It's been a while since we had a good discussion of this movie, so let's do that

It's been a while since we had a good discussion of this movie, so let's do that.

Favorite song?

Favorite scene?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=bHU7oPA-l1E
youtube.com/watch?v=8wGUvBELwRU
youtube.com/watch?v=-tVTEyuCKn4
youtube.com/watch?v=a50HfPVpMZY
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You know the one...

JUST SAYTH THE LORD!

>Favorite song
All I ever wanted.
>Favorite scene
gif related.

Sup Forums only discusses things it hates... and nobody hates this movie.

Plagues is my favorite song but I have a soft spot for All I Ever Wanted. It's a shorter song, but I like the image of Moses struggling to live in denial of what he's always known - that he isn't a Prince of Egypt, that he doesn't belong with the people he's come to call his family, etc. It's very bittersweet.

Best scene is Moses and Ramses reuniting for the first time in years. Reminiscing, remarking at how far they've come, both wishing things could go back to the way they were, but both eventually realizing they never can.

It's thus. Thus said the lord

I still think this is probably the best depiction of the Christian God we've seen on film so far.

The fire rejuvenating the tree as the conversation goes, the fact he speaks in Moses own voice, how he loses his temper but pulls back when he sees how much Moses is scared shitless of him, the gentleness of it all and the music, it all comes together and makes it all so perfect.

Dreamworks will never make a film of this quality again.

Agreed. The scene still gives me chills. You could really feel the godly presence.

Sad but true.

"Thus saith the Lord," if you want to get technical

All of the songs were pretty good. It's not my favorite, but those songs have already been mentioned.

youtube.com/watch?v=bHU7oPA-l1E

Its one of the best depictions of brotherly love in an animation, and it really emphasises the tragedy of the situation. You watch them meet again after so many years, particularly in the private meeting immediately after that

youtube.com/watch?v=8wGUvBELwRU
>So you have returned... only to free them.
Look how hurt Ramses is. Its the pain of that rejection that hardens his heart, that and the fear of disappointing his father.

Ramses never believes in the God of the Hebrews - his first proper words to Moses is "What's this really about? and his last are "is [the Hebrew's extra work] thanks to you? ". From his perspective, his beloved baby brother, Moses the irresponsible party animal, lost his mind, killed a man and then fled into the desert, where apparently he became a wizard like Hotep and Hoy. Hotep and Hoy are both charlatans, but they can fake doing the miracles well enough (for a time at least). He can't allow Moses (little Moses, Moses the irresponsible kid) to destroy what Seti set out to build. Its fear of his son losing everything that prompts him to say call for the death of the Firstborn like Seti, and its the loss of his son that breaks him. Ramses loses everything, and he never really understands why his brother would hurt him so badly.

>You who I called brother, how can you have come to hate me so? Is this what you wanted?

As a side-note, Ralph Fiennes sings his bit of The Plagues (the only other actors in the film to do their speaking and singing voice are Michelle Pfeiffer, Ofra Haza and, very briefly, Helen Mirren). He's not quite in tune with the music, and according to the score he's supposed to hold the notes for longer (see at 2:07), but he puts so much bitterness into it.

youtube.com/watch?v=-tVTEyuCKn4

Am I the only person who thinks that this is really isn't all that great? I feel that it gets its cult reputation mostly because it did lukewarm at the box office and has a self-conscious, "epic" feel that acts as catnip to certain groups of people.

I don't think it's a bad movie. Animation is mostly solid, art direction good enough. Some CGI that was probably more used for cost-cutting measures looks pretty terrible now, and I doubt it looked much better at the time (like the whale, but in the movie's defense, none of the other stuff is that bad). I think the music is mostly awful, but that's kind of subjective. I mostly just don't like the writing and voice acting, which seems to me like the same type of awkward, forceful dialogue people complained about in the Star Wars prequels.

I really loved it as a kid because it felt like this great, misunderstood masterpiece. Only it doesn't hold up for me anymore, and I think I loved the idea of it more than anything.

This song, and the burning bush scene probably.

There's something timeless about this movie, I never get tired of watching it.

Playing with the Big Boys and The Plagues always give me goosebumps.

My favourite scene(s) is the burning bush or him trying to convince Pharaoh and the magicians doing their shit.

SO YOU THINK
YOU'VE GOT FRIENDS
IN HIGH PLACES

Plagues.
When Ramses is screaming 'Moses' in agony and rage. His entire world has crumbled around him, and its all his fault yet he still blames Moses for his failures.

user there's a reason we don't discuss kikeshit

Through Heaven's Eyes is how I justify being a cog in the machine.

>friend wants to go watch the ben-hur remake
>mfw watching it
It's like they wanted to do what Prince of Egypt did with The Ten Commandments, but fucked up on every conceivable level, really makes you appreciate the treasure you have when you see it done poorly

damn dude

With the power to put us on the run.

>and its all his fault
How? He was in a no-win situation throughout the whole story.

The live rendition of Through Heaven's Eyes is amazing.

youtube.com/watch?v=a50HfPVpMZY

I SEND THE LOCUSTS ON THE WIND
SUCH AS THE WORLD HAS NEVER SEEND
ON EVERY LEAF ON EVERY BRANCH
UNTIL THERE'S NOTHING LEFT OF GREEN

I SEND MY SCOURGE I SEND MY SWORD

THUS SAYETH THE LORD

Best villain song ever

Well forgive us these smiles on our faces.
You'll know what power is when we are done
...son...

The scene where Moses turns to Nile to blood is really chilling and my favorite part of the movie.

I wish dreamworks had the guts to do more movies like this one.

>God is the villain!

Ramses was a prick and God did nothing wrong.

God killed kids and cattle, fuck him.

If god had allowed his people to be completely enslaved for generations before he intervened that is kind of a dick thing to do.

> Genocide is okay when the jews do it!

By the power of Ra...

Mut. Nut.
Khnum. Ptah.
Nephthys. Nekhbet.
Sobek. Sekhmet.
Sokar. Selket.
Reshpu. Wadjet.
Anubis. Anukis.
Seshmu. Meskhenet.
Hemsut. Tefnut.
Heket. Mafdet.
RA!

It's like you guys forgot about the baby killing. They had it coming.

>Favourite scene?

When Ramseses stands over his son's body and it's completely silent except for crowd faintly wailing in the background. I seriously got chills.

Also this god does not hate yeast for no particular reason or threatens to kill Moses the next day because he forgot to circumcise his kid.

If you're so retarded you can't possibly imagine things from the perspective of a being for whom time is meaningless then no wonder atheism is spreading among the moronic masses

Wouldn't being timeless just make it worse

If he exists at all points in time then at any point, from his perspective, he could prevent the enslavement in the first place

instead he deliberately allows them to be enslaved for generations before letting them be freed

...

>give idiots free will
>they fuck up
>teach them a lesson

This isn't hard to understand unless you're stupid or autistic

The babies deserved to die because the guy who had been dead for years before their birth killed other babies?
Jewish morality confuses me.

What was the lesson though?

>piss off god
>YOU CAN'T PUNISH MY SON FOR STUPID SHIT I DO THIS IS AMERICA!

Not how it fucking works you fucking autist

>Pharaoh pisses of God
>punish someone else's kids
Jews, not even once.

I always wanted them to do the story of Elijah.

> genocide and slavery is okay when it's to "teach people a lesson" even when the people suffering it aren't the ones who made the mistake in the first place

I see you didn't get the moral of the story. Let's try a For Dummies version.
Genocide and slavery are okay if they're goys.

I am not trying to be some smug fedora here but I think we can agree that morals of the old testament are incompatible with modern morality.Back then people were far more tribalistic and their morality reflected that.

Morality is objective and comes directly from God, therefore the Old Testament is still in force today. Checkmate atheist, now pay ten shekels for antisemitism.

Ramses is a good boy and dindu nothin wrong.

>Brother who never had to endure same pressure of becoming a future emperor decides he's Jews and kills your son
P-praise the God!

Oy vey, remember the six million years of slavery and the over 9000 pyramids the Jews had to build with no food, rest or tools!

He was just following the path that's been determined to him by his ancestors.

It's prehistoric Jews' fault they caught themselves in slavery pickle.

You have exactly 10 seconds to prove Ramses wasn't the good guy.
Protip: you can't.

God sez so.

As if god is a big authority when it comes to judging people.

It's not just the father. The whole culture thrives on the suffering of others. Their system is amoral and you know it. Not to mention that they also believe a Pharaoh has a form of divinity which is an direct insult to God. That's why Ramses didn't do shit until his son was taken. He thought he is a higher being. He challenged God and he lost. A fair deal.

That only works if you are fine with god playing by different rules than us.

>The whole culture thrives on the suffering of others
Suffering doesn't provide anyone with anything.
>amoral
Amoral is not the word you're looking for.
>A fair deal
I don't think you know what "fair" or "deal" mean either.

Prince of Egypt was more about brotherhood than God leading the slaves out of Egypt through Moses

this, I've heard way too many people criticizing the movie for the biblical inaccuracies even though that wasn't the point

Nice strawman logic. Come up with something better.

>Strawman
Can you point out the strawman in that post, or do you not know what word means either?

Nice try.

>thread starts off about the movie and its songs etc
>devolves into debate about religion, morality, etc.
Every time.

Well it is what the story is about in the end.
Didn't Dreamworks make another Bible movie too?

Joseph: King of Dreams

Not as good as Prince of Egypt though still quite a good movie on its own. Plus a lot more biblically accurate than its predecessor.

That would make it a prequel, since Josef is the reason the kikes ended up in Egypt, right?

You're right, but I did use the word predecessor, not prequel.

>but I did use the word predecessor, not prequel
Oh I wasn't implying you were wrong with anything you said.

>Well it is what the story is about in the end.
It literally isn't. The moral of the story is "don't fuck with the lord." In fact that's the moral of the entire bible.

t. Orthodox Jew

This one seems unfinished, back in the oven with it.

>people miss the point that ramses cursed his own people

While Ramses got a pretty raw (Ra) deal, he did have a way out. He could've released Moses' people at any point, but instead he kept trying to prevent it, and in doing so merely delayed the inevitable, while bringing unnecessary hardship and death upon his people.

Of course, letting the slaves go was going to pretty much destroy their society in the short term, and things would have to undergo major change, but it was going to happen anyway, since it was the literal will of God. And you know, a brutal slave culture is probably deserving of it anyway.


Plus, it's not like he didn't have time to make the choice. Moses tried to warn him numerous times before the plagues, and gave him plenty of chances to give in. Still, he thought he could play chicken with the Jewish God and lost.

So yeah, he had options. They weren't exactly great options, but he still could've let the slaves all go from the start, saving a lot of pain and hardship for everyone.

But then again... If he did that, then there'd be no movie, so maybe he DID make the right choice in the end!

>He could've released Moses' people at any point
Could he? In the movie he says "let my heart be hardened", which would imply he was making an actual decision, but in the Bible it was God who did it to him. I don't think he ever had a choice in the matter.
>a brutal slave culture
Which is what the Jews created as soon as they left Egypt, and with God's blessing.

Oh for fuck's sake not this again. Why do people who have never read the bible try to quote it?

It specifically says that the pharaoh hardened his OWN heart for the first 4 plagues or so. THEN later God hardened it for him.
>Which is what the Jews created as soon as they left Egypt, and with God's blessing.
Haha what? There were about a billion different laws created to force a Jew to release their slaves under different circumstances.

Pretty much this, during the whole plagues song he saw all of his people suffering and didn't stop it, he could've said "fine take your slaves and go" but didn't out of stubbornness, he only relented when it finally reached him, and someone he cared about.

It was cruel sure, but biblical god isn't generally a very nice guy, and considering all of egypt was basically built on their work and suffering, they kind of had it coming.

>first 4 plagues or so
Was that the plagues the Egyptians priests were able to replicate with their magic powers?
>THEN later God hardened it for him.
There's also that bit where God makes the Egyptians give all their silver to the Jews so they could have shekels to hoard.
>to force a Jew to release their slaves under different circumstances.
And also many laws that allowed them to keep people forever, and their children too.

>they kind of had it coming
What kind of psycho would think all those children "had it coming"? None of the Egyptian peasants or non-Jewish slaves had any say in the matter but they suffered for it all the same.

>Was that the plagues the Egyptians priests were able to replicate with their magic powers?
The priests could only replicate the first 2, blood and frogs.
>There's also that bit where God makes the Egyptians give all their silver to the Jews so they could have shekels to hoard
I think that was only as the Jews were leaving.
>And also many laws that allowed them to keep people forever, and their children too
Not forever no. When you read the Jewish laws on slavery, you get the impression that they are basically there to slowly whittle away the idea of slavery as a whole within the Jewish nation. The laws in place were very limiting.
>and their children
There were some weird rules regarding this, but they were very convoluted and were more there for hypothetical scenarios that never happened than for "so that you could keep a slaves' children forever."

Great movie, "what you wanted" is the best song.

Jews were never slaves in egypt, the pyramids weren't built by slaves at all, in the story god hardens pharaoh's heart to prevent him from releasing the slaves so he could finish his wicked-ass plagues, killing all the innocent sons of slave-owners was always a horrifying thing to do but made sense for a war god, yahweh was a war god in a tribal pantheon who demanded his followers only worship him and wipe out other tribes

>that was only as the Jews were leaving
Yeah. God could do that whenever he felt like it, but didn't, because killing people is more fun I guess?

>spoiler

There was actually a group of Egyptians who joined the Israelites as they left the country. One would assume there was nothing stopping other Egyptians from converting mid-plague to the Jews.

What? Are you asking why God didn't take the Egyptians' silver earlier? I'm confused.

old testament God thinks of humans the same you think of ants.
Talking about the plagues, i remember from another prince of egypt thread or was in /his/ saying that these plagues were God mocking the strongest egyptian gods.
Blood Nile mocking Sebek, Crops dying mocking ox god etc...

Actually a lot of that is incorrect but I'm not sure if I should bother stating why because, like you, some other retard is likely to jump into this thread making fedoratheist posts without reading the thread first.

>old testament slavery laws
were only beneficial to jews, in a more indentured servant sort of relationship.

Jewish slaves had to be freed after 6 years but no such provision existed for non-jewish slaves. There are contradictory rules for women, as women sold by their father into slavery are to be slaves forever but another section says women should be freed after a certain amount of time.

Also if you were a male jewish slave with a wife and children when you were freed the owner would keep the wife and children.

If you were a foreign slave to a jew you were fucked for life, user.

It's not a personal 'had it coming' this is cruel god we're talking about.

The jew's had far more children die because of Seti, so in that way, again, even if it was cruel, it was somewhat karmic. Seriously, the point was that Egypt itself was a mistake, it was built on the lives of slaves, and in the end Rameses saw the man who killed all those children as 'a great leader' and his pride and his complex about not being the 'weak link' lead him to hold out against Moses until his own kid died. And Moses warned him again before it happen, he specifically even said "this one will be worse than the last" even though the whole city was in chaos already.

>What? Are you asking why God didn't take the Egyptians' silver earlier? I'm confused.
Are you pretending to be retarded now? The point I'm making is that if God can mind-control people that way and is willing to do it, why didn't he make Pharaoh let the Jews go without all those people getting killed?

>Might makes right, the terrorists always win
What a fun lesson for kids! It's still great though.

>Jewish slaves had to be freed after 6 years but no such provision existed for non-jewish slaves
All slaves have to be released after a certain point in time...
>contradictory rules for women
>contradictory
Welcome to the bible.
>the owner would keep the
Nope, this only applied in very specific situations.

God didn't mind control anyone during the entire fiasco. The most he did was harden pharaoh's heart, which is nowhere near mind control.

If "hardening" someone's heart is not controlling his mind, what is it?
Also when the Jews were leaving God DID make the Egyptians give their silver to them. I count that as mind control too, not likely they'd have done it otherwise.

>actually a lot of that is incorrect but I have no proof so I'm just going to pretend I can back up my own beliefs instead of actually doing so

It's not recent news that the graves of the workers (not slaves) who worked on the pyramids were found and the idea of Jews being slaves in Egypt never had any historical evidence outside the old testament.

The bible quotes regarding hardening pharaoh's heart specifically say that God raised Pharaoh up and hardened his heart specifically so God could fuck his shit up so bad the world would take notice.

Yahweh was the war god who joined the canaanite panetheon led by El and his consort Asherah

Those so called "facts" have no business here, especially not in a fantasy movie where they're not true.

>If "hardening" someone's heart is not controlling his mind, what is it?
It's a lot closer to having strong will in the face of adversity. You could not shit your pants when being held at gunpoint but that doesn't mean you'd start telling the gunman to go fuck himself instead of calmly discussing making a deal. That sort of thing.

>when the Jews were leaving
Ohhh that's what you're referring to. No, that was likely Pharaoh telling his people to do that, or the Egyptians were just scared shitless at that point. Seriously, the Jews could have burped and their former masters would have shit themselves. The Egyptians must have fucking hated the Jews at that point.

It was all explained already before you joined the thread, bro. Read the posts above yours.

You're wrong. Only Hebrew slaves needed to be emancipated after six years.

"If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself."

"And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do."

"Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly."

Hebrew male slave? 6 years. Hebrew female slave? If sold by father, forever. Non-Hebrew slave? Forever.

Straight from Exodus and Leviticus

Pretty much, but in the end, like I said, the Jews as a people went through miles more suffering and hardship than the Egyptians did, and as well, that yeah, this god isn't mr nice guy, he saw all the suffering that the jews went through over all that time, and threw it back at Egypt until they would relent and let the slaves go. Karma, as I said, on a non-personal scale.

It's really funny that fedorahs went from a genuine interest in socially awkward circles to a symbol of militant atheism to an outdated reference only morons use

I gotta read the passages again because I remember there's a lot more to it than that.

In general though the Israelites weren't big on slaves in their entire history anyway.

>It's a lot closet to having a strong will in the face of adversity
A will he didn't have until God gave it to him? Sounds like mind control to me.
>No, that was likely Pharaoh telling his people to do that
But it literally says God did it.

Cut me some slack I never get to post those pictures otherwise.
Two wrongs don't make a right, dammit.

>a will he didn't have
But it's wrong, and I already said this yet you apparently ignore it. Pharaoh proved he DOES have the willpower when it plain as day says he hardened his own heart for the first 4 plagues yet you keep ignoring or denying this.
>but it literally says god did it
Passage please. It's late here.