List one character arc that any modern major cape character has had that changed that character in any lasting way

list one character arc that any modern major cape character has had that changed that character in any lasting way

protip: you can't

Cyclops- Schism

Depends on what you mean, adding flight to Superman is pretty big

Cosmic Marvel from 2004 to 2011.

Deadpool- Drowning Man

When Carol became Captain Marvel

The Winter Soldier arc, took Bucky from being a dead sidekick for 70 years to being a moody living antihero.

You forgot the whole Phoenixclops thing, "murderer" is one hell of a change in Scotty's status.

And I'm pretty sure they'll keep the changes coming in the X-stories.

civil war turned tony stark in the biggest asshole in the marvel universe, one more day turned peter parker into a manchild

Bucky coming to life
Wally everything
One More Day
Batman and Son


what all am i missing

protip: read between the lines close enough and you'll see it

peter david's 2006+ era x-factor fucked with most its chars with -so far- permanent consequences

deadly genesis established prof x as a shady antihero

nu-52 did a whole bunch of changes and not all of it will be undone on rebirth

Lots of things in Invincible have long-lasting effects on the characters.

Then again, it's written by one guy, so it doesn't have the Marvel/DC problem where everything that happens is ruined by the conga-lines of new stories by new writers running in parallel.

The problem with MOST cape comics is that they can never change, they can never end, and nothing that happens in any of them has any weight or meaning because the all powerful status quo will return in time beyond a shadow of a doubt. It's why I steer clear of the big 2, and stick with the series that are written by one guy and have clear arcs, instead of an endless train of cash-grab "OH IT'S SO SHOCKING WHAT WE HAVE DISCOVERED" shit like the whole Captain America thing.

>no more sniktbub

As a 90sfag this cuts deep.

(A): Tony was always an asshole. It's just that now he gets called out on it.
(B): OMD shouldn't count (in a lot of ways) because that was writer's Tourette's syndrome at it's worst. And besides, the whole point of it was to retcon magic undo the story with actual long-term consequences.

Can I get some rec reading for x-men? seems they're all over the place in content.

I say, I do so feel quite affectionate towards James, say you do as well. Oh, do say so!

Giant Size X-Men #1
Uncanny X-Men #94 and onward
there are like crossovers and shit but you have like 100 issues of comics before you need to start worrying about them

You gotta be kidding me. No one has mentioned Dick yet? One of the only characters to transcend sidekick status.

MorrisonBat changed Talia from a cocksleeve into a real-person villain

Byrne Man of Steel turned Lex Luthor from a mad scientist to an evil businessman

Most DC sidekicks stop being sidekicks, actually

One More Day because they turn beloved hero into immature hero

My bare-bones collection essentials are:
Morrison's New X-Men run
Whedon's Astonishing X-Men run
Messiah Wars: Second Coming
AvX
All-New X-Men: Yesterday's X-Men

There's other stuff that you need to gloss over a summary about but are just not worth reading.
(in my humble opinion)

>Second Coming
>AvX
>ANXM
Do not listen to this user, for he is shit

Who the fuck is James? I was talking about Logan.

Deadpool, he started Duggan's run with not much going on. now he has a revitalized supporting cast, a wife, a daughter, a new friendship with Captain America, and became an Avenger. Also added on a huge amount of backstory with flashback issues and now is doing the same thing with 2099 issues. Duggan also gave Wade his first great villain.

he's one of the least stagnant Big 2 characters running right now.

DnA turned Star-Lord into a funnyman and that's basically defined him since

oh and he started his own team

>lasting change
>lasting
Only counts if it lasts past the current writer

Too gradual to count, the Nightwing persona was basically a TeenTitans costume change from 'Titans ex-sidekick Robin to 'Titans ex-robin and then it was just same situation-different city/costume/dayjob/team.
He never stopped being the same guy he was as The Boy Wonder.
Even if you can say that he's actually changed, it hasn't been in one important story.

well Duggan's been on him for 4 years, it's highly doubtful the next writer won't use ANYTHING he's created.

>because that was writer's Tourette's syndrome at it's worst.
Editorial, not writers. JMS left the book over it because Quesadilla forced him to retcon basically his entire run.

Stranger things have happened

Alternatively, we could add Jason Todd becoming the Red Hood.

Everything from 52 onward

Logan? Why he's in his cups, no doubt! Such a brute on some days, if you don't mind my saying.

Why does this fucking count anyway, wasn't his whole fucking bullshit for a while that he didn't want to end up being bruce and wanted to be his own hero or whatever. Then he just ends up doing it anyway.

You're kidding, right?

I think it's pretty interesting that of all the major character changes in the last few years, most of them have been Marvel. DC has better comics, but they still have been basically just using their characters are plot devices for stories for awhile. Like can we honestly say Batman has changed in any way for the past few years? Even after Damian's death (and rebirth) he still seems to be the same guy.

But he did it his own way, that was the entire point of Batman & Robin

>if you don't mind me saying.
Not at all. *chortle*

I'm seriously serious. Totes.

Very rarely does we want to do and what we need to do align

>Like can we honestly say Batman has changed in any way for the past few years? Even after Damian's death (and rebirth) he still seems to be the same guy.
Morrison Bruce and Snyder Bruce are nothing alike though

Well he started neglecting Damian more after he came back, to the point where Damian has now grown out of idolizing Bruce and wanting to be Batman and is ready strike out in his own

Because Fraction, Clint will be written like this for at least the next ten years.

But that wasn't a character arc transforming Morrison Bruce into Snyder Bruce. That's just the two characters being different Batmans written by different writers.

Scott becoming Rightclops is an writer-wide mandate. Like no one can write him otherwise, even if he does contradict himself between different writers (ex. I didn't kill prof x/i'd do it again)

I applaud your use of "*chortle*", Sir. I have been outdone. I tip my tophat to you. Well done, indeed.

what the fuck is wrong with you

>But that wasn't a character arc transforming Morrison Bruce into Snyder Bruce. That's just the two characters being different Batmans written by different writers.
New 52 was the arc that changed them.

Life is going to be a revelation for you.

The story where he stops being Bruce's sidekick should count since everything else grew from that

Convergence - Superman.

>Too gradual to count

Like real world development?

Moores first Arc on Swamp Thing changed the character massively

Beast has become a complete asshole hypocrite who complains all the time and does nothing right

Kid Loki

Green Arrow: Longbow Hunters or any story by Mike Grell

*Ahem* ...

"I would do it all again" was in reference to the resurgence of the mutant species after Scott's choice to use the Phoenix Force. Repercussions and all.
"I didn't kill the Professor" seems like an obvious lie, even to me, but that doesn't contradict the fact that he would do it all again to obtain those desired effects in regards to mutantkind.
They aren't mutually exclusive.
And besides, maybe HE didn't do it ... There Was Another...

I noticed this too

Other than new 52 changing some characters like the entire YJ crew for the worst, DC's heroes have been very much the same for the past few years. Even then they're probably going to try and fix the YJ people eventually, and it's already starting with Tim

Johns did some work on Aquaman's characters that I guess could count, especially for Orm and Mera

Grayson could've been this for Dick but they reverted back in just two years

It's a word that use more love, really. Mostly because it almost rhymes with turtle. Almost.

Many different little things converging for effect.

DC's change comes slower but when it does it's usually for the better and feels much more organic. Marvel on the other hand just seems to change for he sake of change, which you can see if their Marvel Now(er) line up

Barry Allen-rebirth
>muh mom

Like what? Never read his run is it good?

The first three issues are really, really good.

Then Fraction tries to write a multi-issue arc.

In terms of character development id say Damian during the Morrison run. He was fully developed when he died so there was no point in bringing him back from a creative stand point.

Most of the stuff in this thread is a result of writers changing or misinterpreted stuff between teams, not actual development or decent change within continuity.

DC has always been too strong on maintaining the status quo of their big money characters.
It's a good thing for being casual or needing a jumping-on point but it sucks otherwise.

More like DC doesn't do much with them at all.

Marvel is more team based so it's easier to mess with a single character or two.

But if you try to fuck with Batman you could potentially fuck with an entire line of books.
The Brother Eye period and Dickbats period are the only big changes that have happened to him in an entire decade and lingered a bit, and the former messed with him in the JL and the latter messed with all the batbooks.

You really should. That run is fantastic. The filler issues with Annie Wu focusing on Kate aren't super, but still enjoyable, but the main book is amazing.

Basically they turn Clint from a badass super spy into a can't do anything right, no good with girls, kind of thick headed schlep of a man, but is still awesome with the bow.

Does it have to be modern? Ben, Johnny, and Sue all developed over silver and Bronze Age F4.

New 52 Superman being gone and post crisis Superman's deal in general.

JL, the Superbooks, and Trinity are all going to address this in some way, and it'll be a little while before new 52 Supes comes back, especially if Superman sells well. And he has a kid now so he's gonna deal with that.

What is the cut off for modern

But DickBat was a great step forward, you can totally see him strapping on the BatBelt again if Bruce ends up in traction or something.
It makes sense for a new status quo where there's this one Back-upBat out there now.
They won't have the guts to make it a thing though, DC just likes their world as is.

Green Lantern/Green Arrow for both Hal and Ollie

Added the moral crusader/ultra liberal/huge hypocrite aspects to Ollie that still define him to this day, and for Hal it changed the general characterization of him from staunch thoughtless do-gooder to somebody who has a lot of doubts and actually questions authority, among other traits that persist still

Remember when Sherlock Holmes had that event that affected all subsequent stories? Remember when James Bond finally met a woman he would stay with for every future movie? Remember when Little John was killed off and Robin Hood is still trying to get over it?

Speaking of Supes, what about Death of' ???
That was one of the biggest change-ups in his history. It's aftermath added two major villians to the gallery and one clone-son to his supporting cast.

>More like DC doesn't do much with them at all.

Not really true at all. The Green Lantern Mythos has grown and changed, Superman is a father now completely detached from his past life. Like I said, the change comes slowly

Yeah Son of Batman didn't change anything at all...

This is like asking if Elmer Fudd ever stopped hunting Bugs Bunny and became vegan. We're talking stories from another time, that aren't linear, and are designed to be stand-alone adaptations.

Comics are a linear storytelling format, and while there are plenty of one-off stories, in the world of DC and Marvel, there are existing universes with characters that change and adapt (or at least should) based on the events that happen to them.

Other than the inverted Batman/Robin thing, not really, yeah.

Yea, but ultimately Superman came back, basically the same, and thus really having little impact on the character for the long term.

As for the other characters, i.e. the fake Supermen and Doomsday, they definitely made their impact in the title, and while they're still around, it's arguable that they haven't done anything lasting to the world.

Yeah Damian doesn't exist anymore after all. So glad that was retconned

Current Superman is actually pretty different. The father route is really working for him

Maybe, but given the overall lesson of this thread in regards to DC, how long do you think that'll last?

Silent War - Black Bolt. It created a falling out between Medusa and BB. Which had BB no longer trusting Medusa with his plans. He began to decide things without her in that story and continued on in all the stories that followed, from his Illuminati work, the WoK T-bomb, The truth about the second T-bomb, faking his death, the deal with Kang, etc.

lots of things have changed but you want to ignore them it seems

Eh, then Bruce came back and he was Nightwing again, then New 52 Nightwing, then Grayson...

Superdad is unlikely to end desu. Superman has been with his son for everyday of the boys life. It isn't like with Zods boy where Superman was asking "How do I become a good father" Superman already is Superdad, it's a fact. If anything were to happen to Jon Superman wouldn't go back to being the blue boyscout

Which writer/book would you say was the turning point for Cable? He definitely is quite a different creature since Liefeld shit him out back in the day.

Daredevil: Born Again

Wolfsbain will never be the sweet innocent lass she once was ever again. They would have to do a true reboot of continuity and characters like DC to undo her torment and the long edgy phase they tried to force on her.

Shame Kurt isn't in that image what with the retarded 'actual demon spawn' retcon.

Marvel went out of their way to destroy the characters people cared most about. James Howlet is also unforgivable butchery. It's like JQ and friends don't understand what people liked about any of these characters.

You ... liked the mindless animal drunken killer take on the character?

No, he stayed Batman until New 52

Which character do you mean and what are you trying to say?

House of M/Decimation for Cyclops.
Messiah Complex for Cyclops.
Schism for Cyclops
AvX for Cyclops.

When Hawkeye stopped being a villain.

At least we have Old Man Logan, so that's something I guess. Also X-23 is not such a bad replacement, unlike Whor it makes an inkling of sense

I used to read his title-character book in the '90s and that took him in a way different direction from early X-Force right from the beginning.
That said, he's now different from that example too.

Jeeze, when was that? Like IronMan#69? Avengers#86?