >Iraq did not attack anyone in 2003. They attacked the US and our ally, Israel. They had been for years. I shouldn't have to repeat news.
Christian Miller
> claiming WMD's, which we knew he'd used recently.
Chemical weapons are not WMDs and recently is a bit generous, he was using them while you were still supporting him.
Here is the true reason for the invasion, they had missiles which could reach Israel. After the war the had to have a range limit on any missiles just a bit short of Israel from their western border by pure coincidence.
Grayson Flores
The glaciers are coming back.
Levi Ramirez
>Necessary Yes, opening up those fields at the cost of untold US blood and treasure for Chinese concerns was really necessary for the US national interest.
>Justified Yeah that is why it didn't fulfill any traditional conception of jus ad bellum and totally not illegal
There was never any chance of a democratic Iraq given the atrocious level of post war planning.
The whole thing was an ill conceived and self destructive clusterfuck.
David Russell
It all comes down to skin color. The USA has managed to melt differences between ethnicities. But it has not managed to do so with people having different color of skin. And it will continue to fail doing so.
I am destroyed? I look pretty complete. Anyway, seems like you're someone stuck in the middle of nowhere, so why should I care?
Nathan Gutierrez
>Chemical weapons are not WMDs Then we're done here, Mr. Einstein. >he was using them while you were still supporting him. We, and your country, supported him. To some extent. Not to that extent. >Here is the true reason for the invasion, they had missiles which could reach Israel He was missiling Israel in the 1990 war. That wasn't new. The long-range missiles were a concern because of oil tankers and the destruction of the world economy.
Asher Murphy
>chemical weapons are not WMDs
cmon son
Dylan Smith
>Free countries very rarely go to war. Democratic peace theory a shit. Free countries have started or escalated numerous wars in the last two decades, including the case under examination here.
>They attacked the US and our ally, Israel Lel whut? They attacked Israel during the Invasion that the US started. With scuds. Which landed in uninhabited desert. Because they are shit tier weapons.
You are aware that Iraq doesn't even share a land border with Israel right?
You shouldn't repeat 'news' based on total bullshit user. You are better than this.
Luke Clark
>Yes, opening up those fields Fields? >at the cost of untold US blood and treasure No one talks like that, arrrr, matey? Dumbass. It tells everyone not to take you seriously. The rest of your autistic rant is about your opinion. Guess what? No one cares. Fucking lefty. Leave your emotions at home and let the men do the governing, ok?
Leo Wilson
>you may not, but people do. No one in America ever cared about democracy in Iraq. That is just a bs meme. Iraq doesn't have a functioning democracy now and never will have one.
>The military and 'Ba'ath' officials were murderous scum. Executing them would have been a better solution. Are you literally retarded? The Baath party officials were to 95% civil servant bureaucrats who kept Iraq running. Same with the military, they were just normal people... then good old America came in and created the biggest Islamic insurgent movement the world has ever seen by putting half a million people out of a job who had political connections and weapons training.
>The UN sec-gen was against it because he made money from saddam. Who cares about the Secretary General? He does not make any laws.
>The UN Human Rights Commission seats Best Korea and Syria. Enough said. Who cares about hte UNHCR? They do not make international law either.
>And bombing Germany in 1942 was illegal, too, right? No, it wasn't. Under international law, if a country declares war on another country, that other country is allowed to retaliate.
Under the UN charter, which was adopted after 1942, that principle has not changed. But Iraq did not attack the US. And there was no Chapter 7 resolution which allowed the US invasion. Thus the invasion was illegal.
>>We are getting millions of Muslims >That's Obama. No, that is directly linked to the Afghanistan war and the Iraq war. We get more Afghans fleeing the American caused war there than Syrians. But we still also get a shit ton of Iraqis and Syrians. And we were the FUCK NEUTRAL. We even protested that America was violating our airspace constantly during the Iraq invasion.
Jaxson Parker
>It all comes down to skin color. The sun will darken you. Lack of sun will lighten you. Albinos are gods to you, I guess. >I am destroyed? Mentally, yes. You don't seem capable of logical thought. All of your comments are about emotion and feelz.
Adam Peterson
They didn't have any chemical weapons retard. Hans Blix and Scott Ritter both said as much.
> To some extent. Not to that extent. You gave them weapons, loans and funding to defeat the Iranians, which they failed to do. You were balls deep in that clusterfuck bro.
>He was missiling Israel in the 1990 war. How many fatalities came from him dropping high explosive on desterts?
Seriously, how many Israelis died as a result of scuds? None, that is how many.
Also, over a decade past between Iraqi aggression against anyone and your aggression against Iraq.
Christopher Rodriguez
>Free countries have started or escalated numerous wars You're wrong and stupid. Iraq started this and waged war on us for over a decade before we responded. >They attacked Israel during the Invasion that the US started No, that's when they stopped. Before, Saddam paid bounties to the families of jihadis. You are completely ignorant of facts. You're just another bundle of emotion to deal with.
Levi Richardson
>Baath party officials They were Sunnis, right?
Alexander Murphy
>Fields Oil fields retard
>No one talks like that, arrrr, matey?
Oh look, and economist article and a Council of foreign relations article that use that exact terminology, dumbass
>No one in America ever cared about democracy in Iraq. Sorry, Austria. I'm not reading further. You don't know what we cared about. If your first statement was so wrong, why read the rest?
Lincoln Cox
inform me when albinos or tanned people are a porn category of significance. until then it matters whether you are white, black, asian, latino, etc.
>Mentally, yes. You don't seem capable of logical thought. All of your comments are about emotion and feelz. I'm feeling fine, don't worry.
Kevin Fisher
I was 16 seconds on the edge expecting the spider to bite without even reading the filename.
Nathan Young
Democratic peace theory is a shit >Mali >Wars in the FRY >Iraq >Lybia Yeah I am really buying your opinion based bullshit from theories that were discredited 10 years ago
>No, that's when they stopped No its actually not. All the scud attacks occurred after the US moved to liberate Kuwait, which was justified IMO.
Do you have anything except under conceptualised jingoistic bullshit?
Jaxson Young
>They didn't have any chemical weapons retard. Read the UN report, sir. The link is above, along with quotes from it. >You gave them weapons You did, too. We helped the Russians who, within three years, pointed nukes at us. Life is tough. The rest of your comments show you don't know anything that happened between 1991-2003. It's ok to be ignorant here, anonymously. But don't try this IRL.
Tyler Hernandez
>If your first statement was so wrong, why read the rest? Because you know, I am right. Americans have never and will never care about installing democracy anywhere. Americans don't even know what democracy is.
Nolan Baker
If they cared about democracy, why didn't they spend any money to do it properly?
Remeber a guy called Shinseki? Who got fired for telling the US what would be involved in securing the post war order?
They may have cared to the extent they thought some fantasy which ignored the most decorated military planners was actually reality.
Michael Sanders
>>Fields >Oil fields retard I knew what you meant, I just didn't think you were this dumb. >Oh look, and economist article That was political, princess. Not for serious discussion. Because they know your type responds to inflammatory speech. That's why Hitler and the Sov leaders pounded the podiums. Have some dignity. Use precise speech to get your points across. Or be exposed as a ...
Bentley Clark
Relink.
And as I said, both Hans Blix and Scot Ritter, who were both UN weapons inspectors, with one being affiliated with the CIA are on record saying they didn't have weapons.
In muy extensive research on this shit, there was one hole in the ground filled with degrading chemicals was the closest thing they had to chemical weapons.
And a pile of toxic sludge isn't a weapon...
Elijah Edwards
I have read untold journal articles which have used that exact terminology.
Not recognizing it as common terminology in relation to this case shows how little you have read.
Benjamin White
> We, and your country, supported him. To some extent. Not to that extent.
The whole western apparatus was supporting him, The media wasn't reporting, the UN ignored everything, the CIA started giving Iraq satellite intel after they knew he had used mustard gas, then they continued providing intel after he used Sarin gas based on their initial intel, then they continued after he targeted the Kurds with it. Oh and we provided him with all the dual use shit long after we knew what he was doing with it too.
Chemical weapons lack the M in WMD. Biological weapons and Nuclear weapons are the only WMDs.
Liam Peterson
kek, well played. Can't wait till we dunk those fucking arab/aryan faggots again. Grandaddy would be proud
Eli Howard
you can stay at home, sissy, in the camp
Charles Wright
>Democratic peace theory is a shit None of those are US wars except Iraq. Only in Iraq did we try the democracy bit. So, wrong again. >All the scud attacks occurred after the US moved to liberate Kuwait Yes. As I said...1990. You said it happened in 2003. Now I have to correct you from a few minutes ago? Are you even conscious?
Angel Ramirez
What does this even mean?
I can go where ever I want becasue I am not gutter trash from a freezing works town being crippled by closures and meth.
Caleb Price
...
Thomas Ross
> muh Aryans > muh fourth Reich-Around
get gassed faggot
Mason Williams
They were all led by free countries. US doesn't have a monopoly of 'freedom' you know?
>You said it happened in 2003. No I didn't, because I never thought that.
In 2003 they had been crippled by sanctions for so long they couldn't even launch an infected chicken with a trebuchet.
David Morales
I would like to see a Country invading USA, blame them for some bullshit offense, not present any evidence at all, create anarchy, steal all resources and on top of it kill 3 million innocent civilians, then see what your reaction is if someone have the FUCKING guts to say publicly it was """""necessary""""".
Fuck this world, will there ever be any justice......
Kevin Allen
If you can't wait, what's keeping you from coming over now? Today? Are you waiting until more people are going to come so you can hide behind them? You're such a brave man.
Ryder Jackson
Again? what does this even mean?
I don't back Iraq and Saddam was a shit. But the invasion was a crime and it was primarily one of incompetence.
Jaxson Powell
>If they cared about democracy, why didn't they spend any money to do it properly? Who is 'they'? Iraq and the US put a lot into it. No one else mattered. >Remeber a guy called Shinseki? Monday morning quarterbacking is easy. No one knew then what we know now. There were other military who went with the Bush plan. Which is my point. This had to be done at least once, with those people. Now, when some Austrian says 'durr US shoulnd't support that el salvador dictator' we can say, 'Tough. Iraq taught us this is the only way to go.'
Lincoln Brown
Top of the page. You can't miss it.
Noah Moore
How is that about feelings. It is true and clear to everyone who isn't blinded by propaganda due to feelings of outright jingoistic retardation.
Nor should they, they should care about US national interest, which is also a test failed by the 2003 invasion.
FFS even George Bush Snr saw the danger in trying to occupy Iraq in the 90s, despite being urged on by the same neo-con dickwads who 'masterminded' 2003.
Austin Anderson
>I have read untold journal articles which have used that exact terminology. All political. No one says 'blood and treasure' and you know it. Go outside. Find someone. Try it in a sentence. They'll think you're a freak.
Bentley Barnes
They is the US. When Shinseki said you would need at least 300k troops to secure the country after invasion he was shitcanned by his political (ie non-military) masters.
The US administration was lost so far up its own ass it wasn't even listening to its own guys when they said things they didn't want to hear.
>No one knew then what we know now. There were other military who went with the Bush plan.
And even the poster boy Colin Powell was pretty bitter about how he was used.
For what it is worth, I was writing A grad papers predicting exactly what would happen. In 2003. As an undergrad in NZ.
It was clear as day you guys were going to shit the bed.
Asher Parker
>then they continued after he targeted the Kurds with it I don't doubt that, but I'd need sources before I believe it. If you believe it without evidence, say so. So we can see if you're a leftist.
>Bush proved that they didn't want freedom. Stopped reading there.
Oliver Cox
Yeah it's pretty much USA/NATO that should be getting invaded they are the mastermind behind all this mess.
It's still happening right now to this day, Syria and Ukraine, let alone the covert wars currently taking place in South America, Middle East, Africa, China, Russia.
To give saddam chemical weapons to gas Iranians, then invade Iraq cause chemical weapons are bad is a fuking insult to everyone.
It's sick and has the idea of world domination
Jason Perry
Yup. So was making it 54th state of USA rather than leaving them with their devices.
