We gave the free market plenty of time to bring costs down in healthcare and it failed utterly and miserably...

We gave the free market plenty of time to bring costs down in healthcare and it failed utterly and miserably. Why not at least give socialized medicine a fair chance?

Other urls found in this thread:

decisiondata.org/news/how-much-single-payer-uhc-would-cost-usa/
amazon.com/MD-Emperor-Has-No-Clothes/dp/0557695821
quora.com/What-countries-have-lead-the-world-in-medical-research-and-innovation-in-the-past-20-years
cdc.gov/niosh/idlh/7553562.html
dailycaller.com/2016/08/08/budget-crunched-va-has-167-interior-designers-on-staff/
foxnews.com/politics/2016/07/27/va-spent-20m-on-art-as-ailing-veterans-languished-report-finds.html
abcnews.go.com/US/report-va-spent-millions-costly-art-veterans-waited/story?id=40970667
breitbart.com/big-government/2016/08/03/house-chairman-will-issue-subpoenas-va-waste-curruption/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-payer_healthcare#United_States_of_America
washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/15/veterans-groups-push-for-more-va-funding/
freebeacon.com/issues/va-drops-millions-delayed-solar-power-projects/
washingtontimes.com/news/2016/aug/9/watchdog-says-va-has-wasted-millions-solar-energy-/
washingtontimes.com/news/2015/sep/3/golden-hammer-vas-record-of-waste-fraud-abuse-keep/
washingtonpost.com/news/federal-eye/wp/2015/10/30/more-than-2500-va-employees-were-on-paid-leave-last-year-the-va-hasnt-tracked-why/
twitter.com/AnonBabble

yeah you burgers should really try it, shit is dope yo.

>hurr durr its socialism!!!

No its not you fucking retard its making sure that your country is healthy so that it can continue to make more money and increase production. Its literally a cornerstone of capitalism, having healthy workers.

USA does not have a free healthcare market.

The health of the country can be better achieved through private incentive than government programs which require massive amounts of taxes and are typically inefficient and wasteful.

that's completely false, bud here we have a public healthcare system that is excellent. I had a simple issue, my gall bladder had stones, how much would that have cost me, a student living independently from home? What since I cant afford it should I just let my stones get infected and then fucking die because my countrymen are selfish cunts? No, instead I got it removed for free and am happy to pay my taxes to help some other poor bastard with gallstones out. Wasteful my arse.

Free market
>cost plus profit

Gov
>cost plus corruption

Take your pick.
>note: corruption has a 60% chance of being more than profit margin

>free

This is a nonexistent concept.

>I had a simple issue, my gall bladder had stones, how much would that have cost me, a student living independently from home?

It would have cost you very little because of competition between various healthcare providers, or nothing out-of-pocket because of pre-existing health insurance. Rather, you're more likely to pay more in taxes over time even when you're not sick than the small fees when you are.

The last time the U.S had any type of free market health care was before FDR.

Its not "free" someone some where is paying for it, basic economics 101. When you tell people they now have free health care it will create an unlimited demand for a finite product/service. Which will lead to costs to go up and quality to go down. Expect to hurry up an wait months for basic health care and go through an endless inefficient bureaucracy for health care. U.S .gov run health care fucking sucks, look at the VA,MEPS etc. utter shit.

its not just about the money friendo, its about looking after everyone so we can increase productivity and ensuring that our country has strong healthy citizens. I'm sorry its hard to grasp, but I cant help if your country is filled with selfish, self absorbed salty anuses. Feels good being able to go to the doctor whenever I'm fucked up without having to be charged out the ass for a simple prescription.

Actually no, we didn't. We have not had a free market in decades and costs have been steadily rising.

You haven't demonstrated that the State is better able to look after the health of millions of private citizens all at once better than the private citizens themselves.

Consider the example of Soviet citizenry who died by the legion in the 1920s simply because state run enterprises are inefficient.

What free market?

Your health care system has more regulations than ours.

Before our socialized medicine our health care costs used to be quite low, which didn't please doctors, unions and corporate lobbyists. Get your shit together cunts.

Everybody else gets free healthcare because our for profit system leads to improvements and innovation in medicine you don't see coming out of socialist hell holes

Bruh, why don't you visit Australia sometime and see all the evidence you need. Our healthcare is excellent, all hospitals are equipped with absolutely all the latest shit needed, the nurses are 5 star, the doctors are 5 star, the treatment is 5 star. last time I was in hospital I had food, drink and medicine on tap whenever I needed it. Just got back 3 weeks ago from America and saw how your hospitals worked and it was truly a fucked experience. Please get your shit together.

Because Republicans tell me we need to cut taxes on job creators and the wealth will trickle down and I believe them

American healthcare is more regulated than Australian healthcare, which is the primary contributing factor to why American healthcare is poor.

> Our healthcare is excellent, all hospitals are equipped with absolutely all the latest shit needed, the nurses are 5 star, the doctors are 5 star, the treatment is 5 star.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, oh shit that's gold mate, 8/8.

its true, if you don't live in a shithole. Maybe you live in Dapto or Nambour or some other shit crust.

Don't tell that to the retarded aussie in this thread

Do you have private health insurance?

Awww that's cute. An American trying to pretend they understand economics. You do realise for a healthy economic system to exist you need a governing entity to provide social services to increase social wellbeing, creating a healthy, happy labourforce. but no, you wouldn't know that cause you haven't spent even a second studying any actual economics.

when I was at home living with my parents I did. I have since moved out and no I don't. I will admit Private is exponentially better in Australia in fact I do miss it, however our free healthcare is bretty gud bruh

because we have too many people sucking off the system for free that dont even belong here for it to work. If you go have dinner with 10 of your friends and everyone throws in $20 it can even out, but if 4 of those friends cant pay at all, 2 can only pay $5, and 5 extra people ordered food on your tab and ran off without paying that sure puts a huge expense on those people that can pay in reasonably.

Australia you're forgetting something about the United States

you're expecting the white man to support a system that will not only have to service them, but also:
37 million dindu nuffins who don't pay nearly as many taxes as they need to to even break even on cost of services
14 million asians who are beginning to show allegiance to china and using the US only as a birthplace to claim gibs me dat citizenship just for being born here while planning the trip during pregnancy
2 million firewater drinking injuns roaming around their tribal land and casinos
50 million (add in another 10 million illegal ones for a grand total of 60 million) mexicans who will go to the hospital at the slightest panic after their witch doctor mexican medicine didn't work
It simply does not make financial sense to provide goods and services to a huge population that will never pay, through sales or taxes, for the labor and products given.

I second this. If my calculations are correct:

UK population: 65m
Annual cost of UK NHS: £117bn
so
USA population: 320m
Projected annual cost of USA NHS: $752bn (£576bn)

$752bn a year. That is a lot, but (according to Forbes) the USA currently spends $3.8 TRILLION on healthcare. If the USA's NHS were one third as efficient as the UK's, the American public would still, according to those numbers, be saving $1.5 trillion a year on healthcare.

Obviously this is oversimplified bullshit, I have no real idea wtf I'm on about and probably even botched those simple calculations. I disregarded the private health sector completely. But here's a source that also says the USA would benefit:

decisiondata.org/news/how-much-single-payer-uhc-would-cost-usa/

For those of you worried about a drop in standards, you can keep your private healthcare options open too. Britain does. And I've had multiple dealings with the NHS and found it fantastic.

In Britain, even to hint at doing away with the NHS is political suicide bordering on blasphemy. There'd be a revolution.

The main problems I see with it are: Increased strain on doctors and nurses as demand skyrockets, unemployment due to the dissolution of the health insurance industry and other effects, and the removal of the incentive to look after one's health. Fit people effectively pay for the healthcare of sick people, and sometimes that sickness is self-inflicted.

Because they would need to first, fix your fucking food system. Second, they would need to fix your fucking Pharma monster system. Otherwise publicly funded healthcare will be SO FUCKING BRUTALLY EXPENSIVE, that it will never be feasible.

The Canadian system is in real trouble because we have followed in your guy's dietary norms. Which kicks our costs through the fucking roof.

You cannot fix the first two things without a significant change.

Yeah but it's not.

Anyone with any sort of career success at all and a family has to have Private Health + Income Protection to stand a chance if anything serious happens.

The system is great for people without jobs being rushed to hospital, but anyone who actually pays taxes is left high and dry unless they want to go on a huge waiting list for anything that isn't life threatening and then, you've got to pay out of pocket for specialists, treatments and care. It's one thing if you break your leg or you're in a car accident but anything else and good fucking luck.

Then there's the huge hidden costs on the back end, GPs charging $70-100 per visit to tax payers + extra for writing prescriptions + extra for referring to specialists and this type of shit exists at every level of healthcare from GP's to hospitals, pharmaceutical industry and government agencies.

I'm having trouble thinking of any market sectors that were more regulated than healthcare...

>Australia you're forgetting something about the United States
That the US government is controlled by corporate lobbyists and it's not in their financial interest to nationalise health.

I wonder how much they spend on convincing the US public that universal healthcare would destroy America and kill their babies.

This. I'm not against a Scandinavian Christian Socialist system, if implemented as in Scandinavia in the past, meanjng all whites who almost all pay their dues. I cannot support paying tribute to Diptheria's three litters of niglets.

>Rod of Caduceus instead of Asclepius
Every time

>free healthcare LOL
pay twice as much for government bureocracy...
get even shitier care than you do now.

>you must LOVE the DMV

The US hasn't had a free market healthcare system for decades. The US dropped so much in subsidies and we always saw a positive correlation with the increase in the cost

Are you retarded enough to think that they make more privately? They aren't spending a dime to revert government power, they're spending that money lobbying to get a larger cut of the taxes without having to do the work.

Fuck off you dumb bogan spastic

You're making a false equivalence here, America is a diverse country with over 300 million people of which 40 million are niggers.

Try conceptualizing how the fuck you would be make affordable public health care in American possible

We don't have free market health insurance you fucking morons. Companies are limited to their state. So if I, living in Michigan, find out that Ohio has a company that offers better insurance I can't buy it. If they let the states compete and then got rid of government shit in the industry it'd be cheap as hell

America spends a higher percentage of GDP on government health spending than we do.

>An American trying to pretend they understand economics
>Who is Thomes Sowell
>Who is William f Buckley
>Who is Ron Paul
Stick to fucking kangaroos you good for nothing fuck

Youre retarded as fuck bro, how about you go to university and study economics and find out how all this shit works before you go around calling people "bogan" and "spastic". you literally sound like a fucking bogan I saw at the train station today calling a conductor a "down syndrome mong" for not letting him through the gates for free.

you truly are a fucking idiot. I wasn't saying some Americans don't understand economics, I was saying most of you plebs don't. fucking peasants I swear

>its not a true free market!!!11

every time

You're the one advocating for the state controlling a trillion dollars industry

I do go to university you puffed up poof.

You result to ad hom because you don't have an argument.

Thanks for the free
>yous

I'm not advocating the state having complete control you fucking retard. in Australia its a mixed system, you have excellent public healthcare by public standards, but you can buy private if you so wish. Fucking Americlaps I swear. Just like every industry, theres a mix. Now go read a book you pleb

Because jews need to jew sick people.
How do you expect the poor jews to be trillionaires with taxes only?

You called me a bogan spastic, but youre saying I'm using ad hom? fuck me mate your reading comp is terrible. Maybe university isn't the place for you.

> The ABC told me that they're dying in the streets!

Shut up, you papist swine.

I want to die penniless becuase of a toothache and if you don't respect that you can go back to Canada.

USA

Youre literally an ungrateful fuck. I'm not saying their dying in the streets, but I think that someone dying because they couldn't afford proper healthcare is fucking stupid. total waste of human capital.

we've got the best of all worlds with obamacare, cost plus corruption plus profit and tax laws that'll punish you if you don't want to play the game.

>Free market
>Healthcare
Memeing is not attractive

What's more a waste of monetary capital:

> pay for 10 bludgers health care
> pay for the 1/10 worker who doesn't have private health + bureaucracy

or

> Bludgers get jobs
> Pay for the 1/10 worker + 1/10 previous bludger who don't have private health or any alternative means of care.

Less are dying than here. We have higher rates of death due to poorer care and rationing.

Economic scarcity is a reality, papist swine.

The reason it's not cheaper is because it's the best in the world.

The best doctors.

The best medicine.

The best medical equipment.

United States Healthcare is so top notch, nobody can afford it!

>>
amazon.com/MD-Emperor-Has-No-Clothes/dp/0557695821

>free market
>government mandate for private insurance

kek no

>papist swine
You sound like a fedora.

anyway, fedora aside, where is the evidence that rationing and care is poor? ive experienced different. you must live in the fucking desert or something bro. Should never have gave farmers the internet.

I'm certain that you're doing an rcom degree because only someone as dumb as you would be proud of that.

Only someone as stupid as you would be unable to differentiate between insulting and ad hom

Here is a little protip for useless idiots like you, your piece of paper that you are getting from your degree is useless. You can study all the coursework in yoir own time and get the benefits
>for free

USA leads the way in healthcare research and inventions.

quora.com/What-countries-have-lead-the-world-in-medical-research-and-innovation-in-the-past-20-years

The world wouldn't even have what we know as healthcare if it wasn't for the USA.

I said 'human capital" not monetary capital.

Human capital implies the person is worth something, they may be a poor factory worker, they cant afford healthcare, they die, factory loses a worker, country loses production equating to a net loss to society.

The rationing is in the image I showed. Americans have shorter waiting lines, more doctors per capita, more technology per capita, and higher rates of survival for breast and prostate cancer.

Yeah I know that's why I prefaced it with "monetary", or do you think monetary capital can't be wasted?

With human capital, the question is if an alternative to socialized medicine could provide more efficient, cost effective health care.

That research is 10+ years old, its really not a good source relative to todays time. if you really had any proof of the clear bullshit your saying it would be recent research.

Ok, fair enough.

although the amount wasted on healthcare is absolutely nothing compared to other wasteful spending in the US budget not to mention spending that doesn't even need to be spent. Saying that having free medicare is wasteful spending is null, because across any countries budget there is a LOT of wasteful spending that isn't on government services.

So, you admit that it was true in that period? I.e., the period where American healthcare was even freerer than it is today? Like, the pre-Obama care era?

Alternatively, you have zero research for your claims that the situation is today different.

Australia also produces nothing of note regarding research and development of health care technology and products. If USA adopted our system, global research and development would dry up.

to the guy saying there is fluoride in iodine and they are the same thing

cdc.gov/niosh/idlh/7553562.html

there is a fallacy with what youre saying. look at your "evidence" some of those graphs are from 1989 19-80 fucking 9 you've got to be kidding me if you think that's evidence of your drivel. Also Obama care is null, its a system literally designed for profit, corporate cronying if I ever saw it.

You're right there is a lot of waste above and beyond the essentials, however health care in the west could be vastly improved, there are people suffering, there is wasteful spending on the back end and the incentives of the industry are pretty backward and cartel like.

I really like the alternative though of using a Superannuation like system for health care similar to uh Hong Kong or Singapore does, our Super system has the potential to be one of the best avenues for people paying for their own services while encouraging a culture of investment rather than consumerism.

I think a free market system would lend itself well to trying similar alternatives.

No, the oldest graph is from 1999, get new eyes, papist.

More research and inventions, too.

ok, the point still stands, its old as fuck research therefore its null as fuck. Until new recent evidence is presented what youre saying is trash.

Also whats with the papist thing bro? I have no religion.

> ok, the point still stands, its old as fuck research therefore its null as fuck

No, that point doesn't stand. The research is not null. The point was true at that time the data was collected - since then, greater socialization of the American health care system has occurred.

This should make American healthcare even better by your logic.

More research and inventions, too. On up to date data.

You are totally missing the point I am trying to make. Australian public healthcare is good. why don't americans try to emulate it, the way Americans have socialized their healthcare is fucking retarded when you have a look at it, not just that, but wasteful. Have you ever been to America? I have, ive seen their "public" healthcare and it sucks. You are also implying so much shit its unbelievable I'm trying to figure out if youre serious or just shitposting. probably the latter

> why don't americans try to emulate it

And I've answered why - citing data on quality, research and inventions.

ok youre definitely shitposting, or your reading comp is grade 6 level. Look into how American healthcare was socialized and you will see clearly why it isn't working. Anyways I'm done with you pleb, youre clearly a troll.

>Look into how American healthcare was socialized and you will see clearly why it isn't working

1) It was working better than ours prior to this socializing.

2) What evidence do you have that it is working worse than ours now even with their Obamacare? It is still producing more research and inventions than ours. We wouldn't have healthcare technology without the USA.

3) If Obamacare is bad, why not simply repeal it, as opposed to replacing it with some other form of socialized healthcare?

And I know what the problems in healthcare are - the most prominent being the restricted supply of services via the licensing agencies.

Poor people aren't "entitled" to be healthy. If they're too retarded to set aside some money for healthcare instead of burning it all on booze, weed, and the latest iPhone, it's they're own fault.

Must be why I hardly ever see niggers in Oz. They'd fuck our health care.

>We gave the free market plenty of time to bring costs down in healthcare

Free market has nothing to do with it, idiot. Government meddling does.

The price is high because the regulations and licensing requirements for providers of health care services artificially restrict supply.

The market wants there to be far more doctors and health care services, but supply is restricted by laws. The number of doctors is not growing, while the population size continues to grow.

And the issue is not related to a lack of intelligent people or something, as other occupations, like physicists, continue to see their numbers increase with population growth. Something is seriously restricting the number of doctors in the United States, and the entire western world, basically.

It's fundamental supply and demand - demand is rising, but supply is not allowed to follow due to restrictions, and socialists refuse to ease up on these restrictions under the guise that they are needed for quality control (though really are enforced by the physicians themselves in order to protect themselves from competition - less doctors means more money for those doctors currently practicing.).

Good point.

Perhaps its because the the huge barriers to entry to get into med school/practicing medicine. Like you say, its not the lack of smart people, those people just look at medicine route and say fuck that.

This.

Also, the US had very affordable doctors before some lobbied to get the government involved in the business so that they could make more money. Now it's a clusterfuck, but, because of the still relatively free market, innovations in medical treatment have continued to be dominated by the US.

This, too.

what your average cancer treatment wait time??

but what about those that were born into poverty? there's a lot of people suffering because of circumstances, not lack of will

it makes it even worse if they get ill, they can't afford it

school costs a fortune for you as well so they can't get an education

think it's easy for them to get a job?

what i dont think a lot of people who live outside of the us is that there is a lot of programs that help the poor, not just government but, private organizations do alot of charity work. not only that hospitals work with you if you dont have much money doctors willing do charity work, local fundraisers pay for treatment, america is not dependent on the government to take care of them, the communities in the states get taken care of by each other.

Then they should get a job?

already have socialized medicine..it's called the VA.
dailycaller.com/2016/08/08/budget-crunched-va-has-167-interior-designers-on-staff/
‘Budget-Crunched’ VA Has 167 Interior Designers On Staff, picking window blind colors and buying millions of dollars of art each year, an investigation has found. At $100,000 in combined salaries and benefits the cost of employing those 167 designers would add up to $17 million a year, or $136 million during the eight years of the Obama administration
It’s unclear what could possibly keep them busy full-time, considering the bulk of the work would come during major renovations or construction of a new wing. The 167 designers are spread among the VA’s 75 hospitals
VA has spent $16 million on art during the Obama administration.
At least a dozen individual pieces of art cost a quarter million dollars or more each.
Nearly $700,000 was spent on two sculptures at a hospital for blind veterans

foxnews.com/politics/2016/07/27/va-spent-20m-on-art-as-ailing-veterans-languished-report-finds.html
The Veterans Affairs administration spent $20 million on expensive artwork and sculptures amidst the healthcare scandal, where thousands of veterans died waiting to see doctors.
an oversight report on spending at the VA, finding numerous frivolous expenditures on artwork, including six-figure dollar sculptures at facilities for the blind.
The VA spent $21,000 for a 27 foot fake Christmas tree; $32,000 for 62 “local image” pictures for the San Francisco VA; and $115,600 for “art consultants” for the Palo Alto facility.
A “rock sculpture” cost taxpayers $482,960, and more than a half a million dollars were spent for sculptures for veterans that could not see them.
blind veterans - the agency wasted $670,000 on two sculptures no blind veteran can even see,
“Blind veterans can’t see fancy sculptures, and all veterans would be happier if they could just see a doctor,”

abcnews.go.com/US/report-va-spent-millions-costly-art-veterans-waited/story?id=40970667
A new report alleges that the Department of Veterans Affairs spent $20 million between 2004 and 2014 on costly artwork.
Much of the spending occurred at a time when veterans were experiencing lengthy waits for treatment at VA facilities.
Veterans Affairs agency admitted publicly around this time that its health care operations were overwhelmed and understaffed.
“A Congressionally approved process needs to be formally instated, so the American people are informed on how their tax dollars are spent,"
The VA operates the nation’s largest health care system, with over 1,700 health care facilities.
thinks there’s “a lot more” spending on art than the $20 million his organization found. called for an investigation into Veterans Affairs procurement practices.

breitbart.com/big-government/2016/08/03/house-chairman-will-issue-subpoenas-va-waste-curruption/
VA blows taxpayer money on artwork or other boondoggles
“Whether it’s the still-unfinished hospital that’s more than $1 billion over budget, near-$300,000 relocation packages for senior executives, or millions in failed green-energy projects, the Department of Veterans Affairs has proven itself essentially incapable of fiscal responsibility,”
Miller also spoke out that day about the VA’s long-delayed and way-over-budget hospital project in Denver.
I vehemently disagree with the department’s proposal to cover the increased costs of the Denver project
The chairman said then on the House floor that the idea of a new veterans hospital in Denver started 16 years ago.
The initial estimate for a shared facility was $328 million.
After several years, the price tag for the project grew to $800 million, he said. The VA has completely mismanaged the construction site, so that the new price tag is $1.675 billion.
“The VA senior executives in charge of the Denver disaster collected massive bonuses as project costs skyrocketed and delays stretched on for years,” he said.
“They have since retired with full benefits,”
“This is inexcusable,” he said. “To allow rewards, bonuses and full retirement benefits to be retained, even when the facts indicate that an employee has not performed to the level expected, is not only wrong, it is also a blatant and woeful misuse of taxpayer dollars.”

>we gave the free market plenty of time to bring costs down

Nigger what? The government is the reason why healthcare is so expensive in this country. It is no where near free market

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-payer_healthcare#United_States_of_America
According to Princeton University health economist Uwe Reinhardt, describes the Veterans Administration healthcare system as a pure form of socialized medicine because it is "owned, operated and financed by government."

washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/15/veterans-groups-push-for-more-va-funding/
Veterans advocates push for more funding for VA
Veterans advocates warned Thursday that the Choice Card program passed by Congress last year is not a long-term fix for the VA’s poor services for veterans, and told lawmakers to boost the department’s budget so it can hire more staff and get a new scheduling system to prevent another waiting list scandal.
released a report saying that the Veterans Affairs Department will need an additional $2 billion in 2015 alone in order to keep up with growing demand
“We don’t believe sufficient resources have been devoted to the VA health care system,”
Congress acted to inject $16 billion into the department last summer to help hire new medical staff and pay for the Choice Card program, which allows veterans to be seen by private doctors if wait times at the VA are too long

freebeacon.com/issues/va-drops-millions-delayed-solar-power-projects/
The Department of Veterans Affairs has spent over $408 million since 2010 to install solar panels on its medical facilities, despite many of the projects experiencing significant delays and some of the systems not becoming operational at all.
an audit of 11 of the 15 solar projects awarded between fiscal years 2010 and 2013 that were still in progress as of May last year. The investigation, found that only two of the 11 solar panel projects were fully completed.
VA subsequently told the inspector that five of the 11 projects had been fully completed and eight were generating solar power. Three of the planned systems, including one in Little Rock, Arkansas, that precipitated the investigation, still are not generating solar power at all.
According to investigators, all of the projects were supposed to be finished in about seven to 12 months but instead were completed—or remain expected to be completed—on average, within 42 months.
During the same period, veterans died waiting for care at VA hospitals
examine a significantly delayed $8 million solar panel project at the Hospital in Little Rock
begun in 2012, has been delayed more than four years beyond its original planned completion date and will cost taxpayers an additional $1.5 million. The VA spent millions to install the solar panels at the Little Rock facility in 2013, only to remove and reinstall them two years later to accommodate a new parking garage. To add to problems, the panels were never turned on because they were incompatible with the local electric grid.
The VA has set aside nearly $1 million to disassemble and reassemble the panels and will spend roughly $350,000 on changes to the equipment,
“Whether it is a project as complex as hospital construction or one as simple as the proper installation of solar panels, VA continues to waste large amounts of taxpayer funds as a result of its own ineptitude,”

washingtontimes.com/news/2016/aug/9/watchdog-says-va-has-wasted-millions-solar-energy-/
Under a mandate to increase its use of renewable energy, the Department of Veterans Affairs has spent more than $408 million on solar panels over five years
inspector general found that 11 of 15 solar projects awarded between fiscal 2010 and 2013 under the VA’s “green management program” were still in progress as of May 2015, with only two systems completed.
The agency has been dealing with a series of scandals in recent years, from massive cost overruns at a hospital construction project in Denver to veterans who died waiting for care while managers, for the sake of their performance bonuses, falsified wait times to make it appear the VA was treating patients more quickly.
The watchdog said the VA has failed to manage some of its solar energy projects effectively, with solar panels installed at a facility in Little Rock, Arkansas, later removed two years later at a cost of more than $1 million to make way for construction of a parking garage. Those panels never generated electricity because they were incompatible with the local power grid
That project is now expected to be finished in January 2017, four years behind schedule, with about $1.5 million in unexpected costs.

IIRC in the USA if you can't pay for your ER because you're some broke homeless guy the ER just eats the cost and you walk away.

washingtontimes.com/news/2015/sep/3/golden-hammer-vas-record-of-waste-fraud-abuse-keep/
The federal agency entrusted to stretch tax dollars as far as they can go to get veterans the best medical care, in fact, has a hard time spending tax dollars wisely.
Over the last year, the Department of Veterans Affairs has been repeatedly cited for waste, fraud, abuse and theft that took valuable tax dollars away from veterans, many who are still waiting in long backlogs to get benefits decisions.
a memo that surfaced in March by the VA’s chief procurement officer, Jan. R. Frye, who went public with a stunning admission that the VA likely wastes $6 billion a year on unnecessary contracts, purchases and services.
“Doors are swung wide open for fraud, waste and abuse,” Mr. Frye, the deputy assistant secretary for acquisition and logistics, wrote in a whistleblower letter that made national headlines.
The examples backing up Mr. Frye’s claims just keep piling up:
The VA’s inspector general reported that the agency's human resources department wasted $6.1 million on two conferences in Orlando, Florida, that treated employees more to vacation than to training.
The inspector general also divulged in that report that department officials wasted $97,906 on trinkets like bags, pens and water that were unnecessary. VA employees also improperly accepted gifts including room upgrades, meals, limousine services, golf, spa services, helicopter rides and tickets to see the Rockettes.
In July, an employee at the Rhode Island Veterans Memorial Cemetery in Exeter pled guilty to stealing 150 marble headstones from a veterans cemetery in a scheme that went unnoticed for a long time.

washingtontimes.com/news/2015/sep/3/golden-hammer-vas-record-of-waste-fraud-abuse-keep/
In June, a former head engineer at the VA hospital in East Orange, New Jersey, was accused of taking $1.2 million in kickbacks for contracts, which fleeced taxpayers.
The VA’s inspector general found last month that the Veterans Benefits Administration mismanaged millions of dollars in benefits for veterans who were unable to manage their own income and estates due to age, injury or disability. Among the woes cited in the report was a failure to remove two custodians who had misspent benefit funds.
In testimony before Congress in May, Mr. Frye cited reports that VA employees in the Bronx in New York City had swiped charge cards 2,000 times, saying they were buying prosthetic legs and arms for veterans. Each charge was for $24,999, one dollar below the VA’s charging limit for purchase cards. When lawmakers demanded details about the charges, they were told there was no documentation.
The recent record of VA woes frustrates spending watchdogs, because the agency claims it needs more money to clear backlogs of cases for veterans waiting for benefit determinations.
“At a time when the VA has a massive backlog in getting veterans health care and getting veterans paperwork processed so they can see a doctor, it is obscene that they are wasting money on self congratulatory conferences,”
reports in 2014 that 40 veterans had died while waiting for health care at the Phoenix, Arizona, VA hospital
“The failure of the Obama administration to fire VA officials for continuing to waste billions of taxpayer dollars intended to provide health care for our nation’s veterans shows the disregard our selfie-obsessed president has for those who fought to preserve our nation’s freedom,
He acknowledged that waste within the department’s procurement office was a long-standing problem

washingtonpost.com/news/federal-eye/wp/2015/10/30/more-than-2500-va-employees-were-on-paid-leave-last-year-the-va-hasnt-tracked-why/
More than 2,500 employees at the Department of Veterans Affairs were placed on paid leave for at least a month last year, and the agency acknowledges it didn’t track the details and why they were sent home
The total tab in salary alone for these absences — ranging from 30 days to more than a year for 46 employees — came to $23 million
VA had put 6,000 employees, or 2 percent of its workforce, on administrative leave for one to six months from 2010-2013.
The audit, first made public by The Washington Post, found that 53,000 civilian employees were kept home for one to three months during the three fiscal years that ended in September 2013. About 4,000 of them were idled for three months to a year and several hundred for one to three years.
The tab for these workers exceeded $700 million in salary alone, auditors found.

Prices are defined by demand and supply. Explain to me how letting society pay is going to change the prices for the better.

The yanks misappropriating ancient greek symbols. Since when is the caduceus a medical symbol???