So was Chuck right all along?

>So was Chuck right all along?
>After tonights episode, how could you favor Jimmy as a good character?
>Or is he an anti hero?

>tfw I still haven't seen the latest episode of this or twin peaks because I watch them with my friend who is a nigger and keeps getting too hungover to wake up at a decent time before I work

Neither Chuck nor Jimmy is 'good'; both are flawed. Chuck plays by the rules but is immoral, and Jimmy disregards the rules, often to obtain a more moral end - at least as his interests are concerned. But Jimmy's behaviour also illustrates why we have rules (laws): they keep people from relativising morality for their own selfish ends.

One of the things this show does well is it uses compelling characters to examine deeper philosophical quandaries - in this case the age old law versus morality debate.

But getting back to your point, Jimmy - now well into his transformation to Saul Goodman - is a bad person, just as Walter White was in Breaking Bad. He knows he's doing wrong, but he does it anyway - simply because he likes it.

Who cares if he's a "good" character?

I think con artists are cool as fuck and want him to do shady shit. It just makes me like him more.

>Vince is literally making a walter white arc again

The tension the dialogues carry is the best part of the show.
>That Chuck-Hamlin scene
>Nacho and his father
I felt I could have cried.

His name is Sneed now.

It's the same as BB where the protagonist becomes the antagonist over the course of the show, just not quite as dark.

>I felt I could have cried
haha you little bitch want to cry? wah wah haha loser go eat your tampons

So far...

>tfw Chuck enlists the help of Jimmy and his scoundrel tactics to take down HHM
>tfw Howard enlists the help of Jimmy and his scoundrel tactics to take down Chuck

I felt really bad for Irene, even if it was just a short term thing.

Irene is an old bitch who had it coming. 100% guarantee because of her age she's a Trump supporter. So you shouldn't feel bad

Until Jimmy lets Chuck joke to death on vomit in his sleep.

>Neither Chuck nor Jimmy is 'good'; both are flawed. Chuck plays by the rules but is immoral, and Jimmy disregards the rules, often to obtain a more moral end - at least as his interests are concerned. But Jimmy's behaviour also illustrates why we have rules (laws): they keep people from relativising morality for their own selfish ends.

i don't see vince trying to follow the textbook on dualism. If it were then I don't think the show would be as good as it is.

No, vince is doing a better job of what he did with walter white. While WW went through a transformation, you never got as personally invested in him as you do with Jimmy.

Jimmy is a flawed character because he has no problem taking advantage of suckers, finding shortcuts, and generally playing by his own rules. He's a fun character and he's got a lot of drive and a big heart.

You initially fall in love with him and identify with him when he breaks the rules because the system is rigged anyway, right?

The beauty of this show is that YOU ALREADY KNOW that he's going to become a completely crooked lawyer with no moral compass.

That duality Team Chuck vs Team Jimmy or chaos vs order or light vs dark bullshit doesn't apply here. Chucks an pompous asshole who pushed his brother to retaliate by doing what he knows best. Don't overcomplicate it, just enjoy the sausage-making process.

Fuck off jimmy, leave Irene alone

I licked those cookies I gave her

Calm down Rosie you greedy jew, she's gonna sign it.

They're both 2 pieces of shit really.

>Dumb as bricks
Would probably die and not see any money if the case isn't settled.
>Inconsiderate
Never told her friends about the offer or asked their opinion.

Her stupidity and obliviousness are almost as bad as Jimmy's actions.

I don't see that we really disagree here. My point still stands that both characters are flawed, but they are flawed in different ways. Chuck is vindictive in a way that Jimmy simply is not, but Jimmy has no qualms ignoring the rules, i.e. laws, to get ahead or just have some fun being a con man. Furthermore, just because we know Jimmy is going to turn out rotten doesn't mean that he's already at this point. There is a progression towards evil here and, just like with Walt, Jimmy rationalises his illegal and often immoral behaviour, despite knowing full well that he acts the way he does because he enjoys being a con man.

Her stupidity and obliviousness are exactly why she deserves what she gets. Just be lucky it's someone as nice as Jimmy who did all the heavy lifting and is still watching out for all those old ladies as a whole, even if they are the 2nd priority

She's a senior citizen, not an idiot. And Jimmy did what he did for his own benefit. Really can't defend his actions.

>in this case the age old law versus morality debate.
This is only a dichotomy in your D&D games. Everyone knows morality is relative and the law is just the stuff we can all agree on ("we" being the majority of any given country).

>The beauty of this show is that YOU ALREADY KNOW that he's going to become a completely crooked lawyer with no moral compass.
>show is called Breaking Bad
>hur dur I wonder where they're going with this

It's a decent show but let's not get ahead of ourselves. It's pretty much BB minus the explosions. It's about as deep as a puddle.

We often agree on a moral principle but disagree when it is absolutely applied as written law.

>tfw Jimmy takes the best from both worlds, cashses out, and becomes Saul

If it's a moral principle then it should be absolutely applied every time without exception. Can you give me an example of what you're talking about?

Most people would agree that keeping your word, whether written or spoken, is the right thing to do. However, in contract law there is considerable disagreement regarding the extent to which individuals should be able to rely on their strict contractual rights to prevent someone from backing out of an agreement. This would be the case where one party had more knowledge or expertise than the other. Morality and its application in law is not as clear cut as you think.

Hence my point that Chuck is immoral despite staying within the confines of the law. This show isn't simply using the law as a prop, the law is part of the message.

yeah we don't really dissagree but the dichotomy stuff doesn't fit.

I'm not a drama/film/literary scholar or anything, but I think that chuck and kim could be consider foils. Chck s vindictive where Jimmy isn't (or wasn't... you could argue that Jimmy has reverted to Slippin' Jimmy and is becoming Saul). I think that Jimmy is going to eventually have Chuck committed and fans of the show will hate him for it. Look at the boards last night, anons were crying about how they feel sorry for Chuck as if they don't know who Jimmy will become.

And as for Kim, she follows the rules just like Chuck and is very hard working just like Jimmy. I'm guessing that she is ultimately going to break ties with Jimmy when he finally crosses that line and she can no longer justify being associated with him or even knowing him.

Jimmy railing Francesca when?

>as if they don't know who Jimmy will become.

Why do all of you treat Saul as though he's going to become a villain?

Maybe I just don't seem to remember him killing people in BB?
He helped launder some money, so what? Doesn't make him a bad person.

There are two separate moral principles at play here: full disclosure and keeping your word. Obviously if you were given a raw deal then you should be able to opt out of it. The question here is whether the contract constitutes a raw deal, which is dependent on the circumstances. The principle is the same, it's the amount of evidence and the power of your defense team that varies. Not saying the court always gets it right, but that's due to human error, not the law being too flexible.

>he can't remember the multiple times he recommended sending people to Belize

No. Jog my memory.

Is "sending people to Belize" an American saying for "killing people"?

Yes you fucking retard that is made abundantly clear in Breaking Bad.

refresh my memory, what was Saul's first suggestion with how to handle Badger?
This very soon after telling him he'd get him out of prison?

That, and I don't remember him practicing elder law in BB, so don't count on him not screwing over the old people

Yeah, that shit was heart breaking.

>joke to death

>the law is just the stuff we can all agree on
jej

Either way, I don't remember him personally killing people.

You can recommend it all you want, but the only bad person is the one who follows through on it.

You guys need to learn some morality.

according to THE LAW it does m8.

Oh boo hoo, he made some old lady upset in order to get money he was owed. Big fucking deal, why are people treating this like Jimmy went into that retirement home and shot it up or something? Was what he did morally wrong? Yes, but it was for his own good, and for the good of the people in the retirement home who were already old, and not likely to live long enough to see that money anyways. At least now they'll see it. It also has the bonus of fucking over HMM even more and thus Chuck.

The point is that the law does not perfectly encapsulate what each individual, or even a random sample of individuals in a given society, would consider morally proper conduct. To say that one is 'staying one step ahead of the law' implies that one is acting legally but nonetheless engaging in immoral conduct. Conversely, sometimes we feel it is unjust for individuals to face legal punishment - for instance, in controversial self-defence cases - but we still follow the law.

Just because something is illegal doesn't make you a bad person for doing it.

Jaywalking even in the middle of the night, when there are no cars around is still a crime. Do you think if you do that, you're morally a bad person? No. Don't be an idiot.

Ok, assuming you're right, which you aren't, but assuming you are, then let's just say that Jimmy becomes the type of lawyer that everyone except dirty criminals hates.

He's already been a bottom feeder, now he's going to just become an actual criminal with a law degree.

THE LAW

And Walt cooked meth for his family... We all know how ridiculous that excuse was. Kim told Jimmy she would cover his rent, but he wouldn't let her. True, he tried to make the money himself out of pride, but an honest person would have accepted her offer once it became clear that the only alternative to get the money was conning old people.

Kind of a moot point. You're saying that just because a person commits a crime they're not a bad person, just a person who committed a crime.

ok, but we already know that Saul Goodman is a bad person as established in BB

I made the mistake of looking at Bob Odenkirk's twitter.

Was Saul drinking the same brand of alcohol that gus gives to don eladio?

>her face when she see's ernestos bbc

tell me what scarred your retinas user

>where did he hid the pill bottle?
Hispanics tend to have smaller than average cocks

Yes.

>it's the Jimmy slowly becomes the antihero season

>WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH SOMEONE DOESN'T CONFORM TO MY RETARDED POLITICAL STANCES! DROPPED! FUCKING LEFTIST LIBKEK LIBRULS PRAISE KEK XD

I dislike my 'celebs' being all preachy on the politics regardless of what side they are on.

twitter was a mistake.

whelp, looks like I'm on team Chuck permanently

>killing a degenerate drug dealer who confuses DS9 and Voyager lore makes you a villain

>It's another Lydia episode

So you were basically... "triggered?" Might want to get back to your safe space over at Sup Forums.

How did Kim's car jump forward in time like that?

>old people are just a game to me
Vince is exposing the boomer menace, don't feel bad for old people

>ok, but we already know that Saul Goodman is a bad person as established in BB

That was never established.

You guys have just been brainwashed by the "lawyers are evil" trope

Not triggered enough to save a directory of 'kek' images my friend.

Please feel free to mash another hilarious reply out on your keyboard with your fat fingers.

So, Chuck's actor was also the voice of the Alien King that Roger cucked?

Does he ever play a non-cucked character?

>The point is that the law does not perfectly encapsulate what each individual, or even a random sample of individuals in a given society, would consider morally proper conduct

It was never meant to, that's not even possible. It is simply majority rule. That some will find a way to cover their tracks is neither here nor there. It's morality vs morality, not law vs morality. Again, false dichotomy.

they actually do look really alike apart from the eyes, based on facial features. ignore skin color

not the case. You're just one of those people that likes to go down with the ship.

so now that I've seen what you have to say:

Wtf, I love Saul Goodman now!

she fell asleep, but vince is such a master mind that he filmed the scene from the PoV of the driver who fell asleep at the wheel without knowing they fell asleep

I don't think good people leave behind their old life and get a new identity so they can work in a Cinnabon on the other side of the country

>Please feel free to mash another hilarious reply out on your keyboard with your fat fingers.
Best not to project this hard user.

>seriously using the old, tired "people who work in the glazed cinnamon roll are immoral" argument

I always cringe when that's brought up

Me too, Jimmy making everyone hating on her was fucking over the line, felt too close at home for some reason

Working at Cinnabon in and of itself isn't immoral. Being forced to adopt a new identity and work at Cinnabon because you were the lawyer for the biggest meth kingpin in America and helped him commit tons of crimes so you have to hide for the rest of your life or else you are going to prison for a very long time means you are immoral.

>tfw a point will come where kim actively works against jimmy
i don't want it to happen, bros

All things considered Jimmy acted in the best interest of not only himself but the Sandpiper clients as well. The only people who really (financially) lost here are the lawyers at HHM.

Why? Because he upset Irene for a week? Money now is better than money later, especially when you're 80-something. Sure, his primary motive was getting his cut but he also helped those folks.

One thing that bothered me was how he rigged the bingo though. He's alone up there with one little assistant. Why not just call Irene's numbers regardless of what comes up? Same with the shoes - an entire truck full of sizes just so he can make one little off-hand comment about Irene's "new shoes"? What happens if Irene forgets his request and mentions Jimmy gave her the shoes? Now he's outed as a liar.

You might argue Jimmy enjoys the manipulation more than the end result itself but his lack of practicality always ruins the realism for me.

>it's a howard talks with a monotone voice episode

What did Vince mean by this?

yes yes, but will we see Jimmy rail Francesca?

>moot
That word doesn't mean what you think it means.

>all of these people arguing that saul isn't a bad person in BB because they fell for his charm and slick presentation
BRAVO VINCE

Anti-hero would be a guy with good intentions but bad methods.

Jimmy is turning from an Anti-villain (shitty goals with muddled to acceptable-to-the-audience methods OR barring that good charisma at a bare minimum) to a true villain (shitty intentions, unlikable to the audience at large, morally reprehensible methods)

people that do this should be permabanned

@83886886
I figured I was gonna get upvoted for using it

Shouldn't be allowed to have more than three post hyperlinks in any post. Make Sup Forums great again.

I like it, I'm tired of media that's selling point is the protagonist is a bad guy but he's actually got admirable goals or is striving against someone worse than him. Meanwhile Saul is just a selfish shithead.

He was always a piece of shit just like everyone else in the show on some level. Whether it's "destiny" or his own selfish reactions to the world fucking him over in a variety of ways Saul Goodman is the real Jimmy McGill and now we see him coming back.

man I just got it

Saul Goodman

>it's all good, man

I don't watch this show so maybe they said it or something but like

woah

no idea what you're talking about

it's just a name, don't look too much into it

this

t. brainlet

The reason electricity hurts Chuck is because he has powers. He was able to teleport her car across space. Kim dying will be key to him defeating HHM.

Are there any other clues BCS takes place in the Legion universe?

Just finished Nacho owning up to his father, feeling pretty bummed out now.

Damn, I don't want to watch the latest episode brehs, I like Jimmy.

How about finish the fucking episode, you piece of shit, no one wants your play by play.

Just saying, nobody seems to be mentioning it.

jimmy wanted that cash bad

Why is everyone acting like Jimmy wasn't already the anti-hero?

He's been slipping Jimmy since the first ep