I am triggered now

Surely some Ameribugers will come up with some pseudo-libertarian brainy explanation as per why it is perfectly logical and ethical to sell for $ 400 a life-saving item that costs few bucks to produce.

Protip: you can't. Only anarcho-capitalists will defend such pharamaceutical industries.

Since this is America, I argue nobody posting with an American flag on Sup Forums should dare complain that there are too.many libtards in the US.

US capitalism is literally out of control and there is no invisible hand setting things straight.

I am not surprised people go full libtards in a place where lifesaving and virtually inexpensive items are allowed to be so expensive.

youre not entitled to their product

This
Fpbp

No one is saying you have to buy their pen. Any company can make epi pens and sell them at cost. If Bernie is concerned about it, he should start a company, and start selling them at cost or giving them away for free.

But he wont.

This.
A gun may save my life as well but I'm not going to bitch about the price.

But muh competitors will offer an alternative. That's the beauty of capitalism: when you know someone needs your product to continue living, you get to let them decide how much their life is worth by charging them whatever you want.

...

the BIGGEST problem with the medical product industry is that they lobby to keep their patents forever

if they had a no extensions ever policy of like 10/15 years medicine would be so cheap in america it wouldnt even be funny

take that one nigger that raised the price of that aids medication by like 500% or w/e it is only because that drug MADE IN THE 1960s is still protected by a patent cause they keep getting it extended

Because a combination of patents + FDA approval makes bringing new drugs - or in this case, drug delivery systems - to market nearly fucking impossible.

Government fucks shit up again.

Why shouldn't a person value profit over people they haven't met?

Like what, I gotta sell cars at a loss because some nigger has to walk to work?

Thank Obama and his health care plan, it is the literal cause of this, cause it removed those fucking limitations for them to do this!

Which is why Sherkeli did what he did, to prove a point!

healthcare in the usa is not a free market. Don't pretend it is.

yes you get it --> high price, high profit --> strong incentive to develop a substitute
Also pharmaceutical companies are protected by patents, dont know yet if this is good or bad

>a corporation values making money, can you believe that?!

I'm not going to defend big pharma, but this is a retarded fucking argument. Bernie's like 1000 years old, he should know better by now

Meme country gets it. Drug companies are businesses, not charities. It costs a drug company about a billion dollars to go from idea to clinical application. They sure as shit didn't spend that money for no reason. It was an investment.

You guys say this shit but if it happened to you and you couldn't afford it I'm sure you'd feel different.

This is why I'm strongly in favor of shorting patents and copyrights, so other companies could make this same thing and brutally undercut them, driving the price down.

We live in an overly litigious society and the original intent of such protections has been completely raped and violated.

>medicine can literally save a life
Why the fuck would you complain about a measly $400 price tag as opposed to death?

Patents are not libertarian.

>Create a product that literally saves peoples fucking lives in a situation where otherwise they would be dead within minutes
>People complain it costs too much

then fucking die then you ungrateful pieces of shit

Protip: as user pointed out, we could buy alternative products IF it was patent-free.
But since it is not (as it seems; possibly I should lurk more), then Amerifags have to cope with such a price.

Protip 2: when something becomes ridiculously expensive, black market ensues.

Protip 3: how would you rate a company whose income is determined mostly by items it sells at inflated prices just because it can lobby a country to keep it so?

I can't believe there are people that still support Bernie. He is a liberal Trump, a demagogue and fraud.

>since 2009
Hmm, its almost like something happened between 2009 and now that redefined the healthcare industry in the United States. Really made me thunk

I had never heard that before. I believe you, but do you have any sources for further reading?

Wrong. You are absolutely entitled to their product or the property of any individual or group in the society, because it is the society that grants property rights. No society in the world enforces their own destruction.

because of all the (yous) im gonna elaborate a little bit further. When Barnie says " it costs only a few dollars to make the product" hes referring to the marginal cost, this is the cost of producing one extra unit.
For pharmaceutical companies these tend to be very low, but the fixed costs are very high thanks to regislation , taxes, testing etc...
In order to make a profitn the price needs to be set high

Martin Skrelli raised the price of his drug to fund R&D for a better drug that doesnt eat away at the patient's bone marrow.
Also the insurance companies eat the new costs.

We don't pretend.
We DEMAND healthcare becomes free in the US.

Holy shit. I'm visiting Dagoland and their hospital are cleaner and neater than ours.

Yes, they have some corruption... and economy is bearish and sluggish. But life expectancy is exstremely high and healthcare is gold standard compared to Ameriburgya

if it costs only a few bucks to make why doesnt someone else make it, sell it cheaper and drive those fags out of business?
is the thing patented? make a slightly different pen, epinephrine itself is not patented

Martin Shkrelli, his podcasts are a mix of top tier Albanian trolling and next level autism when it comes to explaining the pharmaceutical industry to regular people.

Natural selection.

>Protip: as user pointed out, we could buy alternative products IF it was patent-free.

But if it was patent free, it wouldn't exist, because pharma are fucking crushing and almost exclusively covered by the private sector.

user, do you mind if I save your post to a text document for later use? I feel like this was worded about as perfectly as anyone could.

HAHAHA FUCK YOU I'M DOING IT ANYWAY AND THERE'S NOTHING YOU CAN DO TO STOP ME

I would prefer if we changed the patent system for drugs entirely whereby instead of giving a temporary monopoly you force competitors to pay royalties in perpetuity. That way you don't hurt the research incentives as badly.

Yes lets just run our economy purely on feels. What could possibly go wrong.

Exactly.
This translates into:
>you can be as a statist as you want in the fantasyland of your narrow and cognitively biased mind
>but when reality is forced upon you, you are crushed by the phenomenal experience, and there is no universalist ethics that can fix your moral drama

Shkrelambe has a podcast??

I imagine it has to do with the long-term room-temperature shelf stability.

You aren't going to change anyone's mind here. Until they are the ones forking over 400 bucks so their kid doesn't suffocate to death they will always give a snide ass reply and defend gouging everyday Americans.

They preach nationalism then cheer on corporations fucking over their own countrymen for a profit. These niggers shit on jews and quote Mein Kampf while sucking off capitalism.

Pretty much just as retarded as liberals who fight against free speech.

Land of the free lol

its jewtube and he released videos regularly

no defense
gtk
rwn

How much did they spend on developing it?

Oh yeah I watch his periscopes. I thought you meant an actual podcast

go to doc
ask for alternative
show you are not worthless
get prescription
buy (pic) online

Suppose you cannot pay.

Holy shit are people idiots here?

John Rawls is hated, but his reasoning was:
>before making a moral choice, always picture yourself in the worst case scenario

a.k.a.
>the one who slices the cake should be the last one to make a choice

Is it so hard to picture yourself in different shoes at a different time of your life?

>for this price
>"send your corpse to work" day to buy it in the after life

what a dumb fuck
no one pays that much for medicine,insurance companies cover most of it,if not all.

Even if the entire society needed an epi-pen, your argument would still be totalitarian nonsense.

Pharma jew here. These price hikes tend to usually happen because of regulations or events that damage a company financially. Example: Viagra went from around $30/tab to ~$50/tab when Pfizer lost millions on its merger with Allergan being blocked by the government and its stock collapsing.
Otherwise drugs are expensive because some drug entities can cost up to $20 billion to bring to market and take decades to develop. If Mylan were to sell epipens at $5 a pop, they'd go broke in a couple days.
Hasn't been the case in a long while. In fact AstraZeneca just recently got raped in court because they wanted to extend their patent on Crestor by getting an orphan disease designation. They spent tens of millions on a pediatric trial only to be told that generic rosuvastatin would hit the market anyway. Lmao what cucks. Makes sense though. Crestor was a multi-billion drug. The supreme court couldn't resist those delicious Medicare savings that come from approving generics.

The patent is the mixture of epinephrine and the autoinjector, there are plenty generics that use different ones.

Ever heard of PATENTS?

>You are absolutely entitled to their product or the property of any individual or group in the society
Come and take it faggot

John Rawls was a shit philosopher and his fucking regarded veil makes no sense. If a drug is $100, your surplus value for a purchase is theoretically infinite, because it will literally save you from death and nothingness. Same if it's $400, or $1000. If you cannot afford it, that's on you. You still don't deserve it. If it's that big a deal, go fucking steal it.

>Insurance companies

You mean tax payers. We subsidize our health care now. Tax payers are pay 400 bucks a pop, not the insurance companies. When your government forced you to buy insurance it's a tax.

LIE!

No pharmaceutical company in the US does its own research without government funding unless it is to:
1. sell existing products for other uses.
2. change the product just enough to preserve patents.
All origional reserach is done with government money with almost no examples of drug companies developing their own drugs independently. they wait for some university to invent it, then buy the patent.
The vast amount of the expense of drugs under patent goes to advertizing, pharmaceutical reps, and Doctors vacations.

FDA testing is expensive but in no way justifies the cost of a product.

It has been proposed that most of profits in the industry come from patent protected products, and all of the shortages come from generic manipulations.
Information is hard to come by because the corrupt congress won't write disclosure laws.

If we made drug companies open their books, you'd never defend them again.

>show you are not worthless

why is this important? the doctor wont do his job if he doesnt like you? Is that how it works in malaysia?

MOMS GONNA FREAK

Thanks user, I'll be moving into your house tomorrow!

Be sure to have breakfast ready.

Nobody denies that being in that situation must suck balls. But you seem to deny that human action has a cost.

it's almost like obamacare completely killed competition in the pharmaceutical industry and democrats won't acknowledge it because they are low IQ, low information idiots who don't udnerstand how incentives work

Tell us more pill Jew. I want to know your secrets

thistbhfam

I work in the pharmaceutical industry. Basically this. These retards have no fucking clue how much time, effort, and money is poured into those products behind the scenes. Yeah, the pill itself costs a dollar to make. But that doesn't take into account all the R&D costs that went into making it. It doesn't take into account the fact that the vast majority of study drugs never even make it to market, and the ones that do need to be able to generate a profit high enough to offset the costs of all the would-be products that failed preclinical/clinical studies or whatever else. They're also not taking into account the ongoing studies that are done on these drugs after they've come to market. They're not taking into account all the people performing safety/pharmacovigilance studies, outcomes research, medical information, etc etc etc.

It's about as shit-tier an argument as saying that movie should only cost 10 cents because that's how much a blu-ray disc costs to press. Not that I don't pirate media as well, because I don't give a fuck, but the point I'm making is that up-front costs of a physical product are not all there is.

>implying open source is not a thing in other industries

Suppose it becomes open source after 10 years.
This gives time for the company to produce, make up for the costs, and earn a profit.

Not a space-ship tier profit... but maybe a Bahamas yacht profit... still a profit.

Then it is all unlocked and suddenly the State can produce its own low-price shit.

It's not that without long-term patents profit is impossible.

niggers get this shit for free. guberment pay for it

proof your iq is higher than the bottom 0.1%
requires knowledge on how to inject epinephrine (not into a vessel mind you, as in you're trying to miss your IV)

>suppose you cannot pay
>what is medicaid and medicare
If you still want to be an uninsured cuck, I am literally looking at $30 injectors and per vial its between 10 cents and a dollar.

jump into Etna

Yeah I am going to give my 1 year old daughter's daycare teacher a syringe and vial of epinephrine lol

Underrated post.

Its main competitor just had a massive recall because of a faulty delivery system. If they were making bank off of it wouldn't someone else jump in for the easy money?

India already does this, but TPP will ensure this won't happen anymore.

I just needed a box where I could shout without running into the problem of annoying my neighbours.

I'm not expectint pats on the head, if that's what you think. ;-)

The drug isn't patented, only the delivery system.

Here's your protip: just buy a vile of epi and some syringes.

>Protip: as user pointed out, we could buy alternative products IF it was patent-free.
It would still have to pass FDA in the US. I'm sure this company is gouging people, but Mexico doesn't have to pass regulations or pay if someone thinks the product killed someone and decided to sue. The lawyers are the ones making out like bandits on this shit.

Well now I have to go to Sup Forums. I go there for the memes and stay there for the shitty /got/ general.

I had to pay $600 for it just this year because there is no generic form for babies (daughter has peanut allergy) and I have an extremely high deductible shit insurance (i'm a school teacher)

The word "patent" was in the post, you silly bitch.

They have already made a huge profit that covered all expenses. Don't worry. Big pharma will be fine even if we deprive it of this monopoly.

>implying you don't have to refrigerate it
>implying your 4 y.o. kid who is allergic because of Capitalist pollution can inject himself with a syringe

Mah nigga, I also work in Pharma and fully support your input.

Also, I can tell you its AMGEN, also do not invest in them any time soon.

keep your daughter away from peanuts. Calling CPS immediately!

If you're paying for an Epipen out of pocket, you're going to be paying a lot more at the end of the year when the government notices you didn't buy Obama's mandatory health insurance.

Thanks, but I'd gladly pay $400 once instead of a 25% starting income tax for the rest of my life. Your retarded opinion is that it's okay to let the government steal shittons of our money and spend most of it on blowing up sand niggers instead of letting them do what they want with it. It is literally not my problem if you can't save money you cocksucker, don't demand my shit to pay for your ineptitude.

>Patents are not libertarian.

What?

Basically medications will always be expensive or Pharma will die and medications won't be developed at all because the FDA requires massive amounts of evidence to approve a product. Their approval is only ~30 million to apply for (don't know exact financials) but before that you need at least a couple multicenterr clinical trials that cost a couple hundred million usd each. Plus you just spent billions digging through different molecules until you found one that actually achieves a desired effect without killing people.
This is why the industry moved to rare diseases and biologics.
Rare diseases allow for shorter and cheaper trials before approval and sometimes give longer patents. Biologic are difficult to copy since they're complex peptides so a generic company has a hard time proving bioequivalence.

Because the FDA is so strict, you get really high quality meds in the US. But you pay appropriately too.

Patents haven't existed for most of human history.

Their purpose was to grant monopolies in order to encourage invention; but they were intended to last for a short period of time because monopolies have many bad implications.

The length of patents has not shortened to match the increased rate of innovation/invention.

The effect of patents slows the improvement of existing inventions because of the above.

The effect of patents increases the cost burden on companies because of litigation where their inventions overlap or are 'too similar'.

There are entire companies who's only mode of operation is to buy patents, sit on them or license them out, and sue anyone who comes near 'their' ideas.

Epinephrine isn't patented though. Make your own delivery system or use a syringe.

Epinephrine isn't under patent. Everyone talking about patents is this thread is a fucking festering uninformed dipshit peddler.

>Epi was discovered in 1900 and is shit-simple to synthesize. People are paying for the injector I guess.

Tell us more.

want top tech, pay top $
earn ghetto $, learn ghetto techniques

How does it feel to sell poisons for conditions easily controlled by herbs? Why should anyone feel sorry for companies lobbying to kill us?

To fund research to save poor fags in 3rd world shitholes

If I have a $3000 deductible with my shitty mandated insurance how is that any different than paying out of pocket? I am paying hundreds a month for the privilege of having an awful $3000 deductible... how is that better than paying hundreds a month and not having a huge deductible and having government insurance?

I have never seen or heard of a person using an epipen.

Anyway, the money is needed for R&D, and wouldn't insurance companies just pay the bill?

Also, even if it is $600 thats less then the price of an iPhone, and everyone has one of those...

You have to pay for the injector. My daughter's daycare and later school is not going to allow her to just come in with a vial of epinephrine dumbass

>Thanks, but I'd gladly pay $400 once instead of a 25% starting income tax for the rest of my life

You're already doing it though. Obamacare is subsidizing your insurance with others. You think Shaniqua and her kids can afford the same insurance as you yet they get the same and sometimes even better coverage under the ACA.

Bro, you pay more for insurance than you would if you weren't already paying for peoples medicine. 400 dollar EpiPens are being paid for by someone because the poor have them.

Whatever though man, I don't support socialized medicine. I just believe it's fucked to gouge Americans for things they need. Not saying give it away for free but 400 bucks is a lot of money for a shot of fucking epinephrine in my book. We literally have the shit laying around in our ambulance because we use it so often.

coglione ti laurei in farmacologia e dai una versione a prezzo ridotto del farmaco
Poi sei davvero scemo, pensi non ci siano riduzioni in.base al.reddito?pensi che agli ospedali venga passata a quel prezzo?
Guarda meno.video di.Michael moore e studia di più frocio

lmao, obamacare at work

>I get all my science-y readings from naturalnews.com and a madeupmonkeyshit.com

They can't deny her medicine she needs to live.

In anarcho-capitalism, another company will just reverse engineer and copy it because copyright is a bullshit concept that can only exist inside a state.

>If you cannot afford it, that's on you
Now suppose we are a village.
And suppose we have a Constitution that values human life above all.
I am aware the US might not have human rights shit in their Amendments... but let's pretend.

So, in this make-believe game, all villagers agree that everyhing should be done to ensure every individual's safety.

Yet, many villagers disagree to subsidize Emily and her kids because they say if she cannot afford a life saving item, it's her fault.

I hope you'll be able to see the inconsistency between their ethical resolve and their actual actions.