What went wrong?

What went wrong?

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Not enough blind jokes.

I couldn't understand what Elektra was saying 30% of the time. Marble mouthed bastard.

Too much Stick/Elektra

Not enough Frank

Not enough Frank.

...

(I kind of wanted to leave it at that, but I have to vent; how the FUCK do you make ninjas and assassins fighting superheroes boring? How is that even fucking possible?)

Nothing. It was fine for what it is, expecting capeshit to be masterful works of art is just going to make you disappointed over and over. If i had to answer, less karen, make the hand appear more throughout in small amounts before making them the threat.

>(I kind of wanted to leave it at that, but I have to vent; how the FUCK do you make ninjas and assassins fighting superheroes boring? How is that even fucking possible?)
Because of too much Frank.

The first chunk of the season was a relatively well-grounded story about an armed vigilante shooting/implaing/blowing up gang members and then they tried to incorporate that character into a story about fucking zombie vampire ninjas.

They couldn't have picked two more tonally dissonant stories to shove into one season if they had tried.

SHUT YOUR WHOR MOUTH!

(One batch, two batch... penny and dime.)

>No ben urich
>Frankening basically ended not even half way through
>the hand plot wasn't compelling in the slightest
>final fight had arrow-tier choreography

Not enough Night Nurse.

Frank fags are cancer that tainted season 2 of DAREDEVIL

Way too much eastern mysticism bullshit. Cut the Hand plot out completely and it would have been a serviceable season. It should have been a season about Frank and the introduction of Bullseye, to contrast the two and show why one is heroic and the other is a monster.

Nothing. Sure, it was boring as shit at any point where Frank wasn't on screen or at least the focus, but it served to give us a Punisher show. That alone makes it totally worth it.

This. The first season was brilliant because it didn't rely on cheap plot devices and supernatural bullshit. Also, the second season just rehashed the main moral dilemma of the first season. So it was more of the same plus lazy gimmicks.

Frank was the best thing to come out of season 2 of Daredevil. If anything bogged down the season's quality it was Karen doing the "I'm a hard nosed investigative reporter who won't take no for an answer now" and all of the horse shit with The Hand.

Every time frank wasn't on screen every character should just be asking "where's frank?"

Oh totally, because we all wanted the Electra plot to be dragged out for another four or five episodes. Totally.

Shit man, Punisher was the best thing about this season in the same way Batman was a gemstone glistening in the turd that was BvS. It kinda shows when Jessica Jones generally rates higher than DD s2, and we are still getting a Punisher series.

I still don't understand why the Hand didn't just use guns. Like, I get being stealthy and all, but I mean during the final battle, the Hand compound was surrounded by police, had helicopters watching them, snipers on rooftops watching them, et cetera, and they still used a bow and arrow. If they had used guns, they may have been able to kill Daredevil and Elektra.

It was better than Jessica Jones. That's a victory in of itself.

>I still don't understand why the Hand didn't just use guns.
I like how when they first appeared to take out Elektra they had shitty middle eastern Uzi's and used them to shoot down the door only to immediately revert to melee weapons and job horrendously to, as someone else in the thread put it, Arrow-tier choreographed fights.

Last time I checked Karen was at least in half of Frank's filler that wasn't allowing show to properly flesh out Hand stuff.

Yes. Showrunner's are memesters "le Frank" posters and wanked off to their husbando without giving a second thought how to handle source material more properly. Hand and Elektra desperately needed more time which Frank hogged up. And don't even get me started how despite all this time Frank had they gave us fucking laziest fuck all ending to his filler.

Nah, aside from the Frank origin, I far preferred Jessica Jones. It was tense the entire way through, Luke was well cast and made me look forwards to his show, Tenant was great, and it was different enough to Alias to enjoy as it's own thing.

Daredevil committed the worst sin possible for a TV series. It wasn't bad, if anything the production values were higher than before. It was fucking boring.

Ah, butthurt Daredevil fan. I see. My condolences good sir.

Sup Forums is other way.

If you haven't at least read Frank Miller's run on Daredevil before watching the show, then what the hell are you doing here?

Why is Karen such a mary sue?

>she got shot at and still sees the good in people hurr durr

Karen has her flaws (like killing the most entertaining side character in all of S1) but you're grasping. Stop grasping.

Actually, her main reason was to find good in herself via Frank. They are both killers and she wanted to know if one who took that path can ever go back.

This. All in all I preferred her subplot to Elektra.

>Karen "I'm a lawyer, a journalist, a strong woman who need no education for these jobs" Page better than Elektra

No seriously Elektra was alot better than I was expecting her to be. And I liked the ninjas.

>It was better than Jessica Jones.
That's not much of an achievement.
>It was tense the entire way through
It wasn't even slightly tense.

I was unimpressed with Miller's Daredevil run, user. Had the show taken from Ennis' run on the MAX imprint then maybe it would've been a story worth telling.

Good to know that the "Mary Sue = Character I don't like" is till going strong.

She killed my husbando. Fuck her.

Unpopular opinion:

It was just as shit in the first season, too. Also, the sound design is unbearably awful.

The Blacksmith. The entire ending to the Punisher arc was absolute trash.

Haven't seen the series yet. Is Foggy still a deplorable cuck?

this. Exactly this.

Or more specifically, they should've focused on 1 character only and have each character get their own seasons (frank would be one season, Elektra another).

Rather than shoving a rushed character in and shoe horning the character we really needed a bit more development with (or wanted more).

Well, it's your shit taste, let me just remind you that it's DAREDEVIL'S show. At least current showrunner's remembered that at some point.

Be glad that they featured most overrated and nonsensical scene in all comics (chaining Daredevil on rooftop).

All the supernatural stuff surrounding the Hand was handled poorly, there should have been more ambiguity as to whether any of it was real. Frank needed to be taking on the Yakuza for the two major plotlines to have a proper overlap.

Ultimately nothing was given enough room to breathe and develop and yet we somehow got loads of filler.

>yfw HoboFist becomes the GOAT Capeshit show

Jesus Christ, you don't understand. Frank is the shoehorned character.

At the very core, they tried to write a story with two plotlines that had nothing to do with each other, and no idea how to end either of them.

>Frank
>shoehorned

Wesley talked shit and got hit. She called his bluff, it's not her fault he was unprepared to handle a violent situation like that by himself.

I still like S1, but on rewatch the flaws were definitely more noticeable.

It's weird that I came out liking Jessica Jones S1 the most. Not that it doesn't have its share of problems, but the fact that's is a slow character drama with no plot ended up working in its favor when I watched it again.

But I also like slow, depressing noir stories where nothing happens, so it was right in my wheelhouse.

The most shoehorned character was Black Cop by a country mile.

Matt gets dumped and Foggy gets sexy lawyer fuckbuddy.

You mean the hot blonde? Atta boy. Nice to hear he stops acting like a scorned jealous lover when it comes to Daredevil kicking people's teeth in.

my point is they throw away frank to introduce a character (elektra) that should've had her own season instead.

Foggy becoming based is the best part of S2.

Agreed.

Even more unpopular opinion, all of Netflix shows are pretty bad.

Agreed, on both comments.
Eh. First half was, second half not so much.

I didn't mind Elektra. I minded that Elektra's story was nonsense that went nowhere. Compared to the relatively grounded story of Frank, it felt out of place and hard to believe. It was simply too rushed, making Elektra's death and resurrection unearned and emotionally void.

Elektra and the whole Hand business should have been introduced, but the meat of it saved for a third season.

Matt is a fucking hypocrite and a terrible friend

I liked first season.
I watched the first episode of season 2 and still haven't got the motivation to watch the second one.
The direction is just not good. The action scenes, kung fu or shooting, are just bad. There was some problem in s01 but it wasn't so obvious that Matt was kicking the air.

What Civil War issue is this?

Not enough Frank and way too much Elektra and the Hand fluff along with the Karen/Matt drama just made some parts of the season a chore to get through.

Advertise the show with Frank vs. Daredevil in more than just combat

Deliver on that promise

For four episodes

Then give us a half assed ninja arc instead with a terrible Elektra death shoved in.

>It's weird that I came out liking Jessica Jones S1 the most. Not that it doesn't have its share of problems, but the fact that's is a slow character drama with no plot ended up working in its favor when I watched it again.
>But I also like slow, depressing noir stories where nothing happens, so it was right in my wheelhouse.

Agreed- I think JJ season 1 is probably the best Marvel series so far, though that's a pretty low bar. Hell, given some of what Netflix has put out, it might just be one of the better Netflix shows so far. (looking at you, Marco Polo...)

Things it has going for it:
-interesting, diverse characters who do different things than just helping Mary Sue MC (AoS & DD)
-occasionally filmed with nearly enough light to see things (DD)
-can hear what's happening, usually (DD)
-doesn't have a million filler episodes (AoS...)
-villains are actually more villainous than, you know, the heroes (Both)

...it's a really low bar.

It's much better on rewatch.
First time I think we were all disappointed that Frank takes a backseat after only four great episodes. But when you know what to expect, it's a lot easier to get invested.

This. They pretty much finished with Frank's story half way through the season and only brought him back as an afterthought later. All the best scenes in the season had Frank in them. The viewer was left watching half the season muttering "What's happening with Frank? When are we going to get back to Frank? Elektra is dull, go back to Frank. I'd rather be watching Frank do anything."

>Jessica Jones
>interesting, diverse characters
Pick one.

And the villains in Jessica Jones are complete garbage.

Am I the only one who wanted more court stuff?

Just anything other than the elektra, ninja shit.

>JJ season 1 is probably the best Marvel series so far
Really Nigga ? Jessica was a fucking idiot and was not interesting at all, if anything the villain was a good

>if anything the villain was a good
He was a complete joke about as interesting as watching paint dry.

Sure he was a fucking kid doing whatever the fuck he wanted, but he was more interesting than Jessica "No matter what i do i am always a fuck up" Jones, its like Jessica doesent grow as a character

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I liked Shark Lawyer. Diverse might have been a reach but they feel like they've got different shit going on in their lives, unlike DD and AoS's characters who pretty much revolve around their protags

Uh yeah, and the only other options are DD and AoS, ships helmed by, respectively:
-a superhero who basically qualifies as a villain
-a squad led by the world's most boring man ever to live

Jessica at the very least was a mildly interesting fuck-up

Like I said, it's a low bar, I'm not saying it's good but that the landscape it entered into is so shit that it rises to the top by basically doing nothing

Point taken.
But honestly, for all his power he didn't feel dangerous enough. When I watched I Spit On Your Graves or the remake and its shitty sequels, there was always a feeling that if a protagonist screws up with killing her rapists, she might go back to hell she was put through. It was pretty damn scary and suspenseful.

I never got that from Jessica Jones. The show was trying to make you feel that way about Kilgrave, but it never succeeded. At least not for me. The show was never really tense, not even when he appeared.

>-a superhero who basically qualifies as a villain
What the fuck are you talking about ?

Elektra and the ninjas weren't interesting. Or at least they weren't worth the season and a half of buildup.

Also they were completely overshadowed by Frank.

>Daredevil
>Dresses up in a mask, seeks people out, and throws them off buildings after torturing them
>"I don't kill people though!!!"

>-a superhero who basically qualifies as a villain

I agree about enjoying JJ more than any other Marvel series, but I'm curious to why you consider Daredevil a villain protagonist. Really, with his love of the law and justice, he is actually more more heroic than half the Avengers.

Man, I always want more court stuff, in both seasons. I feel one of the big failings of the series so far is its inability to realize they different styles of Matt and Foggy in the courtroom, and the role a good court case can play in Daredevil's adventures.

The big problem with season 2 is that they wanted to tell two stories, both of which had tons of potential, but had no idea how to marry the two together. I liked that they broke the season down into "arcs" of a sort, with the first four episodes being about Frank and the next four being about Elektra, but the last four really, really needed to be about bringing those two previous arcs together into a cohesive whole. I don't think the writers ever had a good idea on how to do that.

They also handled the mysticism stuff poorly, which was disappointing because they handled it very well in season 1.

The first part with Frank was really good, but the Hand/Chaste plot ended up being really underwhelming, mainly because it felt rushed. I also don't like the cliffhanger with Elektra dead but about to be resurrected and Matt revealing his alter ego to Karen.

Should've kept the focus on Frank or the Hand. Not both.

agcwebpages.com/BLINDITEMS/2016/JUNE.html

>Even though there are hundreds of great stories about producers and showrunner’s I rarely write about them unless they also involve some celebrity because it’s hard to describe a showrunner to a point where you could even garner a guess. This story was so crazy though that I had to write about it. The show is an almost television show. Did really well so it was renewed for another season with some conditions. The studio wanted it to be less depressing. Honestly, that was probably a pretty good note. They also wanted production to move at a little faster pace. The showrunner said sure and shooting began. Except that it didn’t really begin. Our showrunner, instead of speeding things up was actually running things even more slowly. Entire days of filming were wasted because of the sets he was having built. Massive sets from scratch built in public places that were taking days to build instead of hours. The scripts were no less depressing and if anything, were even more of a downer than the previous season. This led to a confrontation between the studio and the showrunner.

After lots of yelling and screaming, things seemed to have been worked out. Nope. Our showrunner just kept doing what they had been doing. So, after another week of this, the studio started e-mailing the showrunner. No response. Calling. No response. texting. No response. That left other members of the production team to deliver all of the messages which put the team on edge. Then, the suits came to town again to talk personally to our showrunner but he barricaded himself in a room on the set which was inside a television studio. He stayed there for eight hours refusing to come out. Finally he emerged, but only because he had to use the restroom. He was escorted off the set and fired from the show. A replacement was brought in, but the showrunner had destroyed so many files about the show it took a long time before everything could be pieced back together as close to the original way as possible.
>Show: "Daredevil" (Netflix)
>Showrunner: Drew Goddard
>Replacement: Steven S. DeKnight

>After lots of yelling and screaming, things seemed to have been worked out. Nope. Our showrunner just kept doing what they had been doing. So, after another week of this, the studio started e-mailing the showrunner. No response. Calling. No response. texting. No response. That left other members of the production team to deliver all of the messages which put the team on edge. Then, the suits came to town again to talk personally to our showrunner but he barricaded himself in a room on the set which was inside a television studio. He stayed there for eight hours refusing to come out. Finally he emerged, but only because he had to use the restroom. He was escorted off the set and fired from the show. A replacement was brought in, but the showrunner had destroyed so many files about the show it took a long time before everything could be pieced back together as close to the original way as possible.
>Show: "Daredevil" (Netflix)
>Showrunner: Drew Goddard
>Replacement: Steven S. DeKnight

They seriously dropped the ball on the chained-to-a-chimney scene. Not only did they reverse the point of the scene from that of the comic it came from but it made Frank look like an idiot.

In the comic version, Frank is gloating about how his target is in sight, "peach of a shot" and all that until Matt finally accepts that the only way to stop Frank from killing is to kill him, except Frank loaded a dud into the pistol. This proves his point to Daredevil *without* making Daredevil a killer. Frank knew that he wasn't forcing Daredevil to kill, he was just forcing him to understand.

But in the show they take a cop-out of Matt shooting the chain (there's ALWAYS another way) which wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for the fact that this makes it look like Punisher was trying to commit suicide-by-superhero instead of trying to prove a point.

And then they just flip-flop on that point later on when Daredevil just accepts the fact that Frank is killing all these ninjas with a sniper rifle so he can calmly walk up to Nobu and kung-fu him. He accepts their wholesale murder to further his own mission, so it completely defeats the point of having Daredevil refuse to take the shot at Frank earlier. They should have left the scene as it was in the comics.

Given that at this point the Avengers have pretty much been their own villains in 2 out of a total 3 movies, I don't think this argument is as strong as you think it is.

Though I guess the only metric that Matt DOES come across as heroic on is "probably not an accidental war criminal." Because he tortures people on purpose rather than by accident.

Don't you know? Ninjas are not people.
It's okay to kill them. DD established that he hates them in S1.

Did Daredevil invent "ninjaism" a concept similar to racism, but against ninjas?

...

The leap from grounded and gritty (and fucking awesome) Frank Castle to outrageous undead ninjas was jarring and outright foolish. Frank was far and away the best part of the season.

>And then they just flip-flop on that point later on when Daredevil just accepts the fact that Frank is killing all these ninjas with a sniper rifle so he can calmly walk up to Nobu and kung-fu him. He accepts their wholesale murder to further his own mission, so it completely defeats the point of having Daredevil refuse to take the shot at Frank earlier. They should have left the scene as it was in the comics.

He saw a ninja die (in a way that couldn't easily be revived from) in S1 and then saw that same ninja alive in S2. By that point he accepted they could be killed since the Hand will just attempt to bring them back to life anyway.

I'll take "things that never happened" for $500, Alex.

JUST MAKE A FRANK SHOW ALREADY

Too many ninjas and not enough Fisk.

That's what subtitles are for.

Karen was just a crybaby.

nothing?

oh wait, telling Elektra not to kill someone which resulted in her almost being disemboweled with an envenomated/poisoned katana was something that went wrong

Fuck, dude, at least Karen gave a shit about sticking to Frank's plot after he got jailed. Matt was getting too sidetracked by Elektra and ninja bullshit to even focus on his day job almost leaving Frank's entire trial in the hands of Foggy and Karen.

I actually liked both storylines. Sure they didn't mesh well but it was ambitious. I liked that it had more plotlines than the first season.

The biggest thing for me was just how little they gave Daredevil to work with. They just gave him a silly "can't balance his life subplot". And it didn't work well. Neither did some of the other subplots. The whole Blacksmith shit.

So it just ended up very silly. And then there was some technical/continuity issues. It made me laugh when all the ninjas were running on the roof. Matt acting like they were gonna die. They then went outside and there was like 12 ninjas.

I liked it better than the first.

I hated Karen though. I'm not really sure why.

Forgot picture.

They already are. It's confirmed you fucker

In a universe that contains Wolverine and Frank Castle, you have a problem with how Matt handles things?

NO PUNISHER CHAINGUN

FUCK YOU NETFLIX REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Nothing, I was pretty satisfied with season 2 in general. Sure the Frank stuff is the best but I still enjoyed ninjas and Elektra. If I had to say something I didn't like, it would be all the loose threads left hanging at the end.