Reminder that Frozen is the most rushed 3d Animation ever made by Disney

Reminder that Frozen is the most rushed 3d Animation ever made by Disney.

I Never understand why this movie got billion dollars of profit

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>I Never understand why this movie got billion dollars of profit

Wreck-It Ralph (Original story, pop music)
Big Hero 6 (Original story, pop music)
Zootopia (Original story, pop music)

>Frozen (Traditional story, original music)

I can't possibly see why anyone likes it the most.

It made a fucking mint because it was bland and generic. Everyone in the world could project whatever they wanted on it. It was all things to all people.
It was the inaction figure of movies.

right place right time
enough shut in losers watch Disney films.

Following the success of Tangled people wanted more. They knew they could expect something as good.
>It had more sellable characters.
>the popularity of 'Let it go' helped out a lot
>Tangled made it for the time more 'in fashion' to enjoy animated princess stuff

Let me guess your favorite animated movie is Wall.E, Up, and Ghibli shit.

Don't you dare try to fucking say that Let It Go is in line with traditional Disney songs, that is pop shit if I ever heard it. Plus, Try Everything was made for Zootopia and is literally an in-universe pop song.

Most of the Frozen songs are power ballads, just like every single Disney movie since they started. But keep telling yourself it's the same as Rihanna, Fallout Boy, and Shakira.

Kill yourself. If you're hating on Wall-E, Up, or Ghibli you're tastes are shit. It's good to know who exactly is ruining the art form by buying mediocre shit like Frozen.

That wasn't the point of those films though. The music was just there for a montage.

>let it go isnt in line with traditional disney songs

holy shit dude

>Hating Frozen

wow, what a special snowflake you are, user.

We need to hate Frozen user.

Its the way to be a cool kidz in Sup Forums.

You know it definitely bothers me how direct-to-video Frozen looks. Disney, despite not really trying anymore, really does employ skilled artists. Why not make use of them?

She's so perfect.

Frozen was in production hell for a long time. They likely did the best they could under the circumstances. It also should be noted that the movie almost didn't get released, and becoming a world-wide hit was completely unpredicted.

Frozen was entirely remade within 6 months before deadline.

Frozen being a rushed-ass piece of shit technically as well as plotwise but still being the most profitable animated movie ever as well as being the 5th most profitable movie ever at its peak is a testament to feeling over technique in movies.

The somewhat crappy animation and the plot holes didn't matter, because there was something about the fundamental conflict over family relationships, past mistakes, hidden pain and misunderstandings that resonated with the audiences worldwide. Disney chose a good fundamental plot dynamic over a finished product, and they chose well.

>traditional story
Nah. Frozen has nothing to do with Andersen's Snow Queen, it was the basis where they started to develop the script from back in the 1930's or whenever, that's it.

Kristen Bell says the voice actors had been recording for 6 months when they decided to scrap everything and rewrite the movie.

Frozen the movie was essentially animated in less time than the 7-minute Frozen Fever short, within a few months. They have some nicer-looking scenes they probably had animated before the rewrite, like the scene where Anna and Kristoff meet Olaf in the ice tree glade, but most of the movie was rushed as fuck and it shows. They just struggled with the plot for a really long time, and when they finally found something they thought worked and made it click, they decided to go with the new plot even though it meant that the end product would look like shit considering it's Disney seeing as the release date was something like half a year away. Frozen was animated in a fraction of the time than the other Disney movies, which is why it looks so shit

Francis Fukuyama would be pleased if he watched cartoons and was aware that one of the biggest smash hits of the past few years was about the triumph of progressive liberalism that appealed to audiences of all cultural backgrounds.

Eh, production problems don't necessarily prevent a refined sense of aesthetics. Lots of visually impressive things have been made by teams working with scarce resources.

>Most of the Frozen songs are power ballads, just like every single Disney movie since they started

Maybe if you mean " since they started....doing a lot of full length uninterrupted power ballads". But that's a relatively new thing. The stuff made in Walt's lifetime was generally not like that.

>hating Ghibli
you must be a very joyless person

I'm just making fun of him for being a stereotype.

Frozen's songs are much more contemporary Broadway than the classic Disney ballad style though. It seems like the soundtrack was composed with the Broadway musical in mind. The only really classic Disney style song is For the First Time in Forever, and Let it Go is close, but shit like In Summer and Fixer Upper are very different from the classic Disney style.

Seems to be a running trend with Disney's animated fare.
>Frozen was in development Hell since Walt's time, under "the ice queen" title.
>Entire script had to be rewritten after they heard one showtune.
>makes over a billion.

>Zootopia in development Hell with script troubles.
>Entire script is rewritten after sizeable amounts of the movie is already modeled and rendered and animated.
>Assets are reused left right and center despite entire story being different.
>Movie makes over a billion dollars.

I really enjoyed Tangled a lot more.

Hate is too much of a strong word.

It was ok, mediocre, basically nothing special in my opinion. It isn't a bad movie, but it is WAY overated.

Word of mouth. This movie had virtually no presence during its marketing aside from those shitty Olaf commercials. Higher ups had no faith in the film, it was just meant to go out quickly because Pixar fucked up Good Dinosaur and had to push back its release. Its easily tellable, because Disney didn't account for how well the film would do with kids when it came to merchandise (which sold out quickly) and a lot of merchandise that came out around the same time as the film was about to had tons of shit from the earlier version of the film (Elsa doll that said stuff like "We have to save my sister/I am your Queen!", Colouring Books/Novelization that had deleted songs and alternate scenes of stuff in the film)

Even the commercials, they redid that Kristoff/Anna/Marshmellow scene like 4 times over different sneakpeaks. It was rewritten 6 months pre release and it shows. I'd be on board for a "remaster" that fixes all the animation/texturing/lighting in Hyperion, even Frozen Fever was much "looser" in its animation.

So apart from Frozen and Zootopia, any other major Disney hits that they thought was gonna be a throaway film in the first place?

Strange really, Zootopia went through the same problems and was rushed yet it still manage to really good and has a really good chance at ageing well.

Frozen is ageing badly and at a quick rate as well, hopefully if a sequel comes out they make it more beautiful like how Moana is shaping up to be.

shame there's no documentary on Frozen, that Zootopia documentary shown us how they work.. it wasn't really pleasant. Maybe it was the lightining in these rooms? Or the background music?

Zootopia was changed because it was just too dark and depressing and audience didn't really like the supposed magical world filled with talking animals.

Glad they changed it and made Judy the protagonist instead of Nick.

I thought Inside Out and Zootopia were utterly mediocre, but I liked Frozen.

that i know of course, and i am fucking glad it happened (goddamn reverse sweatbox, wish i never saw it though... that's just me.)

it's just it was handled better in dvd extras, the sound in the documentary was extra low, these fusion guys often do documents?

Eh, it was better than BH6

Moana will show us lots of water, jungle and lava IIRC. it's gonna be pretty.

Writing overhauls are pretty common in the production of Disney movies, ever seen The Sweatbox?

If you havent: vid.me/xjIV/the-sweatbox

there's a reason some fans calls zootopia case reverse kingdom of the sun/reverse sweatbox.

It's gonna be gorgeous, I believe

The Lion King

At least this one had no development hell to go through, it was thought up from start to finish

or am i wrong?

Avatar and Frozen's success says a lot about people's tastes

lionking.wikia.com/wiki/King_of_the_Jungle

Disney thought Lion King was going to be a flop with Pocahontas being their next big hit. Instead, the opposite happened.

>Liking the better things makes you a stereotype

Good lord, WHY?

It's really disheartening that shit like Frozen and Finding Dory make utter bank despite being so mediocre.

i kind of feel sorry for Pixar, they lost their spark and now they're just chumming out what Disney tells them to make.

as for the Frozen... moms like pretty white princesses, and train their daughters to like pretty white princesses.

this winter we'll find out if history will repeat:

talking animals movie VS brown princess

songs aside the writing team looks strong:

Ron Clements,John Musker(Little Mermaid,
Treasure Planet,PatF,Aladdin, Hercules)
BUT then:
Taika Waititi
(Eagle vs Shark,Boy, Green Lantern... wtf?!)
Jared Bush
(Dumb and Dumber(!), Zootopia)

actually... i am just trying to read tea leaves, kind of. Why i even bother?

Elsa was originally supposed to be the villain, but after Idina Menzel recorded "Let It Go", Disney execs decided the song worked better if Elsa was a good, more sympathetic, character, which meant rewriting about half the film.

>Execs

what strange people, sometimes they can save the movie and sometimes they doom it.

Taika also did What We Do in The Shadows, which was pretty good.

Apply yourself.

youtube.com/watch?v=qAt9ovvKgCU

what was the exec's problem with KOTS?

Wreck it Ralph had a lot of animatics that were dramatically different from the final film too, don't know how late those changes were made.

I'm amazed at how strong Zootopia's story was considering how dramatically different it started, plus all the challenges in designing/animating so many different, often furry creatures at different scales.

Pretty close - actually it wasn't Disney execs, it was co-directors and writers Lee and Buck, and after hearing Let It Go after it had been composed and performed by the Lopezes, not by Menzel. I think.

I understand they didn't know what to do with the movie, they'd been struggling with the plot since Walt was alive and couldn't find a way to make it work, it had gone through rewrite and rework after rework. I guess they thought it'll be shit anyway, but the idea of Elsa being sympathetic instead of a snarky villain finally clicked and felt right.

They had to choose between
a) a movie that's had sufficient time to finish and polish the animation, but with a plot and a dynamic that feels somehow meh and
b) a movie where the idea and dynamic feels like it works, but the animation will look somewhat shit because there's no time to do it properly

and they chose b. And it became a massive hit.

Pic related is the Elsa from a close earlier iteration, there's scenes of Menzel voicing her. She had a rap number. A. Rap. Number. Think about it.

I think we should all be grateful Lee & Buck went with the sympathetic Elsa gut feeling even if it meant a rushed

>they'd been struggling with the plot since Walt was alive
Wait, literally? I thought the '1930s' thing user said earlier was an exaggeration.

Because it came out at the perfect moment, when a bunch of adults who grew up during the Disney renaissance era had matured enough to not be ashamed of watching a children's cartoon. And since they underestimated how good a children's cartoon could be, even an okay but bland movie like Frozen blew their expcations. So on top of the usual marketing for children, you also had a bunch of Disney-nostalgic young adults social marketing and making it hip.

most animal models were ready, and the story finally started coming together after that whole protagonist switch.. "make us love the world, and THEN show us it slowly breaking apart"

personal quesrion... would you like to see such face on the big screen?

Nope, Walt Disney Pictures started to look into adapting the Snow Queen in 1937. Many different teams tried their hands on it, including one with Glen Keane around the Disney Renaissance in the 1990s, but it was stuck in dev hell for decades, until it finally got commissioned in 2011.

Pic related is a concept version of the Snow Queen from the hand-drawn era

Not who you're talking to, but is that not just the character from zootopia that we already saw on the big screen?

And what were you saying about them changing the protagonist??

They really tried a lot of different versions of the Snow Queen over the decades and years

And different dynamics between the snow queen and the protagonist girl

yes, but he wasn't the audience insert. the optimistic rabbit became the one.

you didn't see the documentary?

>how dare you not enjoy popular thing bawwww
boo fucking hoo, autists.

and the male love interest, of course

No- what's it called? I'd be interested to see that.

It gave me my favorite incest OTP though, so IDGAF

youtube.com/watch?v=D3pF9owYlRI

share your thoughts after watching it then!

I think Beauty and the Beast was in a similar boat. Apparently they struggled for years what to do with the plot once Belle is in the Beast's castle or something along those lines. It took decades for them to figure out the 2nd act.

Also a more glamorous version inspired by Bette Midler - before they eventually got the idea to make them sisters

It's really interesting how so many Disney movies were thiiiiis close to becoming something completely different.

From the Frozen wikipedia page

>By November 2012, the production team thought they had finally "cracked" the puzzle of how to make the film's story work,[38]:155 but according to Del Vecho, in late February 2013, it was realized that the film still "wasn't working", which necessitated even more rewriting of scenes and songs from February through June 2013.

>He explained, "we rewrote songs, we took out characters and changed everything, and suddenly the movie gelled. But that was close. In hindsight, piece of cake, but during, it was a big struggle."[65] Looking back, Anderson-Lopez joked she and Lopez thought at the time they could end up working as "birthday party clown[s]" if the final product "pull[ed] ... down" their careers[51]:19:07 and recalled that "we were really writing up until the last minute."[70] In June (five months before the already-announced release date), the songwriters finally got the film working when they composed the song "For the First Time in Forever", which, in Lopez's words, "became the linchpin of the whole movie."[51]:19:24


> In June (five months before the already-announced release date), the songwriters finally got the film working when they composed the song "For the First Time in Forever"

Jesus fuck

>I Never understand why this movie got billion dollars of profit

Third wave feminism

>This wave feminism
The BEST feminism

this would have been better.

I was on tumblr at the time Frozen was being released and almost all of them were planning to "boycott" it because the leads werent brown enough

Because of all the money they get.

I haven't finished it just yet, but boy, I really wish some of those earlier versions were available to watch or read. I would love to see the collar version, or all that stuff about Nick's backstory. Especially once they started saying how dark it got.

Ah yeah, the bullshit completely made up controversy over how outrageous it was that Kristoff, who was supposedly Sami, didn't look like a weird imaginary hybrid between an indian and an inuit that had absolutely nothing to do with how the Sami actually look

Isn't the story Danish and set in Europe, aka where white people come from?

What a shame that such a long effort was so rushed out.
Kinda reminds me of The Thief and the Cobbler.

>personal quesrion... would you like to see such face on the big screen?

Nah, I agree with the writers that the first version of the world was simply unpleasant. And it seemed to lack any sense of allegory, which the final film has in spades without being too heavy handed. I really adore what it became, it's so surprising that they were off on a completely different track initially.

Meanwhile, an actual Sami man from 1800's Norway.

Tumblr really is full of assholes who'll blatantly lie about anything, including the identity and ethnic makeup of an indigenous population, just to stir up false controversy in the name of defending good causes (like the same identity of the poor noble indigenous people they themselves are blatantly perverting and misrepresenting) and to gather internet points. Loathsome.

Also a Swedish 1800s Sami dude, pardon the spam but this "controversy" pissed me off so much as I'm sure there are now hordes of teenagers who honestly believe the Sami were dark at some point because indigenous = dark, no exceptions

Even more Broadway, I suppose. Elsa could have been a bit like Yzma, or Mother Gothel

Also apparently around this time Olaf was Elsa's annoying, evil sidekick
>The production team also turned Olaf from Elsa's obnoxious sidekick into Anna's comically innocent sidekick. (Around the time when they decided to make them sisters, after Jen Lee was brought in in 2012)[60] Lee's initial response to the original "mean" version of Olaf had been, "Kill the f-ing snowman," and she found Olaf by far "the hardest character to deal with."

I have to wonder...how do you struggle with the idea of writing a story based on The Snow Queen? It's pretty much laid out point by point, and even if it wasn't, it wouldn't be hard to default to 'Ice Queen does something fucknuts and the protagonist has to stop her'.

Honestly I would've preferred even that to the soppy, bland, poorly animated, and poorly written mess that Frozen was.

Actually the Frozen wikipedia page has info on that, as the creative team talked a lot about the different stages and difficulties of adapting the fairy tale.

Remember, Disney doesn't set out to create faithful adaptations, they set out to create Disney Animated features, in the Disney style.

> the studio encountered difficulty with The Snow Queen, as it could not find a way to adapt and relate the Snow Queen character to modern audiences. Even as far back as the 1930s and 1940s, it was clear that the source material contained great cinematic possibilities, but the Snow Queen character proved to be too problematic.

>in 2008, …September, Buck pitched several ideas to Lasseter, one of which was The Snow Queen.[38]:6,11 Buck later revealed that his initial inspiration for The Snow Queen was not the Andersen fairy tale itself, but that he wanted "to do something different on the definition of true love." "Disney had already done the 'kissed by a prince' thing, so [I] thought it was time for something new," he recalled.

>Development began under the title Anna and the Snow Queen, which was planned to be traditionally animated.[46] According to Josh Gad, he first became involved with the film at that early stage, when the plot was still relatively close to the original Andersen fairy tale and Megan Mullally was going to play Elsa.[47] By early 2010, the project entered development hell once again, when the studio again failed to find a way to make the story and the Snow Queen character work.[48][49]

>"Hans Christian Andersen's original version of The Snow Queen is a pretty dark tale and it doesn't translate easily into a film. For us the breakthrough came when we tried to give really human qualities to the Snow Queen. When we decided to make the Snow Queen Elsa and our protagonist Anna sisters, that gave a way to relate to the characters in a way that conveyed what each was going through and that would relate for today's audiences. (Peter Del Vecho)

>it wouldn't be hard to default to 'Ice Queen does something fucknuts and the protagonist has to stop her'.
Funny you should say that;

>In the original script the songwriters first saw, Elsa was evil from the start; she kidnapped Anna from her own wedding to intentionally freeze her heart, then later descended upon the town with an army of snowmen with the objective of recapturing Anna to freeze her heart properly.[51]:8:42 By the time Lee came in, the first act included Elsa deliberately striking Anna in the heart with her freezing powers; then "the whole second act was about Anna trying to get to Hans and to kiss him and then Elsa trying to stop her."[60] Buck revealed that the original plot attempted to make Anna sympathetic by focusing on her frustration as being perceived as the "spare" in relation to the "heir," Elsa.[61] The original plot also had different pacing, in that it was "much more of an action adventure" than a musical or a comedy.[58]

>Buck and Del Vecho presented their storyboards to Lasseter, and the entire production team adjourned to a conference to hear his thoughts on the project.[39] Art director Michael Giaimo later acknowledged Lasseter as the "game changer" of the film: "I remember John saying that the latest version of The Snow Queen story that Chris Buck and his team had come up with was fun, very light-hearted. But the characters didn't resonate. They aren't multi-faceted. Which is why John felt that audiences wouldn't really be able to connect with them."[39] (Around 2011, before Jen Lee was brought in)

According to Tumblr, black people make up 99% of the world's population.

Not black people, "brown" people.

>then later descended upon the town with an army of snowmen with the objective of recapturing Anna to freeze her heart properly.
ffs, so it was dull and needlessly repetitive even early on.

>then "the whole second act was about Anna trying to get to Hans and to kiss him and then Elsa trying to stop her."
So, The Little Mermaid?

Yeah, Disney doesn't set out NOW to create faithful adaptations. If the film WAS truly conceptualized in the 1930s, then it was made around the time of Snow White and honestly their films didn't deviate much there aside from changing a death scene or two.

Even then, if they wanted to deviate from it that badly, I still can't see why it would be so hard to write something for it. The basic premise is that the female protagonist goes out to find the boy that the Snow Queen kidnapped. Even if the original gets super dark and super weird, I feel like the basic idea of 'girl saves boy from evil Queen' is a solid enough framework to build a story around.

But this is stupid too. Why the hell is Elsa so fixated on freezing Anna's heart.

>entirely remade
>entirely

That word. I do not think it means what you think it means. Frozen was, in absolutely no respect, *entirely* remade in the course of 6 months. That is absolutely incorrect.

What pissed me off even more is that they made it sound like the "normal Scandinavians" had invaded and taken the land from the Sami since they where "indigenous". They might have a point for the most northern parts of Norway or Sweden, but the Sami have never been in the rest of the area. Danes, Swedes and Norwegians are just as indigenous as Sami, if not more, since those areas have been inhabited way before the area that the Sami started to live in was even clear of the ice from the ice age.

>If the film WAS truly conceptualized in the 1930s
It wasn't truly conceptualized then, it's when WDAS first started to think about doing something with it.

They started to seriously conceptualize it in the wake of the success of another Andersen adaptation, The Little Mermaid - but Disney's TLM is very much different in tone and plot from the original fairy tale. So the Snow Queen was never about to become as faithful an adaptation as Snow White. Something close but much more cheerful than the original in the manner of Beauty and the Beast or The Little Mermaid, maybe

>For us the breakthrough came when we tried to give really human qualities to the Snow Queen.
And that where you fucked up. The entire point of the snow queen is that she isn't human. She has no emotions. She's not human, because she is the embodiment of the frozen waste of northern Scandinavia. She's meant to be cold and unforgiving, and kill you if she just feels like it.
Just fucking adapt the book into a film wouldn't be hard. Only for people who completely missed the fucking point of the story.

Yeah, and at least in Finland Sami and Finnish have a mutual root ancestral language and the latest research is unsure which group of people settled the land first, Finns or the Sami, some 10 000 years ago.

They're considered more indigenous because they held on longer to their ancestral ways of life - but the peoples in the Nordics have been living in there together for a VERY long time, and equating the Sami to the Native Americans where they lived on the land for centuries or longer before the white invaders (the contemproary majority population) showed up and took it from them is just blatantly misrepresenting the situation so bad it's insisting black is actually white.

It's outrageous those lies are presented as fact by the people acting as defenders of the rights of the Sami - when in fact they're spreading lies and misinformation, and in fact appropriating and twisting the history and identity of the Sami to use in their own "more POC in mainstream movies" agenda. It's fucked up.

Okay then. The idea I was getting from the thread that it was conceptualized then, my bad. I can understand their need to be more different and successful in the wake of TLM (dead mermaid to married happy mermaid) and Beauty and the Beast (Belle marries the man she loves, instead of pigeonholed into marrying Gaston when he kills the Beast).

I still can't say whether or not it really should be hard to make a cheerful yet feeling inducing story based on The Snow Queen, though. But a lot of this may also come from an overall disappoint I had with Frozen itself. It could very well be the adaptation of Snow Queen that best fit that criteria--I personally just feel it missed the mark. I guess to some extent I just like my adaptations, even if they're insanely different, to pay SOME homage to the original story and Frozen really doesn't aside from a queen with ice powers. Their prior movie Tangled is a good example of what I expect when I hear 'different take adaptation' because the changes are made to fit a child-friendly audience and helped a rather short story reach a proper running time. Frozen I felt just kinda meandered and didn't really care about any reference whatsoever to the original.

But user, you don't understand. They didn't want to adapt the story faithfully, they wanted to create a Disney Film that would resonate strongly with their contemporary target audience.

You're still looking at it from the original story point of view, evaluating it on whether or not it fits the themes and aspects of the original story - but that's not what Disney set out to do at all. They considered it, several times, and each time over the decades decided that it didn't work for Disney. What finally worked for Disney was the human aspect multifaceted characters family drama that modern viewers could relate to. They don't give a shit about the "point" of the original story, they want to do a movie they feel works and will sell.

I mean the point of the original TLM story was that Ariel dies in the end in an act of self-sacrifice for a prince who doesn't even know about it as he married someone else. The Disney movie missed that point rather spectacularly, too.

>Big Hero 6
>Original Story
No, it's not. If Frozen is a traditional story, though heavily modified, so is Big Hero 6. Which we'll never see in comics again, & if we do, they'll be either in another earth, or aimed towards children & not even seem like the originals. Which is a bummer.

And at least 33% of them have vitiligo