Was he right

Was he right

'course he was, AVE

White makes right.

White people invented right and wrong. It's whatever we damn well say it is.

He realized that brutal fascism is the first step of advanced civilization. Democracy couldn't work in a post-apocalyptic wasteland. Humans had been knocked to the bottom, and the only way to rebuild was to start from the bottom.

>Italians
>white
>not nuking everybody and taking your own independent New Vegas and reshaping the wasteland in your own image
Sucks to be fags like you

He's a luddite, yet the Romans he loves so much were known for using any cutting edge technology to their advantage. He's a dumbass.

>Thesis and antithesis

I wished they had implemented a slave trade system in the game like they wanted to during development.

Looks like I just have to be happy being a slaver in FO2 and kind of in FO3.

>I never talked to him!
He used Romans because it was organized and different enough to catch the attention of his potential followers, not because he particularly cared for it. It was 100% psyops.

In the environment he lived in yes. The idea of implementing a modern style democracy in a post apocalyptic world like the NCR wants to do is retarded. A Roman style government would be much more suitable for that level of development and to start absorbing the tribal people into a cohesive political entity.

And House is full of shit. Even with some old world tech lying around there's no way to reindustrialize the entire nation, civilize everyone, and send people into space within fifty years. It would be worse than soviet level hell.

>start over trying to structure society in a way that will help it adapt to the new world
vs
>start over trying to emulate the old world, including all its flaws
Caesar has the right idea but the execution is a bit off.

He's not a luddite, he's against creating a society that relies on the irreplacable machines and infrastructure of the old world.

Precisely. I'm surprised at how many people fail to grasp this concept.

>Assimilated all tribes
>Create an artificial group
>Don't have any plan for civilization other than "muh war and plunder"
>Literally sandniggers on red costumes
>MUH ROMAN HERITAGE
>NO DRUGS - NO DEGENERACY "idle animation smoking a cigarette" "most slave owners are repressed homosexuals"

The Ncr is for cucks.
House is a kike
YES MAN IS THE ANSWER

>Democracy couldn't work in a post-apocalyptic wasteland
Why?

Nah, his ideology is equivalent to Pisslam

The flaw in his master plan is that the Legion will collapse into factional infighting the second he dies and he's like 70 years old with a fucking brain tumor.

His most likely successor, Legate Lanius, is a berserker retard with zero solutions to anything aside from "FUCKING CRUCIFY IT"

This.

I need to play through that game for the 10,001st time, but first I need to beat fallout 4 on survival mode.

It's worse torture than crucifixion.

The people were too fractured and spread out. They were savages. You can't unite savages under democracy. By the events in the game, the Legion had already conquered much of the American southwest. You know what the people in his territories don't have to deal with? Deathclaws, ghouls, and bandits. Sure, he enslaved some people, but that's how advanced civilization always begins.

How did the NCR more or less establish a functional state already in the bandit and mutant infested shitholes around Shady Sands?

>Fallout 4 on survival
I haven't even made it through a single playthrough, it wouldn't let me do the ending I wanted my first time through because dude glitches lmao and I'd already fucked up doing the other ones by then. The game has shit for replay value, otherwise I'd be more inclined to finish any of the other ones I started.
>tfw it was my Happy Merchant character, too
This, Caesar's Legion is the ISIS of the Mojave Wasteland.

Lanius seemed fairly reasonable when you talk to him before the bossfight. You can talk him out of continuing the Legion's invasion of the dam in many different ways, so he can be reasoned with, he's a good (in the sense that he knows tactics and instills terror and blind obedience in his troops) commander and the whole Legion would probably accept him as Caesar's successfor.

From what I can remember Lanius has nothing but disdain for Vulpes, but he surely realizes that he's valuable and an asset to the Legion. Vulpes can keep his head cool and could act as a necessary counterweight to Lanius' bruteness.

He is only 55 and considering he is like the most powerful guy in the Legion and the only 1 that has access to advanced medical equipment(which would probably improve considerably if he conquers the more advanced wastelanders in the west). He could probably survive for 20 more years if you remove his tumor and it hasn't spread and that would be more then enough time to create a stable sucession, probably with the Courier as his heir if he joins but with Lanius keeping military command.

>The people were too fractured and spread out.
Not any more than people at the same time in 1825
>They were savages
No they weren't. Only the bandits really, which were artificially inflated in numbers due to it being a videogame and needing something to shoot.

The legion has ideals, but like a liberal fails to follow through with them. Technology got them into this mess, yet cesar uses an autodoc. Smoking is degenerate yet all of them do it. The legion is weak. It's followers will only follow so far till their values crumble away.

I'm not saying the NCR is the best solution, but at the very least, people are free to form and follow their own values. Other people get a steady paycheck, and if shit does go down, there's someone there to have your back.

Shitheaps like cesar's legion aren't built to last despite cesar's best intentions. Building an empire on fear only leads to rebellion.

They used a G.E.C.K to kickstart the settlement, got by, but just barely, all while being fucked by the Khans and radscorpions. The Vault Dweller showed up and helped them and then Aradesh and Tandi ran the NCR like democratically elected dictators until their deaths.

People are naturally too selfish to cooperate or obey laws that aren't brutally enforced.

Even today in modern civilization it takes groups of police roaming the streets snatching people up and putting them in literal cages for years at a time and not even THAT prevents crime.

The infustructure wouldn't exist in a post apocalyptic society for any modern system of consequences to have any effect so the most practical method would be nail criminals to post in full view of the populace and say "Look. That's what happens if you don't cooperate.".

Good question. Not everything in the universe makes sense. The social system you see in some groups like the NCR and the Followers isn't what you'd expect in that environment and with that sort of (lack of) infrastructure. Social ideas, ideology, religion, etc. are pretty contingent on the level of technology and urbanization among other things.

This is really more of a matter of whether you accept the author's intent of how the fictional universe is structured. If they say the NCR works somehow then somehow it works I guess.

Mr. House fit the same role of being an authoritarian leader who would restore order to the wasteland, but could do so much more competently and without hurting nearly as many people.

AVE CAESAR MOTHER FUCKERS

The NCR conquers territory and then let's the people fend for themselves against the dangers of the wasteland. The Legion conquers territory, purges it in righteous fire, and leaves behind safety and prosperity for his people. Everyone likes democracy, even Caesar, but democracy can't work in such a fractured world. You have to rebuild from the ground up.

>muh dog-eat-dog post-apocalypse

The West Coast of Fallout is already post-post-apocalypse by this point. There's no good reasons to go back to brutal authoritarianism.
He would set things back, instead of advancing them.

Joshua Graham and Mr. House both give their opinions that Lanius is a fucking moron who will run the Legion into the ground within a year of Caesar's death.

Graham knows both men better than anybody and House is a super-genius at predicting the odds of important events.

I'm really just talking out of my ass. I need to replay the game and really pay attention to the lore.

Everyone but caesar is trying to build a society exactly like the old one, using force and outright bribery in equal measure to ensure compliance in a system of government that ultimately enslaves it's people anyway. Outright slavery prevents a true industrial revolution and the ensuing population boom that follows and fucks everything up. Reduced population needs less resources, people lead lives free of profligacy and hedonistic decadence, billionaires and brahim farmers can't hijack the government and fuck the people. It's a terrible choice to make but if the end result is slavery no matter what, then it is morally obligatory to choose the option that at least has a chance. Caesar was the only one with the will and the ability to create that choice. He was right.

>there are actually people on this board that would rebuild our current political systems if given the chance to start from scratch, despite all the accumulated knowledge they had access to

Fucking digusting.

North Korea has a lot of problems yet the lowest crime rate in the world.

Crime is not one of those problems because of two words.

Public executions.

>People are naturally too selfish to cooperate or obey laws that aren't brutally enforced.
Except that's total bullshit. If a law is just, people will follow it. If a law is unjust, people will reject it. There will always be law breakers who go against the grain, but essentially people are good in nature.
>and leaves behind safety and prosperity for his people.
The "Safety" comes from no one being left. The legion IS the danger. The vegas metro area is in a state of slow renewal, and someone coming along and bulldozing all progress because they want to be top of the heap isn't fucking helping.

If you need 100 dollars, and you have $2.50, it's not helping to invest 500 dollars into a dead horse at a burnt down racetrack. Keep working till 2.50 turns into 5, then into 10, then into 20, then before you know it you have $75. It's not glamorous but it's honest and fair.

If you want to learn more about the NCR what you need to replay is Fallout 1 and Fallout 2.

80 years before New Vegas they're one smallish, friendly, troubled frontier town.

40 years before New Vegas and they already have the largest, wealthiest, most developed country on the scorched planet.

I've only ever seen screenshots of those games. Have they aged well?

Bethesda even admitted fucking up on the Legion by making them overly primitive and violent.

>Bethesda
>implying Bethesda could create factions this good
That just doesn't work.

North korea also purges huge chunks of the population yearly because it can't feed it's people. Norks are so inbred at this point, a very large percentage have too low an IQ to join the military.

So yes, they have no crime. But they have nothing worth stealing either. Rewards come with risks. It's just two sides of the same coin. Yin and yang and all that. Every developed culture has their own version of this idea, but they're all essentially the same.

Unrelated, but the same with dragons. Every advanced culture has some sort of legend about dragons.

Obsidian Entertainment made the game

Maybe, but the Legion sucks in Fallout NV. They only had a year to make the whole game so they barely expanded on the Legion quests. Did you notice how there is barely any Legion content compared to the NCR?

what image would you shape it in if not to exterminate the degenerates?

>people are naturally good.
>if a law is just people will obey it.
Now THAT'S bullshit. Everytime there's a breakdown in law enforcement people go apeshit commiting theft, rape, murder, etc.

Iraq is a good example. Mustard gas is a more effective tool for compliance than democracy.

Oblivion did the writing, and Bethesda rushed the project so instead of fleshing them out more (you can still see elements of this in Caesar's in depth speech about the nation he built back east in contrast to he cruel appearing army. Making them the unquestionably evil faction was all they could do at that point.

Controlled centers of degeneracy (i.e. the Vegas strip) to act as an outlet for the populace to satiate their lust for vice are necessary to keep the surrounding areas free of degeneracy in day to day life. When I say controlled I mean controlled, though. The strip's very few restrictions (harrassment, murder, etc) would be very strictly enforced with an army of unbribable robots. The surrounding settlements would act as a loose confederation that would be free to expand and prosper under the protection provided by my robots and the Boomer's artillery. Disputes between settlements would be decided with neutral arbitration.

I just realized that the NCR will also completely shit on the Legion if the Legion wins the Mojave.

The NCR's Mojave effort *is* a United States parallel - a poorly planned, overly expensive debacle where undertrained conscripts are thrown into a meat grinder by vain politicians.

But that's because the Mojave isn't the NCR. If Caesar got his wish and his army actually crossed into NCR territory for a "final conquest" they would get fucking shredded. Massive numbers of hardened veterans finally given a free hand over the bureaucrats with familiar terrain, shorter supply lines and even limited air/armor support.

The "North Vietnamese Victory" didn't end with the Viet Kong marching through the streets of Washington, DC, catch my drift?

If we remove bandages will you die?

> Using spears in a world with laser rifles
No he was wrong. The best thing for new Vegas is independence. New Vegas had its own culture for 200 years and the people would fail to live under NCR or legion rule

The moment Ceasar dies, the Legion collapses and all that work would be for nothing.

Probably they just didnt have time to flesh them out more but it's a one man show where brutality and not intelligence or wisdom advances one far enough. Oh sure if you were with Ceasar at the beginning you'd be far up but if you were conscripted early on you'd be molded into a cruel and mindless barbarian.

I was not aware ICBM silos had wi-fi.