Why did Nazi Germany attck Stalin?

Ameridumb here. I thought Merica won WW2?

youtube.com/watch?v=TUDx70kRXtU

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Yeah, right. Because an army in the middle of extensive rearmament is obviously prepared to strike.

We might have had plans to attack Germany, but no earlier than spring 42.

youtube.com/watch?v=x6DOFR49YKA

>3/4 of German Transport in 1941 was horse drawn
>Soviets had the biggest military of the time

I thought Germany and Soviets were friends, didn't they help Hitler begin the war?

I am guessing Germany got too greedy so Stalin was like bad doge bad.

>American Education

We were allies of convinience at best. In the 30ies, it was obvious that Hitler is going to attack somebody. For a long time, we attempted to build an anti-Hitler coalition with France and England. When these attempts failed, we swapped a jewish foreign minister to user-jewish one and went from attempting to contain Hitler to redirecting him angainst France and England, while simultaneously sending our industry into overdrive and starting to manufacture military equipment like mad, beleiving thatwe bought ourselves some time before the inevitable war.

Well, we miscalcualted and bought ourselves not as much time as we beleived.

As far as I understand it, resources, and because almost everyone thought Russia would capitulate very quickly, and it nearly did.

Also Germany loathed Russia and was more Anti-communist than anti-capitalist.
I've heard theories that he found out that he was dying, and tried to speed up the pace of the war, but it obviously backfired.

So were the Soviets mounting an attack or just building a defense. The video says Russians were mounting an attack that is why Germany was able to do as much damage as they did on the first strike (Operation Barbarosa)

Well, winter was coming and Germans had no winter uniforms or oil

The video is full of shit. The Red Army understood that the Wehrmacht has a qualitative advantage in tanks and airplanes. By spring-summer 41 a new generation of comparable or superior vehicles were hastily designed and put into production (T-34, KV-1, Yak-1, LaGG-3, Pe-2, Il-2), but were produced only in limited nubers and had next to crew trained in their use. That is not a situationwhen you attack - especially if by next year you expect to achieve qualitative parity and quantitative advantage.

The reason for so much damage is ilitary intelligence failure. England was determined to goad USSR into making a pre-eptive strike against Germany, and Soviet intelligence was flooded with fabricated information about German attack since about 39. Unfortunately,when true reports of imminent German invasion started coming, they were dismissed as some more British forgeries.

Why Imperial Germany attack France?

Two-Front War.
>tfw Britian fucked up by not helping the German Empire conquer Europe and attacking the French.

Germany should have won WWI. WWII is literally France and Britain's fucking fault with the Treaty.

The whole purpose of Germany's militarization was to halt the spread of Communism into Western Europe. Anyone who doesn't know this is a fucking idiot.

Because russia was about to invade 17 days after hitler pulled the trigger first. Documents found after stalins death in the 1950s regarding operation groza reveal this. It was literally self defense. Also they built their airports right next to the border which you would not do if you were planning to defend.

But after Soviets defeated Hitler they didn't continue the war path (To spread Communisms)?

how do we know the real state of the Red Army in 1941 ? are soviet archives open and legit ?

>Continue the war path
>By attacking the nuclear armed allies with whole masses of troops on the front
would have possibly been the most catastrophic idea in history, that's why they resorted to proxy wars and trying to spread south

I see, thanks

Fun Fact my great-great-Uncle was in the last US Calvary. He came back after the war retarded.

>We might have had plans to attack Germany, but no earlier than spring 42.
While I know Barbarossa was pre-emptive, you saying that basically shows that Hitler was right.

>In the 30ies, it was obvious that Hitler is going to attack somebody.

Fkn lmao. That's why he proposed peace to literally anyone and wanted complete disarmament so that nobody could fight these retarded wars anymore. Only after he was ignored by the allies he started his own program. If Hitler wanted war, his economy would have looked vastly different in 1939.

>anything from the nation that brought us "photoshop:1940's edition" being legit

I agree with this, it seems the Polish were committing genocide against Germans because of the treaty.

I like pics of airborn tanks

>The reason for so much damage is ilitary intelligence failure. England was determined to goad USSR into making a pre-eptive strike against Germany, and Soviet intelligence was flooded with fabricated information about German attack since about 39. Unfortunately,when true reports of imminent German invasion started coming, they were dismissed as some more British forgeries.

A good book to read up on this stuff?

Some allied generals, I think it was patton, were confused as to why the allies didn't push against the now weakened soviets after victory in Europe. It would have been a great idea too, if not for the potentially huge demoralizing effect it'd have on already war weary populations.

ISIS has $1 billion in US humvees. Crazy shit huh

ibtimes.com/isis-has-1b-worth-us-humvee-armored-vehicles-one-was-used-mondays-suicide-bombing-1946521

Is Austria fault who started this shitty mess, twice

>he proposed peace to literally anyone and wanted complete disarmament so that nobody could fight these retarded wars anymore
Where can I read about this?

no place with an ounce of credibility

Look up the causes of WW2 on youtube. After WW1 Germany was cut to pieces by the French and England with the treaty of Versailles. This caused Germany to become very poor and Berlin was basically a center of prostitution.

amazon.de/What-World-Rejected-1933-1940-Including/dp/1500654043

Look on google, maybe you find the PDF. Around 90 pages is should be.

Stalin was a mass murderer and Hitler wanted to stop him
youtube.com/watch?v=v6AiqtJCm6A

Only on pol, certainly not in a history book.

Attacked Stalin because Stalin was bound to make an aggressive move against the Reich at some point. They knew they couldn't win a defensive war against a zero army so the idea was a blitz to wipe out their leadership. Started late summer and soon as they lost their gamble to do so the winter set in and their chances of doing what they had aimed to do greatly decreased.
I don't know why either, they were just as much of an asshole as the Nazis.

Yes which is why they attacked, it was preemptive against an army rearming itself.

>Why did Nazi Germany attack Stalin
Because the Sovjet Union were dirty bolsjeviks that threatened to pollute Europe with their commie bullshit. Nazi's hated communists, they were an enemy of the Reich and had to be destroyed. The Nazi's saw it as their duty to protect Europe from 2 major enemies: zionism (Jews) and communism.

It was a preemptive strike. If they would have waited any longer the USSR would have been too strong and stable to fight. Of course that plan went to shit once the US threw in with the soviets and the germans started slaughtering friendly slavs not to mention having to bail out Italy in Greece.

There are history books available on WW2.

Yeah staying with Italy was a mistake and hostility towards a number of Eastern Europeans really hurt them.
Their chances really became shut once the west started dumping supplies into the soviets.

>trusting (((history books)))
You probably only read the good goy English ones written by Mr. Schekelstein

Another good read is How Hitler and the Nazis could have won the second world War and the rise and fall of the German war machine.

Is this a good book or just the usual "muh evil nazis" post war propaganda deliberately ignoring information?

youtube.com/watch?v=cpNaV2Usxlc

I love the lack of focus on allied and Japanese war crimes.

LEDOKOL INTENSIFIES

Hitler attacked USSR for lebensraum and oil.
Too bad he didn't understand exactly how much lebensraum he tried to get, so his logistics collapsed in 42-43.
In 1944 nazis were already in retreat. All Western Front did was shave off an extra year of war (and possible nazi A-bomb).

Actually senpai it was Serbia's and Bosnian fault really. Archduke did nothing wrong.

But fucking Austria did drop the ball.

Hitler declared war on the U.S.A. you fucking mongs.

Leo what?
>42-43
Their logistics were already strained at the start with how many soviet soldiers were surrendering, more than they thought would.
>44 already retreating
Yes we know this, what about it?
>Western front
The west was helping before the actual front opened.
starting from 1941:
12700 tanks
8000 artillery
152000 rifles
427000 trucks
23000 trains and wagons
2 500 000 tons of aircraft fuel (40% of soviet produce)
250 000 tons of aluminum that could be used to build 100 000 fighters or bombers
22 150 airplanes
also medicine and clothes
~11 billion dollars
after 1941 in soviet weapons factories lend lease covered:
70% of bronze demand
53% of explosive material demand
46% of steel demand
and 39% of work machinery and tool demand

Reading it right now, "Stalingrad" by the same author was very balanced. Read pic related.
That isn't true, you haven't read it.

After the U.S. declared war on Japan, not that it was wrong, an ally of Germany.
You declared war on Germany so what?

Without Allied bombing, up to a quarter of a million German men and 7,500 heavy guns employed for air defense could have been sent to the Eastern Front in 1943, where they would have been deployed against Red Army tanks.

>Eight hundred thousand military personnel were mobilized for air defense work, more soldiers than the Wehrmacht had in Italy. Fully one-third of German artillery production, one-third of the output of the optical industry, and two-thirds of the production of radar and signals equipment were devoted to the antiaircraft effort. These defenses consumed one-fifth of all ammunition produced.

>By 1944, the German air defense system called on the services of 4.5 million workers and consumed a third of the nation’s total war resources. Digging shelters and distributing gas masks, cleaning up bomb debris and pulling the dead from battered buildings, working as fire wardens and firefighters, nurse’s aides and social workers, airplane spotters and emergency ambulance drivers, millions of German civilians were enlisted in the bomber war, acting as a “home front army.” [1]

>The combined effects of direct destruction and the diversion of resources denied German forces approximately half their battle-front weapons and equipment in 1944. [2]

1. Groehler, “Strategic Conduct of the Air War", pg. 284–86
2. Overy, "Why the Allies Won", pg. 131

If you want to think that many men and the material they required wouldn't have made a difference on the eastern front be my guest.

Thanks will have a look into. Currenty creating my own "book" summarizing everything (copy paste) relevant since the english revolution in 1650. Will probably condense 15000 pages down to 1500 and I'm only missing 1939-1950 to complete it.

Yes it is; many books, especially those shortly after the war, largely ignored allied war crimes.

But Japan attacked the US first?

Why was Stalin going to attack western Europe?

rense.com/general75/makk.htm

It's a recent book, I was reading about the bombing of German cities and the murder of German POWs in it last night.

I was talking about lend lease before hostilities opened up faggot.

Yes I said that what do you not understand? I stated Japan attacked the U.S. first, however Germany declared war after when the U.S. officially went to war. Germany was bound to go to war against the U.S. as long as they were allies with Japan.

Oh alright, yes I agree that now there are more books on it. Sorry I should have better explained what I was trying to. Meant a lot of early books and for years after lacked a lot of information on allied war crimes.

The Molotov-Ribbentrop non aggression pact was just a means to an end for Stalin. Soviet spies told Stalin waaaaay before the Wehrmacht Sappers crossed the border that Hitler was planning to attack the soviets, but Stalin didn't cared, in fact the same day he was attacked he sent a shipment of grain seized from the Ukranian population (look into the Holodomor massacre) to feed Hitler's army. He did this because his original plan was to let Hitler wage war against the whole of Western Europe and he would come later with his massive red army and paint himself as a liberator. Which is the exact same thing he did after they took Poland from the Nazis and claimed that the Katyn massacre was a Nazi thing. Having said that, without the American help and constant military aid the Soviets would have got their asses handed to them by the Wehrmacht.. you gotta remember that soviet troops were riding on American trucks, eating American food and shooting American ammo and they still had 20 million KIAs

National Socialism and Soviet Socialism are brothers.. Stalin was no communist he was a socialist just like hitler.. you are commenting on stuff you don't know

Poland got fucked over by everyone it's pretty sad desu.

Hitler was paranoid, and believed he could nip the soviet threat in the bud. But by the time they actually comitted to barbarossa, it was too late

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It is.. people just say ohh Auschwitz-Birkenau poor poles.. but they never question themselves that the Nazis learned concentration camp engineering from the Gulags and that the soviets did not destroy a single concentration camp after they "won" WW2 in fact they continued to use them

dammit can't find it as a pdf, dafuq

Here's an interesting documentary, about how the Allies created the "good war" myth after the war- shrunken Jewish heads etc, and shown on the BBC.

Allies created the good war myth? what you mean by that? As far as I know Just war was created by St. Thomas Aquinas

Because expansion was a part of their ideology, spread the revolution as well as gaining access to more resources and space. Stalin would have made a move once the Wehrmacht and western Europe were exhausted from fighting each other. He wasn't a good guy or one that I would ever trust, dude was paranoid and was a conqueror just like all the other leaders.

Where is the docu?

I torrented it m8, in mobi or epub, but you could convert it.

Exactly!! I will just leave this here youtube.com/watch?v=Q378ZKeTjb0

There is a swastika on one of the pages, it is illegal. Do not pass go, go directly to jail.

About the second world war, which we are discussing.
Are you a zika HueHue?

It's an Adam Curtis film.
youtube.com/watch?v=eJ3RzGoQC4s

Once again the US bares its ignorance for all the world to see.

Doesn't communism use aspects of socialism? Or can it?

based russia thank you for fight germans in ww2 rip your millions

xox

Aussie -kun

I am brazilian but no i'm not huehue... my family comes from germany so i'm way more intelligent than the brazilian norm. All i'm asking is, agains who they "invented" this good war? Nazis? They deserved to get shot as much as the soviets.. nothing but a bunch of socialists fucks on both sides

That isn't a Russian flag.

Kek just did they same.

No we did. But you helped. It wouldnt have been possible to win without making thr Nazis fight a war on two fronts.

America was "allied" with Stalin, so we kind of did win.

Nevertheless, only 2 wars since Americas founding that we have not won.

According to Marx socialism is the start for a communist society. There is Capitalism, the proletariat joint forces with the State, kill every opposer and Capitalist, create Socialism.. the socialist state implements policies to make itself smaller and smaller until it stops existing and a stateless, communist society takes place. At least that was Marx's illusion

youtube.com/watch?v=eJ3RzGoQC4s
Watch the doc.

Socialism is the stepping stone to communism. Communism is just more government power then socialism..

Were they brothers? one was nationalist and the other was jewish, pretty different things.

I will thx for the link

He doesn't know that...

>American Education [2]

The nazis used a hybrid economy didn't they? Socialism mixed with some capitalism or am I totally off?

The base of the theory is the same. According to Marx's manifesto the proletariat would revolt agains their masters, but the very opposite happened in WWI, national socialism came to take the place of classic Marxist theory, instead of class warfare Hitler used nationalism and race, just like Mussolini in Italy. The soviets used the class struggle like Marx lectured.
They all claimed to be the scientific way to make a perfect society and both failed miserably

shortly put i believe the war effort was failing and he truly believed soviets were going to launch an offensive on germany. he and his men sensed it coming.

he was in battles on the western front america was taking normandy all the while he felt soviets were going to invade him from the east.

he flipped shit and decided it was time to strike the soviets and hoping that it'd be a victory. he thought hte soviets wouldn't be able to defend a full on blitzkreig but as history played out for him, and napoleon, he sure was wrong.

Not to mention, German invasion was delayed by Hitler's insistence. I think it happened towards the end of June. German armies smashed through the conscripts, tanks, and weapons assembled on the front and drove a blade into SU defenses but on the grand strategy level did not prioritize capturing Moscow, which caused the defeat as winter set in and troop movements from the summer uniform wearing Germans froze to death and their over-engineered tanks broke down.

Another system that can never exist lol, makes sense.

Both of them used to some extent. The Reich didn't outright seized private property but controlled it's owners maintaining an atmosphere of normality (only jes had no property).. the soviets killed the owners and places bureaucrats in their places while maintaining the same structure, the workers still had a boss and worse, this time is they revolted they would get a nice bullet on the back of their head like millions did

Yeah I've always thought of socialism being a stepping stone to communism, we'll at least most of the time.

Yeah the change of focus from Moscow was a huge mistake as well as the late start. Plus the supplies from England helped in the defence of Moscow.

The only system that can exist is Free market capitalism because it wasn't made up by a thinker or scientist.. it is natural and spontaneous, that's why it works, an idea that is so good that requires force to happen is a bit stupid in my opinion but most people fail to realize that

>it's owners maintaining an atmosphere of normality (only jes had no property)..

You are so wrong it hurts. Even at the Pogroms in 1938, Hitler send out the SS to protect jewish stores and property because of the riots because he knew everybody would think he ordered the riots.

In addition, during the Weimar republic, around 85% of all stocks in germany were owned by jews. By 1938 under Hitler, jews still owned 1/3 of the Stocks of the Reich.