Explain the 'bring the jobs back from Mexico!' obsession pls lads

Seriously. I don't get it.

The strangest thing about the whole ‘get the jobs back from Mexico’ thing is that Americans are tacitly resigning themselves to being in competition with Mexico, which is bizarre.

America is a superpower. Why does it want to do the same stuff as a middle-income country? Why does America want to assemble average-quality motor vehicles or manufacture air conditioning units?

America used to do things which no other nation could do. America could split the atom; America could put men on the moon. Other countries just watched.

Now America is apparently desperate to get back $10/hr low-level manufacturing jobs.

To try to do the same stuff forever is never a good strategy, because sooner or later someone with lower expectations is going to come along and do it cheaper, because they aren’t used to the same living standards. To try to compete with Mexico or China is crazy. They will always be able to copy stuff you do (albeit some time after you do it first, and at a somewhat lower quality) and charge much less for it.

Instead of scrapping over low-paying jobs, you need to create fundamentally new products that Mexican workers do not have the capacity to produce at rock-bottom prices.

You don't have to compete with these people. You can do fundamentally new, qualitatively different things. Your parents and grandparents knew that.

Why don't you?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=UTJB8AkT1dk
techradar.com/us/news/world-of-tech/10-tech-breakthroughs-to-thank-the-space-race-for-617847/2
cis.org/immigrant-welfare-use-2011
youtube.com/watch?v=Mc_4Z1oiXhY
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

>you need to create fundamentally new products
Whoa, brilliant idea, never thought of this. I'll go to my garage and make something new, be right back.

Very nice. A reasonably racist argument, fit for Sup Forums. Unfortunately, you are a faggot, so technically anything you say has been vomited from the mouth of Satan, and is therefor nothing but half-truths and filthy lies, with only enough truth spun in to confuse men's natural sense of decency. Begone demon!

In what way did splitting the atom or going to the moon create jobs for people?

How have either of those things benefitted the american people in any tangible way?

> In what tangible way has nuclear power benefitted the American people?

> In what tangible way did investment in space exploration and rocket technology, which gave us global instantaneous satellite communication, benefit the American people?

C'mon son

k

shill. one problem is a lot of the resources needed to produce are not available to most americans. even if learning a skill is cheap, putting it into market isn't always viable if you're poor. another problem is that lucrative jobs tend to need a hyper-competitive nature that most americans have never experienced let alone practice.

basically people want shit jobs because they're already begging for scraps.

NO ONE NEEDS TO EXPLAIN SHIT TO YOU FAGGOT WHY DONT YOU WORRY ABOUT ALL THOSE SHITSKINS FLOODING INTO YOUR COUNTRY BEFORE YOU WORRY ABOUT OUR SHITSKINS

>mexicans take american jobs in USA, gringos get mad
>mexicans get jobs in mexico, gringos still mad

America is desperate to get them back because people need to work.
Theres no benefit to being a welfare queen, none at all. It's bad for you.

What I think you fail to realise is that if you stop illegal workers, it means that workers are protected by the government. This means they have to get paid more, and have other benefits.

This (eventually) means that businesses that exploit illegal workers either improve their products or go out of business. Good. Fuck em.

This (eveeeentually) means that the gap between rich and poor narrows. This is Trumps actual goal.

I don't believe Trump is addicted to wealth generation like the wall street types. He just wants to be the best. The absolute numbers don't mean shit to him.

He sees and understands that the wealth gap is disincentivising to people. And its counter productive.

>mexicans exist

there's the problem.

Why can't they work on new things?

Why do they want so badly to do what they were doing 40 years ago?

It strikes me as incredibly unambitious to want to get back to where you were decades ago rather than to do anything new and more valuable.

Because it's better than service industry bullshit.
Some people just want a fucking 9 to 5 job.

> some people just want a fucking 9 to 5 job.

And you think we should indulge their lack of ambition?

Fuck your ambition. Living is more important.
You're disconnected from reality.

How can a chicago or detroit black person do these jobs?

Theres no need for new things, and the reality is if you start bringing back basic labour work it will improve everyones life.

Here's a newsflash user : Some people aren't capable of doing face to face work. Some people are only capable of digging a hole. And that's perfectly okay! Theres nothing wrong with that.

The problem is when you look at the people only capable of this and say "Why do I pay these people a living wage?? I could be richer if I hired mexicans".

What's the point in continuing to live if you just do the same shit every day for decades on end, never doing anything meaningful with your whole life?

That sounds a fate far worse than death.

>Their lack of ambition
>Implying that you work more than 8 hours
>Go reply to another board
>Faggot

You fool.
You work to get money so you can support your family.

This is the true damage done to people today. Not understanding that work is a means to an end, not the end itself.

Even feminsts are stupid "Wahh I wanna be a CEO", no, you want millions of dollars. Pretty sure you don't want to work 70 hours a week.

1. Those people never really worked anyway.

2. There's absolutely a need for new things. If you get diagnoses with cancer tomorrow, do you just want to get radiotherapy / chemotherapy like people have been getting for 50 years, and probably end up dying? Or do you want new technologies and treatments to be developed so that you can get better?

Do you want your flight from New York to London to be faster than it was in 1970?

3. Those people have something wrong with them, and they need to be fixed. With new technology. We can improve them.

Not my problem you can't see the forest for the trees.
A country of millions isn't going to be a bunch of fucking inventors and scientists. Shit has to get done and people need to stay familiar with putting shit together if they want to innovate. Working at a McDonalds or Walmart isn't going to do shit to help you, you'll just burn out.

You're apparently too dense to see that.

There is no point in having children if their lives will be no better than your own - and the only way they'll have a better life than their parents or their grandparents is if people have the courage and the conviction to do new things and build the future.

If we just lean back and say 'actually, we're pretty much done as a species; this is fine, we don't need to do anything new, we don't need to make anything better, let's just keep everything as it is' we are essentially committing species-level suicide. Eventually an extinction event (manmade or otherwise) will wipe out life on Earth, and all of the last few billion years of evolution will have come to nothing.

When did I advocate for working at a McDonalds or Walmart?

I said the exact opposite.

And not *everyone* is going to be an innovator in the sense that not *everyone* is going to invent a new product; but people used to recognise, 'hey, this is new, this is exciting, I will go and do this' when something fundamentally different started. People flocked from all over the country to work for Ford when his cars were new. People flocked from all over the country to work for Boeing when their aeroplanes were new.

They don't do it anymore. People now generally stay within ~50 miles their hometown for their whole lives.

Relax, you're trying to teach a conservatard about evolution/progession.

> i want to build the highest tower in the world, without concerns for its long-term stability
Eventually, the peasants come to cut the head off the ruling class. Maybe the bloodshed will stop there. Or maybe, it will spread throughout the entire populace and 10-20% will lose their lives, like in Russia or China last century. It's been three generations since something like that happened, so we are ripe for it again.

Or we could just take care of our own working class, and let every other nation sort out their own problems. Yes, it's not an "absolute economic maximum" type of strategy, but your chances of drowning in your own blood are minimized. We've got a real live revolutionary proletariat building over here too, by the way. I've seen it, and heard it when it opened its mouth to speak. We don't have much time to turn things around left. This is our last shot.

They don't do that anymore because we're not as free or skilled anymore.
Maybe the skill part has something to do with sending away all the damn jobs that help you learn how to put shit together, hmmm.

>Why can't they work on new things?

like what exactly?

we have 350+ million people. we're overpopulated, underemployed and underpaid.

not everyone can be a "creative" or a "social media analcyst" living in some expensively fashionable coastal megalopolis. for the forgotten parts of the country a steady factory job that pays enough is the best and most realistic aspiration.

trainspotting is actually the best representation of what it's like being poor, white and trapped in a rotting rust-belt city in the current year. no other movie quite captures the overwhelmingly oppressive feeling of pure unmitigated despair. that is how bad it is. that is how utterly hopeless people are.

high quality bait

So lets just throw the people who have lower capacity under the bus. In which case, you should have zero problems deporting illegal mexicans anyway.

In no way am I against progress. Of course progress is important. But no matter what you do, at least 50% of people are going to be average intelligence or stupider. Whats your proposition as the world gets more and more technical and harder to understand? Eugenics?

Humans are still animals and we have a need for primary production, eg, food, infrastructure to be built. There is no shame in doing this work. There is nothing wrong with this work. Supporting people who are only capable of this work is the moral duty of those who are capable of more.


Oh so we all have to improve endlessly or theres no point to living? Is that it? Endless growth?

I have never said not to improve. I have only said you are missing the point that a huge proportion of humans alive today, and yes, in your country, would not be able to follow our conversation. And this does not mean that the "right" thing to do is to use illegal mexican labour to do jobs they can do so a few "entrepreneurs" can have more money.

>America could split the atom; America could put men on the moon.

Those arent jobs and we were putting together motor vehicles and air conditioners while we were doing those things.

What I don't understand is why Michael Moore doesn't support Trump.

Trump is promising to do EXACTLY what Michael Moore wanted in Roger & Me.

He is promising LESS intervention in the middle east which is what Michael Moore wanted in Fahrenheit 911.

But tearing up NAFTA and starting again, putting the jobs of Americans first, and engaging in economic protectionism is something that Michael Moore build his career on.

I'm barely conservative at all.
Is your premise that we should just kill all the stupid people? Let them starve? Or should all the people capable of understanding the world we live in work to support them and their desires?

Every time those people who try to get you to donate money to starving third world children try to get my shekels, I ask them, so what has putting money into their communities for literally 40+ years achieved? Bigger communities. More suffering. They never get it, just like you will never get it.

This user gets it.

I don't get the whole "bring back manufacturing" thing either.
It's basically like admitting that your country hasn't advanced enough to have a sustainable high tech industry or that no one has developed engineering patents to give better rates of production in the US.

This guy gets it.

youtube.com/watch?v=UTJB8AkT1dk

allowing immigrants in is a human rights violation and just exploitation of immigrants and the hispanic people, but liberals and dems wont want you to think that. due to their illegal status immigrants are forced to work for low wages and shit in fields or wear diapers while working for tyson, or maybe end up in a brothel. it doesnt give them anything or merit besides benefiting big corporations, if the illegals become citizens or left the they would have to pay people a higher wage, it would put more money back into the american economy but knowing some of these subsidized corporations theyll just fly in polish immigrants once the mexicans are gone and were too cucked to get them to fucking stop and put an end to it

Does this have anything to do with what I said?

I'm not talking about immigration.

I'm talking about the fact that America seems to have lost a tremendous amount of self-confidence and verve; the fact that Americans no longer believe in the future and that they should create it.

> A steady factory job that pays enough is the best and most realistic aspiration

I refuse to believe that America has fallen that far.

But Mexicans took der jobs, Britfag!

I have no idea how people keep deliberately missing the plain fact that the people who need this shit most aren't really caring about "best aspirations," but it's gone beyond banter when someone from the British isles decided to be this deliberately obtuse. I'm not going to sit back and watch Hillary Thatcher us like your parents/countrymen did, senpai.

>I mean come on why don't people in the rust belt just start up a phone app company, that'll make America great again

Cultural memes aside the people that made America a world powerhouse have nothing in common with people working day in day out to put a meal on the table. They're people who have had life handed to them on a trust fund and even then barely scraped through college to get a high-end office job where they come up with base-level marketing that makes the rest of the countries in the world think that we were ever competent as a whole, rather than just having more enclaves of power and influence in large cities.

>forget about having a strong middle class, let's just give out welfare
God you're fucking dense. No everyone can be a silicon valley tech yuppie. The more people with steady income , the better the country will be as a whole.

You nailed it...half the population doesn't even see the problem because they live in a mid to large urban area where there's a real economy going based on scale. When a city's economy isn't churning (see: Detroit), the people will leave for another city or for a much LCOL area. If you buckle down and hustle, you can make a decent living and have a nice life in a city/suburb as long as your head is on straight.

Meanwhile outside of the northeast megalopolis, Chicago, SF/LA/SD, and the TX Triangle, people are hurting. They'd love to have a shift-work job paying $10-$15/hr then go home and live their normal American lives, but those jobs are long-gone overseas. Some examples off the top of my head...textile/apparel factories, chemical factories, auto/parts plants, mining, logging, truck driving (moving to rail) and assembly/packing/handling manufacturing jobs simply do not exist in America as they did up until around '95-'00.

Will they come back? Who knows? It's tough to compete with Juan & Xuan who will work for $1/hr. Add in unchecked floods of immigrants and it's a real fucking problem. America basically became a victim of its own success. But most people still desire to work for their keep and not have to rely on the gov't to stay alive. It's time for all these elected "leaders" we have to fix the mess that a bunch of other (and a few of the same) elected "leaders" got us into. It's unfixable at this point without the government forcing something to happen, because capitalism would've found a way by now. Welcome to the 21st century...and the robots are still coming too.

When did I say 'give out welfare'?

> It's tough to compete with Juan and Xuan who will work for $1/hr.

That's exactly my point. I'm telling you that you shouldn't compete with them.

>Cheap labor, gun consumption, in an advantageous trade alliance
>still mad
What else do you need?

I think you are confused about how free markets operate.

The reason why America did cool stuff while everyone watched is because of the accumulation of wealth and capital, and the low barrier of entry to trade and business that a free market enabled.

When we start expanding government to prop people up, we create a downward spiral.

It's not about "taking jobs back from mexico." It's about removing illegals and returning to the same fertile conditions that our grandparents had.

"America" doesn't do anything. It's a collection of individuals pursuing their own interests. When you begin to lump everyone together and appoint people to use their money for them, that's when "America the superpower" becomes another third world banana republic.

it's true, i assure you. this guy is especially right the thing is, you live in these places and rub shoulders with the inhabitants... eventually you take it all as a given -- a universal truth. it's just the reality. nobody is optimistic about the future. nobody talks about how things will get better... only worse. there just isn't any hope; the closest thing there to that feeling in the forgotten post-industrial wastes of america is the chance to get a $12.75 an hour job in one of the remaining factories (working graveyard, with mandatory overtime, and taking home a check under the base pay). i'll remind you people are thankful even for that, because although industrial labor is dehumanizing at least you're making something -- you can be proud of your work although it destroys you mentally, physically and emotionally.

for the less fortunate there is always walmart (or some other demeaning service job). even then, there's always heroin waiting if it's all too much.

i wasn't exaggerating when i said trainspotting captured it perfectly.

What I don't understand is people get mad at mexicans taking their jobs, but then say they only live on welfare, damn, pick one, they are literally mutually exclusive

>you need to create fundamentally new products

Every time we do the Jews send its production to china

Exactly. One builds upon the experience and expertise of the other.

Lefty can't admit when a Righty is right. If Trump was running on the Democrat ticket Moore would be all over him.

Because these low level jobs are the only way to properly lower unemployment. Not everyone can or even should go to college and get a college level job.

No they aren't

Some do jobs under the table and collect welfare at the same time...

Some just take jobs

some just get welfare

We are talking about 1.5 to 2 million new mexicans a year.

thats 2 million people doing different things

Jobs are not an end in themselves. If you just want to create jobs, you can have people dig ditches with spoons and then fill them back up again.

But that doesn't create prosperity.

A lot of the jobs people in America do today are hardly any more valuable than that. They get a small paycheck, but they're producing shockingly little value.

/thread desu

nothing i can add to this discussion
grow up OP, not everyone is like you

look bong there are not enough jobs for college educated people. non college educated people are the majority in the country. 80% never go

by your logic why does the UK own mineral rights in other countries. isnt it beneath you to even pay others to dig in the ground. why do you want to fish? isnt that what abos do in south east asia

Aaaand the proof is?

Yes. I want readily available labor jobs because that's how I like to work.

It makes me happy.

For reference, I code computer games as a hobby and do city-planning on the side.

Yeah we willingly deindustrialized our country because some kike said free markets solve all problems

Then those same kikes invested in countries that devalue their currency and made billions of dollars

I actually got in this same argument with my brother in law.
He works for the IRS, literally his job is exposing frauds and cheats and he can't seem to fathom mexicans doing this.
Apparently all brown people are saints and it's only white people who commit crimes.

There is a fuckton of technology we have today that is only here because of the space race and other related things.

Here's just a couple:
techradar.com/us/news/world-of-tech/10-tech-breakthroughs-to-thank-the-space-race-for-617847/2

Well shitty institutions you have there, even "brown" unintelligent people can cheat, I wonder what can a intelligent person do

>Those people never really worked anyway.
Oh bullshit you stupid fuck.

>Those people have something wrong with them, and they need to be fixed. With new technology. We can improve them.
Take your elitism and shove it up your snooty ass. People like you make "intelligent" into a curse word.

Because those middle class jobs provide income for americans in an ideal world, instead of illegals who spend half of it buying shit from drug dealers, and sending the other half back to mexico so their family can pay the cartels.

Seriously, I live in new mexico and I would absolutely love to have a job working construction, but I can't. Seriously there are eternally postings for new hires for city and local construction jobs, and i've got 3 years of experience, but I always lose out to immigrants who will work under the table, for minimum wage or less than minimum wage. I simply can't compete with that, because it's fucking illegal.

Blub blub low aspirations

Aspiring to have a steady job manufacturing auto parts is much better than aspiring to work at Walmart or McDonalds. If you aspire to either of those you are mentally ill

This is not 'aiming low' a good job is aiming straight

Yeah my uncle made 200k a year throughout the 80's and 90's roofing and now he's lucky to make 30k a year. We should literally nuke Mexico for having to fucking balls to step foot on our clay

How else will they survive?

That is literally the American dream. What are you talking about?

You should nuke those who let the Mexicans in, who outsourced to China and India...

You know who

>How else will they survive?
He doesn't care how they'll survive. They're not """intelligent""" so they don't deserve to. Darwin and all that.

I'm sick of the fucking people who play jew games.

We should just nuke mexico north Africa and the middle east

This guy seems to think we're going to invent something and that production won't be immediatly shipped to ling ping or Juan in their countries. Or even worse 3 million of them will come here on H1Bs

But then again he's also putting down factory work so I guess we'll all just be inventors or something. This whole thread is pic related.

i think this guy thinks that re-educating middle aged, unemployed miners/factory workers in... something is a viable solution.

Please be trolling...

No they aren't. There are millions of you little roaches. You do both.

That won't stop the jewing though, just removes some of the pieces off the board

Mexico has less that a third of USA population, who has overpopulation problems? who are the roaches?
Can't compete? get gud

What made America great: being the world manufacturing center
What made America no longer great: exporting jobs to the third world.

>To try to do the same stuff forever is never a good strategy

Exactly why we can't do the same stuff we've been doing for decades (outsourcing).

>You can do fundamentally new, qualitatively different things.

313 million people can't, genius. This is just a meme to try to trick everyone into going STEM at once so that they can reduce the value of highly educated fields like they've reduced the value of poorly educated fields.

>Your... grandparents knew that.

Actually our grandparents knew much better than you do.

Also H-1Bs slaughter highly trained Americans just like Mexicans and Chinese slaughter poorly trained Americans.

Who said anything about overpopulation? If you flood the market with millions of unneeded labor wages get depressed. Brown people can take a hit on wages sending money to whatever shithole they climbed out of where the cost of living is less. Not to mention all the race based welfare that goes on in liberal states and on the national level in some areas.

Having a family would be a good start, work is not supposed to be the thing your life revolves around, it's supposed to be the thing that pays for your life.

And to add: Growing up my dad worked heavy construction equipment nationwide for the best wage he could pull while staying gone for weeks at a time and still does to this day. He's spent more nights in a flea-bag motel than his own bed at this point. Meanwhile mom worked a min wage job at a sewing factory for a little breathing room in the budget while grandma was the free babysitter. And I had a fine childhood because of their sacrifices and they put both me and my two sisters thru state college. In 1999, the factory ended U.S. operations, packed up all the machinery into containers, and shipped it all off to China to set up operations over there. Mom saw the light and went to work at the newly opened Wal-Mart in town. Almost 20 years later, I think they're both now going to make it to Medicare & Social Security FRA while still employed, but they've cut it close. I know it didn't work out that way for tens of millions other Americans, especially those currently in their 40s & 50s without a college degree.

The story above is absolutely 100% impossible today in America with what COL and wages are currently. Time for a change...Trump wins in a landslide.

Ashkenazi Jews are dying off at an extinction rate...They cucked themselves out of existance.

Dealing with the fallout of their cuckoldry is the future not them

It's very simple. It's called a trade deficit. We're running one of $800 billion per year. This essentially means we're consuming more than we're producing. And it means that when we go to Walmart and buy cheap shit, that money is flowing out of the country, on balance, instead of in.

Trump voters do not want a "trade war" or a complete ban on offshoring, or any of that shit. All we want is a balance of imports and exports again.

The trade has been running at a deficit for over a decade now to enrich the wealthy and destroy the middle class, and it's working.

it's impossible even for 20-30 year olds WITH degrees because the market is so fucking flooded with highly skilled workers due to the fucking massive efforts to get people to go to college.

Well guess what, the new generation did, every single fucking one of them, only there's barely enough jobs for a tiny baby fraction of a percent of those people, and the rest might as well have skipped out on college. Only they're in debt.

Numbers just don't match, you say mexicans flood the welfare and the job market at the same time, there are 13 million illegal immigrants in USA, not even only from Mexico, that against 400 million americans, Was the job market built for only 50 million and the welfare for 20 or how does this 3.25% of the population is causing so much trouble?

caveat: i voted for trump in the primaries and will vote for him in november.

however if the jobs do come back it'll all be automated to hell... so what's the fuckin' point? what will be done then? basic income? revolution?

Just stop

There are 30 million illegal Immigrants and 40 million legal.

If I have my way you will feel the heat of the sun

>13 million illegal immigrants in USA

the actual number is probably closer to 30-50 million.

>It's called a trade deficit
>This essentially means we're consuming more than we're producing.
What The Fuck
No

There is no way a service sector dominated economy can work. There's always going to be an underclass, and either you give them jobs, or you keep them on welfare, because the third option is that they riot and your country collapses.

It's more like 30 million. Plus another 40 million legal ones. The USA is in the middle of the largest mass migration in Human history, all of this in the middle of an economic downturn.

So yeah there's a bit of an effect on wages.

Oh and for the welfare because you just CAN'T believe that your little brown cucarachas consume more than the gringos.

cis.org/immigrant-welfare-use-2011

Look at the pretty graphs, Pedro.

Trying to explain an hourly shift job to someone who has likely never even touched a shovel handle in their lives is a fruitless effort.

B-but S-Sir, what about the facts?
NO I am mad! they tokin or jobs!
Letz nuk Mexico, that's the solution Merica for erytin

Millennial, detected.
Look, you teenage dirtbag baby, back in the 90s, before you were born, America manufactured half the world's shit.

Then came Bill Clinton and NAFTA, and high paying manufacturing jobs went to Mexico and Canada.

They weren't $10, more like $25+.

Also, I hope you kill yourself on your way to your $10 an hour call center job.

>Companies move to Mexico
>Less jobs for Americans
>Trump brings them back
>More jobs for Americans

Not a difficult concept.

>bring back jobs to mexico

watch youtube.com/watch?v=Mc_4Z1oiXhY
there's isn't going to be a "mexicans going back to mexico" once there's fuck all to do in the wasteland that mexico is going to become

>sun rose for the West coast a few hours ago
>suddenly Hillary shilling/anti-Trump posting is up 250%

This will be my very last post in an obvious shill thread, and I encourage the rest of you to cease replying as well. If you want to fight the shills, spend some time researching and churn out pro-Trump memes in Photoshop or whatever you have access to.

Also, there is a fatal flaw in your attack plan, CTR. I'm not going to mention what it is, but it's extremely obvious and all I'm going to say is that you aren't being as effective as you think you are. Most of the people you're arguing with aren't old enough to vote, and I've seen several of you argue with each other by accident.

Yes we should just nuke your disrespectful country

>provide facts
>get called disrespectful
Kek

>""""""""facts""""""""
damn my lying eyes.

honestly, what do you hope to accomplish other than pissing us off?

a war with you people would actually solve lots of problems.

Its not facts

Its bullshit and its not entertaining to have some spic tell me whats going on in my country..

My vote is nuking you.