Dear Theists,
Please stop opposing evolution. Evolution is irrelevant to the argument for a creator. There is no reason why God could not have designed and set the process into motion. When you oppose evolution, you not only make us look like imbeciles for denying scientific facts, you push potential converts further away.
The west desperately needs to restore its Christian roots to oppose the modern degeneracy. We don't need to make that harder than it already is.
Thank you
THIS
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Or just abolish all religions and don't let pedo priests or imams tell you what's true.
Psychiatry tells you that transexuals are mentally deranged. Biology tells you races are different. History tells you mass immigration is bad.
No religion is needed to make good choices.
I'm a convert to the Catholic Church from atheism/secularism.
When I first converted, my first instinct was to try and reconcile Christianity and evolution. Then I realised that I had never been that intellectually convinced of evolution, had always found it somewhat ridiculous, and that the arguments/anecdotes used to support it sounded more like fables than anything. I also realised that it's impossible to reconcile the two. The scriptures are clear that God did not create death, and that death is a result of the Fall, and that God hates death: "by the envy of the devil death came into the world, and they follow him that are of his side." The idea that God would have to spend millions or even billions of years using that absurd and brutal trial-and-error process known as evolution to create man, when, being omnipotent, he could make man instantly (just as St. John the Baptist says, that God can create sons of Abraham out of rocks), is ridiculous.
If I believed in evolution, I wouldn't be a Christian, I would be a Hindu. The Hindus believe that death/evil is a part of God. The Hindus are the people that thought up evolution in the first place, and the modern idea of evolution was ripped off from the ancient Hindu texts by 18th century enlightenment naturalists. It is ridiculous to hope for eternal life from a God who would such a brutal process to create life.
Moron, there is this thing called Theistic Evolution
yes, another name for it is Hinduism
Lol you are fucking retarded
I agree with your concerns that without Christian values degeneracy has bred lately but it seems doubtful that the religion will be restored, the average citizen in the west is too scientifically educated to believe it, most the stories in the bible are now 'metaphors, not to be taken literally' and Jesus will be the next one. Religion in the west is dying and only a strong culture can fit the void it will leave.
>brutal process to create life, cant be god!
>surrounded by carnivores, is a carnivore
I believe that God breathes the spirit into man, "Adam" but that humanoids already existed for some time. "one day is with the Lord as a thousand years" 2 Peter 3:8. I believe that being formed of the dust/earth means of the creatures on the earth.
You make a good argument though. Your scripture isn't in the protestant cannon but Romans 5:12 and 1 Corinthians 15:21 have similar sentiments.
A possible explanation that fits my current understanding is that "spiritual death" entered the world because humans ceased to be as they were created in spirit (And began choosing good and evil), only a reconciliation through the Christ to accept the original spirit could bring one back into the presence of the Lord.
Thank you for your post. It gave me something to think about.
Also, there's no reason to trust the scientific establishment on this point. Evolution is not just a scientific theory, it is an entire cosmology, a "worldview". The philosophy of evolution was already accepted by the European elite intellectuals before Darwin published his little anecdotes about bird's beaks. The reason that evolution is so enforced is more for political/social reasons than anything. Capitalists loved evolution because it gave their exploitation of the underclass the justification that they were merely practicing the "survival of the fittest"; nationalists loved evolution because it allowed them to see their own nation pitted against all other nations in an endless conflict for survival; socialists/communists loved evolution because it reduced man to a soulless beast that could be programmed by the state; liberals loved evolution because it allowed to have lots of unnatural and promiscuous sex. Now it's so deeply in-grained that the scientists have to defend it, because if it fell the scientific establishment would lose its infallible status in the eyes of the public, and their would be a surge of interest for religion / non-naturalist worldviews in general.
>surrounded by carnivores, is a carnivore
Christians believe in the Fall, something that deeply changed/corrupted the natural world. St. Paul talks about it.
We aren't Hindus that believe that nature is always the same endless and pointless cycle of death and rebirth.
The death that the Fall introduced was not merely "spiritual death", or what I believe scripture calls, "the second death". It is the death we are most commonly acquainted with: the separation of the soul from the body, and the death of the body. This is why Christ died on the cross, suffering a bodily death, in order to have a bodily resurrection, clearly showing that the death he was undoing was not just the spiritual death of Adam, but also the bodily death.
This is incredible.
Can I save this?
I have never seen it put this way before, and honestly, I think other people need to see it
It has not been proven that process happened.
Could have happened is not the same as did happen
He simply made a man and then the man adapted to the changing environment.
There's an anecdote that when the communists took over China, the FIRST thing they taught in the schools was Darwinism, even before Marxism. Why? Because, as Marx himself stated, Darwinism provides an intellectual basis for Marxism. If man is just a beast without a soul, then he can be transformed into the Communist "new man" by biological / educational reprogramming, and if nature evolves, there is an implicit affirmation of Marx's that society too evolves.
Tyrants in general love evolution. It gives them unlimited authority, because the upshot of evolution is: might is right, power is authority. The Darwinian reduction of man to a beast had a lot to do with the inhumane slaughter of countless millions in the 20th century, because you can't slaughter that many without first dehumanising them in some way or other.
Darwinian evolution is also just absurd. Order cannot arise out of chaos, intelligence cannot arise out of unintelligence. That would undermine the very foundations of reason and cast doubt upon all our thoughts. Theistic evolution / Hinduism / Pantheism, the idea that the world is a great mind or controlled by a great mind that has moved it along these evolutionary lines, is far more intellectually credible, but not reconcilable with Christian teaching.
Sup Forums posts don't have copyrights lol
okay awesome, thanks my man!
How else do you explain human fossils being different to modern humans.
Kek confirms.
I'm a christian, and even I know we don't NEED religion to not be fucking stupid.
Because these arguments
Are the absolute best, top tier, grade A prime time baitposts i have ever seen in my LIFE
this is like some fine, rustic, homemade authentic Tuscan pasta right here, my mouth is salivating just thinking about reposting it
Christ dies a bodily death to represent the bodily sacrifice one must make to live in accordance with the spirit. That means abstaining from the things of the world of men. Exchanging the immediate desires of the body for the desires to fit some higher principles in the eternal.
Just my opinion but I think your interpretation is equally valid. It's down to each man to pursue his own understanding of and connection to God.
>asking Sup Forumscucks to not be retarded
>human fossils
Which ones?
Bones of Neanderthals, Homo Erectus... that stuff.
>It has not been proven that process happened
>What are fossil records
>What is Homology
>What are the Galapagos finches
You're an idiot
That means you are not a catholic but a protestant, but indeed macro evolution in the way of billion years with trial and error is bullshit and not scripture
there is some video with dawkins and a catholic priest let me try and find it
>I have to share a country with retards like this
How does it make you feel that you have the same understanding of life as a farmer from living in the early middle ages?
What evidence would you need fuckbag? It's there.
...
I think it is somewhat different though. It isn't about gods might, which might be impeached by the "theory" of evolution, that irks those theists. If we "evolved", instead of "being created", it implies that we are not holy creations. That we are not perfect.
In what way are those humans?
>Man was created in the image of God.
That directly opposing evolution.
>Neanderthals
Are stil humans
livescience.com
>Neanderthals’ appearance was similar to ours, though they were shorter and stockier with angled cheekbones, prominent brow ridges, and wide noses. Though sometimes thought of as dumb brutes, scientists have discovered that they used tools, buried their dead and controlled fire, among other intelligent behaviors.
If all life evolved then aren't plants our cousins?
WHEAT IS MURDER
We're holy, being made better through the will of God, coming truer to his image.
Plants are our cousins. Every living thing on Earth is your distant cousin.
>What are the Galapagos finches
I don't know a single Christian who disputes adaptation. Most just take issue with the transition of species to species.
Yes, I understand that every species is "transitional" in a sense; humans just labelled everything we have now and decided that what is inbetween is transitional. The whole distinction is man-made and irrelevant.
Still, this doesn't change the fact that nobody really disputes adaption within a single species.
Not my position but this is commonly believed:
Genesis 6:4
>There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
>HOMO Erectus
>HOMO Neanderthalensis
>In what way are those humans?
Bravo, your post is one the stupidest things I've ever seen
MRSA, cows, sheep, most plants you eat. New species created by humans. Speciation is a regular part of our lives and it works by the exact same mechanism. The only difference is the amount of time it takes. Read a book that isn't the bible dipshit.
youtube.com
They think evolution is true and build their faith around it, catholics however are the least of faith because of this
>alpha and omega
it does not imply imperfection.
if god is perfect than god cannot create imperfection.
goes with the whole "gods plan" idea.
...
Their physical characteristics, genetic links.
All homos are classified a Human.
Have you better arguments than putting fossils side by side and pretending that they were evolving from each other? This don't seem to be scientific.
this is what christian scientists believe. they actually have a lot of good ideas for a modern christian faith other than the whole refusing medical treatment bullshit like jehovas witness groups.
im not a religious guy but my grandmother was a christian scientist and we used to discuss it often. she was kinda wacked out but a lot of her denomination made christianity more pliable with science.
wheres roaches cmon show me
>That we are not perfect
The whole purpose of Christ was to compensate for our imperfection in the eyes of the Lord.
>created
If you carved a sculpture with a hammer and chisel, did the hammer and chisel "create" the sculpture, or did you create it? If you created a game in which processes culminated in the formation of creatures, did the game create them, or did you?
(Just so you don't think I'm crazy, I mean something like this. en.wikipedia.org
Sorry, I thought you were speaking colloquially. I should have had you specify.
To answer the initial question then, why wouldn't different organisms form different fossils?
Nice bait faggot. The catholic church doesn't deny evolution at all. I spent 18 years in catholic schools and universities and was taught evolution exclusively.
Intelligent design is something we mocked evangelicals for.
That being said, god doesn't exist and real Christianity only requires you to follow the teachings of Jesus and live a moral life, fairy tales not necessary. The church adopted and absorbed a lot of memes/tropes/holidays from other faiths to get the jesus trend going.
See the Jefferson bible for more details.
Different species cannot reproduce together and create fertile offspring.
You're right, it doesn't.
What does seem scientific is the DNA testing.
Go eat some bananas Matheus, you fucktard.
Non evolution believers BTFO
Nope, you have it mixed up.
Things are not the same species if they can't produce fertile offspring. Being able to do so doesn't make them the same species.
this
its only dumb fuck southern evangelicals that disavow the theory of evolution. on par with the muslims in science denial. its fucking embarrassing.
Alabamistan, Mississippistan etc need to be cleansed of all mouth breathing shit heads so intelligent christians can have a voice in modern politics.
They can if they're similar enough.
Why weren't their modern Humans back then? did God create them later? how do you explain genetic links to earlier Humans? Homo Sapiens didn't exactly remain unchanged either.
Based Leb-bro.
Are you implying a god would be unable to create different, but similar organisms?
then how do nogs and whites have nogites?
this guy: is just trolling you, ignore it
Go evolve first then talk to me.
In the story of Adam and Eve, God took one of Adam's ribs to make Eve.
Why is it, that both male and female skeletons have the same number of ribs?
Theists btfo.
>That being said, god doesn't exist and real Christianity only requires you to follow the teachings of Jesus and live a moral life, fairy tales not necessary.
This is actually all we need to save Europe and it's a far easier pill to swallow for most people. I don't know why Christians get so hung up on the supernatural, the real point is the message, not the magic. It doesn't matter if everything in the Bible happened, if there were no message. The message is what counts.
No, I'm saying that there is evidence that we involved from earlier species.
>atheism/secularism.
Literal never was a atheist, no atheist would use Atheist/secularist in conjunction like that.
Go away cathjew, your lies to convert us will not work.
evolved.
underrated post
OK
You're aware that evidence is not the same as proof, right?
Why is it that amputees don't have amputee children? Atheists BTFO
Yes, I know that the Church is extremely soft on evolution, and that many high up in the Church more or less promote it. The Church is fairly open on the question, allowing us to take either side. Personally, I deny it, but that doesn't mean I'm saying that it's Catholic dogma. However, I think that the Church has condemned the idea that there was not an historical Adam & Eve created by God, so human evolution may have been condemned by the Church already. IMO, the reason that the Church is so soft on evolution is (a) the secular establishment still rubs the Church's face in the "Galileo affair", so the Church is afraid of condemning a popular scientific dogma again, (b) a lot of our bishops simply like evolution because it fits with their evolutionary theology, philosophy, ecclesiology.
Just because evangelicals support Intelligent Design does not mean that it's false. Why give in to the propaganda? Why be so afraid of being grouped with "dumb evangelicals" that you are afraid to even question evolution? desu the evangelicals deserve more credit on this issue, they are trying to honestly state their case and they are being rudely dismissed.
The big bang theory was conceived by a Catholic. Being a theist doesn't automatically make you a creationist/bible literalist.
Exactly. The reasons jews are successful is because they take judaism as a ethnic and cultural base, not as a faith. Many of them are in fact atheists but they still hold allegiance to other jews.
The only way Europe can hold in the face of the Islamic expansion is so stick to christian morals/ culture integrity. Martel can't save you this time.
You know what annoys me the most about creationists?
They claim to have undeniable evidence able to completely debunk an entire field of biology. Yet what do they do with it? They keep it to their own silly websites and blogs.
Why don't you go ahead and present it to the scientific consensus itself? Why don't you publish scientific papers on your discoveries? No, instead you collect tax money to build a gigantic wooden boat.
Evidence requires interpretation. Whether or not such evidence constitutes proof is subjective.
In the vast majority of animals that's the case, however Ligers have limited fertility. In plants though different species can cross to form new ones.
If a plant with the genome AA and one with BB reproduced they would create plant AB which would normally be infertile since you can't form functioning gametes. In some cases cell division goes "wrong" leading to cells with the genome AABB thus you have created a new species that is fertile. And that is how basically ever single crop eaten by humans was made.
Do cockroaches hiss?
You are not saying, offering any alternatives. It is only me asking questions. how would you explain it?
This triggers evolutionists.
How slow mutation process produced a 25 parts engine?
Evolution as a theory is impossible to claim as false.
It does not claim that there is no god at all. If god is the beginning and end "alpha/omega" and is perfection or infallible then god would only be able to create perfection, life and death.
the dogma shit really turns people off these days because its horse pill to swallow.
read the jefferson bible for some insight as lebanon guy up there said. its a good read.
Explain what? The different fossils?
I have no problem with the idea of a god creating different, but similar organisms.
No the catholic church isn't soft on evolution at all. It openly accepts evolution as truth. You forget that the catholic church contains tons of universities and academics. Most Jesuits hold a doctorate or two.
As an organization, the Catholic church has contributed to science more than any other institution in the history of man (albeit with the occasional Galileo fuck up)
The dumb evangelical isn't a meme. It is simple tautology.
Texas too. I went to high school in Texas and my biology teacher taught the bare minimum that the curriculum required him to. His tone was sarcastic and passive aggressive as he taught about religion, he was a firm believer of creationism and secretely thought evolution was a load of shit.
ITT: people unable to admit their imaginary friend isn't real
Thank you based tree. This understanding needs to become more widespread.
>Agnostic
Technically speaking god is an extraterrestrial lifeform, wich have been proved is a possibility.
If evolution exists, then races with differing traits and abilities exist.
It doesn't trigger me at all.
If I don't understand something I don't throw my hands up and say OH WELL I GUESS IT CAN"T BE EXPLAINED.
On another note, how magical do you think airplanes are? Holy shit even the idea of motor vehicles must seem distressingly complicated.
Catholic here.
i agree
fuckin nailed it
Touché.
Adam and Eve story as well as the two creations stories are fiction, fabrications - and actually stolen from other cultures.
Moses also never existed - he's a fictive character as well as the exodus events.
Jesus existed - scholars agree that, but many events recorded in gospels never even occurred - mainly the resurrection.
Are you trolling me?
I didn't ask if you have a problem with it, I asked you to describe how do you imagine it.
Never mind, this is a complete waste of time.
People who believe in ACTUAL evolution cannot believe in any kind of god or creator. If you seriously think god shaped evolution, you are even more retarded than a young-earth creationist.
Here's why: the entire concept of evolution suggests that there is nothing fundumentally special or unique about humans, rather, we are just one type of organism. We may be "special" in our own measurements, but fundementally all organism orginate from the same beginnings some billions of years ago.
If you accept this about evolution, you will realize that either all organisms experience an afterlife, or none do. Humans can't have different existential rules than a bacteria cell. In our evolutional chain, who was the first "human" who went to heaven or hell? See how silly holding these two contradicting beliefs is? The cognitive dissonance must kill you, or maybe you are just ignorant to how evolution actually works.
The other question is "why". Evolution, and natural selection, is the most brutal, painful, and just overall dark and depressing understanding about reality that we face. It literally tells us that most organisms should not breed ("the law of the jungle"), and that only the strong should survive and reproduce.
I think you are just desperate to hold on to religion for "muh crusades" and "muh white culture".
Even the Galileo "fuck-up" wasn't as big as they present it. Of course they shouldn't have meddled with scientific research at all, but Galileo was put under comfy house arrest and provided ability to work as he was only detained for the way he was presenting his claims and on basis of implications he was making from the research, not for his findings alone.
I've heard that Jesus had similar experiences to Horus.
Most of us don't personify God as much as you think.To me, God is indistinguishable from the universe and the natural order because creation is his will in action.
If you're truly the sceptic you think you are, try digging deeper and finding out that you have no basis for your values or any meaning at all, read some existentialists. When you've wallowed in nihilism for long enough, consider looking into God again. See you in a few years, friend.
That's bullshit. It's a process. Just because you don't like or understand the process doesn't mean an omnipotent being didn't create the process.
I personally believe most of what evolution claims happened did.
I'm just not idiotic enough to assert that it is definitely true.
every fucking time
No he doesn't.