>Bruce is saying he's trying something better than the approach he had before. not that duke is better than robin! duke WAS a robin already in W.A.R. Bruce has realized (across the books) that he needs full allies, not a sidekick. Instead of training Duke to be his side-man, he's training him to be his own hero As he did with each Robin before Duke when he or she was ready to move on. He's saying, I'm altering my thinking - I need full grown heroes beside me. Damian has made him proud. Tim, Dick, all of them. He's tweaking the program to be more about his trainee figuring out who he/she is as a hero in full than training them at his side
Bentley Perry
Sounds like splitting hairs to me. Did he respond to the much larger fan criticism that the Batfamily is too large as it is?
Nicholas Flores
Of course he didn't.
Gavin Brooks
I know that everyone on Sup Forums loves to say that (and we have threads on it at least once a week) But I think that the Bat family was perfect in 2011, and the only reason people say it's too big now is because it's been massively mishandled since the New 52.
Ian Hughes
That was pretty obvious but I am not surprised that Robin-fags got so triggered.
And these people with such poor reading comprehension have the courage to criticize Snyder's writing and his run. Is pretty hilarious in a sad way.
Why should he? Did Morrison had to answer to the fans when he made Batman Inc. or decided to create yet another Robin?
Brody White
what did everyone think of the first ASB issue?
Joshua Campbell
He's probably smart not to. A new robin, new ally or protege every once in a while keeps the formula rotating instead of stale, and while people may grumble, it's probably better to keep doing that than rest on your laurels and just use characters people have seen before again. The side effect of that is that the "family" gets bigger and bigger, but the thing is, you can bring those guys in or out as needed, it's not like they all have to hang around the Batcave all the time.
Hudson Rodriguez
>Did Morrison had to answer It's have not had. And yes, Batman Inc and Damien were held to similar criticism.
Brayden Davis
Weren't people pissed at Morrison because Tim got replaced?
William Edwards
>it's probably better to keep doing that than rest on your laurels and just use characters people have seen before again.
But why? 90% of the most popular characters are the ones that have been around for ages. People still want to read about them, there's no need to change it.
Noah Bennett
People were rolling their eyes at the idea of a league of Batmans all around the world.
Kayden Allen
Absolutely.
They weren't happy either when Damian beat the shit out of Tim.
Evan Fisher
I honestly really disliked it. Much worse than what Snyder usually puts out; at least in the main title he usually starts out strong.
Christopher Ward
I agree. If we had great Batfamily stories, the complaints about its size would be much less frequent and vitriolic. But that's what happens when you place someone who hates the family as the lead writer, I suppose.
Luis Taylor
>Why should he? Did Morrison had to answer to the fans when he made Batman Inc. or decided to create yet another Robin? Batman Inc at least means not all of them have to be in Gotham
Noah Fisher
It was alright. Not sure where he's going with this, and it has become one of those "where the hell does this fit in with the other Batman comics" comic. But it was good enough.
Henry Sanders
you get the best selling Batman's run in ages and one of the most critically acclaimed? looks like a good idea then
Asher Phillips
>nightwing >globetrotting adventure >Batgirl >off in china >Tim >soon to be dead the newbies and jason are the only ones in gotham for now
Jose Ward
Shitty characterizations across the board, Snyder's patented overblown monologues and wiki dumps in full effect, the Duke push is a minor nuisance in comparison to all the other shitty things about the book. JRJR's art looked good though which is a nice change, I like his Two-Face.
>tfw I will still probably end up reading it for all the different artists who've signed on to do an issue/arc
Jackson Gutierrez
They are all coming back for the Monster arc
Evan Sanders
>Orpheus >Onyx >Batwing >The other Batwing >Azrael
Black people who aren't Killer Croc don't tend to last long in Gotham. Will Duke finally be the one to stick?
Ethan Cox
better than king's first 2 issues desu senpai
Cameron Peterson
Yeah, if you're a DC exec maybe. If you actually like reading comics, not so much.
Hudson Campbell
You realize most of those people went away because people were like "The Bat-Family's too big as it is" just like people are doing now, right?
Also, neither of the Batwings actually in Gotham. They were in Africaland or wherever. I don't read comics and I don't do geography.
Nathan Foster
>Tim >soon to be dead
It's really obvious that Rich was either completely wrong, or his anonymous source that he met at a convention bar was referring to the Tim in the Beyondverse. Tynion is the biggest 90sfag in the world, and has probably been dying to write Tim along with Cass and Steph for ages. He's not going to kill him off.
Justin Reed
If he hates Batman's family so much why does Snyder want to keep writing Batman? Seriously, he doesn't like Damian, Dick (he even had Bruce punch him), Todd, Drake, Babs, or Alfred (seriously? Having Al shoot Bruce with a missle? Really?) or Batwing (tho tbqf no one cares about him anymore).
So why does he write Batman so much?
Why not try to write Swamp-Thing or Superman again? I think the higher-ups would let him.
Lincoln Thompson
I know it's my fault, but I never read any of the press leading up to it's release; I assumed it was just a continuation of Jim Lee's ASBR.
So, yeah, I'm kinda bummed. It's whatever so far.
Ian Wilson
>Also, neither of the Batwings actually in Gotham. They were in Africaland or wherever. I don't read comics and I don't do geography. the second one was Lucius Fox's son Luke
Angel Russell
He likes his OCs, so he just writes Harper and Duke into the roles of Batman's partners rather than any of the older characters.
Angel Hughes
You know those people that don't read comics but keep posting their ideas for a Batman/Superman/etc movie or some sort of redesign/rebooted origin? That's Scott Snyder. He watched the movies and that's the kind of Batman he likes and wants to write. That's why he hates the family so much, he still thinks of Robin and Batgirl as the versions from the 90s movies.
Wyatt Cooper
I know this will sound strange to people here because they don't actually like Batman but only care about the OC around him and Grayson's fanservice, but you can have great stories with Batman and other iconic characters like Alfred, Gordon etc. without needing the bloated bat-family around
Ryan Williams
Batman DOES need a Robin Snyder, you dumb ugly faggot.
Literally every time he tries to go without one he goes nuts and starts believing that he's a real IRL bat creature.
David Martin
>Dick (he even had Bruce punch him)
Snyder was a top tier Dickbats writer, tho.
Zachary Ortiz
he just needs a partner. which he has. it doesn't need to be a sidekick
Jack Anderson
So why didn't Snyder write one?
Adam Peterson
It is possible to write a good Batman arc without bringing in the Bat family, but Snyder didn't write one.
Lucas White
But he's fucking using Duke so obviously he's not trying to do that. I wouldn't call Duke an iconic character, user.
Brandon Hughes
I thought it was kind of fun. Still not "good" but Snyder doesn't seem to be taking himself as seriously as he usually does.
Eli Lopez
I'm not sure my nigga, covers and solicits like these are very suggestive.
>"Rise Of The Batmen" part 7! This epic concludes with a battle against the Colony that will change Batman's world forever-and in a way you'd never expect! Whether they win or lose, they've already lost...
Jaxson Adams
zero year was pretty good
Jack Perez
Man, Duke's new costume is really ugly.
Kevin Peterson
>everyone complains about Snyder's characters that aren't worse than Cass, Steph or the other many human characters when first introduced >no one says a thing about King introducing Superman-level characters in Gotham and planning to turn Gotham Girl into a regular character
the bias is real
Benjamin Baker
>Dick (he even had Bruce punch him) You know King made Bruce out to be an asshole in Nightwing issue, must mean he hates Bruce. I know this is Sup Forums and most of you are as anti Snyder because various degrees of not muh but goddamn some of the times you sound like absolute retards.
Ayden Jones
Because they're kind of interesting so far.
Harper was always annoying, and Duke is just "My Totally Original Character Blobin".
Daniel Allen
>Because they're kind of interesting so far. >crazy superman >interesting god the bias is real
Noah Taylor
This. Shilling Dick as the nice one and Bruce as the "asshole" has been a meme since the Dixon era
Cooper James
King isn't trying to replace a character people already like with a shitty OC
Aiden Perez
Didn't bruce only punch him to get a transmitter or something out of one of dick's teeth?
Jaxon Miller
Oh hey remember that time Geoff Johns didn't let Green Arrow join the Justice League? Damn Johns hates Green Arrow. Oh and that time Damian beat the shit out of Tim in Morrison's Batman, damn why does Morrison hate Tim?
Jackson Johnson
Who did Snyder replace? And don't say Robin because they clearly moved Damian away so they could milk his popularity with 3 different books
Liam Rogers
neither is snyder you fucking retard
Jose Brooks
but Johns does hate heroes without superpowers
Isaiah Russell
Not yet. But King is also the guy that created Kalista that replaced OG members of Omega Men or created Vision. You don't know what he'll end up doing 2 years from now.
Angel Ross
Green Arrow went on to join the JLA, Johns has said he'll write Ollie like Adams. He's been shilling GA/Canary and shitting on Arrow. Fucking frogposter.
David Sanchez
You do realise that user was making fun of reactionaries right
Caleb Perry
Snyder is trying to push his character.
The way DC changed their rules for rights to characters means that legacy characters (a new Robin) are owned by the creator of the character the legacy belongs to. So if you make a new Robin, even if it's a fast-talking Hispanic speedster, you don't own it.
Snyder is trying to get around that by introducing Bluebird and Blackbird. Unfortunately (for him) Harper didn't take off so he's trying to push Duke.
Camden Edwards
Not anymore, his push failed. Damian was too popular to be replaced
Matthew Nguyen
>Snyder is trying to get around that by introducing Bluebird and Blackbird. Factually incorrect since he wanted to make Duke a Robin but WB put down the law. >Unfortunately (for him) Harper didn't take off so he's trying to push Duke. Also incorrect kind of, he never seemed that interested in Harper, she's very much Tynion's waifu.
Alexander Adams
It'd be like trying to replace Tim in the mid 90s, at the height of his popularity.
It was a stupid move, Damian's been Robin since 2009, steadily built up a fanbase. Trying to give him a new partner so soon was basically just shooting himself in the foot.
It was almost as stupid as Steph as Robin.
Nathaniel Lopez
Harper was only created because editorial didn't let him use Cass
Also Harper is going to be in Tec in the near future
Nolan Rivera
So Snyder is DC Slott?
David Powell
The stupidest thing about Steph as Robin was that they didn't even give her a chance with those whopping two issues. Fucking Alfred's probably been Robin for more issues than that.
Jaxon Jones
>It was almost as stupid as Steph as Robin. Steph was only Robin because they were going to kill her off and someone (I actually forget exactly who) wanted to give her at least one good thing before they did.
Luke Thomas
>harper will be in the tec
D R O P P E D R O P P E D
Ian Peterson
>picking it up in the first place
Matthew Davis
Oh yeah Damian was really fucking hated when he debuted and when people heard he was going to be Robin they went full retard.
The person who did the Batman and Sons fancomic even refuse to include him in her web comic.
Mason Bennett
No, Harper's story just ran through in the Eternal books and she's taking a break. If he wanted, he could write a bluebird solo if he wanted, he just doesn't want to. He could literally write any book he wants at this point and it would sell.
Nicholas Barnes
Batfam fags are cancer anyway.
MUH ROBIN and MUH BATGIRL all day
Isaiah Sullivan
yeah, the hate happens with every new character give it time and some good story and people will stop hating Harper too
Jaxson Ward
And then they read Batman & Robin and suddenly Damian was beloved by all.
Jacob Howard
yeah, Morrison is a fag
Xavier Hall
I will only stop hating Harper if she gets rid of that ugly fucking hair.
Nathaniel Lopez
To be fair Morrison introduced him in a way that served his overall story better but not in a way that readers could connect to him. Not that the latter wouldn't result in full retardation either. I mean it's happening with Duke. Batfags are just as autistic as Lanternfags.
Matthew Campbell
I think I like Tynion now just Batwoman fucking sucks and is dragging Detective Comics down
Adrian Green
Sounds Reasonable.
Christopher Anderson
>Also incorrect kind of, he never seemed that interested in Harper, she's very much Tynion's waifu.
>[Snyder] never seems that interested in Harper
>Harper was given an entire, extra-long epilogue issue of Batman after Court of Owls
Jason Peterson
It adds to the Bat-family bloat by bringing in more people.
Lucas Parker
>Damian was beloved by all. Not to this day. And Tomasi's B&R helped Damian's popularity a lot too because for most readers he was their first Robin.
Joseph Mitchell
Tec feels more like a not great Outsiders book to me.
Tyler Harris
>hating her hottest feature
How can people have such horrible opinions
Christopher Clark
Hyperbole aside, yes, Tomasi did a great job with Damian and in general is pretty good at writing kid sidekicks, as seen with the new Superboy.
Hunter Kelly
If Duke's supposed to be his own hero, why is he dressed like Batman Lite What an ugly fucking suit
Isaac Gutierrez
It makes her look like an ugly dyke, especially with the piercings.
Levi Hall
Your point? That was her introduction retard and after that she was mostly contained in Eternals. Meanwhile Duke showed up in major roles in Endgame and Superheavy, was introduced in Zero Year.
Jaxson Long
>people actually find Harper attractive
Jaxon Perez
WHATS THE FUCKING DIFFERENCE. Anyone who partners with Batman is a sidekick by default. Even Superman
Ethan Cox
This triggers the superfags
Sebastian Nelson
>cherrypicking
Hunter Miller
Scott Snyder was sensible and reasonable.
Editors told him that they wanted BATMAN to be a solo book about Bruce Wayne. Peter Tomasi and Patrick Gleason were already mining the Bruce + Damian dynamic in BATMAN AND ROBIN. Scott Snyder the few times that he included Damian in BATMAN he wrote the character well. Scott Snyder said that he puts a lot of himself in his stories as in self-inserting himself as Bruce Wayne. Scott Snyder said that he never felt comfortable writing Damian, who was 10, because he had a son who was 9, and since he self-insert himself as Bruce it would be like writing himself having to deal with his son getting hurt. Batman in ALL-STAR BATMAN wants Duke Thomas to be a new hero and not a side-kick, because he already has Damian who's making him proud as Robin.
What's wrong with any of that?
Luis Johnson
Superman would be okay with being the sidekick though.
As long as Bruce is happy.
Ayden Jones
>What's wrong with any of that?
Well, Duke is black.
Parker Butler
If his Batman is supposedly solo, why even introduce not-Robin"?
Evan Anderson
Scott Snyder doesn't hate the Bat-Family. Heck, he's more of a Dick fan than Bruce fan. The man himself said so. He even writes a better Dick than he ever wrote a good Bruce.
It's that the editors told him that BATMAN was a solo book. Dick had NIGHTWING. Barbara had BATGIRL Jason had RED HOOD AND THE OUTLAWS Tim had TEEN TITANS. Damian had BATMAN AND ROBIN.
If he had Damian constantly in BATMAN he'd be stepping all over Tomasi and Gleason's plans for BATMAN AND ROBIN. It was be a mess editorially.
Blake Edwards
This.
It's all bullshit. He wanted to leave a permanent mark on the mythos and probably asked editorial if he could make Duke Robin and they said no because Damian is still popular.
Eli Hernandez
There's nothing bad about introducing new characters. Big 2 comics would actually be pretty stale if no creator ever created anything new. But Snyder's been doing it incredibly poorly. King's OCs fulfill unique roles and they serve a purpose in the stories he tells. Meanwhile, Snyder's been making OCs that he pretends are a big deal but proceed to do next to nothing with and instead dump on other creators for the poor suckers to try to make interesting. And what little role he has given them so far in the years he's had them don't seem like they can't be fulfilled by another established character (his Duke is pretty much a Tim clone). There doesn't seem to be any reason he created Harper and Duke other than just for the sake of creating a new character.
Adrian Collins
Because ALL-STAR BATMAN is a new book where Batman will showcase a new "hero" and big "villain" each arc.
If you two weren't fucking retards would see that i was talking in past tense, as in BATMAN (2011-2015).
Juan Bennett
Except he created Duke while on the main Batman title not just now with All-Star Batman.
Christian Hall
Except Snyder began shilling Duke long before ASB
Jackson Morris
I think Batwoman's great.
It's just that Tynion's Batwoman fucking sucks. Drags down the book and shits on the character.
Michael Ramirez
I like the metacommentary of a Kane trying to steal Batman's gimmick. It really reflect what DC tried to do with the whole Batwoman idea and introduction. At least now they admitted she is a derivative character instead of acting as if she was a totally new and original character that happened to be a Bat-themed hero in Gotham.