Why hasn't this worked for DC?

Why hasn't this worked for DC?

They're not as masochists, it seems

No one takes DC's 'big game changing polarizing reveals!' seriously because they'll just reboot it of people don't like it.

I think it has in the past, like with the Death Of Superman arc, and the Robin phone poll.
These days I think it's because DC is pretty shit at PR and has a bad relationship with press outlets who cover comics.

> Implying that it works for Marvel

That downward spiral that American comics keeps going down? This empty controversy is part of the reason why.

>Why hasn't this worked for DC?

The fanbase is older and less casual.

Marvel fans are like abused housewives

Who takes Marvel's big game changing reveals seriously?

That's bad.

Publishing relies heavily on fresh audiences coming in to replace those lost through ageing. Comic books, which were traditionally aimed at younger audiences, have enjoyed a period of relative stability as those audiences have grown up but not moved away from comics, but that can't last.

If what you say is true, these are the last days of DC Comics Comics.

>If what you say is true,

It has been true since the 80's.

It's the reason DC sells more trades and collectionable shit than Marvel

Everyone all the time.

DC has bad PR and most news sites don't like them.

>Implying Marvel doesn't always go back to the status quo

Because Marvel isn't just selling comics because rage. They are taking full advantage of changing formats, aggressively signing young writers and artists, benefiting from a coherent integrated approach to media, and their best artists and writers continue to write and draw books while Johns and Snyder have basically stopped writing monthlies.

>aggressively signing young writers and artists from tumblr

Because that's what Marvel does. DC just makes comics for 40 year old men. Turns out that makes for better comics that most people can enjoy.

Jonathan Hickman, Jeff Lemire, Andrea Sorrentino, Tom Taylor, Charles Soule, David Lopez. None of these...maybe Taylor and Lemire....are tumblr.

>not rage
Hail Hydra

Marvel is chasing the casual audience. They are sabotaging franchises and swapping characters for diversity. All they are doing is overusing gimmicks to sell comics but can't deliver actually compelling stories. At least not the major comics. You're better off with the off-the-radar comics they sell.

>Jonathan Hickman, Jeff Lemire (DC First), Andrea Sorrentino (DC First), Tom Taylor (DC First), Charles Soule (DC First), David Lopez (DC First). >None of these...maybe Taylor and Lemire....are tumblr.
No, but they sure aren't from Marvel. Marvel's talent development is shit. Any new talent they acquire or discover is straight from tumblr. Otherwise, it's straight from DC's talent pool after they've made better comics there.

None of them are new either

When has DC last tried to actually garner controversy?

The best bet would be BvS, which does nothing for the sale of DC comics. Other than that pretty much any controversy I can think is of the "Well this is shit" variety, not "Oh my God they are raping Bill Finger's corpse!" variety.

Keeping Snyder for JL.

i dont think they were trying to garner controversy. probably when they killed batman? or damien? or ted? last time they killed someone important

>DC Comics Comics
>Detective Comics Comics Comics

DC has fallen hard the last decade. Blame the lack of animated series and movies. Marvel is seen as cooler among casuals.

Again, that falls into the "This is just shit" category. It's been a long time since DC wnet out of their way to insult the legacy of a character in a way that Marvel did.

And yes, before anyone fires off, I know they didn't actually do that with Cap. But it doesn't matter what I think.

DC doesn't actively seek out controversy. It just tends to fall on their lap, such as recent sexual harrassment allegations and triggered transgenders raging online about a supervillain crossdresser.

Because DC fans don't fall for it. In fact, a lot of DC fans use to be Marvel fans who got tired of sitting through all that shit.

i can think of way more trans characters at dc than marvel, villain/hero alike. fuck people who just assume things

It does. It's the whole reason they raped Sue Dibny in Identity Crisis. Sup Forums is just full of DC fanboys that blind themselves to the fact that DC does EXACTLY the same shit they get angry Marvel does, right down to the naked diversity pandering, summer crossover events, and constant relaunches at number 1.

>When has DC last tried to actually garner controversy?

when they tried to push black wally i think.

I don't think that was done for controversy.

Hickman, Fraction, and many others were not DC first. And even if they were, none of the writers and artists mentioned work at DC anymore.

- DC already killed their credibility way back when with Death of Superman and now even casuals know that these sweeping changes are just bait.
- "Journalism" focused on the industry is biased against DC because Dan Didio got mad at a Batgirl Cosplayer that annoyed him for an entire weekend one time.

The no marriage dictate. firing, hiring, and then rehiring Gail Simone to her Batgirl. Making Alan Scott gay after talking about how they were making a major character gay. They just aren't good at it.

They are compared to Len Wein, Paul Levitz, and the crowd DC currently has writing and drawing. This generation of talent has been heavily poached and recruited by Marvel.

Because DC are cowards that always go back when faced with anger.

They surrendeder when a cosplayer humiliated them, they went back and killed nu-52 Superman just to please th fans. If it was Marvel they would have kept going and do even worse

I didn't say Hickman was DC first, and I didn't mention Fraction. Regardless of the fact they don't work at DC anymore, the fact still stands that you're wrong when it comes to "young writers and artists" because their most notable creatives are older retreads and their truly young creatives are largely untrained and straight from tumblr.

Marvel fans. They love the taste of shit.

>has a bad relationship with press outlets who cover comics
This, pretty much.

Though it's not a guarantee of success. See Civil War II.

>They are compared to Len Wein, Paul Levitz, and the crowd DC currently has writing and drawing.
King, Seely, Orlando, etc. are pretty much the next wave of higher profile writers and all have exclusive contracts with DC right now. Same with the artists. Marvel currently has DC's last wave of creatives (your previously listed Soule, Lemire, etc.) from the New 52 cycle.

>"reboot" and trying to keep the characters fresh by not having them rush into relationships yet
>simone was shit on batgirl and had to go
>alternate universe

Nothing different from what comics do all the time. Not really controversy but attempts at doing something different.

Marvel just lost a chunk of their talent. Most of it to DC.

As for art, nothing has changed. Marvel goes for different styles that vary wildly and DC prefers house style. Both have their pros and cons.

yeah man, DC NEVER outrages fans to sell comics.

Fucking Christ the people on this board are a joke.

>Marvel just lost a chunk of their talent. Most of it to DC.
Who did DC pick up? I can think of Abnett, who was already splitting jobs between Marvel and DC. And Dogfucker, who somehow got that strange DC mojo and finally wrote something entertaining in Green Lanterns. Most everyone else involved in Rebirth was already in-house.

This. Marvel fans are so brainwashed, that have usually very low standards, when it comes to comic books's quality. They can easily fall for any of Marvel's infant gimmicks.

Not like us intelligent DC fans. I can't wait to pick up my new copies of all the Rebirth™ issues at the store this Wednesday! Nothing is going to be the same after this!

>Marvel just lost a chunk of their talent. Most of it to DC.
Huh?
Marvel lost most of their talent to Image, not DC.
Abnett and Humphries are the only ones who went to DC.

Hickman and Rucka (not sure what he did after his Punisher run). But Marvel also lost Remender. Brubaker's been gone for a while. It's only a matter of time until King has no more work for Marvel as well.

DC fans are smarter than Marvel fans

I don't know but I'm glad that it doesn't. This is the attitude that drove me away from Marvel. Their constant crossovers and mediocre output played a part too but stuff like Nazicap was especially disappointing to me.

Hickman's not writing at DC. The teasing and rumors of his involvement were largely a joke. He, along with Remender and Brubaker are largely indy now. Rucka hadn't written anything for Marvel for about two years. King's output has largely always been DC/Vertigo and his lone Marvel title is pretty much an outlier. Like I said, the only person who really moved from Marvel to DC is Dogfucker.

>Marvel just lost a chunk of their talent. Most of it to DC.
No?

Most of their writers went to Image. because they already had Image books that were supported by readers.
Hickman, Remender, Fraction, KSD, Brubaker, etc.
Abnett and Humphries are the only writers who started at marvel and went to DC, and King was at DC the entire time.

You jest. But so far all the Marvel fans I seen are the stereotypical comic book reader that isn't very smart but loves the action scenes and talks shit of other in their LCS.

Post something more recent. Do it.

>everyone is so stupid

>everyone but me

This encapsulates everything I don't like in hardcore DC fans.

This. Half my pull list is DC, but the fanbase is fucking cancer.

>These DC fans are so mean.
>Marvel fans would never be so mean.
>They're full of rainbows, are all inclusive and respectful of my life choices.

I've found most hardcore DC fans to actually be pretty chill with everything indie. They just really dislike Marvel.

That's not really a rebuttal.

Then let me correct myself. Marvel just lost a lot of talent.

The thing it's mocking is also not a really logical and realistic outlook.

I like a lot of characters from Marvel, I'm just kind of frustrated with their business model and editorial direction these days.

DC has been aggressively signing young writers and artists recently. And what do you mean by a "coherent integrated" approach to media? The fact that their TV shows and movies take place in the same universe?

That you are correct on.

Dc went through the same thing back in 2012-2014 but you can tell they're trying to build up their writers again since Snyder and maybe Hitch are the only star writers left.
marvel needs to do the same thing instead of letting Bendis, Lemire, Ewing, and a couple other guys write everything.

>i watched the movies
>i'm now an expert on the characters
>no, i didn't buy the comics but i saw some pages reblogged on tumblr
>marvel does everything right, unlike dc
>#marvelwinning

I can stand casuals in anything else but holy shit are Marvel casuals the worst.

Seen this posted quite often, and I honestly think Tom is wrong. Marvels pulled so much shit as of late that I just don't care any more. I'm not angry, I don't get mad about the flavor of the month change ups, I just don't care. The amount of comics I read has dwindled significantly over the last three years, to the point where something featuring a character I like has almost no pull compared to the word of mouth surrounding the book.
It's just not worth getting worked up over all the bullshit twists. Like take HydraCap, I honestly I couldn't care less about how it effects the characters history. If the run ends up being notable I might get into it, sure. But otherwise its hard to get invested in something that feels like the writers are just stirring the pot with an asspull they'll eventually retcon away.