Trans-Pacific Partnership

what are Sup Forums's grievances with TPP, specifically?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=EriEOWHPqcU
breitbart.com/big-government/2015/11/06/tpp-overrides-immigration-protections-u-s-professionals-skilled-workers-says-critic/
breitbart.com/big-government/2015/11/06/tpp-trade-deal-hits-u-s-immigration-law-massive-way/
huffingtonpost.com/stan-sorscher/tpp-reduces-human-traffic_b_7488536.html
rt.com/usa/310914-tpp-malaysia-human-trafficking-report/
wipo.int/edocs/pubdocs/en/geographical/952/wipo_pub_952.pdf
youtube.com/watch?v=YByoVWmAEGs
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

Bump

Removal of sovereignty mainly.

in what way? copyright law? asian "maquiladoras" or worse? how is australia affected by TPP?

>Giving China an economic advantage
>Allowing them to bully our allies in the Asian regions unchallenged

It's like you want to get buttfucked.

I don't know. Protectionism only causes poverty. The Irish potato famine was caused by British protectionism. I don't want to work in a sweatshop like a lil Chinaman making iPhones. So I don't know why anyone else would.

Kek.
Saved.

fkn asians mate.

Explain cunt.

>Mfw no tpp now I've escaped the EU

on an intuitive level, i mistrust TPP and globalism.

i want to know exactly how china benefits and why we (the U.S.) want this agreement to begin

Why does Trump even want to bring back manufacturing? Why would we want to be like China? If you bring back manufacturing jobs the only people who will be willing to work those jobs are Mexicans and they will already be deported.

Hey check it out, im relevent for once

It exports the worst parts of USA IP law to the rest of the Pacific Rim. However even more insidiously, because trade pacts are take precedence over federal law, it makes it much harder for the USA to ever reform its broken IP system. This has a negative effect on the rest of the world too.

It's a trick to further one world government

Wanna know how I ended up in the EU?

It was a simple trade agreement...which grew into a monster.


You sign one thing and they twist it to their whim

Copyright laws against generic medicine

how did britain resist the euro? as an american, i remember reading "millions" and thinking that the UK was ending the pound.

congragufuckinglations

so, i understand that it's basically DMCA 2.0, but how is that bad for silicon valley (for example)?

>the only people who will be willing to work those jobs are Mexicans

no

Numerous ways, unconventional gas is a prime example. Most Australian's are against fracking at least until there's been more research, if we decide to ban unconventional gas mining and damage the investment prospects and profits of multinationals under the TPP they can sue the Australian people for billions of dollars. Copyright law is also a concern, as is the death of our manufacturing and blue collar jobs in general. The whole thing stinks.

Not yet you haven't. Your government is stalling hardcore to enact article 50. Once they do, they have 2 years to let the people forget about it before they can no longer back out. Don't get cocky britbro

I was young and unaware at the time.

But it was by the skin of our teeth we avoided that due to large public backlash against the idea.

If we accepted the Euro back then. No brexit. Ever.

>t. international corporate shill

Easier outsourcing
More competition
More people on welfare
Higher taxes
We have to pay the world price for things that used to be cheap (like heating oil/diesel/propane)

keep in mind, the U.S. was booming in the 1950s because of manufacturing self-sufficiency. NAFTA caused all those maquiladoras, and now we are dependent on mexico and china for manufactured goods.

article 50 gets signed on January 1st 2017

PM Mays own words. Stalling my ass.

With all the subsidised medicine we deal out in Australia, we will be go broke when there's no poverty generic brand to feed the old people with.

so, TPP is to Australia as NAFTA was to America?

how does australia get its energy, and why isn't it solar yet?

Because solar is shit vs coal and diesel

Destruction of little local business to profit big companies.

Here, OP is BTFO as usual.

even if it paid $12 an hour?
What if I told you millions of americans WOULD do it - if the price was right.

Do you think the price of your iphone would go up? You're kidding yourself. One thing that would happen is the share price would go down. Are you a rich investor faggot who chooses profits over jobs and the well being of his countrymen?

Why does a company made in the name of a man who died 50 years ago deserve the sole rights to his intellectual property?

Yeah we don't really have our own version of NAFTA from what I'm aware so this would be similar, but worse. We get most of our energy through coal because we have lots and it's cheap. We're slowly moving to solar, small-scale local solar grids are surely the way of the future.

Because he sold it to them.

this changes things—i thought IP law was based on artists (authors, filmmakers, etc.) and software developers as individuals. TPP treats corporations as people too?

coal makes sense, but i thought you guys were culling the abos to make room for solar and wind

Honestly it's probably a good thing it's getting delayed, since you can get some groundwork for trade agreements with Canada, Australia etc so you have something to bring to the table in the EU negotiations, but I don't see you getting a trade deal with the EU.

Our government is probably gonna veto it, same way they vetoed the EU-Canada trade deal because there was no visa-free travel.

Anyway free market is a sham, I don't get why media keep shilling it.

what is silicon valley's stake in the TPP? do they want more DMCA, or less?

Exports worst parts of U.S. IP Law to participating countries and then some (120 years before something published by an organization enters public domain).

While the GATT already does allow corporations to sue governments over unfair deals, the TPP goes further by allowing corporations to go before a corporate-backed tribunal to sue nations into changing laws that harm their profits (so to hell with your legislature).

It removes protections on "ever greening" meaning a pharmaceutical company can make a useless change to an existing product, claim it as a new formula or new product, and get another few decades of extended control over the product (so new drugs can potentially never become "generic").

The cheapest products from the poorest members will be sold with minimal interference in richer nations WITHOUT regard to the safety standards set in the consumers' nations.

It adds elements of SOPA and PIPA which were struck down in U.S. law, but sneaks them through because this is an international treaty (that just so happens to EXPLICITLY encourage and allow corporations to sue and alter the laws of member nations).

And that's without bringing up the shady multinational corporatist dealings that were closed to the public and had to be fought against just for U.S. legislators to even READ their proposals (and they still aren't allowed to bring aides or take notes when they do go to read them). Add in how congress foolishly allowed this treaty to be fast-tracked, meaining it will require a simple majority to be ratified, not just 60%, and they will have VERY little time to even discuss the provisions on the floor.

Designed by corporations for corporations. Will accelerate the (permanent) deconstruction of our remaining industries. ISDS. Now you tell us why it is a good thing.

We were never TPP. We're TTIP. And the tories still want. Fortunately the full leak of TTIP has slowed them down.

i don't think it's a good thing, and certainly ISDS under NAFTA was horrible too. not a shill, just a drunk and concerned citizen.

wait, *your* industries? what the fuck does britain or the EU have to do with TPP?

TPP treats companies better than people. IPs owned by people expire when the person dies and can no longer use the IP. IPs owned by buisiness not only have indefinite expiration dates, but will continue to be adopted by corporations that eat the corporations that eat the company that owns the IP. For example, see Mickey Mouse, designed by Walter and Roy Disney of the Disney Brothers Cartoon Studio, but owned by The Walt Disney Company, which formed after both of their deaths.

An older video highlighting the main concerns with it

youtube.com/watch?v=EriEOWHPqcU

All the criticisms are the same, only now we have the full TTIP dox.

what are the differences between EU and US speak in this doc? will the US enforce the more draconian language and the EU wont?

god, thanks. i'm currently down a wikileaks/google hole right now.

We have TTIP. You (the US) is the linchpin of this new global trade order. You're in both TPP and TTIP. Under this agreement UK industry could be outsourced to the US then offshored to Vietnam. The US would likely take a cut but this would gut what little industry we have left.

trasfers power from an elected goverment to Corporations.
Basically it's the epitome of corruption allowing corporations to sue the Nations involved in extrajudicial courts controlled by said corporations.

Furthermore the TPP is not just a trade agreement, it entails a whole chapter on immigration.
Basically it transforms immigration controls from the hands of the US government to a conglomerate of countries who have vested interests in flooding the US with immigrants.
breitbart.com/big-government/2015/11/06/tpp-overrides-immigration-protections-u-s-professionals-skilled-workers-says-critic/
breitbart.com/big-government/2015/11/06/tpp-trade-deal-hits-u-s-immigration-law-massive-way/

Basically open borders and loss of sovereignty.

The TPP also promotes human trafficking, slavery and child labor.
huffingtonpost.com/stan-sorscher/tpp-reduces-human-traffic_b_7488536.html
rt.com/usa/310914-tpp-malaysia-human-trafficking-report/

Honestly, the devil couldn't have conjured something more evil.

so, conceivably, someone in singapore could sue the UK under ISDS through TPP and then TTIP?

>lets your own government be sued in secret courts by corporations

How leftists defend this, I have no bloody idea.

It's the most pro "muh big corporations" legislation ever.

never thought i'd say this, but thanks israel—i can use this info. are you really our greatest ally?

I don't know. The whole thing is written in intentionally complex legalese lest it ever leak. Oh btw the EU tried to break their own rules and hide all TTIP discussion from the people of Europe by putting a 30 year confidentiality thing on it.

i thought it was strange, because obama wants TPP, the GOPe want TPP, but some dems refuse it. literally why are the democrats against this?

TPP would be even worse for us than NAFTA

what the fuck—i know that TPP is behind closed doors, but how did the "EU break their own rules" regarding TTIP?

I think they'd have to do so from the US but essentially yes.There have already been examples of how ISDS works in practice. An Australian tobacco company is suing an east Asian government who tried to bring in health warning for cigarettes.

The other thing with TTIP/TPP is they lock themselves in. Once you're in, you're in. Getting out near impossible and you are bound eternally by the laws laid out in TTIP.

I don't think lefties like TPP/TTIP any more than us. Sanders was well against it and did a good takedown of it.

>to make room for solar and wind

its not a question of room, we've got plenty of it, solar and wind are just shit

read the letter. All EU shit is meant to be done transparently, that is accessible on EU servers to all EU citizens. They don't even have confidential files in the usual sense. The letter is one of the chief negotiators suggesting a way round this by reclassing such discussions as 'limited'.

Here's some slides showing the positions of TPP members on each issue. Is a bit old so will have changed, but you can see from this who was pushing for what and who didn't want certain bits.

Manufacturing can be high tech. He's not talking about sweing shirts and producing shoes.

Modern manufacturing is mostly done via robots, the workers need to be skilled to operate the machines. Then there is maintenance, logistics. sales and management, all requiring skilled labor.

It's worse as it's not just focused on trade. It allows for an unelected body, which consists of the TPP member representatives (read: EU like) to decide H1B (or similar for other countries) quotas. Basically open borders.

Corpoations could overrule state policies, and could have courts over countries, to punish any country that is damaging their business by regulations. Countries would basically cease to exist, and you would be owned by corporations. Plus massive internet censorship, supressing content, turning internet to almost like tv, excessive copyright enforcement, and eventually you could not take a shit without copyright infringement, and would not own your own dna, or face, fingerprints, or even thoughts.

WHAT THE FUCK? where is the doc for this unelected body? is it like the NAFTA (2-person council based on the bilateral nations involved) or is it more like the EU parliament?

Everything. National and citizen sovereignty over corporate """rights""" and interests.

>It's worse as it's not just focused on trade. It allows for an unelected body, which consists of the TPP member representatives (read: EU like) to decide H1B (or similar for other countries) quotas. Basically open borders.

Probably the end game. Certainly between the US and Europe, tariffs currently amount to less than 2% when they're even applied. 14 chapters, thousands of pages to get rid of tariffs on US corn? I think not.

It tries to imply that we are on equal footing with other countries. Why make trade deals when you can annex and siphon their resources?

Pretty much globalism is the main cause of income inequality in the US currently. Corporations love it when they have to pay their workforce 50% less when they off-shore jobs. Taxing the rich and enhancing social services will only destroy the middle class.

i will read the letter, but i'm processing a lot of info and drunkenly trying to keep up with the thread.

why did BoJo frame the EU as inaccessible? was it that all docs were available but swamped in bureaucracy (you wouldn't know what to look for) or did they keep EU docs hidden from the people?

>Everyone wants elimination of subsidies for agriculture exports, except the US
>Everyone rejects the idea of certification without backing documents, except the US
>Everyone wants export credits, except the US
>Everyone rejects Di Minimis of $200US, except the US

this video feels very "britain-first" (which i understand) like "brexit: the movie"

is the enemy really U.S. corporations abusing ISDS, or is it global corps? if it were the U.S., how much would america stand to gain?

>certification without backing documents
>only US says reject

i meant accept

Spotting a trend?

Genreally EU shit is made publically available but yes, it is always written in hugely complex language and references specific clauses in EU treaties. Reading this shit requires a huge amount of time and effort, or training in the field. But at least usually shit is made available. The letter I posted was an attempt to go even further and essentially make confidential all docs related to the discussions secret for 30 years.

Its really weird. Like...for what reason would you WANT that unless you were doing shady shit.

ATTN ALL BRITS (and EU members):

if the U.S. were to export rBGH milk/meat, GMO foods, etc. to the EU under TTIP, would you guys be required to label your food imports as such?

Apparently only the US wants the elimination of paragraphs 3, 4 and 5 regarding Biodiversity.

...wonder what that refers to

>A trade deal where companies are able to sue governments for passing laws that could harm their benefits
Gee I wonder

I doubt Chomsky and Pilger would appear in anything Britain First. The US won't gain a huge amount. corporations based in the US will in the way I described, by assisting euro corporations offshoring to east asia. ISDS is a real threat. The real enemy is the same people lobbying for TPP/TTIP. They're not loyal to any nation. These deals are the biggest step in taking power from governments and handing it to corporations.

Just a gateway to spreading bland American coporatism to every corner of the globe. 6billion morons eating McDonalds and drinking Starbucks whilst texting on their iphone- from Lisbon to Gdansk to Taiwan. The American dream. Who benefits? Nobody, except the rich already in power.

I can barely begin to guess. That they dispute definitions pretty much assures they're trying to build in complex loopholes.

As to biodiversity, I'd suggest Monsanto. Some of Monsanto's GMO are pervasive and are sprayed by shit that kills other crops. So I'm thinking it's about that.

are libertarians and republicans for this?

if not, why not? they're always harping about how they want less government.

...

Once again things that everyone except the US rejects.

Although I'm not quite sure what "GI" stands for in this instance

Irrespective of the actual content may it be for pharmacutical or environment no major trade deal should be signed in such a secret way.
That being said, I do love seeing Sup Forums cry so that was fun.

Not sure. There was no covering letter with the pdf.

I googled it and it took me here

wipo.int/edocs/pubdocs/en/geographical/952/wipo_pub_952.pdf

wipo = World Intellectual Property Organization

As if encouraging trans shit degeneracy wasn't bad enough, now they want trading trannies around like some sort of collect em all freakshow? No fucking thank you

Anyone catch the 'Climate Change: shorten the article' one here?

TTP + TTIP + TISA = NWO

bumpa

bumpu

OP here: Sup Forums always has my back, so in turn, i will always have yours.

you discontent fuckers are the best hope we have at changing this world. it's been an honor serving with you.

No pepe.

youtube.com/watch?v=YByoVWmAEGs

You missed the entire shitstorm last year when Sup Forums first found out about it.

>15000 page document
>the house was not allowed to read it before passing it with the exception of a very select few.
>contains agreements that remove the sovereignty of the USA opening the floodgates for foreign companies to essentially sue the US taxpayer if they don't like one of our country's policies.
>these cases would be handled by a secret tribunal of judges selected from around the world.

The list goes on. There were actually more than a few threads that had some of the more concerning, no, absolutely batshit crazy deals in it leaked. Just look through the archives.

Oh and almost all of the content heavily favored pro-zionist goals rather than pro-US.