He honestly didn't deserve what happened to him

He honestly didn't deserve what happened to him.

Why did they have his wife be from some big family in Volantis and then do nothing with that?

yes he fucking did. He was a moron.

>He deserved to have his remaining family members+army murdered.
>He deserved to have his head chopped off and replaced with the decapitated head of his direwolf while being paraded about all because he was a moron.

I wonder what autists like you deserve?

It is rumored she was a Lannister honeypot, and thats who she kept writing all the letters too.

>reddit: the post

Only a woman wouldn't be able to understand how breaking oaths is wrong. Plug up your gaping hole before you come back. Robb deserved everything he got.

Yes he did. He made so many bad decisions, one right after the other, and when you keep making bad decisions there are consequences. Although to be fair, the moment that really doomed him (Stannis killing Renly) was out of his control.

Far better KITN that Jon Snerrr

You say it like the Frey's were honorable in dealing with him. The Red Wedding is something only a woman would do.

He honestly wasn't a good character.

Has maybe 3 scenes in first season where he isn't the focus, then becomes the leader of an army in the second season with too much focus, only to be thrown to the dogs in the third.

It's the plague of the GoT series. Too many character suddenly thrust into importance only to be murdered the next. They are given no chance for building any depth of character besides having sex.

he was only a kid

In the book? Yes, he didn't. In the show? Hell yes he did.

True. Even with all the characters being aged up in the show, he couldn't have been more than about 20 years old. But he still made bad decisions.

In the books, Robb isn't that important of a character, he doesn't even get a single PoV chapter. The problem is like you're saying, Season 2 focused so strongly on him and when he got taken out in Season 3 it felt abrupt and unfair, as opposed to in the books where most people thought "yeah, he had it coming".

Robb was partially the victim of things outside of his control

>being declared King in the North to begin with (not his idea)
>the Vale refusing to help him
>Stannis killing Renly
>the Tyrells happily joining up with the Lannisters after that
>Catelyn freeing Jamie

But mostly the victim of his own bad decisions
>Accepting the title of King in the North
>Trusting Theon
>Killing Lord Karstark
>Not retreating North when it was basically over already (I think he tries in the books, but we're talking about the show)
>And of course, breaking his promise to the Freys

You could also argue that he didn't do enough to work together with Stannis, but I don't remember how the show handles that.

That Frey girl he could have married was a lot hotter than the one he did marry. He was an idiot.

robb is objectively the worst thrones character

The only thing I disagree with, is him heading north when it was basically over. Since the Riverlands swore allegiance to him, he couldn't abandon them to the Lannisters. It was a fucked up situation and ultimately he was a boy playing a game for men.

I liked Robb's character, but he is sandwiched between two more important characters in Ned and Jon. So he is always going to get overshadowed by the two of them.

It was abandon them to save the north or stay and lose both because there is no way to protect the riverlands. The Riverlands is the dumbest fucking kingdom, by all rights it shouldn't exist. Zero natural defenses, it's like the Poland of Westeros.

He was fucking great at playing the game with the men.
He made the same mistake as his father: he was too honorable. Instead of getting some dumb whore pregnant and fucking off he had to go and marry her.

He lost before breaking the wedding vow though.

Because his cunt of a mother freed their most powerful bargaining chip.
With Jaime in their hands they had a decent position.

You what faggot? Have you even read the books? Robb is not that important?
He is one of the major players during book 2 and 3. He doesn't have a POV because Martin didn't want to tell the readers how he is managing to even every single battle. He wanted us to feel it from the lannisters pov.
There are so many mysteries still around Robb like his last will and did he actually warg into greywind during battles and everything.
Not to mention he is the first king in the north since targ rule started.

burn the coal

Did we ever found out who that Frey girl was?

Not really. They were facing the Tyrells (largest army), the Lannisters (most money), the Ironborn, half the Baratheons, and likely the Vale, who would jump in on whatever side was about to win. It was over. Jamie or not, he had no chance of winning the war, best he could do would be to trade for Sansa, retreat north, and hold them off until winter starts (at which point they're all dead anyway).

You're making it seem like it was everyone against them when it was everyone against everyone, that's why it was called Battle of the Five Kings.
The Vale was neutral, half the Baratheons were under Stannis rule that was hostile to both Lannister and Stark, and the other half lost its ruler and was a disorganized mess with terrible lords with no war experience nor talent.
Realistically it was him + Tully versus the Tyrell and the Lannisters, with a strong opportunity for the Vale to join them later if they project a strong enough image.

>with a strong opportunity for the Vale to join them later if they project a strong enough image.
Actually scratch that, I forgot that the Vale was neutral because Lysa was still alive and was a paranoic cunt.
The Vale wouldn't do absolutely anything one war or the other.

Where is my Lady Stoneheart DnD? What the fuck man.

He broke a marriage vow and then had the audacity to come to those same people for help. Walder Frey was an asshole but Robb deserved something.

>Realistically it was him + Tully versus the Tyrell and the Lannisters, with a strong opportunity for the Vale to join them later if they project a strong enough image.

Still not enough. The Tyrells have the biggest army, the Lannisters have the illusion of all the cash (so they can afford to raise huge armies and say "we'll pay you later"). It also helps that the Reach has most of the food, and the North has been busy fighting when they needed to be harvesting. Robb can't afford to drag out the conflict or his whole kingdom will starve when winter starts.

oathbreakers deserve no honor. go dilate your man pussy.

jon snow vs robb stark

who'd win

No, but he honestly should have seen it coming.

Jon, even if he dies he'll come back to life.

Don't see how Robb can kill Azor Ahai.

You're just making assumptions here, in both the books and the show he's shown to be extremely competent, to the point he gets the upper hand through tactical superiority.
Wars aren't won on supplies and men alone, history has shown this countless of times, all he needed was to stop being such a fucking retard like his father and send his mother home where she belongs.

Well, Jon Snow has the magic sword, so...

Would Frey had kept his promise if Robb had married his daughter? I mean the old cunt was pretty late during Robert's Rebellion so I just had a feeling he would do the same if Robb hadn't broken the oath.

>to the point he gets the upper hand through tactical superiority
Against the Lannisters alone. He never has to fight the Lannisters and the Tyrells simultaneously. Tactical brilliance only gets you so far, even Napoleon ran out of men and supplies eventually.

Frey would have let Robb cross in the show. But yeah, I'm not sure how enthusiastic he would have been following Robb into battle as part of a war where they're now dramatically outnumbered. I think the Red Wedding would have just been the Red Battle instead, Boltons and Freys turning on the Starks at Casterly Rock.

Napoleon ran out of men and supplies because he decided to invade Russia while having troubles keeping Spain under check, before that he outperformed coalition after coalition of European powers in the most unfavorable positions.
Don't forget that the Tyrells aren't an unconditional ally to the Lannisters, they want the throne above all, ideally they'd rather have the Lannister and the Stark kill each other off.

i mean as in who's the superior fighter, who'd kill the other one first?

i don't care if jon would come back to life or if he has a valyring steel sword longclaw... would robb kill him in single combat before he'd kill robb?

robb seemed to be superior in the first seasons, especially season 1

Yes he did, he was a walking disaster at anything off the battlefield

I can see this happening. The Freys were never to be trusted nor counted on. You can say Robb was doomed from the very beginning. Even if he had decided to marry the girl and keep the oath he would have been betrayed sooner or later.

For a while maybe. Once it became clear that Robb wasn't going to be on the winning side he would have probably taken up the Lannister offer anyway

Old bastard knew how to keep his House alive

In a one-on-one they'd be pretty evenly matched, since they were both trained by the same guy and have the same build.

By the later seasons Jon probably pulls ahead due to actual combat experience

True, but Napoleon was starting out with the biggest country and largest army to begin with, and picked up plenty of allies along the way (iirc he had all of Italy and most of what's modern-day Germany on his side by 1805). His position wasn't all that unfavorable, he had a lot to work with and he was brilliant to boot.

>the Tyrells aren't an unconditional ally to the Lannisters, they want the throne above all, ideally they'd rather have the Lannister and the Stark kill each other off.
Good point. Kind of a shame that Robb had to promise to marry the Frey girl, he could have made Margaery an offer.

>By the later seasons Jon probably pulls ahead due to actual combat experience
Robb still has more combat experience even if you count seasons 4 to 7, doesn't he?

Robb had a good goal though probably the most relate able, I mean damn his dad got imprisoned and then killed so you can't blame him for going to war and then even marching down south as a northerner to firstly free Ned and then later on get revenge for his death can't blame him desu but he did make questionable decisions he just needed a loyal smart guy at all the political shit at his side because he made a great general.

since jaime lost his hand and barry selmy died who's the best swordsman alive in the tv series? jon? bronn? undead mountain?

why did robb move south when nobody is ever in any position to invade the north?

Robb has been in more battles, but as the King in the North I doubt he actually took part in too much fighting himself

Jaime cutting his way towards him before his capture was probably the closest he got to a worthy fight

Jon on the other hand had little choice in personally fighting as he has pretty much always been in defensive battles and heavily outnumbered

The Hound or the Mountain, followed by the likes of Brienne, Bronn and Thoros (and not counting people like Randyll Tarly who we haven't really seen much of, but is probably more of a general anyway)

Brienne, obviously. Though I do think she won against Hound only on a technicality.

Undead Mountain is more of a force of nature than a swordsman at this point. He just kills people with his bare hands.

Robb went south to free his father and his sisters.

The Undead Mountain

>He honestly didn't deserve what happened to him.
Yeah that's kinda the point.

His biggest mistake was not bending the knee to Stannis. Why the hell did they decide to become independent? Ned was honourable and he backed Stannis so why did Robb decide to play the whole KeenindaNorf if you was honourable as well?

>Fuck random brownhealslut
>break off marriage agreement with powerful house
>miss out on THIS

Robb Stark, everyone

Couple reasons:

1. Renly had half the Baratheons and all the Tyrells on his side. Backing Stannis wasn't a good idea since they're both in a perfect position to attack the Riverlands.
2. He's a kid, grieving for his father, desperate for revenge, and men he's respected all his life are shouting that he should be king.

Although I do think that if Stannis had won, Robb would have bent the knee, especially with Jon telling him about the White Walkers. Everyone would be much happier if Tyrion had just run away from King's Landing instead of saving it.

Nigga how would Robb know that Walder had this ready for him, he just assumed he would have got a ugly cunt which we can all agree would not have been nice.

Robb's dumbest mistake was probably making that marriage pact to begin with. A bridge isn't worth that, marry her off to Edmure or Theon. Hell, marry one of the sons off to Arya.

He still should have joined Stannis because he is the rightful king, that's what Ned would have done.

he went back on his word. he lacked honour

Also why exactly did Robb's army had to pass that bridge? Are you telling me it's the only bridge in the entire river? Couldn't they just build some dugout boats? It's pretty easy to do when you have thousands of soldiers at your disposal.

thats their intentions. they dont want you to know whos gonna get killed next, its good that it shakes up the cast rather than following the same group of mary sues

If he tried to join Stannis outright he'd lose, anyone could see that. That's why he sent his mother down to the Stormlands to try to broker an alliance between the Baratheon brothers.

The Lannisters were rampaging across the Riverlands, Robb had to pass quickly to stop them. He didn't have time to build boats or another bridge.

Because he would be invading a land he had no military access to, effectively declaring war on the Freys.

>trying to win a war against the Lannisters
>achieves some good tactical wins against their armies
>needs to cross a bridge to bring themselves one step closer to victory
>fucks around doing nothing for too long while flirting with a commoner, while the Lannisters are trying to recover
>eventually his men turn on him since he lost sight of his goals


To say he didn't "deserve" it is meaningless. His death was a tragic consequence of his past actions.

the whole point of them using the bridge was to save time. they could have went all the way around and avoided the twins all together, but they were pressed for time.

The Riverlands belong to the Tullys. Robb has their permission, he can go wherever he wants. The problem is the Twins themselves, the Freys could be dicks about it and stop him from crossing the bridge.

Robb and Ned were good characters for me because, alongside Bobby B. they were men with the the values and ideals of a previous ages in a new world. It represented the magic returning to Westeros with the death of the honourable traditionalist characters, not because of them being poor at warfare but due to them being unyielding in the change of old into the new world.
The last war was won by men and their blades, whereas this war is fought with different methods.

that's just my take on it anyway

Hannibal was also in a hurry when he was in the Alps and in between a Roman army and mobs of Gauls and managed to build boats for his entire army to cross a river in just a few days. He even had elephants to transport and Robb couldn't somehow not find the time to build boats?
Why would just passing without permission mean declaration of war? Multiple times armies have passed through neutral lands (and sometimes even pillaged said lands) to go and fight somewhere else but it didn't conclude to a war. This isn't some video game.

Also I thought the Freys were the vassals of the Tullies who were Robb's allies so it wouldn't really be a problem "trespassing" on his land

This whole thing seems like bullshit but then again what did I expect from that fat hack.

He may not have but Catlyn did. Pretty much everything that happened to the Starks was set in motion by her kidnapping Tyrion despite Ned directly telling her not too

The Trident is a huge river, there's not gonna be another bridge which can hold the combined weight of 100s of men for 100s of miles in either direction. Plus Walder Frey gave him hundreds or maybe thousands more fighting men.

To make the marriage seem even more unacceptable to his allies?

It does seem like a completely pointless change.

...

He literally could choose any Frey girl he wanted
That was part of the agreement

>In the books, Robb isn't that important of a character, he doesn't even get a single PoV chapter
Robb doesn't have PoV for thematic reasons, but he is extremely important in th ACoK and SoS

you never made an oath in your life

Yes, he did. He's a race mixing, naive moron. He could of just married that damn ham planet just for the allegiance and have a mistress on the side, but no he wants to marry pajeet's cousin twice removed because much love. Dumbass that his whole family killed for nothing.

Stannis wont have let him keep the King in the North title.

>Robb has been in more battles, but as the King in the North I doubt he actually took part in too much fighting himself
It's literally stated in the books that Robb fought in the battles himself.

jamey only killed 10 men in the first battle

I can smash double that in the first skirmish on mountainblade
jamey confirmed fucking scrub

tbf he was like 16

if you ever experience teen love you would understand

It's not about deserving something. Bad things happen to people regardless of whether they were responsible or not. Thats life. Robb did hold some responsibility for his actions, but there are many who didn't, such as his unborn child and his men, yet the still suffered.

It's a shame that the show has made a huge departure from that mentality, it's all about revenge and the heroes one-upping the villains now.

All the Frey girls were used goods by Wader Frey

the gauls weren't hannibals enemies
in fact at cannae lots of gallic allies took part in the battle and hannibal being the tactical god that he was ensured that like 90% of the casualties on his side were gauls and not carthiginians

check the wiki

They figured that having a king/royal hook up with an unconnected foreigner working as a field nurse was one thing, but for her to be lowborn would be going too far into Disney territory.

>worthy fight

I loved Robb but he wouldn't stand a chance 1v1 against prime Jaime.

Not that guy, but weren't at first some gauls tried to killed Hannibal and his men until they later decided to join them?

There's any number of plausible decisions he could have made if the author hadn't made him decide to made the decisions which lead to his loss.

idk desu I only knew about the battle itself

The hound/mountain realistically/Maybe Jorah

But Brienne is the best fighter in the entire GoT World now, Anyone who thinks any character in the entire tv series will ever beat her in a fight in the show is kidding themselves.

that sword is so dull he deserved to die.

The Starks will always be in peril so long as they are so quick to trust people, expecting mutual honor.

>no mary sues
>dany mother of plot armor

Thats what I was trying to say. Robb was unlikely to have been frontline in his battles, so the most he probably fought against were generic Lannister soldiers only.

>instead of honoring his vow to marry a Frey girl he decides to abandon everything for some field nurse
Robb got what was coming to him, even some of the Frey girls weren't bad looking and he had his choice too. He wasn't fit to rule.

Yeah but Walder never showed her until after Robb had already married someone else, he basically trolled him.

That was the point. Now they just kill off characters to save money.

carthage fucking shits