"Self improvement is masturbation. Now, self-destruction..."

>"Self improvement is masturbation. Now, self-destruction..."

What did he mean by this? Guys in the gym being healthy getting in shape is masturbation? So if i sat around all day eating cheetos and drinking mnt dew thats better?

Every other guy who gets /fit/ and gets a $500k/hr job with his doctorate mostly uses it to masturbate his own ego

Palahniuk is an edgelord
i remember in some interview or one of his books he made this huge thing about himself/one of his characters getting buff as fuck and completely cease working out and watching it slowly waste away

>f i sat around all day eating cheetos and drinking mnt dew thats better?

you'd be less of a dick than some self obsessed faggot looking at himself for four hours a day in the mirror, yes.

what the hell kind of clothes are those?
he looks like a prostitute

90's edgecore

theres actually a study saying people who are healthier are nicer than people who arent. overweight or ugly people tend to be outcasts and aim their insecurities and hatred onto other people

>Guys in the gym being healthy getting in shape is masturbation?
Yes. I lift solely to be better than other people. It's entirely egotism.

>overthinking answer
You learn more about yourself by destroying yourself.

>real answer
Fight Club was full of stuff that mean nothing but sound deep on the surface.

your death is coming, faster than you think. self destruction achieves this unavoidable outcome but in an enjoyable way of your choosing.
choosing a life of self improvement is just wasting your time on shit that isnt going to last very long. its literally jerking off over yourself.

Lifting for pussy is masturbation
Now lifting for strength...

Tyler goes on many rants and none of them are too coherent. You could make a thread out of any one of them. As to what this one means, it's more comparable to the Bible. You get what you want out of it, you just have to be looking.

>>"Self improvement is masturbation. Now, self-destruction..."
>What did he mean by this?
It was a metaphor. Men trying to improve themselves superficially instead of spiritually.
He meant self-destruction as destroying your spiritual self, your personality, your beliefs, so you can rebuild anew, and then repeat. "It's only after you've lost everything that you're free to do anything" He saw the destruction of self as a way to unchain yourself from society.
It's also worth noting that, a, its a work of fiction, b, The author had a poor understanding of Nietzsche, c, Tyler is meant to be a bit of a contradiction so as not to take everything he says as Gospel.

The sad thing is that you're probably not even joking and are really not getting this.

What bothered me was the irony of Brad (or Norton I can't remember) looking at a Calvin Klein ad and commenting "is that what a man should look like?"

meanwhile Brad's physique in this movie is legendary and is some next level trend setting shit

was it supposed to be ironic? or something more like, who ever gives the least fucks about other people\s opinions is the most attractive?

Muscels to look good =|= muscels to do actual things

I never understood those faggots going to gym in the town I grew up. I went swimming and chopping wood and could EASILY take down most of these fucks in any arm wrestling match.

I can say working out feels masturbatory to me. That doesn't mean it's BAD.

Remember Tyler isn't real. Why create a fat, ugly avatar?

He meant that people who go to the gym and pay dr. shekel to lift heavy things are literal subhumans because you don't need anything other than your body to be beautiful, strong and healthy

he meant that truly redpilled people do calisthenics

It's narcissism.

The entire point is that Tyler is a hypocrite and a stupid asshole. Nothing he says makes much sense, and you're not supposed to listen to him.

All those high level jewish gym owners

>being healthy is narcissistic
what did he mean by this?

Lifting heavy never felt masturbatory to me. Martial arts, on the other hand, did, sparring especially.

>not doing both

/fit/masculine masterrace.

Look as good as you feel, feel better because you look good. Strength, practical muscle and mental clarity.

>mfw I was a pudgy, lazy, beta, sensitive escapist before hitting the gym and becoming in touch with primal masculinity.

I think he's trying to say that men aren't meant to be building life so much as consuming it. His worldview bases around the fact that we are all flawed and we all die, so we should do what we really want to why we can and experience the real meat of life. Spending all your time trying to meet a silly (and arguably unnatural) standard of beauty or even behavior is ignoring the fact that it isnt what you really want and isnt going to last.

(Though lets not forget that Brad Pitt roided for that movie)

You can be healthy and not be an egotistical faggot. You can work out for your health, or do it for narcissistic reasons. If you don't believe me, ask Zyzz how healthy he is...

>muh beach muscles
Nigger, you're retarded. Can you lift 240lbs over your head from chopping wood like my useless gym muscles can?

>everything is pointless! why do anything!

spotted the fatties trying to justify their apathy and self-loathing

If health is your real goal then you should probably be spending most of your time running rather than lifting.

everything tyler durden did was meant to be hypocritical

And? Taking pride in lack of narcissism is also narcissistic. The only way to avoid narcissism is to be completely apathetic towards everything and everyone. People will build up complexes over the littlest things. If society deems one form of narcissism more positively than another, why not choose that avenue instead of becoming narcissistic over being unattractive but "enlightened" (as though life is an RPG and you have to specialize)? I don't encourage anyone to work out, don't try to convince anyone. It's all self contained. I don't see how you can sell that as amoral to me without being hypocritical by condemning me, thereby placing themselves above me.

Read the book, cuck.

I got /fit/ but remained a sensitive escapist. It didn't really change my personality like I hoped and I still don't like being alive. I just learned some self discipline

You said working out is inherently narcissistic, regardless of the reasons, simply because it also feels good.
This is objectively stupid

Not really. There's no reason not to be stronger if you can be, since it aids every day life unless you're completely sedentary.

Obviously his advice should be taken with a grain of salt, but that doesnt mean did didnt have any good points.

I started working construction this year and most ~35 year old workers who did construction for at least a few years have to lift 300lbs bags of concrete overhead regularly. They have no problem doing it.

>choosing a life of self improvement is just wasting your time on shit that isnt going to last very long. its literally jerking off over yourself.
Except taking care or yourself can last you the rest of your life and extend health and life quality

>you should probably be spending most of your time running rather than lifting.
This is a retarded meme

Lol no it doesnt, a 21st century first worlder rarely has to carry anything heavier than a folding chair. Being able to walk long distances is much more important.

cardiovascular health > having big muscles

>You said

Oh no, that wasn't me, sorry.

People who unironically say
"I don't want to live to 100 anyway XD"
need to be shot.
What those fat wastes of space don't get is that their early death won't be a simple heart attack and that's it. It's going to be months, if not years, of pain and humiliation

Even mark ripptoe admitted that lifting deligently will majorly fuck up your skeletal system when you get older, im only 18 and ive already gotten a dislocated shoulder from benching and that causes permanent damage.

A strong body is strong for a purpose. The point was that men aren't supposed to be kendolls who keep themselves mint in box.

If you want to be strong, then what you really want is to beat the shit out of other people and break things. Growing muscles by doing this is incidental. They come second to their purpose.

> a 21st century first worlder rarely has to carry anything heavier than a folding chair.
You'd be amazed at how many people injure themselves with basic tasks because they have all the muscle of a dried twig.
>Being able to walk long distances is much more important.
Sounds like a good reason to do Squats then

You're either full of shit or you're claiming that an average construction worker can compete with Olympic athletes.

By 80 your brain will probably be notably deteriorating, i dont want to live to the point where im not me anymore.

I don't get it. How can you encourage a life of hedonism but demonize masturbation at the same time? What's more hedonistic than the sexual? If self improvement is fleeting and therefore not worth doing, so is literally anything else.

Both of those things require only a normal amount of muscle. You need to exercise but 'lifting' is not neccesary to be healthy and useful.

Obviously he meant it in the figurative sense, and he was just making a remark, not 'demonizing' anything.

>was it supposed to be ironic?
Yes. He's supposed to be a major contradiction.
"Is that what a man looks like?" - Yet, "I look like you wanna look, I fuck like you wanna fuck."
He preaches we're all the same type of scum, while being treated like a God.
He says, "We're raised to believe we'll be rock stars and movies Gods, but we won't," to a bunch of rock stars and movie gods.
His philosophy is meant to be unsustainable, hense the towers falling at the end.

you mean like a pimp

noone else ever wore that kind of stuff

not in the 90s. but how would you know, you were toddlers at best that time

The irony is the point; Tyler is not real, the same as the CK imagery.

Said by a living Adonis who was paid 17 million dollars to do this film. I mean,I still like it,but I hate people who are obsessed with it and don't understand the irony of idolizing a movie character.

He is full of shit. Concrete usually comes in 80lb bags. OSHA rules tell you that if you are lifting anything over 50lbs you should get somebody to help. If your boss makes you lift 300 lb things over your head you could sue them.

That is not to say people follow the guidelines, I have lifted ~200 lb things when I did construction. But not over my head

The twist wasn't meant to invalidate everything he said though, that would be retarded. It just provides new context and makes us reconsider its extremism.

how old was brad during the filmimg of this film

You have to self destruct and pick up the pieces to be a real disciplined person which creates a better outcome instead of living a playing pretend boastful self improvement persona with no merit or value behind it beyond the goal other then gratification and embellishment of the self as the highest priority.

Be yourself but not at the cost of others.

I can knock you out, if that's what you're asking. Overly buff guys are just the other aspect of nu-male-ism.

>Both of those things require only a normal amount of muscle.
That you don't get with the normal 21st century life
>You need to exercise but 'lifting' is not neccesary to be healthy and useful.
If you don't use your muscles in every day life, yes it is. You've been memed, my friend.

>I can beat you up because because I swim

I could see this being the case for recovering drug addicts, people who lost loved ones and all that, and the experienced gained conquering those demons. But if you're seeking those behaviors to be self destructive on purpose, I don't see how that's any different from working out. Seems like something you have to be unaware of to gain anything from it.

>Overly buff guys are just the other aspect of nu-male-ism.
Which chad took your waifu, user?

read the introduction to "convict conditioning" to learn why lifting is for stupid people and calisthenics is superior

That sounds like something that might have happened in Survivor. I know the main character gets buff there, so they can parade him around the media.

Kindly take your cult shit elsewhere

>Palahniuk is an edgelord

This, he once wrote a short story that's literally just the main character masturbating in increasingly dangerous ways until he almost kills himself in the most disgusting way imaginable.

You should consider reading books or picking up chess along with your homoerotic gym practice, pham, because it seems it's dumbing you down too.

None. I'm good. I'm not the one that has the I-got-bullied complex written that hard all over me.

>The twist wasn't meant to invalidate everything he said though, that would be retarded. It just provides new context and makes us reconsider its extremism.
Good point. I appreciate your perspective.
But from my perspective, it seems like the author had a laymans interpretation of Nietzsche and one of his themes was that his way of life wouldn't work. With that being said, I don't think they did a good job at conveying that point and made his ways seem really attractive even with the ending,
Could be wrong, but that's what I see when I watch the film.

I wasn't talking about crossfit but bodyweight training you absolute retard

That's how it started with me, I'll be honest it took a few years for me to get out of my comfort zone and start making more significant changes. The discipline is a good start the rest has to follow on that base.

I'm still no alpha male, probably never will be but I'm so much more then I ever was and I'm happy.

>n-n-u male!
>I could totally beat them in a fight
>Didn't get bullied
Not making a convincing case, m8

it's a good story

Especially when Durden gives his speech complaining about hollywood stars.

Relatable

People who say this never read or play chess themselves.

Enjoy your diminishing returns because you're too proud and arrogant to go to the gym

Come on, that's a bit reductive. Guts is a great short story.

It's pretty obvious you brainlet, he means that with every fap you improve yourself
I hope you're baiting

That's because I don't intend to, you dumb cuckhold. I have nothing to prove to a faggot like you.

> implying self improvement isn't also self destructive

you know, people who go around judging other guys are usually the most insecure of them all

I do both though.You must live in a shithole if that's the people you encounter. If you want a rec, I suggest you try War and Peace.

Lol. That's why I'm not going around doing it but do it online, anonymously, you dumb fuck.

Yet here you are, trying desperately to get the last word in and trying to get cyber credibility on an image board made distinct by anonymity.
Pretty sad, honestly.

Palahniuk is also a flaming homosexual if i recall correctly

why would anyone follow a degenerate?

Can you explain to me how hunter gatherers used their upper body strength more than us on a regular basis?

Walking was and always will be the important thing, arms are useless if you cant get around.

>War and Peace
That's like somebody who goes around trumpeting about how they're a film buff suggesting 2001.

Nobody has ever really read war and peace either, good job

I think of the movie as one big 'makes you think', it doesnt have one clear message at all.

whats the difference

>war and peace
wow impressive taste m8 you must be cultured

That movie sucked my balls.

Lol. Keep projecting, you clown. I have nothing to do today and come here to chill and insult idiots like you. What's your excuse?

That is something only someone who hasn't read it would say. Time to stop posting, buddy.

Lol. Fucking retard.

The difference is that you are a butthurt beta numale who goes off to masturbate to gympics of other men.

>used their upper body strength more than us on a regular basis
Slinging rocks and spears

The obvious way? When hunting. Try chucking a couple of spears without any upper-body strength. Not only will you be worse at throwing them precisely but any hit would also be weaker, which would mean that the animal might escape with a wound that won't allow you to just wait until it bleeds out.

Throwing spears, probably. Also carrying around animals they just killed.

>Can you explain to me how hunter gatherers used their upper body strength more than us on a regular basis?

Are you serious?
By carrying shit, by walking more than we do, by doing manual labour more than we do and being out in nature in general.
You are aware that you have to use your upper body strength for walking upright, right?