Communism

Why doesn't communism work in practice? Isn't it just everyone sharing and being nice with each other?

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People are far more motivated by their own interests than the interests of others.

because it's bayyyyd

why should i work hard when the girl next to me can't even do half the shit i can do and get paid the same? fuck that noise

Communism as described doesn't work in theory either. To be honest it doesn't even sound nice.

/thread

This but more specifically

1. It totally screws up human incentives.

2. Centrally planned economies even at the local level are very inefficient due in part to the information problem.

Bread eaten is soon forgotten. Not everyone is willing to put in the same effort for public interest. People who expect other people to share are often those who don't want to doing any sharing.

Humanity is shit.

Literally ANY system of government works if we can just stop sticking our dicks up eachothers asses for 20 consecutive minutes.

Guess we'll just go fucking extinct instead, though.

It does work in practice.
You just need less than 50 people

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_corruption

Boy that was hard.

Because people are inherently self centered. You can bind groups of similar people togheter (see nations) and make them push for common goals, and even that is quite hard to accomplish and you will have dissidents. The idea of binding the whole world togheter will never work since you will have too many differing opinions and ideas for such a system to last.

no one is motivated by communism, since the state literally takes the bulk of your earnings. Why live?

Comunnism woks for ants. Society purely driven from one goal. To produce more ants.
Human want's more.
Also, communism works under presumption that everyone is the same. Same in sense of clone, same needs, same desires, same goals. world of copies.
And this is when theory hits reality. And it's nasty. Because communism, in order to set itself up, needs great state aparatus, with great power, it becomes lure for power hungry sociopaths and pleasure driven psychopaths. And you get government full of disconnected philosophers, whose subordinates are least human possible creatures in whole society. Recipe for nightmares, which totalitarian regime is.

Having all economic activity chortled through a string of lethargic committees/bureaucracies is fantastically stupid when all the persons in a given economy could instead just directly trade with each other when ever they want.

a major part of communism is communal ownership of the means of production. co-operatives are the closest thing we have to that in the US. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Means_of_production

It's not just the fact that total obliteration of trade is a problem. The cultural aspects of Marxism when applied butcher effective education, the family and other key aspects of life.

It basically harms every innate conservative feature humans, and human society has evolved. "My family is more important than genetic and cultural strangers."

It simply means: Abandon all authority, so I can rule over you as I want.

Because humans are individualistic (read: selfish).

Rich people like to stay rich and poor people want to become rich. That's why capitalism, for all its flaws, will still win over altruistic communism.

The best government is a small government, but the worst government is either no or an omnipresent government. Communism requires an omnipresent government while promising a non-existent government. For this reason, Libertarianism and corporatism is superior to communism. Tribalism is nice for a comfy small-population, but breaks down as the number go up.

>Because people are inherently self centered.

This. Communism doesn't even work with two people. I had the unfortunate experience of rooming with my "best" friend during college. Despite him having Marxist views, he took complete advantage of my generosity while at the same time not even lifting a finger to help me when I asked for it.

Tribalism isn't remotely communist, it's as conservative as you can get.

Tribal societies have rigid gender roles, a strict hierarchy, family and culture matters more than anything "international."

Tribes are conservative as fuck.

Marxism is just one clever - and evil - swindle. In anything it is talking about.

Take marxist perception of "The 1%" as an example: It even says that these super-rich are only "victims of the system", of some sort of Orwellesque mechanical world, where they are fulfilling "bourgeois" obsessions without knowing the real world.

Yeah. No surprise Marxist get easily fooled.

>any government could work if people didn't have brains

Go back to Mexico.

On paper, communism is a grand idea. Unfortunately it doesn't work because human beings are involved.

>Why doesn't communism work in practice?
Because you have countries like the Baltics who will bitch and moan to the whole world how Oppressive Russia is even after they been freed for over twenty years yet they still have the audacity to blame Russia for every problem big or small.

No. Even on paper it is evil.

Good point. Check out "Twin Oaks". Doing it willingly, and not by force, helps the process.

OP here

To shift the conversation a bit. Why does socialism work (usually) but not communism?

One word, incentives.

Depends on what you count as socialism and what country has practice socialism?

it doesn't work in theory either

they don't even try to adress the things that make it not work

also, communism goes directly against humanity and if it did work it would degenerate the humans living under it into useless blobs because it goes directly against evolution and competition

A good idea by itself, it only works with creatures that have a sense of fairness and sufficiency though (read: not human)

It doesn't.

The external debt that citizens and firms are holding in northern European countries is absolutely insane.

because communism turns into a violent massmurdering movement as soon as someone says:"No! I'm not taking part in your shit."

commies can't handle opposition. everyone has to be in line. if someone steps out of bounds the commies have to kill him.

>Isn't it just everyone sharing and being nice with each other?

No. It is the government forcibly seizing all private wealth and property and then appointing a bunch of unelected bureaucrats to decided what gets "fairly" handed out. That is why in all communist societies there really is a top 1% while the 99% of the people are peasants and slaves of the state.

Tribes are nice, but a larger society needs something to keep everything in balance and to organize large infrastructure and science projects. Real traditional tribes should come back and exist within modern society. People are so desperate for tribal affiliation right now that they damn near worship sports and media franchises using words like "us" and "our" when talking about the collective of the fans and performers.

Communism never works because the principle assumes every involved is perfect and honest people when in reality it quite the opposite .
> people lie and scheme
> some people are lazy or not motivated
It's mostly because people are naturally selfish , you can help others to a degree, but in the end , it's you who matters

Human nature

It doesn't.

people aren't nice

I said grand, not good.

Imagine a team of oxen all yoked together. These oxen have been specially picked based on equal size and ability. But no matter how "equal" they all are, one ox will be the slowest and the some of the others will have to pull a little more weight. Add in a human's free will to the equation and it quickly becomes a race to the bottom, not the top.

In capitalism & communism there's a single rule that applies to both...earn as much as possible while doing the least amount of work as possible.

socialism tends to work because it targets certain sectors of the economy, namely energy and transport, the basic essentials people need to function in society. it's probably a bad example, but i always think of simcity and how you can plop power plants and water pumps because you need those for anything else to grow "organically". if you specify democratic socialism, you're adding another layer of safety from big government.

You don't even get "earnings". You get paid in food, shelter, and a little folding money to spend at the company store.

I wasn't praising primitive tribes as being an answer, rather all primitive cultures/tribes are conservative like that for a reason. It allows their continuation.

If we're to look for good traits for modern society, let's look at long lasting civilisations. The Greeks and the Chinese, they both had/has a deep rooted social philosophy which bonded society together. Confucism/Stoicism.

Plain and simple. It doesn't allow for great innovation, stopping economic growth.

It also slows production, due to an effect caused by people getting paid for doing nothing

In Poland in times of PRL:
> Every worker get this same amount of money, doesn't matter that he's efficiency was 200% or 10%. So everybody worked on their 10% they're produced a minimal numbers of products and this creating a serious problems when you have a lot of money and empty shops.
> Social for anything but not work
> Bigger fishes and government still steal all moneys and you couldn't say anything against it without secret services making your life as hell (why you don't like our gov, pal?)
> Add to this a very corrupted police and mentioned previously secret service and propaganda media
> Well, shittone of coruption. You could do anything if you drink with correct person

This system was, is and will be shitty

Its a meme but true marxism really hasnt been tried.
Socialism sort of works beause it dosnt have to destroy ALL the traditional class structures to work

>There is a top 1% and everyone else is a slave
So capitalism too?

>Why doesn't communism work in practice?
Derevianni rubli

Because in practice people aren't so good at sharing and being nice with each other for extended periods of time.

>Literally ANY system of government works if we can just stop sticking our dicks up eachothers asses for 20 consecutive minutes.
i really doubt socialism works when 90% of your population is brain dead retards who can't even maintain the socialist systems in place that were magically built on their own.

>Why doesn't communism work in practice?

Because people aren't equal to each other, and using artificial means to make them equal at best doesn't help much, and at worst just creates an even more rigid hierarchy between revolutionary elite and the working class

Communism does not work because there can never be a perfectly functioning State apparatus, that would be like a completely efficient system or machine which is a technical fantasy even the Sun is a process of decay.

First post, best post.

communism will only work if every single person involved wants the same thing, one stalin, and the USSR shit show is what you get

>Humanity is shit.

Here's the problem. Communism and lefties in general assume that people are fundamentally good and any bad they do is a result of material oppression, alienation or some other shit. So on the left of the left, you've got anarchists who believe that everyone will settle down and form into basket weaving colonies, and that doctors will trade their service for said baskets. And the other side of the left, Marxist-leninists are authoritarian, that is directly control thier people to enforce the leftism and suppress human nature. This authoritarianism tends towards totalitarianism.

because it is an inherent flaw in humanity that prevents it from working:
Greed.
Can't wipe it out, so no one will ever be happy with equal portions. Someone will always lie about an ill grandmother unable to collect her rations, someone will always find ways to circumvent the rules. It's just not a possibility.

>socialism usually works
but that's wrong

People are inherently selfish and self interested. Capitalism harnesses that into helping your community by providing services/goods in exchange for other's services/goods; communism ignores this and results in mass death.

>Russian revolution
>lack of food
>cannibalism
>China post WW2
>lack of food
>cannibalism
>North Korea
>lack of food
>cannibalism
>Venezuela
>lack of food
>cannibalism soon?
the joy of communism

>Sharing