United States national ID

So, i was curious about what document amerilards used as means of identification, and i found they didn't have one.
When i look for the reason, i find this:
>All legislative attempts to create a national identity card have failed due to tenacious opposition from liberal and conservative politicians alike, who regard the national identity card as the mark of a totalitarian society.

Care to explain, burgerfucks? What part of having a proper ID (aside from stopping illegals from voting) is "totalitarian"?

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Guard_Bureau
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_components_of_the_United_States_Armed_Forces#State_military_forces_distinguished
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

How do you suppose people would feel in Yurup if the EU instituted a union-wide ID system?

Semi burger here

Cons don't want a national id because they consider federal government keeping a database of its citizen (for no reason) is unconstitutional.
Dems don't want a national ID because then how are they going have illegals vote for them.

Americans identify strongly from the bottom up.
Family before city.
City before state.
State before nation.
That is why conservatives oppose it.

Also, a national ID card would keep illegals from voting. That is why liberals oppose it.

EU is not a country (yet).
Or what, are you telling me your nationality is not american but "californian" or from whatever state you may be from?

Yes.
I am Texan.

What the fuck.

How do you even carry out formalities if public services don't have an unified way to track you down? How do they register X person did X thing? Only by name? Man that's fucked up.

>national identity card

Every citizen has one already and doesn't realize it, it's their social security card.

because most public services are conducted by each individual state (which you have an ID with) and the federal government foots the bill.

You do realize each state is legally a sovereign country in the US. All the states are joined in a federation

That's why each state has their own military guard units, police, and even legal system

In some sense.

You realize our states are comparable to nations in other parts of the world, right?

Each state ID acts as a National ID good in all US states and territories, why fix what isn't broken?

>own military guard units

national guard is run by the federal government

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Guard_Bureau

You're a fucking moron

>Americans identify strongly from the bottom up
I think pretty much any society does the same. I don't see why that would be a valid reason to refuse having one national ID.
>they consider federal government keeping a database of its citizen (for no reason) is unconstitutional.
No reason? A single, standarized document that certifies your identity/nationality that can be used for stuff like financial transactions, claiming social benefits, voting, etc. is not something that is created "for no reason"

Seems like they have one ID card for each thing (driver's license, social security, etc).
Please show me any sort of official document that shows your NATIONALITY as anything other than "american". Otherwise i can't help but think you're just acting like special snowflakes.

I stand corrected

When activated by the Federal Gov with the permission of the Governor. Unless activated for federal service they are funded (mostly) and under the control of the state government.

They have to meet uniform standards of weapons to meet interoperability standards with federal and other state guard units, but that's no different than a military meeting NATO obligations. There are guard units with the new OCP uniforms and IOTVs and guard units that still have OCP and IBAs because their state has different funding priorities.

Back before the current Constitution was written we had the Articles of Confederation. Caused huge problems (inability to collect taxes, raise a military in case injuns or Brits attacked us, etc) which led to the Constitution being written so we'd never have to deal with that shit again.

TL;DR you're wrong

>No reason? A single, standarized document that certifies your identity/nationality that can be used for stuff like financial transactions, claiming social benefits, voting, etc. is not something that is created "for no reason

We have that though, state DLs are recognized in all 50 states.

>What is a USA passport?

He's wrong on that last point, we haven't been a federation since 1787

What the fuck is the selective service

But states still have the power to form their own military units separate from the national guard, and a couple dozen states currently have them.

They are still federal though.

No, he's kind of right. Each state does have republican sovereignty where not prohibited by the Constitution. States have in the past issued their own currencies and used to determine their own immigration policies. They still obviously have differing points of view on what are to be considered permissible gun rights or self defense. What's normal in Alaska could get you a life sentence in California.

The NGB does not administer or command the Guard. They develop cohesive and uniform training standards for the Guard to meet its national obligations when lawfully federalized. Moreover, many states have non-Guard military units, usually called state defense forces and sometimes including naval militia.

>>they consider federal government keeping a database of its citizen (for no reason) is unconstitutional.
>No reason? A single, standarized document that certifies your identity/nationality that can be used for stuff like financial transactions, claiming social benefits, voting, etc. is not something that is created "for no reason"


Currently, the states are the ones doing most of that.
The problem really coming from the fact that there are states openly giving offical ID (equivalent of that to to citizen) to people who are illegals under the "no human is illegal" train of thought. And the Federal government under both GOPe and Demo are not address this problem at all.

Yes, when activated by the federal government.

>passport
This, it is de facto already. With just that all it allows one to get a new ID anywhere in the states if they can prove residency. It is about the most supreme of identification there is.

>The NGB does not administer or command the Guard.

The US army does.

Why would we need one national ID? Every state has an ID/DL. If people want a national ID they can get a passport.

“I do hereby acknowledge to have voluntarily enlisted this day of , 19, in the National Guard of the State of for a period of _ year(s) under the conditions prescribed by law, unless sooner discharged by proper authority.

“I, , do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States and of the State of against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to them; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the Governor of ____ and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to law and regulations. So help me God.”

>President of the United States

Oh and we have Social Security cards.

Is the draft you underage retard. They'll mail you your registration card.. when you turn 18 lmao

national ID? WTF is a passportport?

>President of the United States and the Governor of ____
President when activated for federal service, and Governor when otherwise.

Why are you arguing?

>Because it is so prevalent, the de facto official identification card for adults is the driver's license issued by each state, which must be carried at all times when operating a vehicle in most states,[citation needed] and in most states must be presented to law enforcement officers upon request while one is driving a motor vehicle. Driver licensing authorities in each state also issue a nearly-identical "non-driver identification card" to identify persons who are unable or do not want to drive, which is typically treated like a driver's license for all purposes, except for proving that a person has the right to drive

That sounds so overly complicated and retarded that it hurts. Was it that same train of thought that kept you guys using that imperial potato unit system?
>there are states openly giving offical ID (equivalent of that to to citizen) to people who are illegals
Then the document doesn't serve as a proper certificate of nationality. Here for instance you have your national ID for citizens ONLY and foreigners get something else.

>That sounds so overly complicated and retarded that it hurts

Then you must have severely diminished mental capacity to think that issuing DLs for people who want to drive and state IDs for people that want ID but don't want to drive is complicated.

because they aren't a state army. they are a reserve force of the united states army.

>carry a single driver's license
>so complicated it hurts

Wew

They're both, at the discretion of the state Governor. In practice, the Governor rarely denies a request from the federal government when they want to activate a unit.

This. Everybody has a social security number and that is good enough.

Having multiple things for something that could be done the exact same way but with just one is the definition of overly-complicated.
How do foreigners get their driver's licenses?

>that picture
>what is a british thermal unit

Fuck you just because you can't engineer in standard units. That's why our military is supreme. You faggots don't understand anything we do because our superior measurement system is beyond you.

>Everybody has a social security number
Yeah, from what i have read illegals also make full use of them.
They don't even have a picture, for fuck's sake.

>a drivers license
>multiple things

How stupid are you?

I really don't get the big deal.

You NEED an ID to be employed, get welfare, go to vote, open up a bank account.

The only difference between National ID and a State ID is that the federal government is involved.

Heck, virtually every American is issued an ID number by means of Social Security.

>two
>multiple
Pick one.

Also, they aren't for the same thing. One is a license to drive that can be (and is) the de facto identification, while the other is a card issued for the sole purpose of identification. Both are issued by the state of residence for people who request them.

Are you escaped from an asylum or something?

We have different laws and regulations for getting your license in each state, despite them all being mutually recognized as valid. We can't have a unified driver's license.

Foreigners can get a license by going to the BMV with the proper ID and taking the test like anyone else.

>rarely denies

name one instance.

Don't blame me if you can't read.

>Heck, virtually every American is issued an ID number by means of Social Security.
A SS# will also do all of those things you listed, so why have another redundant system at the federal level?

>Card issued at birth
>Doesn't even have a picture on it.

You don't say.

Overly complicated is commissioning a federal institution to issue IDs that all 50 fucking states do on their own.

You need two forms of ID to prove citizenship/legal status when you get a job here. That is usually drivers license + birth certificate/social security card. Also your passport will count as two forms, as it is considered a higher level of ID

>So, i was curious about what document amerilards used as means of identification, and i found they didn't have one.
When i look for the reason, i find this:

So let me stop you right there. At this point, are you trying to bait? Why do would you actually waste your time, waste the space on this board, and waster everyone elses time with this shit thread, when even if you're hellbent on shitposting, you could make atleast a more entertaining thread

But you know what, i'll just disregard all that, and assume for the sake of your intelligence, you were being literal. And in that case, you are correct.

We do NOT have one document used for identification purposes. We have multiple.

If i needed to be identified by the police or government, they could use my SSN, my driving license, my passport, my birth certificate, or my thumbprint if its in the data base.

We are opposed to having some national identity card. This is a free country.

Pic kinda related, checks and balances and shit.

Social security cards issued to people other than citizens and permanent residents are supposed to say so.

look in the mirror

>put picture on card issued at birth
>try to identify adults with it

Lad

ITT: Colombian drug trafficker frustrated that he has to forge multiple state IDs instead of one national one.

That's why I said "rarely denies." I am not aware of any such instance, but I wasn't going to say "never." However the executive of a state does have the power to deny activation of a guard unit under title 10.

most of us use our state driver's license

Since you're going to keep arguing this.
>The Army Reserve and Air Force Reserve are subordinated to the federal government while the National Guards are subordinated to the various state governments, except when called into federal service by the President of the United States or as provided for by law. For example, the California Army National Guard and California Air National Guard are subordinated to the state of California and report to the governor of California as their commander-in-chief.
>Besides the theoretical check on federal power, the distinction between the federal military reserves and the National Guard permits state governors to use their personnel to assist in disaster relief and to preserve law and order in times of crisis. The latter is permitted because the National Guard are not subject to the restrictions of the Posse Comitatus Act unless they are under federal jurisdiction. The restrictions, however, do apply to the four of the other five reserve components just as it does with their active duty military counterparts. The United States Coast Guard and Coast Guard Reserve are not subject to the restrictions of the Posse Comitatus Act because they are the only Armed Force of the United States that is not part of the United States Department of Defense.

That's irrelevant to my point. If it doesn't have a picture then it can't be used to properly identify people. If anything that just proves that card doesn't work.

Forgot source
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_components_of_the_United_States_Armed_Forces#State_military_forces_distinguished

Its called a passport

The simple fact of the matter is that we don't need a national id.

I can go to any state with my state id and it is accepted.

That is all we need.

>Or what, are you telling me your nationality is not american but "californian" or from whatever state you may be from?
In some ways, this is true, both legally in culturally... However...

Federal law forces states to recognize one another's state-sanctioned forms of identification, and those, in turn, must meet certain federal requirements to be considered valid ID for use in federal services...

...Thus there ain't nothing to fix.

...and then there's passports.

This.

/thread.

State ID is more effective at identifying people in our country than a national system. Federally issued/recognized passports from the post office or other agencies can be used as valid identification, too.

Just liberals bitching about shit. Every country in Europe just about has voter I.D. laws. You can get a government issued one for free here if you want but liberals claim it's hard for poor people to do that. Whatever, they don't seem to have a problem providing I.D. when buying booze from the liquor store.

Holy fuck, what mongoloid taught you 6th grade civics?

...

>What part of having a proper ID
What part of proper ID do you not understand eurodumb?

it might be true if you are a townie who never leaves their hometown. but it's 2016 bro people move all the time. There is no allegiance to city or state anymore.

Then how do illegals get away with it?

>it
>A singular unnamed thing out of a list of things

Kek, shitposter confirmed.
Also, illegals simply won't do many of those things, as quite a few are luxuries. Things like registering a car aren't even required to travel, but even that has loopholes

>eurodumb

we wuz graet