Why do you hate teachers and teacher unions?

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Unions are GOMMUNISM :--DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

Because teachers are already degreed professionals, they already hold enormous bargaining power on individual level. Giving them collective bargaining is overkill.

i have no problem with niggerball because I dont care
I have a problem with teachers unionizing because it actually matters.
taking the merit out of being a teacher ruins generations of children

a lot of teachers are fucking shit at their jobs. it's too secure a job; teachers should get fired if they're not good. I was lucky to have parents that cared about me

Teachers see it as their job to instil leftwing values in kids.
One of the reasons the West became cucked, I think, is likely that compulsory education basically put every single child into the hands of leftist teachers.

No sports fan likes the players unions. We like watching these guys play, we don't like watching them whine and go on strike for a few million extra shekels.

Teachers unions are one of the chief reasons inner city schools are such shit.

Only people who failed at everything else and overly idealistic morons become teachers at public schools.

Try working for administrations with 3 years teaching experience, a 12 credit administrator credential, a 100k pay check, who see teachers as the cause of all the problems in the school.

The unions are for a force to mitigate the huge powers of the school
Districts and administrations.

Without unions the teaching would be a revolving door job because the capriciousness of administrations, which change every year or every two year - 3 years for CEOs and Superintendents.

Culture and continuity build academic spaces that produce results, if you pull a Michelle Rhee and fire teachers without cause, you kill the culture.

teachers deserve death. They are jewish pawns used to brainwash children.

>Why do you hate teacher unions?

Because in Germany teachers are civil servants and in no case are civil servants allowed to unionize themselves. This means they are literally holding the tax payer hostage.

Because Teacher's Union are full of lazy, corrupt, and greedy fucks.

Case in point the Chicago Teachers Union. Any Chicago resident will back me up on how retarded they are.

A number of all people are only adequate at their jobs.

That's why there are credentials: these establish a minimum level of knowledge and experience.

Not every teacher will be the teacher that reaches you, everyone has a different experience. Your shit-tier teacher could be someone else's to-tier.

I agree that there are poor teachers, however, I believe that the student population is now less equipped to deal with anything less than optimum performance form a teacher to succeed, because the culture has shifted from "what do I need to succed?" To "what is everyone doing to help me succeed?"

Teachers' unions are poorly run and politically driven

In America, public school teachers are the absolute bottom of the barrel.

I know five girls from high school who became education majors. Four of them switched to that as their fallback option after they flunked out of their original career field.

That, and public sector unions are just a shitty idea in general. Giving the inmates keys to the asylum.

Teachers don't provide a particularly worthwhile service.

They are leftists who want to spread leftism.

Because people have known teachers pay is shit for the last few decades yet people keep signing up to be teachers in droves?

What's the point of paying them more when people will be teachers as a passion career?

If teachers want to be paid more they can go private and argue that they can give your child better results than the public system.

>I believe that the student population is now less equipped to deal with anything less than optimum performance form a teacher to succeed, because the culture has shifted from "what do I need to succed?" To "what is everyone doing to help me succeed?"

I'll give you that much. We have standardized test performance as goal posts for teachers here in texas, but there's no real penalty if teachers can't get their kids to perform. they just get reassigned. letting these people unionize would make education even worse, imo. Again, I'm lucky my parents cared about me and paid a lot of attention to me because if they didn't and I relied only on the public school education I got I wouldn't be where I am right now

this. public sector is an excuse for people to be lazy

They are not held in check by the market. They rape the taxpayer, and largely give poor educations.

Not sure if I was a rare case, but they openly praised Marxism and said that real socialism hasn't been done. Then the teacher galvanized discussion and had us all prove her "in our own words" why she was right.
>TFW typical public school education.

Delete this!

The Gates Foundation and Pearson developed most of the Common Core and the PARCC test.

Us taxpayers paid 186 million for that company to develop the test.

The biggest scam is "Race to the Top." School districts sold out local control for a pennies. For example Maryland received 4 million in grants over three years for RTT, that is 0.33% of the Baltimore City Schools budget.

I support football player unions because they're at far higher-risk of injury and their careers are seriously short (avg. 3.5 years, iirc); as well, their contracts come from market considerations.

Teacher's unions basically pay teachers just to be there without considering any market factors -- like performance.

Also, they tend to be female and feminists that are ruining the education system.

Teaching today exists primarily to keep tens of thousands of young women off the streets.

The free market says teachers have the right to collective bargaining.

>In America, public school teachers are the absolute bottom of the barrel.
As they should be. Most teachers are unqualified and are teaching kids their ignorant view on most subjects anyway.

Public unions funded by taxpayers should be abolished
Private unions can do whatever they want. It's not my money.

Teachers are literal leeches, doing the least amount of work they need to in order to collect their pension

t. dad's a public school teacher

because teachers are fucking useless assholes

they just read shit out of books and show videos, make a few quizzes from books

why would I support hand egg niggers?

>failing on every measurable level
>muh culture

public vs private sector
I don't give a fuck if the sports unions jerk themselves off and go on strike, all that happens is that I don't get my entertainment and the people profiting off their work take a big loss in revenue. Their actions directly effect the people they're arguing with (and the employees who work for those people), but only annoy the general public. Their argument is usually
>we bring in all the money, you should take a smaller cut and use the massive profits to protect those of us who get injured in the course of bringing in all the money

When public sector unions throw their weight around, lower/middle/upper-middle class students and their families get fucked over. The money has already been taken from the public (who are at that point no longer receiving the service they "paid" for), who has no direct say in the debate. Their argument is usually
>We work for you in an industry that directly generates 0 dollars and is funded by the tax payers. You shouldn't be able to fire us or judge us in any way, making us responsible for our actions is unreasonable

Fuck public sector unions

what you call a scam is just the free market in action, socialist libtard

public sector =/= free market

There is absolutely no argument that makes any sense.

Regardless of the operation; if the operation fails, it is management's fault.

They are the ones organizing the effort, and they are the ones dividing up the rewards.

Blaming teachers, or unions, or workers in any field for any reason is simply the managers passing the blame for their incompetence.

If I owned a company or ran a government and my workers felt they needed a Union, the first thing I would do would be to fire the managers.

I mean, they are the ones who hired the workers in the first place; they are the ones who tell them what to do; they are the ones who measure the success; they are the ones who pay the employees.

Attacking labor only means you are the elite's shill...

Any discussion about a free market is laughable when you're talking about our education system, may as well quibble about hygiene in India.

This about sums it up.
Teachers suck. I've cover more in self learning in 1/3 of the time.
>you get taxpayer stolen money for adopting common core
>free market
Just because administration is even more worthless doesn't mean the teachers are good.

All teachers have to have at least a degree and a credential.

If you believe that what you state is true, pleas advocate to raise the bar for credentials. I would recommend looking at Mass. , PA, and MD's credentialling.

It's literally a profession regulated by the state: in the US you are the state. If you are in a red state, I bet you could get a representative to write a bill to increase the rigors of the credentials.

>teach kids absolute bullshit that's either outdated, partially factual or not usable in practical situations at all through the most boring and awful method
>wonder why nobody likes it or wants to support it

All monies paid into Unions are private monies.

Even if they are a public employee, the dues are moved from the private individual to the Union

Tha gov't has no place paying for a union.

Niggerball and handegg players aren't actively subverting entire generations with filthy jewish lies.

if management is legally unable to take action due to the efforts of their laborer's union, how can they be blamed for the laborer's failures? When you model your operation on an existing and well proven organizational structure and then neuter the top of the hierarchy, you're fundamentally altering the way in which the organization functions. If a tiered management system is consistently garbage in a particular sector (where it's power dynamic has been fundamentally altered), is it the fault of those in it or the fact that you've altered the way a standard tiered hierarchy performs?

Because the whole federalized education system fucking blows. They consistently ask for more and more money but keep coming up short in terms of results.

We need to just break the fucking teachers' unions, get rid of the department of education on a federal level and open the education system to more privatized groups.

I spend a lot of time having to reteach my two kids on stuff their (((teachers))) tell them in class, unless it's concrete stuff like math. Fuck, even in that they have their own agenda bullshit.

It's worthless.

>>wonder why nobody likes it or wants to support it
The media sucks teacher cock, but I don't think a lot of society feels the same way.
Government employees have no business collective bargaining, they can take what they're worth or get a real job on the private market.

>Just because administration is even more worthless doesn't mean the teachers are good.


"If meat is bad for you then why is it food!" -Beevus

You obviously can't think. That is called arguing the effect and shows a Socratic thought process.

The narrative is a recursion - the output feed the input.
Are teachers bad because of a failing in their ability, or because management has not removed or allowed them to remove their constraints. Or is management the constraint?

The turnover for teachers in the first 5 years is almost 70% in the US. The turn over for career administration is less than 20%.

That tells me that the problem is in the bureaucracy, not the teaching.

But that makes a beggar of my own question, because it is always the manager's job to make the system work. If the system is not working, the only reason is management.

There are no bad teachers, only bad managers.


"No one comes to work wanting to do a bad job" - W. Edwards Demming

186 million in government grants to develop a product that States that signed up to Race to the Top are forced to use at a premium (usually$10-22 dollars more expensive to grade), is the free market?

That sounds like Facism: the merging of State and corporate interests.

I wish the government would give me nearly 200 million to develop a product that millions of students would be forced to use and tens of States would be forced to buy.

You should read Capital and look up corporatism/fascism.

What a documentary called "The Cartel" and see that hate towards teacher unions is well placed

I saw that on Netflix a while back. Made my blood boil.

>Almost finished with my uni degree to be a teacher
>Aiming for a master's in administration next
Did I pick the wrong field?

This is a CtR shill thread but I will bite.

Teachers unions are unbelievably corrupt, thuggish and completely unresponsive to their members wants and needs. Why would I support an organization I'm not a member of that doesn't even have 50% of its membership onboard with what they are doing?

>Why do you hate teachers and teacher unions?

because the unions use their cash to influence politics, not improve their members' lives

no, it's a secure job that's impossible to get fired from. be the change you want to see in the world etc etc

>There are no bad teachers, only bad managers.
Did you even attend public education. There are plenty of shit teachers that aare allowed to be so becasue their managers can't fucking fire them without a ream of paperwork.
>"No one comes to work wanting to do a bad job" - W. Edwards Demming
They do if there is zero repercussions for doing a shit job while getting the same pay.

As a citizen, I have the right to associate with whom I wish.

This includes with a union.

As a citizen, I have the right to free speech. Citizen United has shown that money is speech, if I want to say yesto paying for union, then I can.

My big question is this:

If there is a huge shortage of teachers, why hasn't the pay skyrocketed?

This year Baltimore City is at a 400 teacher deficit.

if you cared that much about your children send them to a private school. problem solved

there is no shortage of teachers in most places, only at nigger schools where teachers dont want to feel like theyre wasting their time.

No, go for it. If you like it then be the best at it despite the shit you're swimming in.

You can also subtlety red pill students like a couple of my teachers did.

>their managers can't fucking fire them without a ream of paperwork.

tell me, how can a teacher get fired without doing something overtly criminal? there's really no way

this. if they're smart enough they can get a scholarship/financial assistance

I think just Baltimore is fine. you don't say "Boston City" or "Chicago City"

I only had Two great teachers, one was a conservative history teacher that actually explained the bias in our history books and the other had been teaching for 40 years, he was even my mother's teacher

That's the point I was making. Shit teachers can't go because the system protects them no matter how crap they are.

it's terrible 2bh. it sucks because if you don't have good parents you're SOL. teachers are kind of supposed to be a safety net in that regard

Stupid! You think the only action management can make is to remove the worker who complains or doesn't perform, when it is the managers responsibility to remove the constraints to the employees performance.

You have really drank the Kool-Aid of you slave master haven't you?

1. You have confused leadership for management: Leadership is for things you do one time or for the first time. It bribes, cajoles, threatens, removes, inspires, motivates, and praises to get someone to magically do what the leader says because neither the leader nor the follower know what to do.

Management is used for things you do over and over again. There is a goal; there is an action and a result that every one can see, over and over again. It uses the Operational Model to define, divide, order, supply, and make efficient the process by removing the constraints identified by labor, customer, and math.

2. You have confused the social structure of hierarchy with the physical structure of organizing collective action.

I can work as hard as I can. You can work as hard as you can. The sum of our individual work is less than our collective work. But that takes organization.

BUT ALSO there is a zero sum game of dividing up the spoils of that work. When management confuses the Pyramid scheme of hierarchy to exploit the workers in the dividing up the spoils with the organization of the physical, then those who are exploited, who do all the work get mad.

It goes on...
The management of the school district is a pyramid scheme of incompetence and blaming the teachers is just stupid.
You actually don't know anything about management whatsoever.

This was in Texas Though

>"No one comes to work wanting to do a bad job" - W. Edwards Demming
Yeah, somebody sort of famous said something that means it's right. Quotes are meaningless, literally appeal to authority.
Your comment is so try hard, just say what you mean, you're arguing, not trying to showoff for some pretentious peers.

Plenty of people go to work planning to not do a great job. Because they can, because most people don't like to work.
I've had plenty of teachers that just didn't care, because they didn't need to, and I went to a well regarded school.

Of course bureaucracy is a problem, that doesn't mean teachers are good, which you seem to assume without any reason.

Because they're lazy slobs. Who the fuck wants to be a teacher anyway lmao all you do all day is getting cucked by some spoiled shithead who will literally kill you if you attempt to discipline him

>Baltimore
I wonder why. I assume teachers realize that the niggers don't want to learn because "that's a white persons thing" or some variant.

>a lot of teachers are fucking shit at their jobs

Why?

I agree, but I really don't understand what causes this. I can't think of any other profession with the average performer being so bad at what they do.

Why are most teachers so shit at their job?

Same with HR.

>Comparing the GOATs to shit tier, lazy ass teachers

Because most of them are shit

All my teachers through my life where ex commie radicals.

litterally had one goodish teacher in buisness management.

theres one teacher critical against islam down south and hes famous now because the media ruined him along with antifa faggots.

Breivik was a hero, i write this with no shame.

Teachers have zero freedom anymore. I work with a guy that used to teach back post-Vietnam war up until the early 2000's and I asked him if he had freedom to teach and put together a lesson plan. Said he used to, but he was limited every decade since he started.

Also used to beat the shit out of kids to keep them in line. Tells stories of walking into class and just beating 2 or 3 kids so nobody would act up. Most based Boomer I've ever met.

Bureaucracy is THE problem. It cots even more and gives you even less than shitty teachers.

But this thread is about the union specifically.

>BUT ALSO there is a zero sum game of dividing up the spoils of that work.
There are no spoils because there's nothing tangible. They get government money to do this, it's not freely given for a service.
And they get paid, pretty well when all is considered. It might be a shit job in a lot of cases, but so are most other jobs.
>will literally kill you if you attempt to discipline him
>Mexican schools

because there's no incentive to be good at it. I'm sure a lot of people go in with lofty ideals and just get jaded later by having to teach dumbass kids.

some school districts set benchmarks for performance but there really is no PENALTY for subpar performance. just reassignment. it somehow became taboo (or was it always taboo?) to fire teachers

>This thread again

It's hyperbolic lmao.

My mom used to tell me stories about how different teachers were back then. Said one of her friends was slammed against the board for talking in class.

Look at the Detroit Public School System and look how much power the teacher's union has and how big their building is in Detroit

I agree 100%.
Big business unions are totally out of touch with their
Membership. Stupid AFT declare Hillary our gal in August of 2015! Cheese balls.

I feel like Unions are the worst way to be an employee, except for every other way to be an employee.

The Union hall is a joke and not member positive. Look at the Electricians and Carpenters Unions in Philly: huge beautiful Union halls and members "volunteering" when they have no work.

They just were raided by the FBI.

However, the administrators are so bad: no pedagogical backbone, reactionary, inept at enforcing rules and unable to assist new teachers. This leads to schools without vision and direction; schools that patch rather than remodel; school without rule of law; schools that place new hires into a space without a real on the job training and support.

They can't do this because the admins are not leaders - they are administrators.

Since, I have been a teacher two admins Inworked under were removed due to ineptitude, however, like Agent Smith: another just rises in its place.

They are not rewarded for their successes, nor are we.

Yep, teachers were God more or less. Better than the shit we have today. He did get in trouble once for failing too many students. Next semester he basically bumped everybody but a few to a D just to appease the Principal & Board..

Good teachers dislike teachers' unions because it forces them to have to work together with trash that cannot be fired.

But I don't I am a national sindicalist

>study mathematics
>be great tutor for classes 10-13
>everyone tells me I should become a teacher
>everyone I study with thinks the same thing
Fuck no. They pay is shit and the environment worse. Most teachers are bad at their jobs because the good ones dont go into teaching if they have another option.

>GOAT
Stop using nigger terms

The NFL Union is pretty shit too. They make kickers who in the league for a long time get replaced due to their required salary increases. They can't refuse the increase either, they just get replaced by someone new since they can be bought at a lower price.

I hate teacher unions because

> teachers do not work in a dangerous environment (like a coal mine or factory) where collective bargaining is necessary to ensure personal safety

> teachers are not paid an exploitive wage for their work

> teachers unions have historically focused on protecting the jobs of even poorly performing teachers as they get older

> teachers unions are anti-testing and the implementation of modern educational theories

> I've personally known too many lazy fucking college students who were becoming teachers so they could have an easy secure career with summers off

pro-sports:
>communist draft-system
>unionized
>regular lockouts
>salary-caps
>quintessentially American

TOP
KEK

Dude, if you're a teacher I feel bad for your students having to read garbled mess like you just posted.

Jesus.

The quarterbacks are 100s of millions of dollars more important and we actually care and support our local football teams.

Same deal in the usa, unless they teach at a private school.

Also, got a sibling that is a teacher, and had laid on us the skinny that the entire teachers unions are a pure scam to everyone, but them, and game the system so hard, they may as well be jews

kek Im the same as you. I am a full time tutor and people say the same shit to me I tutor all the calc's, Physics, Chem, and SAT Verbal/Writing

I passed the high school teaching math and science on my first try and I've been getting FLOODS of emails of people asking me to interview for a position without me even applying.

Your right. The credentials are so easy to get but no way in hell would I ever teach. Couldn't imagine going from what I'm doing to teaching fucking Algebra or Geometry year after year. It would be boring as shit. And then you have a shitty environment where, as a math or science teacher, over half the class hates you. No thanks.

I hate unions in general

Experience bias. Every nigger has had a number of teachers, and experienced a lot of school. No matter what else you do in live you probably get less introspection than during school life. If I would ask you about the average accountant's work habits and attitude towards their job you would probably lack experience to give an answer on similar observations.

Except almost all teachers are government entities. If they taught at a private school, that's different.

When dealing with the schools, one has to use Balitmore City because of the county that surrounds the City is called Baltimore. These two enities are mutually exclusive however are easily conflated because of their names.

Baltimore City Public School System
Versus
Baltimore County Publics Schools

When referring to schools is Balitmore, I use Balitmore City for clarity.

The inability to delineate the difference allows people to misrepresent current events like the Gaines shooting in Balitmore County's Randallstown

I honestly wouldnt even mind half the class hating me. They're probably retarded anyway and not worth my time.
My issue is that if I fail them I'd be viewed as a bad teacher, when the problem wasn't my teaching but them not learning. So I need to give a lot of my students good grades otherwise people would ask questions.
Which means I'd start teaching for exams and not actual mathematics.
And when PISA comes around I'd make tons of exercises to prepare them for PISA instead of teaching them how to think logically and create solutions for problems.

Unless you are forced into that union in order to teach in a given state. Why else did the public sector teacher's union try their damndest to get Gov. Walker fucked?

really makes you think

Because if the football players suck they get canned, especially if they're been there awhile.

You know, the opposite of public sector unions.

My wife isn't gonna be a teacher and my kids ain't going to school.

Care to argue against the points?

>they already hold enormous bargaining power on individual level

lol no

They don't need a union, they are public employees. You know how you collectively bargain as a public employee? You vote.