JSA Storytime: Punisher 2099

Good evening owls of Sup Forums,

what are the sex dungeon odds for tonight

Other urls found in this thread:

twitter.com/theseantcollins/status/747938750848704513
mercurialblonde.wordpress.com/2016/06/05/fans-are-the-worst-an-article/
mercurialblonde.wordpress.com/2013/10/04/respect-the-elements-thoughts-on-cosplay-fandom-and-art/
bleedingcool.com/2016/06/28/a-tale-of-two-exclusive-contracts-marvel-and-dc-comics/
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

so can we talk about how exactly we all fucking called the leaked-by-Marvel-today Cap twist?

Well we know what's happening with Steve Cap now and nobody here is surprised

Honestly, I was convinced it was mind control, I didn't call Cosmic Cube.

I know, right?

And now the WE ARE SO MAD people are mainly taking the "YOUR TWIST WAS SHITTY" tack, which has very little to do with the particular moral outrage that they were high on.

Hello Storyteller.

What happened? Was it indeed a bad pun the whole time?

i want so much backtracking and "We were wrong" but no one is gonna do it. it's almost like issue 1 was only a fraction of the story!

standing by Zemo also being fucked by the Cube.

the particular tone and style of the flashback pages reeked of Cosmic Cube alteration shenanigans, to me

Citizen Zemo on AIMvengers fucking when

anybody with two brain cells to rub together called it, to be fair

I am slightly disappointed that they set up that cliffhanger deliberately to cause a shitload of controversy and then immediately revealed it as a ruse in the preview of the next issue instead of at least dragging out for a bit

it's better than where we are with Aaron and Unworthy Thor, at least

I feel kind of shitty tonight still, so let's see how long we make it; may go out for a walk while it's still light

there's an interview about the Flintstones on Comicosity, and the book looks so good, honestly

Fred is 100% bara husbando material

JACK KIRBY WOULD BE SO MAD AT USING THE COSMIC CUBE LIKE THAT!

i'm so fucking mad at not enough crow eating

how long until they yell about spencer endangering kids or something with Kobik?

it makes the most sense. c'moooooooooon sunspot Keikaku.

i'm worried and accepted that he'll be in T-Bolts tho

Unworthy Thor stuff has been a cluster from like marketing and other shit, been bitching from the start about how the weakest stuff was the mystery junk. in the book he clearly is focused on Thor's current stuff.

i liked that the couple seemed of equal attractiveness and not sitcom couple

I hope it's good cause then Wacky Raceland would be the worst at just an "okay I guess".

Oh and apparently that's a 6 issue mini now, going off of the last solicits, so I'm guessing #1 sold so bad and they learned from DCYou to not keep shitting selling books alive.

>Citizen Zemo on AIMvengers fucking when

Never. Pic related.

Oh, something just popped up on my twitter feed of interest, starting to link here

twitter.com/theseantcollins/status/747938750848704513

right, Fred being less comical breaks the usual schlubby dude/sexy wife sitcom thing.

>they literally surf on sword-shaped hoverboards

I can't believe how much I'm looking forward to a Flintstones book

well done DC

i freaking love the 2099 universe.

NOT MUH FOOLKILLER @ the latest Marvel teaser btw. very disappoint

i remember the period i tried to follow the guy he's talking about....

trips confirm that Mark Russell is good

in the interview he's all "This election got even weirder than our satire"

I kind of want to see his academic Wonder Woman book, but lol academic book prices

i also saw stc tweet about the worst take he ever saw today, i had assumed GoT and rl politics something but now i'm not so sure

so ready for Prez Term 2

>Fred is 100% bara husbando material
This is beyond my depravity limit, the Flintstones are not for sexual.

Never thought I'd see the day

>SP: Well, again, I took the lead from Mark. He didn’t want Fred to be the overweight buffoon type that he could have gone toward. He wanted him to be a big guy. He was in the army, and yeah, he’s gone a little bit to seed. But he’s a construction worker. He’s going to be built. He’s going to be large.

>He’s sort of a slab of a guy who’s a good dad and a good husband. He’s just a good, solid bloke. He had to physically imposing. Fred’s a big guy, whose size doesn’t necessarily reflect his influence on the world he lives in. That’s a nice dichotomy.

>JACK KIRBY WOULD BE SO MAD AT USING THE COSMIC CUBE LIKE THAT!

I doubt it. Kirby only cared about the story he was telling at any given time, he didn't like doing covers or inking

This has been a crazy year for politics.

I am so completely here for the kind of melancholy about human civilization that seems to be the tone for the book.

>I kind of want to see his academic Wonder Woman book, but lol academic book prices
What does 'academic' mean in this context? Presumably it has nothing to do with a hypothetical Paradise Academy.

I dunno, Wilma and Betty are pretty hot.

Man why even use Foolkiller if you're going to ruin it. Fools need killing.

University press, scholarly treatment of some Marston material and the bondage theme.

Fearmaster's fashion is 100% a highlight of this book for me

>google out of curiosity.
>20$ kindle version

yeesh.

also man nothing bugs me like "well this thing from 1920s has racist things in it so it's worthless" like, my man, do you want to limit yourself to post-2000 works. like get in the dirt, let's try and analyze some Leni Riefenstahl.

like when Princeton got all mad about Woodrow Wilson's stuff at their school cause he was racist, i was terrified that some University of Virginia kids were gonna look up their school history.

straight cis white guy disclaimer

The notion that sanitization and censorship produce a healthier intellectual climate is a shaky one. And a lot of this virtue-signalling criticism, ugh. Just piss on it.

Didn't he only have enough power to execute a prisoner once a month?

After last night I figure hell go full FRANK, so not very good.

I'm just so tired of Marvel trying to up the anger every time, for everything. Instead of "There's an interesting story here, keep watching", they go "This is the real deal folks! Hydra Cap! Nothing will ever be the same! Peter Parker is dead forever!" Instead of being assholes and lying blatantly or whatever, just say you've got interesting things down the line.

>Looking more like a Jigsaw than a human being...

Bravo.

That's comic books, though

Not looking forward to those minority allegories though.

That never ends well.

I can understand renaming Calhoun College at Yale (which he had absolutely no connection to), but Woody Woo was deeply involved with Princeton.

Howdy guys, been awhile since I got to read along. How's the last week been treating you?

Horrocks had a piece about fandom I found very strong from her separation of art/artist POV (which she defended on twitter and took some shit for but did it cow her, no, because she knows what she thinks):

mercurialblonde.wordpress.com/2016/06/05/fans-are-the-worst-an-article/

> You stop seeing Nick Spencer as someone’s son, as someone’s friend, as a human being–but you also don’t respect him as an artist, and allow his art to breathe out and exist in all of its flaws without the need for repercussions. Because there is no difference between the pain he causes you as a man, and the pain his art causes you. You’ve lost discernment.

it rained! but I am super-twitchy and still congested

The stuff in there about not defining yourself by an investment in a flawed, human artist who you know primarily by the medium of their art, that's good

>University press, scholarly treatment of some Marston material and the bondage theme.
Ah. Honestly though, not sure why people seem to think the bondage stuff is something to be given critical analysis. Personally, I would think the idea that a high ranking member of a society of sword-wielding hippies feels unconditional love for literally every person in existence would be a little more worthy of study.

My favorite part is seeing Spencer's twitter at the time (when he's not making fun of everyone who isn't a Hillary supporter), is where he makes fun of everyone who didn't like the twist, made fun of the people who said the twist was bullshit, and with the reveal that the twist WAS just a cosmic cube, he then started making fun of THOSE people.

yeah, i generally get it and am down for renaming stuff that racist's names are on (Lotta fucking Nathan Bedford Forrest and confederate veteran shit around here) but like dude was a president and super important to the institution. this is a leave it and teach thing.

i wonder if they still/ever played up the Burr connections.

>separation of art/artist

yeah twitter and stuff is making this even more of a thing. because now we can both dehumanize them and yell in their face

It literally just started raining bullets in Fort Worth, what the hell

Found a bunch of Dr. Slump scans, ruined my sleeping schedule.

Horrocks has these glorious opinions on art that I'm sure many people feel are outdated but she'll fucking burn for them and it's great.

I'm feeling a little periody

how are you user

some people need to just not be on twitter

the best stuff has been poor Brubaker dealing with it.

Wasn't Marston like super into it? i figured it was a author's life in his work thing

That dude has a terminal case of smug, for anything and everything.

Which, to be fair, isn't uncommon in a lot of big 2 circles.

Bless his heart.

>we can both dehumanize them and yell in their face
that's a good way of putting it. Lemme also link to this discussion, because it's really, really on the button with the later Bitch Planet article:

mercurialblonde.wordpress.com/2013/10/04/respect-the-elements-thoughts-on-cosplay-fandom-and-art/

>And what’s interesting to me from a marketing standpoint is that even though she is coming from the side of a corporately owned character that she has little personal financial interest in, she recognizes an ability to short circuit the relationship between fan and corporation, through her role as writer-priest. People don’t send the Marvel tumblr their Captain Marvel cosplay pictures, they send them to Kelly Sue, and she posts them up for the larger community to interact with.

I dunno, the other people I follow (FabNic, Lieber, and Johns) don't seem like smug twats.

Now all we need are 2099 versions of the Russian and Barracuda.

It was going pretty good until today. Thanks to a leak, I now have a lovely hole in my bedroom ceiling, and a deep bedspring induced scratch in my wrist. So, y'know. Little miffed.

I have to watch the sub anime since viz Dr slump translation is not that great.

FOOOOR YOOOOUUUUU

I want a 2099 Cable who turns out to have really outdated tech, and also was just totally wrong about the future.

I've said it before, but I like reading her because she's so strong and clear about what she wants and how she reads, so I get both opinions and a methodology as well as a close reading. I don't have the same sublime-chasing inclinations, but I like reading someone who does.

JAKE CARES

These crits are easier to take of fandom when creator circles don't present and act like they themselves are infallible beings and everyone criticizing them are dipshits. Demanding everyone buy their books, but never to engage critically or negatively. There's outright bad fan response, absolutely, but the way people like Spencer, Brevoort, and plenty of others sweep everything into the same generalization of fans, mock them, and then get confused when they get upset, it's so weird to watch in action.

Kieron Gillen mentioned he should do a "social media for creators 101" kind of thing because a lot of these folks have no preparation for this stuff, and tend to default to being an asshole, then double down on being an asshole. Remender's meltdown and then petty audience shots in his comic itself comes to mind.

Audience has to understand that creators are people too, but also, creators need to... stop being fucking assholes and expecting people to just accept it? Or expecting nothing but blind praise.

I am not sure Gillen's "social media for creators 101" would address that specific flaw, to be fair.

Who else is good at that kinda thing? Gillen, Team Batgirl, ???

I really like Bitch Planet b4 it disappeared into Image scheduling

that's kind of funny considering how smug Gillen was with tumblr fandom during JiM and then how he and McKelvie both ran away hard from YA fandom.

The compelling line in Horrocks, for me, is the question of what you can do as a fan to not fall into these negative traps that will eat your soul.

They're alright, and I've noticed DC, for whatever reason, has less trouble keeping their writers reigned in online - or they're just less assholes in general. Marvel's corporate attitude and the "make 'em mad" initiative certainly seems to give a lax feeling around "don't be a dickhead online, maybe".

But boy, nobody at Marvel seems to have ever told Dan Slott he's not a fanboy posting on CBR anymore, he's a professional writer, and he needs to stop retweeting people who didn't even @ him into his account.

>Audience has to understand that creators are people too, but also, creators need to... stop being fucking assholes and expecting people to just accept it? Or expecting nothing but blind praise.

It goes both ways, I figure. Sure there's trolls, but that aside, most critical fans are still just people. The best way for me to immediately stop giving a shit about what a creator is saying is when they start referring to dissidents as "randos".

...

The amount of really nice manga scans lately has been great, I used to read on all those sites manga fans use but hi res comic scans spoiled me.

Sorry to hear that, user. Hope it passes soon.

I've been having an amazing week, thanks for asking. Miss these daily discussions, I don't have any comic reading friends, you see.

If you're in stormy areas stay safe, otherwise hope you guys have a peaceful night.

It's a fair question. I'd just like to see the same asked of creators by creators.

Interaction isn't a one way street, even though people like Bendis desperately wish it was.

Audience reactions are like Yelp reviews. You gotta filter out the obvious trolls, then listen to those who are actually criticizing you and consider their input.

>Wasn't Marston like super into it? i figured it was a author's life in his work thing
Yes, but it's been discussed to death and has almost nothing to do with the character herself.

>Barracuda

mah mutha-shockin' decred

I'd love to read that, yeah. "How to write things and not get obsessed with criticism and not to take it personally/how to disentangle your self-worth from it all"

So much criticism these days makes that smart pivot from thing to person that it's probably hard to not take! it! personally! as the old forms would say

...

HE'S MADE OF HATE

>The compelling line in Horrocks, for me, is the question of what you can do as a fan to not fall into these negative traps that will eat your soul.
To be honest - with that self-evasive personality trap stuff - I think it's quite difficult to draw a line between idolizing a character and idolizing a creator. Horrocks talks about seeing Nick Spencer as a human, but she also mentions churches pulling the same trick. That kind of self-destructive fan obsession (which I'm sure many, many, many people on Sup Forums partake in) can easily apply to a character over a creator, or any other real person. It's less real harm to a person, but probably no less self-damaging.

This guy is kind of Mean Machine DESU

this bit in the cosplay article

>No, what I dig is this second paragraph “I am not Captain Marvel, Captain Marvel is not me and I do not presume to speak for the Carol Corps. However, as the book’s current writer”–the front part of that speaks directly to the weird thing in comics where the writer of a comic is in some way seen by fans as wearing the skin of that character, and being a touchable medium for that interaction with favorite character. And this is explicit about that relationship linguistically. I am not God, I do not speak for God, but as his Priest you can tell me, and I’ll tell him–type of relationship.

That's fascinating and yet that is such a setup for an unhealthy relationship

So the Birds of Prey Rebirth preview dropped.

Anyone else wondering why in the flying hell Barbara can't be both Batgirl AND Oracle? If you think about it, neither persona necessarily excludes the other.

>But boy, nobody at Marvel seems to have ever told Dan Slott he's not a fanboy posting on CBR anymore

Agreed

Slott strikes me as someone who badly needs a life/hobbies outside of comics

When was that posted? Because I'd believe he's told a lot of his fans to go fuck themselves sense.

His identity is wrapped up in what he writes to an unhealthy degree, that's where the grepping himself/related terms on Twitter comes from

Can you ever avoid that outside of personal responsibility though? Because vicarious enjoyment is a thing you're never going to kill, and this is really just the (an) extreme end of that. How do you get people to stop over-investing themselves in things beyond making everyone perfectly contented with their life?

As an aside, there's also room I think for a discussion about how in comics fan behaviour/self-projection bleeds into the creator side of things. Like a comic fan can go from as a kid projecting themselves onto a character to as an adult projecting themselves onto the creatives working on that character without it getting any more adult and healthy. Because it's a fan-run industry, but also because it's adolescent and it indulges adolescence (inb4 that C.S. Lewis quote gets thrown at me).

2010

Sadly the post has been deleted by moderators. But Bleeding Cool believed it was worth preserving…

As if I needed further confirmation that the guy's a complete manchild.

This seem bullshit to you guys?
bleedingcool.com/2016/06/28/a-tale-of-two-exclusive-contracts-marvel-and-dc-comics/
I'm pretty sure anyone that has an exclusive contract is salaried.

>this guy will write Spider man until he dies or sales fall a lot and don't come back up

>"YOUR TWIST WAS SHITTY" tack

Can the people who were angry over that, knowing that it was either Red Onslaught false memories or Cosmic Cube shenanigans, still be irritated?

It's still a pretty lame twist.

>the particular tone and style of the flashback pages reeked of Cosmic Cube alteration shenanigans, to me

Can we also blame the bad art in Tbolts on the cube? Does Hydra like Liefeld?

It's a lot of hard feelings on both ends. Fans running into "hey did you consider that this way you handled your gay characters doesn't look great" and getting "fuck off, troll", and creators getting things that - whether they should or not, they just tend to - send them to full on defensive mode.

Talking about criticism of handling of minority characters is especially tricky, because you're walking on tacks to try to explain the problem without them jumping to "Are you saying I'm a bigot?" I've only see a couple keep their cool, like the Batgirl team after that one issue.

It's kind of a chicken and egg thing, every time. Did the fans go aggro first, or the creator? One of those times where who started it does matter, because it sets the tone of the conversation.

Part of the problem is that companies also expect fan rage on... really stupid shit. Little costume changes, or very tiny plot inconsistencies. I feel like they react to serious criticism the same way they do to that.

I think some cracks are starting to show with CWII, though, as Bendis and Brevoort are really getting it, both internally and externally from people on their writing and editing.

Dan, they're using that love of a single character to exploit you for cheap labor while you're whittling yourself down into an increasingly tired online ball of rage.

Like god, that dude needs some hobbies and a vacation, with some anger management on the side.

Because they want to push Babsgirl.

It's too late to go back, might as well make it into a legacy role and let someone do it full time.

I could believe both. There's no reason to think that the contracts in the comics industry are a particularly good deal. Evidence is generally to the contrary. Do I believe them from bleedingcool? Eh. Also, the contracts are unlikely to be uniform across the board.

I have always heard that DC (and probably Marvel too) pay for unused art ?

OP IS A FAGGOT!!!!!!!!
HAIL HITLER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A horse legged cyborg with a gorilla arm and a toyetic chest energy gauge I think probably outclasses 616 Jigsaw's deal. Just an across the board upgrade really.

I think the only way to avoid it is to do the kind of self-examination wherein you say "What am I getting out of this, but what am I putting in in order to get out what I am". A second-order look at your own fandom, yo.

Writers/artists have to ask the same question.

missed you, baby

Don't you mean Hail Hydra?

It's heil, dummy.

...

yes, it's a yawn-worthy twist--I'm more interested in the moral outrage components of the protest. "You're an anti-semite for writing this" is a different valence than "you're an unimaginative hack"