Question for Malays here

Do you consider people who speak Malay and that live in places like Indonesia and Brunei to be ethnic Malay? Like in pic related the group labeled as Melayu are supposed to be ethnic Malays in Indonesia.

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arr rook same

Rude!

It's true
People in the Malay archipelago have a weird sense of unity in diversity, they've always traded with one another and can get along but they're also different
Of course New Guinea is an entirely different thing

also
>that live in places like Indonesia and Brunei to be ethnic Malay
Brunei is a Malay country, but Indonesia has a whole fuck load of ethnicities (as your image shows), with Javanese and Sundanese being huge groups each with a 10-digit population. Madurese and Bugis/Makassarese are also large.

I think Malays might consider Minangkabaus as part of them but not the rest. I can't say for sure since I'm Chinese though.

Yes, I know about the unity national ideology in Indonesia but surely they still recognize ethnic groups among themselves?
>can get along
Has there never been conflict in that part of the world?

>surely they still recognize ethnic groups among themselves?
They do. They speak their own native languages and such, and I've seen Indonesians say that the Sundanese are the worst.
>Has there never been conflict in that part of the world?
It's not based on ethnicity at least. There is a Malay insurgency in southern Thailand but that is an entirely different matter.

I meant more in the historical sense cause the only thing I can recall is fighting or a rivalry between Ternate and Tidore in the Malukus. I don't know much about the region desu.
>Sundanese are the worst.
Why do they say that?

Yes and hell, many even consider others (Javanese, Minang, Bugis, Banjar) as Malays as long as they speak Malay and Muslims.

The problem is, the feeling is not mutual. Indonesians across all ethnic groups hate Malaysia with passion due to the brainwashing by their government and over sense of patriotism.

For example in Indonesia; Malaysia is being called thief because of the culture that we practice or the food that we eat, some of them originated in "Indonesia". Indonesians think in term of country while Malaysians think in term of ethnicity first so it doesn't matter for Malaysians if the food is originated in Indonesia (when Indonesia doesn't even exist yet as a country) because some of us have roots there.

If a Malay Malaysian for example say to a Malay Indonesian why don't you join Malaysia, the typical answer will be "I would rather die fighting for Indonesia than being a part of British slave (Malaysia)".

We're considered British slave by Indonesian because we got our Independence from the British through diplomacy while hundred thousands of Indonesians died in their war of independence against Dutch. Also they're still butthurt that when they invaded Malaysia in 1963 (Malaysian-Indonesian Confrontation) they we're beaten by the combination of Commonwealth troops (Malaysia, British, Australia and New Zealand).

As for Brunei, we're basically the same.

No clue.
>the only thing I can recall is fighting or a rivalry between Ternate and Tidore in the Malukus. I don't know much about the region desu.
The farther east you go, the less Austronesian and more removed from the Malay-Javanese-Sundanese-Balinese "core" people get. Ternate and Tidore are pretty far away, and their languages are Papuan in classification.

>Konfrontasi
Fucking bastards, I have to waste two years of my life in the military because of that shit.

I didn't know Ternate and Tidore spoke Papuan languages. At what point do people start to resemble (just physically) Melanesians more than Southeast Asians? I read on wiki once that many islands are basically inhabited by Melanesians but aren't classed within that region cause they're culturally more like the rest of Indonesia.

Maluku is where things get fuzzy.
When you get to Papua it's all uncivilised tribes and rich miners.

Yeah, the biggest threat to Singapore is actually Indonesia and not Malaysia as many thought. If we're aggressive we would have taken Brunei a long time ago.

Pretty interesting comment, thanks.
>many even consider others (Javanese, Minang, Bugis, Banjar) as Malays as long as they speak Malay and Muslims.
Huh, really?
>due to the brainwashing by their government and over sense of patriotism.
Yeah, it's called Pancasila, right? It's interesting that they've managed to suppress ethnic sentiment with it, I thought there was some ethnic tension in some places, specially cause of Javanese migrating everywhere else in the archipelago.
>If a Malay Malaysian for example say to a Malay Indonesian why don't you join Malaysia
Just hypothetically, would you like the idea of a joined Malaysia? With all the Malay inhabited areas under one country?
What about East and West Nusa Tenggara?

and not only that, the farther east you go the less muslim it gets

>What about East and West Nusa Tenggara?
There are Papuan populations in Timor. But most of Nusa Tenggara was influenced by Makassarese merchants in olden times.

>Just hypothetically, would you like the idea of a joined Malaysia? With all the Malay inhabited areas under one country?
Absolutely not, because my country would be a Chinese-majority enclave within a large archipelagic hegemon that would try to isolate and starve us.

I'm an Indonesian Malay and yes, Javanese, Sundanese etc are Malays despite they're neglecting the fact. Indonesian language is basically just a Malay dialect. Btw Malaysia is only 60% Malay

>Javanese, Sundanese etc are Malays despite they're neglecting the fact
They're separate ethnolinguistic groups, but they're very close to Malay.

Ethnic group is kinda bizarre in this region

>Huh, really?

We have many assimilated Javanese/Bugis/Minang here in Malaysia who already identify as Malays. In Malaysia if you speak Malay and you're a Muslim then according to the constitution you're Malay.

Our current Prime Minister himself is a Bugis while our Deputy Prime Minister is a Javanese. We have a state full of Minang people which is Negeri Sembilan.

Also I want to add that in Peninsular Malaysia, the south (Johor, Negeri Sembilan, Kuala Lumpur, Selangor) is where many of these Indonesian descents reside and inter-marry. The pure Malays are in the north (Kelantan, Terengganu, Kedah).

>Just hypothetically, would you like the idea of a joined Malaysia? With all the Malay inhabited areas under one country?

Not just me, most Malays in Malaysia support this.

Why?

Do Malays hate Chinese or why would they try to do that?
Seems ethnicity is very fluid there.
>We have a state full of Minang people which is Negeri Sembilan.
How did they end up there?
>Also I want to add that in Peninsular Malaysia, the south (Johor, Negeri Sembilan, Kuala Lumpur, Selangor) is where many of these Indonesian descents reside and inter-marry. The pure Malays are in the north (Kelantan, Terengganu, Kedah).
Yeah, I've read about this divide, like I think most Malaysian minorities like Chinese and Indians also live in the South, right? And I think they're more developed?
>Not just me, most Malays in Malaysia support this.
Huh, didn't know this idea actually had popular support in Malaysia. How would a country like this look like? Malay Peninsula, Sumatra (or coastal Sumatra), the whole island of Borneo and Riau Islands?

Yes, I know that there are many non-Malays in Malaysia, I think they were brought over by Britain?

Btw, since you're Malay, would you like the idea of a unified Malay state?

Indonesia wants our land. We've always been a strategically important port. But we're Chinese so they can't justify taking it as strongly.

>I think most Malaysian minorities like Chinese and Indians also live in the South, right
ABSOLUTELY wrong, the most Chinese part of Malaysia is Penang Island. Where my family is from.

Why are there so many Chinese in Penang? Kinda reminds me of like a second SIngapore.

Because they were the second Singapore.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straits_Settlements

Minang

1. The rise of Malacca attract them
2. Minang people are known as traders
3. They have a culture of merantau (leave your home and make a living overseas)
4. Near (just cross the Malacca Strait)

As for Bugis, they were mercenaries used by Sultans to fight war (they were known as fierce warriors)

>And I think they're more developed?

In the south there were many tin mines that attract the British and also Chinese. Infrastructure (road/rail road/offices) were concentrated here since the colonial times to extract these resources. There are no resources in the north.

Malaysia was the largest tin producer in the world.

they are chink breeds like vermin

Also I believe the Minangkabau lands were threatened at the time.

>Do Malays hate Chinese or why would they try to do that?
When "Malaysia" was a British colony it wasn't actually administered as one entity, it wasn't until 1946 when the "Malayan Union" was established from a group of colonies/protectorates and Singapore wasn't part of it, and I think the reasoning behind this is more complex but I think it boils down to the fact that Singapore has always been a Chinese majority country, actually around 75% of the population is Chinese, even today the ethnic share is pretty much the same as it was when it became independent even though nowadays Singapore population growth is mostly driven by immigration, anyways after the UN was formed and the world decided that "colonies were bad" and all of that there was this idea among Malay scholars and intellectuals to create a country for "Malays-Muslims", you know because they shared an ethnic identity, religion, language and history, at that point Singapore, the Dutch East Indies and the British colonies/protectorates in Borneo were all considered but because of reasons it wasn't possible (the Netherlands didn't want to give Indonesia independence, most of the population in Borneo is not Malay, etc.), anyhow in 1957 Malaysia became a thing, named back then "Federation of Malaya" after gaining independence from the United Kingdom, but there was this strong desire and feeling of creating a bigger Malay state and in 1963 Singapore, Sarawak and Sabah were united and the country was renamed "Malaysia" but Singapore was never satisfied with this merger because Singapore had different ideas of what should Malaysia should becomeand do and also because of some Malaysia's policies, especially the fact that anybody without a "bumiputera" status didn't have the same rights as "bumiputeras" (remember Singapore is three thirds Chinese and only 13% Malay) and in 1965 thanks to LEE Kuan Yew (PEACE BE UPON HIM) and other people Singapore became independent

>Has there never been conflict in that part of the world?
have you heard about konfrontasi? the Indonesians were so autistic/butthurt about Malaysia that they literally created a new Olympic Games (GANEFO) and literally withdraw from the United Nations (the only country to do that so far) for one year and a half

>Do Malays hate Chinese or why would they try to do that?
It's actually quite simple. Most of the Chinese descendants in present day Malaysia hailed from the mass immigration of miners. They're brought in by Bong under contracts. Once the Bong rules are finished, so the contracts are no longer effective. They must go back to their homeland in Southern China. Any other claimants are just a façade to make them stay longer to rip us off longer like jus soli etc. Not to mention we hate gommies. If they claimed they're from the immigration pre-1500s, then they're lying. This group of first immigration are declining because you have to read more on the Baba Nyonya. Not to mention they're internal traitors acting as one of the perpetrator in aiding coloniser to see the fall of empire back then. Our resentment are justified.

>Because you have to read more on the Baba Nyonya
Could you expand more on this?

Kek, learning that in my history class was kinda funny because Soekarno (the first president) was hailed as "brave enough to fight the big boss" while Soeharto (the second president) was hailed as "the one who made a peace between brothers" or something like that.

Easy, Malaysia wants to reinstate Srivijaya Empire, while Indonesia wants to reinstate Majapahit Empire.