How the fuck does the joker ever even get any hits on batman? from what i can tell...

how the fuck does the joker ever even get any hits on batman? from what i can tell, the joker was just a failed comedian turned insane, fighting a dude with a complete mastery of all martian arts. there should be no fight at all. i get that he can take hostages and shit, which may prevent batman from getting him, but whenever he and the joker duke it out 1v1, joker always gets some shots in. he should be taken out with extreme ease

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I think it's kinda like how Taskmaster has a hard time with Deadpool. I think the Joker is supposed to come off as too insane and unpredictable to really anticipate, allowing him to get some lucky shots in.

Plus he's been sandbagging the whole time. He's REALLY patient.

Sometimes I wonder if comicbook writers just stop for a second and go "No, this wouldn't fool a ten year old."

It doesn't make sense and you're spending more time thinking about it than the writers.

Punching and stabbing each other is how they have sex, user.

Bad writing.
Batman is a trained martial artists and fighter. Joker is just crazy. Any legit fight should end up with Joker unconscious in seconds.

Deadpool's also a trained assassin.

so, like, any time at all? he should be the weakest and easiest to defeat out of all batman's enemies. like, he can take out killer croc or fucking deadshot quicker than the joker

In comic books, InSaNiTy trumps martial arts everytime, why is this so difficult to comprehend?

How totally original and never seen before

Some writers do portray him as a shitty fighter, with the conflict being if Batman can actually CATCH him.
But the times he's a match for Batman are typically because he's god an insanely high pain tolerance, has a fighting style so weird that even Cassandra Cain once got sick just looking at him move, and being surprisingly fast.

Ideally you prevent it from being a physical fight most of the story and it should be a one punch knockout thrown in at the end instead of some legitimate fight.

welcome

>so, like, any time at all? he should be the weakest and easiest to defeat out of all batman's enemies.

Come on user, you're ignoring Penguin, Two-Face, and Riddler.

He can hit fucking midnighter.

All we know is the Joker fell into a vat of chemicals, anything else is just speculation. And in New 52 he was the criminal mastermind if the red hood gang

i was literally thinking of two face when i wrote that. i could buy the riddler as being an okay fighter, with him being super smart and all, giving him some "sherlock holmes vision" or something, and penguin has his umbrella, which could pose a threat too

The Joker is actually a very tallented fighter, who relies on speed (bats comments occasionally how even he underestimates how fast he his), dirty tricks, and weaponry to even the odds against a better trained and physically stronger fighter. Batman always wins in a straight up fist fight, but Joker always has something up his sleeve.

There's three Jokers so maybe the Endgame one was actually a good fighter before becoming the Joker.

Between a life of crime and being in and out of prisons/asylums, Joker can gain plenty of experience in real-world fighting, which martial arts often aren't particularly great at. Most systems are still very back-and-forth, tournament-style, until you get into shit like Krav Maga. Lots of particularly technical moves can also be pretty easy to read coming. Even with a trained martial artist versus as street hood, you can expect a few shots to land.

>Whoa, his fighting style is so unpredictable because he's so craaaazy!

Kill me.

Keep in mind Joker can fend off heroes well above Batman's power level

Booster Gold found that out the hard way.

Because it's retarded.

>H-He's fast!

It's comics

>and being surprisingly fast.
In the DKR the Joker has a very fast reaction.

>writers keep writing Joker as CUH-RAY-ZAAAAAY WOOO HOW UNPREDICTABLE WHOA

While reading The Last Crusade, it made me realize how I absolutely loathe how obnoxious Joker has become. TLC was probably the best and most tolerable Joker I've read in forever.

>It's bad comics.

ftfy

Him being fast at least make some sense, though that still wouldn't be enough to push a guy who literally has mastery over every martial art to his limits.

because he's a fictional character whose fighting prowess entirely depends on who's writing him.

accurate depiction of bats vs joker.

youtube.com/watch?v=AVuWvPg_bKo

What happened?

Booster Gold?

He kept going back in time to stop Joker from shooting Barbara but Joker beat the crap out of him.

No it's just comics

This is the same man who taught a gorilla Warfare

It's really depressing how they had to bring back in the businness a 60 yo on the verge of death for us to have a good Batman story again.

>complete mastery of all martian arts
>martian arts

But that was fucking retarded and remains retarded when applied to Batman in sheer speed and physical ability Joker should never be able to hit Batman
Taskmaster's does not rely on knowing someone's fighting style to beat them otherwise he would not be able to beat anyone he hadn't seen before.

Rekt across space and time

>too insane and unpredictable
That reasoning doesn't make sense. Unpredictable bullshit doesn't yield advantageous stances. Supposedly "skilled" fighters should be able to capitalize on the multitude of openings that a flailing doofus would present, unless they're just too slow to react.

that was literally DA UNIVERSE fucking his ass though

.... Why the fuck have Joker and this monkey never teamed up with Monsieur Mallah and the Brain?

god, Johns is such a fanboy jerkoff faggot

That was solidified time beating him not the Joker

>Johns cares about Batman shit

This is new for Sup Forums to say

>No it's just comics

No it's not you fucking scrub, if you think that's how Joker has always been written you know jackshit.
BTAS, Kane and Finger, Burton and even the Adam West show had him unable to pose a serious threat to Batman physically, he had to use weapons to even hope to hurt him in a fight, it's only in the last decades that he has become a fighter because writers are unable to write shit that isn't action anymore.

That wasn't the Joker's ability so much as it was hardened time preventing him from making things happen differently.

I blame all my hatred for the Joker on this movie. I don't want to sound like I'm mad that people like things that I like, but I honestly am not a huge DC fan.

Everyone thought this performance was SOOOOOO amazing, and it was. Definitely a new take on the Joker, but like ok now let's move the fuck on. If he never died, I seriously think this "too crazy for batman" wouldn't be the standard now

>extreme mastery of all martian arts
>martian arts

Christ I feel stupid for laughing so hard at this.

/r/ing a picture of batman painting a portrait of the Martian Manhunter

>b-b-but the joker's pretty fast guys!
>batman kicking supe's ass several times over

Well, that or the writers lack the creativity required to do their own take on the character.

jesus fuck where's that pic from? I'm terrified

It's the Joker in the live-action version of the "Blue Beetle and his chums" show.

The Tonight Show with Jay Leno

PUT THAT SHIT ON THE COVER

THE KIDS LOVE THE MONKEYS

Because then a man in clown makeup would be no threat to batman. The biggest problem with joker is they scaled him down instead of up. Instead of making him a deranged murder clown boogeyman, the writers shouldve gone back to gang leader joker and gave him a psuedo joker family to combat Batman's growing number of allys and ever increasing super tech. Joker needs an upgrade

I don't know how enamored he is with the batman lore, but this reads like fanfiction written by an edgemaster teenager who only has superficial understanding of Moore's work.
Which perfectly explains Rebirth, really

BIIIG BAAAD BEETLEBORGS

But that's even dumber.

>Joker needs an upgrade
Immortal god of chaos that can outfight top martial artists isn't enough of an upgrade?

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuck that stuff is scary

>Booster Gold
>The guy who had to pay off villains to throw the fight so he could look like a hero
>Above Batman's power level

should have matched his wit, not his muscle.

Sometimes you just let your girlfriend win to make them feel loved.

Deadpool is a skilled fighter, he's skilled enough to bring the fight into the meta-game as it were, this is where he is able to beat task master, in terms of the strategy, he sees openings and strategies that a reasonable man like task master could not. He's not random, he's unorthodox.

The problem is that writers forget that the reason the Joker is threatening is because of his plans and weapons. His plans are effective until a hero catches him, at that point he has to rely on death traps he set up and the like (in other words, prep time).
But writers want to have him fight one-on-one with Batman, even though it makes no fucking sense.
It becomes even worse when he fights characters other than Batman, they have to come up with the biggest contrivances for him to pose a threat. And it becomes EVEN WORSE when they have other villains, even superhumans, talk about how much the Joker scares them.
It's an example of letting out-of-universe popularity dictate the story even if it makes no sense.

That's just the thing. We have no idea what the Joker's background is. That whole scene from Killing Joke was probably him imagining the whole thing. He doesn't even know his origin. As far as we know he could have even trained with Bruce before he went completely insane.

Maybe you should read the damn comic, it pretty much states why through words.

>Keep in mind there have been comics even more retarded.

>Joker needs an upgrade
You mean like that time Spectre tried to judge him, but Joker is so crazy that he stole Spectre's powers and became the right hand of God?

Yeah, if your enemy is being unpredictable, it means he's not doing the moves you'd expect him to do, meaning he is not doing the moves that would prove most advantegous, meaning he is doing inefficient attacks and leaving himself open.

Perfect example of the Joker, the Joker Fish. He poisons Gothams fish to resemble him so he can get copyright royalties.

Except in their fight he specifically moved in random ways to beat out Tasky's "photographic muscle memory."

The point was that Booster couldn't change events that had solidified in history or time itself would stop him.

>average moorefag
>it's deeper than face value, guys! alan moore leaves it up to the reader's interpretation on what really happened!

this is the reason i hate alan moore

The Joker is literally an agent of chaos. Maybe supernatural.

If I were a writer, I'd justify it in a few ways:

-Joker has years of experience in fighting
-Joker's broken mind lets him push his body faster than a person should be, harming himself in the process. Like how Taskmaster could recreate martial arts watched sped-up on VHS
-He can ignore pain and strain
-He's smart and very capable when it comes to planning and tactics. This could justify why bigger power-level villains invite him to their schemes and shit, like why Batman is invited

>hating something because of its fans

If I were a writer I'd just avoid him getting into fights like this altogether. The Joker is more threatening as a puppet mastre using death traps, bombs and weapons. Once he's within punching range of a hero, he should go down immediately.

>I want to be treated like a child and have everything explained to me.

The fact that the Joker's past is a mystery is what makes him a good character and scary as shit. Also, interpretation leaves room for everyone to have a different take away from a story that can be discussed.

Speedforce Joker when?

>from what i can tell, the joker was just a failed comedian turned insane
You see, the point is that you can't tell that.

Then you're an idiot. he should be threatening and should be able to put down people with knives. He shouldn't be ultra competent in a fight but he should be fast and crazy enough that he can somewhat ignore pain and take a punch to the face while stabbing you. And sneaky, he should lunge at you with his knives while you've been beaten and exhausted. Making him just a planner is a waste and not what Joker is.

Somebody tweet Johns

In that very scene in your OP, Joker claimed that he'd never really gone all out fighting Batman, but now he was done holding back, and Bruce's internal monologue confirmed this.

I fucking hate Snyder's Batman run.

He should be a threatening fighter, but not against Batman or any other hero, unless as you said Batman is beaten and exhausted.

yeah, only threatening to robins.

This, he should be able to tangle with anyone short of a special forces operative

>Then you're an idiot

Not him, but you're the retard here.

>Making him just a planner is a waste and not what Joker is.

It's what the Joker has been for decades.

Go to sleep, you have school tomorrow.

joker's past isnt a mystery. it was explained in the killing joke. it's not like the joker ever even told batman his origin ever, it was done in a flashback that only the reader could see. so it wasnt "up to interpretation" at all. also, having the chemical plant being next to a playing card factory was some of the most cringeworthy writing ever. like, he just HAD to throw that connection in there, as if it had jack shit to do with him losing his mind

No user, that was Joker remember, that's why the scenes were triggered by the Joker looking at something. Clearly this was a scene unfolding in his mind. Which he later reveals to be completely faulty.

>was the Joker remembering*

God I'm fucking tired.

>unless as you said Batman is beaten and exhausted.
So...you agree 100% with what I said

Right but this was on the strategic level. He was still one step ahead.

>Taskmaster's does not rely on knowing someone's fighting style to beat them otherwise he would not be able to beat anyone he hadn't seen before.

But that's exactly how Taskmaster fights retard. He watches videos of someone or watches them fight someone else on the field.

reminder that joker somehow managed to catch deathstroke off guard

Learn to type, you spazz.

It's almost like they've told every Batman story worth telling and are now just pumping out story after story, even though it's getting more and more ridiculous

When Batman was starting out, he was less trained, and also most early Batman stories have Batman beat the Joker pretty handily. Now every thing is super epic. Batman is the world's greatest ninja and has 12 auto-driving Batmobiles and Batrobots, and the Joker is a cutter

It's been established for a long time that the Penguin and Two-Face are pretty good hand-to-hand combatants who are especially dangerous in a fight because they're both trained and skilled with firearms.

>Because then a man in clown makeup would be no threat to batman.


God thing he barely register any pain, has poisoned blood, it's inmune to mind attacks, has low tier regeneration, it's inmune to most toxins, and has hardened bones due all the fractures.