Why do you guys hate this? I'm really digging it so far...

Why do you guys hate this? I'm really digging it so far, the best thing Bendis has written in years! And the art is fantastic.
Not a shill, just wondering why you guys seem to hate it

It's boring and predictable.

It's alright. It certainly isn't the art anyone dislikes, Marquez is fantastic. The story really isn't bad thus far, it just hasn't really done anything beyond a boring event comic meant to have consequences. Plus as usual the ending is largely spoiled. Also it's Bendis so a significant amount of people will hate it on principle. I like it though, mostly because of the art.

It's just a bunch of cheap deaths strung together for shock writing

its a rip off of minority report and some of the charcters are not even being them selfs take Captain America (Steve) for example.

and said

>Characters acting out of character
>ignoring the existance of precogs and actual time travellers
>treating seeing the future as something new for 616
>especially egregious as bendis himself stranded the 60s era X-men in the future
>bendis speak
>contrived conflict
>both sides going full retard for the sake of creating a fight
>NOTHING WILL EVER BE THE SAME

When you say somebody hates something or someone "on priciple", there actually has to be principles involved in why they hate them.
Sheeple following the meme crowd and racists that foam at the mouth at the sight of a black character don't count.

>Bendis' actual writing still sucks monkey dick
>a bunch of cheap deaths
>fucking flashback in #3
>anti hulk arrow
>Inhuman shilling
>it's bendis so tons of people are OOC
>Carol shilling
>forced hero vs hero shit
>apparently editorial not telling writers what the fuck is happening despite said writers having books with crucial CW2 characters in them

The event being rushed and there not being any build up seems to be causing most of the problems other than Bendis just being Bendis. Like some of the arguments could be more natural and not forced had they been a thing done before the event, not Ewing hastily writing in shit in the tie ins. All the people dying in 3 issues, the Clint/Bruce thing, etc.

And we haven't gotten to the actual side picking yet and fighting so that'll be a blast.

I give you that future vision isn't new to Marvel, but who specifically is acting out of character?

Yeah, I guess you're right.

>Not a shill
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

Reminder that this is supposed to drag out until November.

Shit forced story. Tony complaning about someone else acting upon their version of the future literally hurts me. Also some of the best from bends is still shit.

It's boring, lazy, derivative, and interrupts/screws over a number of Marvel's few good books.

Fuck off bendis. You have earned the hate.

The futurist Tony statk bit ching about how acting on the future you see is wrong because it hasn't happened yet. Considering that shit is how he brought about the first civil war.

And what about the business with Agatha Harkness's pre-cog?

How does that impact Tony, Vision, Sam, Wanda's thinking?

- the characters are behaving in character, you just don't (or won't) understand their motives.
- they are mentioned in the books, as is the minutiae of multiple timelines, parallel realities, and the constant precog foil of accuracy in probability. READ.
- AGAIN, it's mentioned in the fucking books you didn't read.
- and now you're trying to link an irrelevant storyline for no damned reason. Batman timetravelled once too, you forgot to mention that!
- words! How horrible! You didn't buy a picture book to read!
- ... if this crap is an actual complaint of yours then you're developmentally disabled.
- see previous answer.
- Pretty much, haven't you noticed yet? Marvel actually makes storylines that matter.

that's honestly the least of my complaints,
I just wish Bendis would stop fucking around and turn subtext into text by having Tony remind Carol 'last time we did this song and dance, people were dying on the street and we started throwing powerless people into space Guantanamo. The only reason I can even live with myself is because I'm just a backup mind who didn't live through it first hand. For the love of god don't make the same mistakes'

>Marvel actually makes storylines that matter.
This made it too obvious. You had my johnnies in a jumble for a minute there though.9

The editorial isn't doing a good job in keeping the timeline of events in check and presentable to the audience.
I mean, when they visit Hulk? When Rhodey funeral happens? How much time passes?

If you read just the main book of the event, you get the impression that everything is happening in a very small frame of time. Just read Civil War II #2 and it's like the heroes don't lose time to see the hulk, but this is not true. Rhodey funeral happens somewhere in the middle of all that.

It's just confusing the way it's presented.

Why are you reading cape comics expecting something unpredictable? Cape comics have this way of writing that makes any event, no matter how cool it sounds on paper, seem exactly as lame as every other thing that 'happened' (does something really happen if nothing changes afterward?).

Final Crisis

It's too black and white. Carol is way too unlikeable and stupid to make readers sympathize with her side.

It's a half-assed event made to mooch off a movie's success full of stupid deaths, stupid characterizations, and forced conflict. And worse, it's written by Bendis.

I disagree, from what little I read I don't really agree with Tony because all Carols been doing is taking down criminals. Her only misstep wasn't even really her fault, it was fucking Clint. And that's retarded too
>Last week Hulk asked me to kill him if he Hulked out and I was super on board.

Final Crisis what? Final Crisis was unpredictable, or final crisis sounded cool on paper before you read it and realize it that if two or three words were changed the dialogue would be identical to the last 5 events? I haven't read it so I'm honestly asking here.

>- the characters are behaving in character, you just don't (or won't) understand their motives.
The first thing you said and I can already tell this is baitarino.

It's a post responding to obvious bait.
You're either an idiot or a shitposter to not recognize that.

I just read the fcbd edition and I have a question.

I don't read much marvel but is she hulk far less powerful then hulk because from what little I know of him he would not be left barely breathing by that missile.

Also holy shit that was retarded does war machine apparently not know how to avoid crashing into thrown allies for that matter is he not expirenced enough he should have been able to stop himself from firing when he saw he was going to crash.

I suppose it's possible he already fired and it's just slow to take off.

>bait
get off Sup Forums bendis

The premise is stupid.
Iron Man and the rest of the people on his are wrong because they're idiots who refuse to even consider the possibility of using precognition to save lives because MUH RHODEY and uses buzzwords like "profiling" and saying stupid shit like "We have to let the future take its natural course even if it means Thanos kills a bunch of people". The tie-ins can be even worse
>What? The leader of a Canadian smuggling ring was arrested for stealing a tank and driving it all around town? THAT'S LIKE STOP AND FRISK, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT HE WAS GONNA DO WITH THAT TANK

Carol has so far done nothing morally dubious, we haven't seen any actual pre-crime Minority Report arrests. Hawkeye acted entirely on his own.

Hi Brian.

I don't hate it but something really seems off. I mean Bruce Banner died and I didn't feel anything. It just sort of happened. I think some of the characters are acting retarded and while I'm not an X-fag it bothers me that none of the other heroes care about their genocide

Is it complete? I'll go read it if it is

I get the feeling from the previous issue that they writer wasent happy with having to do this tie in.

Because it's an event where one group of heroes fights another group of heroes.

Name a major Marvel event that wasn't that in the last ten goddamn years, I fucking dare you.

Also, it's just shoddily written, and a clear cash-in for the movie.

She-Hulk is much less powerful than her cousin, but she's still up there.
That the missile put her down is absolutely retarded, and when this was pointed out to Bendis his response was "well obviously War Machine brought his special Thanos-fighting missles."

So Tony can make compact, easy-to-use explosives powerful to kill She-Hulk with a single blast, but it never came up and in fact has still not come up in-universe.

The writing is literally at the same level of Sup Forums shitposting

She-Hulk is weaker that Hulk (but then again, who isn't) but no missile should've kill her. She has healing factor, it's dumb for her to be in coma.

>let's force the writers on our teenage hero's to speed up and fuck over the character development they have had planed just so we can have something interesting in our shitty event.

And we do it for free!

>Spider-Man, Kamala, and Captain Marvel finish eachother's sentences

Do tie ins count or is all this retardation from the main line.

The good books often suffer the most.

Shame more writers don't do the Ewing thing, planning the story around the impending forced tie-ins from the get-go.

The terrible race politics come from tie-ins.

Is it me, or does Marvel feel like it's being written by teenagers, for teenagers

Teenagers would write fuckload of cool FEATS, right? This looks like it's written to kick me in stomach.

Then tick off Changing sides. Nightcrawler went over to Magneto

Teenagers have no interest in social politics. Hipsters and college kids do. What we have here is old jewish men channeling their inner hipsters and writing about their extremist left views.

I don't know, something about it feels like pandering. The characters all speak in the same "we're just casual, you know, hanging out" kind of manner, everyone has to quip and make some kind of reference to the internet.

It feels weird.

It's being written by adults who have stagnated since their teens, for themselves. It's the only way any of this makes any sense, cause other wise who the fuck is it for? who is the target audience? coma patients? people too disabled to tell whoevers showing it to them to fuck off?

This thread is as good as any other marvel civil war thened one, so I''ll ask.

I've just heard fron soneone that said someone read on thw internet that Mockingbird solo is going to deal with the issue of the killing of Banner, the issue about tge ghost roder and the divorce, and that tge writter is going to shit on Clint. Is this true? Does anyone know anithing? And didn't they already cover the deal of it (sans Banner murder) in the H/M run a few years ago?

Is the X-Men mini even really related much the Tony/Carol conflict?

That's just how Bendis writes.
He got progressively lazier over the years and now everyone is a smug, hip asshole.

her team collab that got all this shit started was definetely her fault. who the fuck brings rhodey, jen, and outside the ultimates a bunch of breakables to a thanos fight?

teenagers don't have any interest in politics cause they already know all of it. they don't mind explaining it for us though.

And Psylocke to EXM.
Lamest mutant 2016.

I don't think rhody understands what terrorism is.

The Mockingbird solo is not worth your time or attention.
Do not let it trouble you further.

>we haven't seen any actual pre-crime Minority Report arrests
It's funny how in Civil War II: Kingpin, Wilson is making a speech about a fascist nightmarish dystopia where people are arrested before they do anything, only for Jigsaw to point out that he's talking to a room full of people that are already criminals. The only people seen arrested in the issue were the Owl and Madame Masque, who should already be in prison anyway.

"Latveria is under united states protection until a preliminary democratic government can be implemented!"

Jesus fucking christ, where do these writers get their ideas?

Time Magazine circa 2004?

That's just Bendis. Everyone's dudebro with each other, hanging out and having jolly good time. Then you blink and you see half of New York is in ruins and corpses of superheroes are everywhere.
>Is the X-Men mini even really related much the Tony/Carol conflict?
Magneto attacked some muggas in Dubai or wherever, Terrigen Cloud appears and starts killing everyone, wild Storm and her EXM appear, save them, tell them about Homer, Magneto decides Homer has to die.

It was her boyfriend (who was just around at the time) and the bulk of her two teams.

And it's not like they don't all constantly leap at this sort of thing anyway.

Is he supposed to come off as a dangerous asshole?

I'm afraid of it if it could affect future relationships and portrayals in actual good runs.

if shes supposed to be a leader, then she needs to be aware of what her squads are capable of. letting anyone other than you biggest hitters go up against the mad titan is asking for corpses.

No worries.
Continuity and characterization means nothing to Marvel anymore.
In a year it won't even mattered in-universe than Hawkeye killed Hulk.

>Is he supposed to come off as a dangerous asshole?
Well apart from not understanding the difrence between terrorism and regular old war he doesent seem to bad

I... I hope so. Thank you for the support, user.

I hope so because that was completely out of character

pretty sure it won't matter by October

He just seems pretty eager to kill a bunch of people who clearly have no idea what he just said.

Exactly!

>Characters acting out of character
>- the characters are behaving in character, you just don't (or won't) understand their motives.

They are, just starting with the core conflict. Tony and Carol used to be tight, to the point that they were nearly shipbait. Moreover, Tony's wailing over 'muh best friend iz ded' completely whitewashes over the fact that even if Ulysses was found to be only -kinda- accurate, Rhodes likely still would have gone, IF NOT TONY HIMSELF. The series is acting like death is an unexpected part of the superhero gig.

>and the constant precog foil of accuracy in probability. READ.

They've done a truly crap job of delving into this, and they did an especially crap job of defining Ulysses' power set. When Tony kidnapped him, he defined his abilities as "absorbing data to make detailed predictions". What data could he possibly have absorbed to predict two extra-terrestrial events? And as of the current issue, he's clearly NOT infallible, as it's hard to Hulk out when you're dead. As to multiple timelines and time travelers, Marvel's take on that is already fucked enough.

>especially egregious as bendis himself stranded the 60s era X-men in the future
>- and now you're trying to link an irrelevant storyline for no damned reason.

Goes back to the crappily defined power set. Assuming the O5 actually DO go back, they could negate every one of his predictions.

>bendis speak
>- words! How horrible! You didn't buy a picture book to read!

He hasn't been egregiously bad here. There's been some overwrought speechifying, but it's an event, that happens.

>NOTHING WILL EVER BE THE SAME
>- Pretty much, haven't you noticed yet? Marvel actually makes storylines that matter.

Bullshit. They killed Rhodes and Banner because those two haven't had high-profile deaths yet. I guarantee you that both of them will be alive and kicking by the time their movie counterparts are on the big screen again. Same with Tony Stark as Iron Man.

>who the brings a bunch of breakables to a thanos fight?
The Avengers

Fuck off with that shit you're pushing.

There's a whole fanbase of Marvel "characterfags" that show up on Sup Forums because their characters are the same people they know and love.
Did you just not notice that?
They don't even say "Punisher" anymore because "Frank" is the character. "Frank" has always been the character.
"Kamala", Scott", "Laura", "Spock", and "Tony" himself.

Wanna say something about "Bruce"? About how that character hasn't stayed true? Go on.

What in God's holy name are you blathering about?

What? Did I miss a piece of text in my browser? I don't get the link between your reply and his.

Those are not giants, my lord.

My biggest issue with CW2 so far is that it's done fuck-all with a potentially interesting premise. In three issues, what we've had so far is Tony going "Muh Rhodey" and "Precogs, how do they work", Carol going "It's so hard being right, why is Tony being a dick", and random shock deaths. There's been virtually nothing about how this kind of ability could be exploited. The Inhumans are barely surviving in a crashed city-ship in the Hudson. Maybe they'd like to use Ulysses to manipulate some stocks, create some political favor by offering info from his visions? Or instead of exploitation, how about sheer panic? What happens if the world finds out Inhumans can (semi)accurately predict the future? Or Americans? Or the lunatic, go everywhere and shoot everything Avenger crowd?

Rhodes dying sucks, but it's being written like no hero ever died before in the MCU. And nobody gives two shits about someone shooting Bruce Banner - he's been portrayed as suicidal for years. Realistically, nobody's going to shed many tears over assisted suicide. So far, this isn't a civil war, it's a superhero snit.

>Tony kidnaps a kid he could have tested before without bringing all the heroes down on him
>tit missile
>throwaway thanos and celestials so heroes can fight each other again
>Ewing has to fix all of Bendis's continuity errors

They still haven't gotten to the second act disaster, the instigating factor that polarizes everyone into a place where it's immoral to not take a stand. The moral outrage part.
When that happens you'll see someone (Parker last time) switch sides in a very big way. And with an explaination that will fall on deaf ears.
The whole Tony argument so far has been that we don't know what we're dealing with. At the very end of #3 he finds out what that is, odds are that single fact will be a gamechanger.
And let's not forget that by the end of this story Ulysses' prophecies will never be used to fight crime ever again.

How exactly is what Ulysses does "profiling"?
How exactly does one "profile" a future where a Celestial Destructor (a being nobody ever knew about and still don't) and Thanos are going to attack? That has nothing to do with racial biases or social media or whatever.

I think it feels like Fear Itself, where they had VERY IMPORTANT MOMENTS that didn't feel important. Like when Bucky died, it didn't have any impact. Or even when Captain America lifted Thor's hammer. For some reason it lacked the weight of prior times when Cap himself or other people lifted the hammer.

Spencer had to do a tie-in and needed to find some way to make it lazily political.

Except Bendis has Tony say almost the exact same thing in Miles Morales' book

>let's go stop the banner from hulking out
>But instead of talking to him inside while we have everybody outside ready to fight him let's take him outside so he can see all the guns trained on him.
Isent that going to make him far more likely to hulk out.

You know, I think that's the biggest, biggest problem with this. It's supposed to feel important yet doesn't. At all.

And worse is that a lot of this we've seen before and better. We've seen precog mutants. We've seen hero vs hero in AvX and Civil War, hell we've seen Iron Man doing dubious things. We've seen that Hulk doesn't kill easily no matter how many times they do it. We've seen someone replace Iron Man before (James Rhodes). We've seen a minority hero replace a longtime hero (Rhodes replacing Tony, Miles, replacing Ultimate Peter, Monica taking on the name Captain Marvel, etc) We've seen a villain replace a hero before.

It's not that they can't do any of these again, it's that Civil War 2 doesn't seem like it's bringing anything new to the table.

This is great if you read Miles' "is it?" as a "are you fucking serious with this shit" rather than a legitimate question.
Of all the ways to play this you're really going with profiling. I guess it's "original" atleast.

If I was banner Hawkeye is one of the last people I would ask I'm honestly surprised he did it.

Oh wait bendis doesn't care about prior characterisation

The way Tony describes it IS profiling in a way, the person with that ability would statistically discover that every time the Hulk goes quiet because he supposedly has been depowered that he reactivates X days later. That there is a % probability that he will kill someone because his reactivation outbursts don't follow his standard non-lethal actions. He could then analyze the past actions of Banner and realize that subconsciously the Hulk gets even angrier at things that it fears, so it would attack Hawkeye first and lethally because Hawkeye has something that can harm it.

The issue is that A this string of logic requires either almost meta omniscient levels access to character's actions and information, and also requires that the profiler has glaring holes in his knowledge such as recent interactions with Tony Stark and the fact that he has actually been truly depowered.

Finally, Ulysses power is NOT what Tony describes because A: It would not allow him to detect extraterrestrial events like Thanos or Celestial weaponry being used, and B: It would not allow for such precise calculations of such events down to the minute.

Ulysses either has true future seeing power, or he has a probability and profiling ability combined with a very, VERY shitty extra sense similar to Spiderman's spider sense but more details but almost random in what it chooses to feed into his subconscious.

This. It's not just profiling, it's PURE profiling. He's not showing any inherent biases in his predictions so far. He's not a police officer looking at a group of black kids hanging out and saying "Shit, they're up to something", he's the police officer looking at a guy on the sidewalk looking around while hanging next to the deserted alley and saying "Hm, something's likely to go down here". There could be interesting stories there, but... we're not gonna get them.

>Ulysses power is NOT what Tony describes because A: It would not allow him to detect extraterrestrial events like Thanos or Celestial weaponry being used, and B: It would not allow for such precise calculations of such events down to the minute.

Yeah, so far, this has been REALLY poorly handled.

I wouldn't really say I hate it, I'm just really not impressed with it. And if I was reading this or something like this before Sup Forums story times and I felt the need to pick up titles I don't normally read anyway to get a better understanding of this story. I'd really feel like I wasted money.

Worst part is that Kamala's sister-in-law doesn't know anything about Ulysses or his predictions, so why the hell is she bringing it up?

>The future hasn't happened. How can you see it?
Well Tony, there's this thing called "time travel". I don't know if you've heard about it before.

Exactly, I think Bendis has watched too much Criminal Minds and thought that this story would be interesting. Ulysses even looks kinda like Reid a bit when certain artists draw him.

It's "profiling" because everyone who's ever had a timetravel adventure knows that there are multiple future timelines diverging away from the present, and that future you saw isn't going to happen now that you've seen it.
Whenever one of the other precogs or timetravelers in the Marvel U would see the future they would either get a single factoid of something happening very soon, or a vision of something that could happen if they don't act to change fate. One vision was of the timeline they were in and about to experience, the other was of a timeline they would act to avoid living in.
So how do you tell apart the future timeline you've seen from the one you're in?
Ulysses can somehow predict what timeline he's going to end up in of all the possibilities, but when he acts he changes that future, so that wasn't actually a true vision of the future either.
That prediction of actions not yet certain to be is the "profiling".

I still don't see anything wrong with it.

Well changing the future is the objective is it not?

In the impure form, it's the reasoning behind cops pulling over black drivers in 'white' neighborhoods, or suspecting gay men of being pedos. The bias drives the profile, leading to faulty conclusions.

In the pure form, it's statistically driven off of probability curves and projections, which doesn't allow for free will or random chance. Maybe someone has a change of heart and doesn't rob the bank, maybe someone goes a different way home that day and cools off instead of murdering their spouse.

Butterfly theory. There's no way to tell that Ulysses visions make the future better, just that one event. Now that Banner is dead, maybe he isn't around to turn the tide in the next alien invasion, or maybe Hawkeye isn't there to take the crucial shot that nobody with a computer-guided targeting system, magic accuracy, or similar training could make.

>just wondering why you guys seem to hate it

Because hating everything is what all the cool kids do. Only faggots actually like anything.

Sure thing OP

>In the pure form, it's statistically driven off of probability curves and projections, which doesn't allow for free will or random chance. Maybe someone has a change of heart and doesn't rob the bank, maybe someone goes a different way home that day and cools off instead of murdering their spouse.
Then don't arrest them. Like I said, we haven't seen any pre-crime arrests yet.
Do what Spider-Man did in his tie-in. Follow a guy until he sees him break into his exe's house with a gun, THEN punch him and arrest him.
And if the person in the vision is already on the run from the law, use the intel from the vision to know where he's gonna be and arrest him, like they did with Owl, Madame Masque and Hijinx.


>There's no way to tell that Ulysses visions make the future better
Except you can. A world where the Celestial Destructor doesn't desolate NYC, a world where Thanos doesn't kill everyone at Project Pegasus and steals Iso-8, a world where people are evacuated before an earthquake and a world where you stop the Brood from setting up a nest on Earth are all objectively better futures.