I still can't get over it. Now that Suicide Squad crushed the chance of Jared Leto being Jason Todd...

I still can't get over it. Now that Suicide Squad crushed the chance of Jared Leto being Jason Todd, I have been putting a lot of thought into this new Jared Leto portrayal of the Joker.

The biggest thing I can't get over is why they went this direction. Having a joker that is drastically different from the source material is fine for something like the Dark Knight trilogy. It works because the series was never going to go more than 3 movies. I can't grasp for the life of me why DC decided to be this experimental with their movie universe. This is the DC movie universe that all DC movies are going to take place in for the foreseeable future, why would they do something so nontraditional? This is now THE joker that we will be seeing on the big screen until who knows when.

Its jarring especially because so far everything character-wise in this movie universe has been pretty traditional. No character has been reinvented the way the Joker has.

What are your thoughts on the topic?

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>I can't grasp for the life of me why DC decided to be this experimental with their movie universe.
My thoughts exactly. It's so freaking stupid of them.

Lex Luthor too. Why go with something so different from what you'd expect?

Did they not realize that people were expecting the more definitive, iconic versions of these characters? Did they not realize that at some point, they'd need to have Eisenberg Lex and Leto Joker in the same room?

Its as if Marvel finally got the rights to doctor doom, and decided they wanted to use the cronenberg version from Fant4stic. Why experiment so hard with one character while the rest are so well adapted?

>No character has been reinvented the way the Joker has.
I would argue that Jonathan Kent was.

I like the idea of a completely new interpretation of the Joker. I don't mind that at all. The only problem is that the execution is so awful.

>No character has been reinvented the way the Joker has.
Lex Luthor

Why?
Everything is different in the MCU too

Lex Luthor too.

It's weird.

WHY would you go with that abomination?

Leto had no screen time and for what we seen it wasn't too bad. He could easy act more like the Joker later on. Ben said in a interview recently that after BvS, WB/DC is done with trying to change the characters and are going to bring them closer to how people know them as. So we have to wait and see how they handle the characters and villains in JL.

>Leto had no screen time and for what we seen it wasn't too bad
I disagree, I thought he was pretty damn bad, and this is coming from someone who likes Leto and was looking forward to his interpretation. The most I can say is that maybe Ayer just can't write worth a damn. While this Joker's personality might not have been fleshed out, his mannerisms and the way he speaks was enough to make me want him to get the hell off the screen even in just 8 short minutes.

And most of those changes have not been well received either user.

>Bob Kane Joker is based on 40s gangsters
>Romero based on this Joker
>Nicholson based on mob bosses from movies like the Godfather that were popular in the 70s and 80s.
>Leto Joker based on modern crime bosses

Zoot Suits and shit may look "classy" nowadays in a fedora kind of way because they're "retro," but they're what criminals wore at the time. Joker has always mirrored the fashion of crime at the time. I'm sure you grew up with Hamill, but Hamill's Joker was dessed for the time period BTAS was set in. Are we forgetting all the times Joker has changed costumes in the comics, like when he was David Bowie?

The outrage over this is the typical Fedora approach to anything deemed "lower class," like "I like all music but Rap and Country."

So I haven't seen the movie yet, but I keep seeing people saying he's not even in the thing for more than 8 minutes.

But how long in total would you say the scenes INVOLVING him are?

The only thing that compares in my mind is Iron Man 3's Mandarin, and at least Ben Kingsley was tremendously entertaining.

lol, no.

People applauded Zemo being s completely new character, and they're appluading acarol being given a complete rewrite.

Well, MCU Scott Lang Isn't 1:1 with the comics, but Paul Rudd portrays a likeable person who you enjoy seeing on screen. Same with, say, Starlord.

I could forgive any direction they took the character in, so long as he was like... Engaging to see on the screen. Like, For instance, IF THERE WAS A SINGLE COMEDIC ELEMENT TO THE CLOWN PRINCE OF CRIME!

But honestly, I don't blame Leto so much as the script, which doesn't really give the guy an opportunity to do anything particularly Joker-like. All he really does is try to get Harley out of jail... By swooping in on a helicopter. Or breaking into the jail with a group of armed thugs. No matter what choices you make with the character, those scenarios are so straight forward they don't really lend themselves to "hininks" or what have you.

The huge problem with this movie is that there are no long scenes. The first character speaks, then the other character responds, then the scene changes into something different. There's zero breathing room in this film.

Uh, anyway Joker's scenes are fairly short. Like nothing longer than a minute at a time I'd say.

>This is the DC movie universe that all DC movies are going to take place in for the foreseeable future
No, just the next 4 years until they give up.

Give me one way Leto is worse than Romero's bouncing and cackling or "Did you ever dance with the devil in the pale moonlight"

>and they're appluading acarol being given a complete rewrite.

Marvel good
DC bad
Marvel good
DC bad

I liked the villians plot in Civil War. But that wasn't Zemo.
And fuck Carol anyway.

Are you really surprised? They made Superman joyless and brooding. They made Batman into a mass murderer, they turned Wonder Woman into dyel chestlet. DC hates their own characters.

>Lex Luthor too.
>It's weird.
>WHY would you go with that abomination?

Doctor Manhattan reached out --
-- and twisted --
Jonathan Kent.

Doctor Manhattan is the reason the DCEU is without hope. Their version of CoIE will feature them fighting him and rebooting to a happier status-quo.

>Leto's performance may have been bad, but these guys were worse!

I'm judging him solely on his own merits and doing my best not to compare him to other iterations. His performance was bizarre and ridiculous and not in an interesting or entertaining way. He was just... unpleasant.

It's not like it's actually gonna be carol anyway, she died in AvX.

Now it's just the mess KSD created that everyone decided to build on.

>DC hates their own characters.

DC has nothing to do with the films you cunt

Fine, Warner hates their own characters. Are you happy?

But they weren't worse. None of them were bad. That's the point.

>he was unpleasant
What in god's name convinced you that the Joker was ever anything else?

Ya I dont think people necessarily hate change, it's just about the execution.

Exactly, the script fucked up Leto's chance to show his skill

Ya but the joker is supposed to be entertaining atleast

He was unpleasant in a bad way. He was bad. I did not like this Joker.

>Did they not realize that at some point, they'd need to have Eisenberg Lex and Leto Joker in the same room?

Oh man that's going to be amazing. I hope Snyder will still be in charge when this happens.

No he's not you autistic edgelord.

You're retarded, "crime bosses" didn't fucking go from dressing like BTAS Joker to dressing like Jared Leto Joker between 1995 and now.

I'm picturing it now and honestly, based off these interpretations, The Joker is the straight man of the two.

Don't give them ideas, user.

>Are you really surprised? They made Superman joyless and brooding.
I'm still so mad about this.

Perhaps our ONE and only shot at a DC cinematic universe, and they fuck it up by making Superman joyless and without any charisma, a Lois Lane who is similarly lacking any charisma and moxie, a shitty sperglorg Lex Luthor who comes off as more like the Joker than the actual Joker or the Riddler, a Wonder Woman who kills and has no cinematic presence, making Steppenwolf the first villain the JL face, not putting GL in the JL movie to begin with, and replacing Martian Manhunter with Cyborg.

Worst timeline.

Are you retarded? He's a character in a medium which is supposed to entertain. A main character at that. Main characters are supposed to be entertaining.

You can hate them, and be disgusted by them, but they are supposed to entertain you.

>WB/DC is done with trying to change the characters
>WB/DC gave up on originality and trying to tell new and unique stories and fall back to banality
You shouldn't be happy about this. Snyder brought us interesting movies that people can't stop talking about. Now we're going to get boring Marvel mush that you forget about by the time you drive home from the theater.

LITERALLY
DRESSES
AS
A
CLOWN

>he was unpleasant
>What in god's name convinced you that the Joker was ever anything else?

You're an idiot who's conflating pleasantness for other characters in universe with pleasantness for viewers watching from outside the story's universe. Obviously it wouldn't be pleasant to actually be around fictional villains. That doesn't mean fictional villains are supposed to be unpleasant for nonfictional people to watch.

>BTAS took place in the 90s

wow its time to stop posting

Fuck right off with this nonsense.

Frankly, if "originality" in this context means giving us wildly different interpretations of iconic characters that have no basis in the source material, then I don't want that sort of "originality" in these movies.

I want the best and coolest versions of these characters. Correction: I want interpretations of these characters inspired by their best versions in other media. Give me a post-Crisis, All Star Superman-inspired Superman. Give me a DCAU Lois Lane. Give me a DCAU Lex Luthor. Give me WW: Earth One Wonder Woman. And so on.

Honestly, I don't want dour Superman. I don't want 'eccentric' nerd Lex Luthor.

I want versions of these characters that are more true to the source material.

BTAS depicted personal computers and was canonically linked as being the time period that leads into Batman Beyond, which was based further in the future than the real world present year.

>crushed the chance of Jared Leto being Jason Todd,
The only people that believed that was even remotely possible are those that think Snyder is a magnificent writer.
It's not even at the level of bad fanfiction, it's beyond full retard.

batman.wikia.com/wiki/Batman_Beyond

>In 2040, Terry McGinnis (born on August 18, 2023) is an athletic sixteen year-old high school student, and reformed troublemaker with a deeply ingrained sense of personal justice.

If Bruce Wayne was an elderly man in 2040 then BTAS wasn't set in a time period earlier than the 90s.

>Having a joker that is drastically different from the source material

There's no definitive source material for the character to differ drastically from. The character's been around for over 75 years. He's been rebooted, reinterpreted, retconned and re-written by dozens of teams of people. He's had one-offs and what-ifs and alternate reality versions of himself. He's been in half a dozen different movie series, and just as many cartoons. He's had tattoos before. He's been a gangster before. He's been everything from a broad-shouldered effeminate tranny to a dradlocked thug.

There are plenty of things you could trash this version of the character for, but differing from the source material is a non-argument.

This reminds me of how animated joker made me actually laugh several times. Same goes with other interpretations. Leto made me laugh but not in a good way.

Do we really need to do the list of cinematic portrayals of despicable human beings that were completely enthralling and entertaining to watch? Y'know, Hannibal Lecter, Norman Bates? Menacing, horrendous figures who were nevertheless completely charismatic and enthralling? Kind of like what the joker could have been, and has been in previous adaptations?

Nice buzzwords, faggot.

i just realized these two live on the same planet, at the same time.

god a team up would be so fucking awesome in the movies, it might awful enough to work.

I liked it, I think. Kind of hard to say for sure given how limited his actual screen time was, but I liked the direction it seemed to be going. Could live without the Harley romance, but if turning them into some kind of mutually destructive Sid and Nancy couple keeps the DCEU from going the misunderstood woobie anti-hero route with her, then it's a sacrifice worth making.

>the sheer power of their individual suck is enough to cancel each other out to create something amazing
Could work, honestly.

it could and there suppose to team up any ways, sooner or later lex thinks hes a good idea.

maybe there already working together and it'll be shown in flash backs or some thing stupid.

Their master plan would have to be to get a tornado to fling sharks at the Justice League.

Honestly m8, posting that picture right there just makes me upset that we'll never get that, but in live-action.

It's not only him.
They fucked up Lex too, in a similar manner even.

Joker was "updated" to be a yolo swag metrosexual that would be at home on snapchat/instagram turning up crazy filters and swapping his face with his victim or something stupid like that.

Meanwhile Lex was "updated" to be an even more autistic Zuckerberg type who acts like he'd shoot up a school if he wasn't a multi-billionaire.

The theme is that they know villains can be hyped up like that to the younger audience that does not read comic books (or even books in general) and are not familar with anything if it's not on social media basically.

The saddest thing is we won't see the joker done properly for a while now that they're making sequels starring this Macauley Culkin lookin motherfucker

they exist in the same universe, doesn't SS take place after bvs?

i have high hopes, any ways lex is going to piss batman off sooner or later.

No, what's even sadder is that we're stuck with yet ANOTHER shitty live-action Lex.

If we don't count Michael Rosenbaum, there's never truly been a great live-action Lex. At least you Jokerfags have the Heath Ledger version.

>they exist in the same universe, doesn't SS take place after bvs?
I mean we'll never get a live-action version of DCAU Luthor teaming up with a live-action version of DCAU Joker.

If anyone thought that the Joker was possibly Jason Todd, they are stupid.

>heath ledger
>good

no

Ledger's Joker was very good, m8.

Not quite the same Joker as the one in the mainstream comics or the DCAU, but he totally owned that role and made it his. It's iconic, m8.

Heath Ledger was clearly good, you have shit taste.

How to fix:
>Reveal Willem Dafoe Joker in Batfleck movie.
>Reveal Jim Carrey Joker in Justice League
>Reveal there are three Jokers in Batfleck sequel. Have Batman utterly destroy Macauley Culkin Joker. Jerome from Gotham replaces him.,Jack Nicholson Joker revealed to be the 'Joker of Gotham' entity.

So what was Leto/Joker's jar of piss moment?

It's my favorite live action adaptation of Anarky. I still don't get why they changed his costume so much though.

Alright, if we turned Joker into a modern crime boss, what would he look like? Is there no other route but the Riff-Raff approach?

>he wasn't anything like Joker but he was good

Leto was good and still managed to be true to comics Joker.

Fucking this. You know what Leto Joker looks like? A NIGGER. Joker should NOT look like a NIGGER. Joker should not have "swag." Joker should have class, like a real man.

Joker being in love with Harley makes me want to punch puppies. That's how I feel about the direction DC is headed.

:^)

In what way(s) were Ledger's Joker unlike the comic book version, other than the face paint? And him being more deadpan towards his first appearances?

In what ways were Leto's Joker closer to the comic book version?

I didn't like Leto's Joker at all but fuck off, man.

Christ.

So much this. What made them think anybody would ever want to see some wattymelon munching jiggaboo instead of the mother fucking joker ill never understand. Its like DC wants to kill their franchise

why are you talking to yourself?

Leto's Joker had no "plan."

There isn't much to go off in the movie, beyond him trying to sell off a lap dance from his girl, then killing the dude when he isn't comfortable with it. Off screen, he mailed random shit to the actors for whatever reason. There's no plan there, other than "it'll make people uneasy."
Joker did the shit he did in previous movies because there was an overall plan, which more or less "justifies" his antics.

Nothing of the sort really in the movie, beyond he clearly should have been in a mental institution instead of running a strip joint, nor his actions outside of the movie and involving the actors. It's just being willfully obtuse.

A better idea would to be is essentially doing what Mask of the Phantasm did, just instead make him a big player mafia dude right from the start, and then the Batman encounter that ended in chemical bath that fucked his look up. Would have always had his mental-state problems, but adopts some new attire/flair after his accident and continues on with his usual crime-boss routine, just with a newly focused motif.

>beyond him trying to sell off a lap dance from his girl, then killing the dude when he isn't comfortable with it.

Did you even watch this scene? How did this go over your head? Why are you trying to insert your fetish into it?

Yes. The distinction is actually important

It really feels like, with all these movies, that WB just plain doesn't WANT to do it. Like they're reluctant to even TRY at all.

Of course they're reluctant to even try. These are the same people who sat on their asses while Marvel was busy establishing their cinematic universe. These are the same people who said a WW movie couldn't work after the success of GotG. They're ONLY really doing a cinematic universe because everyone and their mom wanted them to. That's how stupid they are.

People pointed out that they were sitting on a potential goldmine, if we're just looking at this from a purely commercial point of view. And yet they were super reluctant to get things done. And not only that, it's like they're half-ashamed of their own characters anyway. It's ridiculous.

>they'd need to have Eisenberg Lex and Leto Joker in the same room?
Oh god

Ohhhhhh I didn't even think about this shit. It's gonna be one big cringe-off

>Are you really surprised? They made Superman joyless and brooding. They made Batman into a mass murderer, they turned Wonder Woman into dyel chestlet. DC hates their own characters.

Marvel turned everyone into Spider-Man since they didn't have him, now that they do they have to make Spider-Man the Degrassi of their universe, and they turned every villain into OCs because they want to appeal to normies rather than comic book fans

Marvel has no faith in their characters

The best Joker will most likely always be Hamill because it's a cartoon and thus can blend the best of Joker into a single entity

Ledger and Nickelson are both on opposite ends of the Joker, Romero is Golden age camp - he gets a pass

Leto did not get enough screentime to make a fair judgement - though i will admit he had presence. You felt on edge when he was on screen because you really didn't know what he'll do

>hurr honka honka and cuckold
If you didn't get the implication of the scene because go back to grade school

>>hurr honka honka and cuckold
>If you didn't get the implication of the scene because go back to grade school

Memes ruin people man. People in the last thread for the new Transformers movie were saying HURRR EVIL COP CAR, PANDERING TO BLACK LIVES MATTER

These idiots don't realize the character has been an evil cop car since the first movie, long before BLM was a thing. People get obsessed with memes to the point where they are complete morons and all they see are memes in anything

Kojima is God

HONKA
O
N
K
A

Come on, Nicholson practically done it already. Twice if you re-use his performance in The Departed.

Fuck off mate , I'd rather enjoy a movie and then not have much to say then remember a movie because of how many flaws it had.

Maybe people don't feel the need to talk about marvel movies because here's only so many ways one can say "that was good,I liked that"

>and they turned every villain into OCs
At least their OCs are entertaining, DCs so far are autistic or edgy,aside from Zod who is pretty hard to fuck up.

the Zemo from comic books was never going to be apart of the MCU, at least he is now.

>At least their OCs are entertaining
They're really not. But I get it, you're a 19 year old girl who just got introduced to "capeshit" when you saw Avengers...yeah, you're kinda cancer hun

>The biggest thing I can't get over is why they went this direction
>I can't grasp for the life of me why DC decided to be this experimental with their movie universe. This is the DC movie universe that all DC movies are going to take place in for the foreseeable future, why would they do something so nontraditional?

More experimental and nontraditional than making him corrupted robin?

that would be cancer incarnate.

Why did they do the same thing with Lex? WB has their head up their ass.

Not to mention I don't even think he IS unique from other comic versions of him.

They were probably expecting something akin to the Michael Bay Transformers movie where people are fine with the changes because nobody ever gave a shit about those characters beyond autistic nerds.

But they forgot that Superman and Batman have alot more people aware of their lore than Transformers.

>It works because the series was never going to go more than 3 movies.

Good thing the DCEU won't go beyond 4 movies.

You can tell in bats vs supes they were gonna do mess up flash. Looks like they want to be like marvel and be crazy fun.

Hey, Returns was a shit movie, but I thought Kevin Spacey as Luthor was great casting.

He was great casting but had to play Hackman Lex instead of his own thing.

Similarly, Routh literally competed with Cavill over playing a year one Supes but was saddled with an older Reeve role.

Joker worked in TDK because of the "magic trick" where he jammed a pencil through that guy's brain.

It was brutal, unexpected, and funny in a horrible way, the way the Joker is supposed to be.

You can give the Joker as many ugly tattoos as you want, but you have to have him tell at least a couple of jokes.

>Marvel turned everyone into Spider-Man
Bet you haven't even read a Spider-Man comic, or even a marvel comic for that matter.