If the US is so powerful, why didn't they win Vietnam?

If the US is so powerful, why didn't they win Vietnam?

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>a few hundred

Because it was a false war that we were intentionally losing.

because they fought a war under the pretense of being the "good guys" and wanted to win primarily by defeating an ideology, not by killing the enemy

...

We did win.

>implying she is wrong

Because americans are very strong in their movies but not in the reality.

How did farmer get plane? It is a mystery to all.

You mean "che is Wong"

Leftists at home who didn't understand the fight against communism was necessary. Granted, Vietnam was started because of a false flag (thanks LBJ!), so they were correct in being anti-war for entirely wrong reasons.

That wasn't the point of a war there.

This. They have a lot of guns but they don't know how to use them effectively.

Yeah I hear you guys did so well before we got there

kek good one Ahmed

pussy liberals divided the nation and didn't let Nixon fulfill his plans of a free Vietnam.

Show me all the communist countries of importance.

I'd say they reached their expectations.

The Marshall Plan was a one time fluke.

All the U.S. can do is kill and destroy like a plague and wouldn't have built shit in Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos even if it did win.

Look at the past 15 years. All those "humble" and "selfless" Vietnam vets whining for decades about being called babykiller and being spat at eventually made criticizing the military politically impossible. Any opposition to them has been exterminated in the name of showing respect for the troops.

And what have they done now that they're beyond reproach? Spread this conflict to a dozen different countries and promised the world a "multigenerational war". A generation is about 25 years, so that's 50 years of warfare.

Even in this thread people are still claiming some variation of how imaginary liberals didn't let them "finish the mission" or "get the job done".

Multigenerational war. Yeah, really "finishing that mission" and "getting that job done", you warmongering douchebags.

South vietnam lost he war.

Policy makers in this thread BTFO

Thanks for that useful post pham

Because fucking hippies. Also, they weren't allowed to enter Cambodia or Laos. Which was total bullshit because Russia and China used them to supply the Viet Cong and NVA with all the arms and ammunition they could ever need to defeat the US in a sustained guerrilla war. The war was the United States vs Russia and China. Each country took control over part of the country and used the Vietnamese as pawns to establish influence in Southeast Asia.

Thanks to Jews in education creating hippies and spreading communism the United States was crippled by their own people. Every move the military made was subject to extreme criticism by the media and their hippie mob. Even when the United States finally gained access to Cambodia to destroy a massive ammunition dump only a few miles across the border, college students rioted and called it an "invasion" of Cambodia. Kent state shooting was the result and at this point the United States was in a bind. They absolutely had the power to destroy their opposition and seize control of Vietnam, but their own citizens would not permit it.

fucking hippies reeee

The Vietnamese soldiers were tougher and more dedicated than the Americans.

>outdated weapons

Soviets were sending them all the new stuff

Fucking Canadian thinks he knows anything about Americans.

The problem is that the whole US military is designed to obliterate any state that threatens their existence. They are the most powerful army in the world.

The problem is that it was not and has not been designed to fight small cells of enemies. It's so big that it cannot reach the small enemies. Like a Lion on top of an ants nest.

It has now improved by drones but it is still hard to cope with the small enemy. Of course the could just bomb the shit out of them but the political cost in the inner politics would be too high.

A lot written for a post containing nothing, many Vietnam vets were conscripts and thus had no choice but to go to the war. They have every right to feel upset about their fellow Americans spitting on them on the streets. If you object to the Vietnam War, take it out on the politicians rather than the troops.

How can you disprove that domino theory wasn't right? It was only due to brutal anti-communist massacring in Indonesia, and the influence of Lee Kuan Yew in Singapore that prevented both countries from turning communist. An Asia dominated bt communism was not in the interest of the American government.

youtube.com/watch?v=7hqYGHZCJwk

You cant win against guerilla tactics.

Look at the Iraq war. USA wrecked their asses in 3 weeks flat, but insurgency forces still dragged it like a decade.

>when proxy shilling goes wrong

the Gobmint didn't want them to win
they literally wanted a prolonged war to fuel the machine
they needed the american boys to die in horrific ways

but Americans still believe in gobmint...

They did though. They left Vietnam with the South Vietnamese holding all the cards and they still managed to fuck it up.

This exactly. The war first started with the Soviets and the United States establishing a foothold in the country. Soviet's controlled and supplied the north and fueled the war against the south. The United States wanted to maintain the same position as the Soviets in the south, which was to influence the Vietnamese from abroad. But as the northern aggression mounted, the United States sent in military advisers to see the South Vietnamese Army was prepared to fight them off. However, even with American advisers the south was not prepared to fight off the north. At this point the United States could either abandon the south, or send in ground troops. The first Marines landed in South Vietnam in 1965 in a bid to ensure the United States influence over South Vietnam would not be surrendered to the soviets.

At this point the rest of the war was just an attempt at preventing the North from encroaching too far into the south in hopes the south Vietnamese would gain the upper hand and take back the north. The United States was never prepared to take the North themselves due to their weak and exposed position with the American public and free press. The cost in American lives to take the north would be unacceptable. US troops were a last ditch effort to delay the North long enough in hopes the Soviets would lose the ability to supply them, or for the south to gain the upper hand. The goal was never to wage a real war .

>start a war in the jungle against guerilla fighters
that was just a bad move. No Americans cared about south vietnam
The only way they could've maintained morale at home was to have meaningful victories, but those are impossible when you're on the defensive

Because after WWII we felt the need to place rules about what we could and couldn't do in wartime.

There is no reason why any superpower shouldn't just send B-52s or equivalent to bomb the everloving shit out of whatever uppity third world nation thinks it's gonna fight the west. Back in Vietnam days, sure, Russia was a threat but nowadays? What the fuck is stopping the first world?

War is also not about glory anymore, Vietnam was the first taste of this. The media milks the pain and suffering of the enemies of the state, rather than the glory and heroism of the soldiers fighting and dying to keep us on top and afloat.

>muh dying for Israel.
There was a time when Israel didn't exist and we died for a reason.

>tfw want to enlist and at least die removing kebab instead of alone in my basement at age 99
>Canada will never be involved with the ME for 20 years because libtards will vote for Trudeau until he turns 65 and is no longer eligible to be PM.

I hate this country.

>USA suffered military defeat in Vietnam
>non-American education

and why exactly were you trying to loose intentionally?

who would win?

19 t-34/85s and a kv-1
vs
2 tigers, 2 panthers and 2 jagdpanzer IV?

>$140,000,000,000+ in combined military military and economic aid (inflation adjusted)
>USSR supplied their best anti-air weapons and shot down over 1,000 US aircraft
>Chinese govt recently officially admitted sending 500,000 troops to fight in vietnam
>10,000+ soviet advisors

why so tryhard?

we only had to spend like 10% of that to destroy the USSR

I hate to say it, but Mexico is right. We had the ability to secure a military victory, but it would come at a great cost in the eyes of the international community at a time where we could ill afford to lose international support.

My head hurts from your lack of understanding the vietnam war

M1 Abrams

>they didn't win Vietnam
Vietnam's greatest national achievement was making my t-shirt.

The EXACT FUCKING SAME REASON Germany lost world war fucking 1

Oh the US losing 'Nam is also when shit started going downhill. really makes one wonder

Just a little FYI: According to the pentagon, the taliban are at their strongest today.

military industrial complex

keep shooting bullets, keep making more, rinse/repeat

Funny.
Considering both USA and USSR put a lot of effort making France and the UK lose their colonies, including Indochina.
Yep, the viet-nam war is a direct consequence of the USA efforts against colonization. You guys helped them to get their independence and shat yourselves when you realized they were likely to turn to communism.

Here is the thing about fighting ideologies and guerilla warfare against civilians compared to a standing army and infrastructure, you can't entirely win. As long as their are citizens and people living in that country there always will be fighters and conflict. It is made worse by those who are self sustaining(like farmers) who don't even rely on a power structure such as a standing government. Factor in geographic locations like a jungle and failure of modern technology in those areas and you have a population completely hidden.

>Pic related to fight this kind of warfare. Its Ghengis Khan.
You want to know why he was successful in getting rid of ideologies and guerilla warfare? He killed every single civilian. Every single one. Women and children? Dead or enslaved. Ideologies? Everyone is dead who shared those ideologies. There are no angry families or neighbors of dead soldiers who become militant and fight back because they are all dead.

This is the only way to actually win these wars fully however you can't do that in modern times because there are "rules" to warfare these days for any standing army.

I should also mention that all the women were raped to have mongolian half breed babies. So not only did native populations die, the remaining women had mongolian children and raised to be mongolian.

they won in vietnam but they lost the propaganda war at home

I hate this "country too"?. I actually think we should break it up. Cuckada has been nothing but shit for BC

>made us accept thousands of chinks (abolishing our fucking head tax)
>now CBC is full of stories about "muh poor chinese graduates cant aford homes" and "bc is evil and undemocratic" because of our "evil foreign ownership tax" just because we want OUR OWN FUCKING PEOPLE to be able to afford houses
>oh and to really put the cherry on top of the cake of shit now some federal "constitutional experts" are saying "hey a tax like this might be unconstitutional. god forbid you to try and make houses affordable for your own people and stop criminals from laundering money"

So im at the fucking breaking point. Ive fucking had it with fucking Canada and their stupid shit. We give them so much and they sit on their asses in ontario treating us like a fucking conony and a playground. We need to separate and tell ottawa it can take Pierre's stupid fucking constitution, its shit taxes, its shit economy, its shit voting system and its fucking "diversity" and "rights" and shove them up their fucking asses.

AND WHAT DID WE GET IN RETURN FOR BEING A PART OF THIS FUCKING MESS "COUNTRY" MIGHT YOU ASK???

ONE RAILWAY

ONE
MOTHER
FUCKING
GODDAMN
SHITTY
RAILWAY
THAT WE BARELY EVEN FUCKING USE

I wish i could travel back to victoria in the 1860s and show them what a fucking stupid decision they were about to make

We fucking rekt their shit militarily in Vietnam and Iraq/Afghanistan if we're talking body counts.

Its commonly stated that the vietnam war was lost on american soil. Basically communist subversion fucked the mindless sheep into condemning the war and starting the hippie movement. This is when the US really starting going downhill, and all of western civilisation followed suit. Communism didnt win per se, but communist ideologies really infected everything. Its sad

>entire army
>outdated weapons

The viets dug tunnels small enough for only THEM to fit into and basically had an ant's tunnel across the country even under US bases and stole weapons from them ALL the fucking time.

Doesn't matter how many tanks you bring when they are all hiding underground with billions of traps waiting for you.

they didn't win ever in a straight up battle but US forces got rekt in the jungle because they didn't know place well enough.

Well?

>lost on American soil

You do realize americans were ALWAYS anti-war right? People opposed WW I and WWII but the leadership dived in (like they should have). The political tendencies of the US was always to the left. It is only so bad right now because politicians have to pander to those leftists more than they ever had to before to get a position.

Except you are wrong my dear leaf.

The first world countries are stopped by itself and the collected global community. Everyone is cucked into at least pretending they love peace when clearly global peace is an impossibility. Instead of reducing conflict all countries want to do is talk about how peaceful they are intead of engaging in proactive peacekeeping. They dont understand that to keep peace your actions cant always be peaceful.

to bad you suck at figthing a guerilla war

wasn't Rhodesia one of the best counter insurgency fighters ever? Pretty sure they held off the commies without killing native African populations outright

This bong has literally the only correct answer in the thread. To expand on it in a manner you idiots can understand:
>Johnson tries to run the war from washington >without actually bombing N. Vietnam much
>this obviously doesn't work well
>Nixon gets elected
>pussyfoots around some more, more of nothing happening
>finally decides he's done with it, starts major strategic bombing of N. Vietnam
>N. Vietnam destroyed (what little there was to destroy)
>N. Vietnam cries uncle, want peace now
>viet cong long since destroyed as an effective fighting force
>peace treaty in 1973, commie invasion stopped
>American army goes home because no one wants to be there anymore, even less of a purpose now
>by 1975 N. Vietnam gets rearmed by China
>N. Vietnam invades S. Vietnam
>Democrats control congress, don't send troops despite treaty obligations
>S. Vietnam gets rolled
>gg no re

but the planes where empty

Guerilla warfare (tribal warfare) is the most effective type of warfare.

hippies

I guess they mean acid as in LSD, not as in blistering agents?

Pretty much yeah

But it was troops it was material we didn't send.

You make that statement as if the US population (like any) are naturally inclined to the left. They are told what to think. Its so bad now because they are told through so many platforms in so many ways by so many different voices.

>I need guns to stop the gov..
>gets drone striked

:^)

>powerful

POOerful

It's solely because of the efforts of that pinko traitor "Hanoi Rose", a.k.a., John Mccain.

>"why bother having guns?"
>get conquered with sticks and stones

Sadistic bitch.

...

>Ho Chi Mihn wanted Americas help to get rid of French
>gets told to fuck off so they get help from Russia
>America suddenly wants to "help " help the Vietnamese now

30 million dead gooks vs 55k GI. Who lost?

You people are blind. Every war the US has been involved in since Vietnam was not meant to be "won". Vietnam was the first prototype war for profit. Designed to milk as much money from the taxpayer as possible. There were mandates from both the Johnson and Nixon administrations to not advance beyond a certain parallel. When HW Bush didnt push through to Baghdad in '91, the establishment torpedoed his campaign. Had that happened all through the 90s America would've been locked in an insurgency battle at that time and Bush Sr. would've gotten two terms. Just take what is happening with ISIS now. We have been fucking the shit out of them for two plus years now and they're still there. Why? Because we just take out shit around the edges no real strategic targets. To keep the money flowing. Thats what its all about. MONEY.

So what I mean is we couldve rolled through Vietnam all the way to the border with China but that wasnt the real objective and it wasnt from the start.

To a large extent, you have to blame the rank-and-file soldiers themselves for sucking at their task. That's not a popular opinion, since most of those soldiers didn't ask to be sent there to begin with, but it is the truth.

For one thing, they were fighting a counter-insurgency, but their tactics at ground-level were completely inappropriate for that role. Really simple stuff like alienating potentially-friendly villagers by indiscriminately burning their houses.

In a counterinsurgency, you have to be sophisticated enough to understand that places like villages are TOOLS. You USE them to bait and destroy enemy forces. If you destroy them when only civvies are around, you are fucking up and doing it wrong.

Also, soldiers were often drunk or high, and performed their duties at a dismal level of competence, despite having superior equipment, medical services, air cover, and so on.

So, a lot of the blame goes to the "grunts" who failed to do their jobs correctly. America needed a better class of soldier than the one it sent. It's 2016; we can finally admit this.

Everyone in high command knew that the will of the vietnamese people resisting the US military wasn't broken and that the fight would continue.
Either that or they were blind about their enemy.

In any case, pulling out that moment allowed the US to safe face. The US military was in a horrible state moral wise.

It all came down to will. The Vietnamese were fighting for their country, their people and against a tyrannic, overpowering enemy.

The US soldiers fought far from home in jungle and heat. They fought little hut dwellers with the most advanced army at that time and still the conflict dragged on.
Opium abuse was rampamt, killing of officers (fraging) and refusal of orders happened more and more often.

The US may not have "lost" the war, but they would have.

They haven't won any war since ww2, which was made posaible only because of the collossal Russian sacrifice

maybe they realized they were killing innocent ppl for nothing

>outdated weapons
Are you retarded?

we are here to free you

...

well the phoenix program sure as hell dident help, and is largely to blame for most of the things you brougth up

>55k Americans dead, 1,100,000 BC dead
>Implying anything other than a political loss, because American people got tired of killing so many chinks

Retard alert

*VC

Hanoi fuckin Jane.

Vietnam wasn't really about Vietnam.

USA has the best military equipment in the world but the worst soldiers

Soldier skills are needed in guerilla warfare and the USA soldiers sucked

Because the Vietnamese used the second amendment.

The u.s. was not trying to lose. However when the u.s. and China came to an agreement about sphere's of influence and relations with the Soviet Union the u.s. pulled out.

Essentially we handed Vietnam over to China because they said they would like us more than the Soviet Union.

yea, about that.....

Because democracy fucking blows when it comes to consistent strategy and foreign policy.