>Correctly point out that the Accords subject the Avengers to the political agendas of the members of the United Nations, severely limiting their activities.
>Unwilling to compromise his morals by signing up for something he doesn't believe it on the possibility they might change the legislation in the future.
>Ready to cease his activities in accordance with the government's demands, only returns to action when his longtime best friend who's been subjected to torture and brainwashing for over 70 years is target for assassination. Even then, he intervenes to bring his friend in alive so he can be properly prosecuted in accordance with due process.
>Ready to compromise for the sake of his friends until he learns the government has already broken its promise to leave those unwilling to sign up free to return to civilian life by labeling Scarlet Witch a WDM with no rights and locking her up.
>Finds out his friend has been framed and that there's compelling evidence the mastermind behind the conspiracy is planning to unleash five dangerous supersoldiers to destroy the entire country, and your friend is the only one who has experience with them and can fight them.
>Recruit friends to help you stop the supersoldiers, fully alerting them they're outside the law and will face repercussions if caught.
>Attempt to convince Iron Man of the threat at hand and how time-sensitive it is, but he refuses to listen and it all escalates into a brawl.
>Give up your mantle in the end because you feel like you no longer represent its ideals.
Captain America objectively only did one thing wrong: Not telling Iron Man the truth about his parents.
>The events of the film came about due to Cap's own negligence because he was playing into the villain's hand the entire time >He was right
Joseph Gray
Why was the movie a million times better than the comic it was adapted from?
Michael Parker
That's what I like about this film. No matter who side you're on you're still a loser because the simple truth is that everything would have been avoided if both parties actually talked to one another.
Jacob Thompson
>has no problem fighting for a jingoistic country in the forties >omg muh political agendas! this is bad!
I am sure the UN would be against them fighting off aliens and stuff like Ultron (which wouldn't even exist without them)
I guess it was fine until he had just to kill kids on the western front.
and Scarlet Witch is a WMD
Cooper Reed
Not really. Zemo just wanted Bucky in the compound so he could brainwash the location of the Siberian outpost out of him. Everything else he didn't account for, though it worked out for him in the end.
Daniel Morales
>Implying Tony was the wrong
Kayden Allen
>I should be allowed to do whatever I want because I have an idiotic super power
Adrian Lewis
>Not really. Uh..yes really. Did you even watch the film?
Camden Hernandez
Because it wasn't written by Hack Millar.
Ryder Lopez
>has no problem fighting for a jingoistic country in the forties
He went there to fight for freedom, not kill wantomly. That's the sole reason he was chosen for the program.
And then he spent the entire war fighting an actual super-science death cult.
Jeremiah Martinez
If Ironman loves the goverment so much why didn't he share his armor tech with them? (Black friend in mkIV does not count)
Juan Wright
Zemo studied Cap's actions and knew that he would bring about when he didn't comply with the Accords and break up the Avengers. The only thing he didn't plan on was Iron Man being at the facility which worked well for him anyways.
Henry Robinson
>If Ironman loves the goverment so much why didn't he share his armor tech with them?
because in the first Iron Man movie he learned that his tech had wound up in the hands of terrorist
Dominic Gray
It was Obadiah who was working with Ten Rings. Not the goverment.
Charles Howard
>"We have to be held accountable" >Locks up friends for breaking the law >"You killed my mother? I'm going to fucking murder you"
If Tony had killed Bucky, do you really think he'd of just turned himself over the the law?
Liam Russell
I don't think Zemo even accounted for the Accords, senpai.
Brandon Russell
>I don't think Zemo even accounted for the Accords He did. That's the whole point of him framing Bucky
Tyler Gonzalez
He framed Bucky to smoke him out.
Andrew Harris
I love how when Cap acts out with his emotions he's considered justified but when Iron Man sees the person who is responsible for his mother's death standing right beside him he should be cool with it. Uh..yeah that was the entire point dumbass, framing Bucky to weed him up so Cap would act like the puppet he is was teh set up for his plan.
Wyatt Price
No it's not. The whole point of framing Bucky was to get the world hunting for him so he could then gain access to Bucky just like he did in the movie. The Accords and everything else were all "and this also happened"
Zemo's plan was really straight forward. Frame Bucky -> Let Government/Cap bring him in -> Gain access to Bucky as the psychiatrist evaluating him -> Get access to the big secret he had concerning the Starks -> Share secret and break apart Avengers.
Landon Green
>Zermo didn't know about the Accords >The Avengers would just have a regular spat about Cap saving Bucky with no Accords The reason why the conflict came about was the ideology between the two parties if the Accords aren't in the equation it doesn't work. Zemo know about them ahead of time which is why Cap's actions were predictable/
Oliver Garcia
If it was just about Bucky then his plan wouldn't have worked since Iron Man stopped what he was doing to help them once he realized who was the true enemy.
Kayden Martin
Look, dude all I'm sayin is Havok came around. Was it his own choice? Maybe not, but he did come around.
Ryder Diaz
>severely limiting their activities
Their activities needed to be limited. They need a boss. They need to have someone to tell them no and make them stick to it. They keep fucking up. Also, they're less than ten people on a planet. There's nothing they can find out that's happening 5,000 miles away that someone already 5,000 miles away wouldn't be in a better position to deal with.
>Unwilling to compromise his morals
Unwilling to take orders. Which is what soldiers do. They answer to people.
> labeling Scarlet Witch a WDM with no rights and locking her up
SW *is* a wmd and was just involved in an incident that killed dozens of people. When cops shoot someone,even if it's totally justified, they have to be investigated and cleared. The UN was under no obligation to take her or anyone else's word for it. Especially since she was just working for an omnicidal robot last year.
Imagine a Jane doe. Jane was on tv six months ago month helping a Mecha Trump 2.4 try to blow up all of Mexico and turn the ashes into a space wall cause he had a dream about space immigrants. She changed her mind, at some point, but not until after she derailed a Green Co. train that destroyed the suburbs a few miles away. Billions in property damage. All sort of people injured. Her former partner destroyed all of Morelia before he was stopped. Last month she was having a fist fight in the street with a shoplifter and you don't know the exact details, but something blew up and killed your cousin John. You going to be ok with her doing whatever in the fuck she wants? Or are you going to demand a thorough investigation and demand that she be contained in the mean time?
Joseph Ward
You don't think it's a little hypocritical for Tony to try and murder someone after taking the moral high ground, after he's locked up his friends for violating the accords?
Tony has a right to be pissed, but he's not allowed to be judge, jury and executioner.
Isaac Howard
The only reason why the Avengers are even after Bucky is through an order from the Accords. He have to have known about them prior or else his plan wouldn't have worked because there would have been no reason for the conflict other than keeping BP from killing Bucky
Nolan Collins
He never acted on moral high ground just out of guilt, and its not really hypocritical when he never followed the Accords policies and blatantly disobeyed them to go help Cap and Bucky.
Liam Wood
>If Tony had killed Bucky, do you really think he'd of just turned himself over the the law?
That would have been a slam dunk.
>You killed an internationally wanted superpowered assassin who had a body count in the triple digits in the process of "taking him in", huh?
>Here's your medal.
He might have not personally reacted very well afterwards, but I doubt he'd have seen much in the way of legal problems.
Justin Perry
>Unwilling to take orders. Which is what soldiers do. They answer to people.
Take orders from who? For all that he knows the entire system is at the hands of (((hydra))). He didn't dance for the USO on nazi germany to be a pawn of Hitler's heirs.
Thomas Garcia
>They keep fucking up. By saving the world multiple times from dangers the regular officials would have no chance against with extremely low collateral damage, given the highly populated centers where these dangers break out. Any red tape around them would only make their job of world-saving that much harder and the only smart decision the higher ups could make is "Do what you did last time again"
>They answer to people. Who were infiltrated to the fucking gills by enemy agents a few months ago. Cap has every right to be suspicious of authority that came about in his absence.
>The UN was under no obligation to take her or anyone else's word for it. No, but she's still entitled to due processes which hasn't happened if she isn't given an opportunity to defend herself in a public hearing. Did they think they could just trick her into being put under house arrest for the rest of her life?
Hunter Harris
>Look, dude all I'm sayin is Havok came around. > Was it his own choice? Maybe not, but he did come around.
Wrong thread holmes.
Jackson Ward
>The only reason why the Avengers are even after Bucky is through an order from the Accords.
Different guy, Zemo's plan didn't require that the avengers take Bucky, just that Bucky gets taken. Zemo's plan did not require the accords.
Brandon Bennett
Did you not see Winter Soldier where he became disillusioned with the government?
Logan Diaz
>Take orders from who?
Their superior officers. You run up the chain high enough, then it's from elected officials who, in theory, answer to the people.
>For all that he knows the entire system is at the hands of (((hydra)))
Then he, like all soldiers can deny unlawful orders. They cannot however become freelance soldiers. Even mercenaries answer to someone.
>By saving the world multiple times from dangers the regular officials would have no chance against
That's not an argument against oversight. The fact is that the guys planning shit can't be the guys in the shit. That's been a fact of military tactics since the dawn of time. The mistakes they made in the beginning of Civil War? Those were leadership mistakes. Those were planning mistakes.
When there's fatalities in any other endevour humans do, they generally stop what they're doing and at least ask "how can we insure this doesn't happen again. Cap doesn't ask himself those questions anymore.
>Any red tape around
Every time there's dangerous work to be done, there's rules to follow. Any time there's a militry operation, there's rules to be followed. Those rules "red tape" keep people who need not die not dying. You know who gets people killed? It's always the guy who thinks he's too frigging smart to do what he's told.
>Cap has every right to be suspicious of authority that came about in his absence.
He can be suspicious all he wants. He still needs someone to keep him from fucking up like he did when his last op got dozens of innocent bystanders killed.
>she's still entitled to due processes
Having your movement curtailed *is* a part of due process.
Colton Gomez
...
Jason Sullivan
>No, but she's still entitled to due processes which hasn't happened if she isn't given an opportunity to defend herself in a public hearing.
She deserves Jail for what she did, in fact EVERY SINGLE MEMBER OF THE AVENGERS aside from Vision has done shit that would mean jail time.
Ian Young
>Everything else he didn't account for He set Bucky loose on the compound, had him kill guards and try to kill several Avengers. He didn't specifically know that it would lead to a fight between Iron Man and Cap at an airport, but he knew it would cause conflict between Cap's position and the growing authority.
Gavin Morris
Not hard to be better than trash
Luis Barnes
Actually not, Zemo's plan was always abouy cap and Tony, it had nothing to do with the accords.
Steve being a fascist is a whole other thing.
William Young
>a few people died in the process of saving the world >WOW GUYS LET'S SIGN UP TO WORK FOR THE GOVERNMENT THAT HAS PROBABLY BEEN TAKEN OVER BY HYDRA
Colton Ross
>not being a fascist
It's like you hate successful forms of government that almost saved the world from globalism and Jews.
Tyler Cox
>its a waifufags get upset whenever someone points out that Scarlet Witch isn't innocent episode
Thomas Bailey
And the silly thing is:
Steve is to blame for everything Bucky did, he let him go in the last movie instead of taking his severely brain damage friend with him to get help.
Robert Diaz
>WOW GUYS LET'S SIGN UP TO WORK FOR THE GOVERNMENT
But that's not what the accords said, and that's not what theoy would be doing. And more important it's not the Government.
Jaxon Perez
>walked away while he was unconscious >let him go Are you retarded?
Joshua Miller
>aside from Vision >aggravated assault and battery aren't crimes
Jack Bailey
>successful
Tyler Cox
>if you told American soldiers that their loved ones...
The army keeps their families on army bases generally. Where they are protected. I think I could imagine SM signing up for that.
>Come here, you can stop the bullshit lying to everyone every day every day, all the GD time. There's armed guards at all the entrances and super powered protection here for your unusually old aunt who refuses to die since Satan is keeping her heart pumping through eldritch means. >Or, conversely, you can leave her in her dinky house in queens where her only protection is a piece of *cloth* you put on your face. (Yeah yeah, I know shit's changed)
I say he'd probably consider it. Even more so if his piece of cloth defense ever failed. He's out of things he can sell to the devil, isn't he?
Luis Watson
>a few pakistani civilians got blown up >a few black kids got shot protecting the city >a few college students got shot due to our gun laws >Congress and UN and everyone else has hearings and tries to pass new regulations and laws every single fucking time. I'm honestly shocked this didn't happen sooner.
Bentley Phillips
I'm talking BEFORE civil war. They all did terrible shit before this movie, in the case of Wanda he was Murderrobot sidekick.
Vision doesnt deserve jail, he needs to be turned off until he is needed.
Justin Carter
>a few people died
>WHO GIVES A SHIT LETS NOT CHANGE ANYTHING, LETS DRINK WINE AT TON'Y HOUSE.
writing shit in all caps hurts me on the inside.
Aaron Rivera
How many people died overall? Wasn't it a really low number?
Gabriel Wilson
>aggravated assault and battery aren't crimes
No such thing. There's assault and then there's battery. It's never assault *and* battery.
But remind me, who did vision hit, or touch actually?
Owen Gonzalez
I really don't understand how anyone can see Cap side as "anti establishment". His entire role in the movie is pretty much the same shit Bush and america did back in Irak. I know most movie capfags are underage but Steve was fighting for "freedom" in the same way Bush was.
>he needs to be turned off until he is needed Yeah, a being with human levels of sentience should be told to die and come back to life at our convenience.
Wyatt Taylor
A few people died during an alien invasion. An alien invasion commanded by a demigod. And what was THE GOVERMENT solution to said invasion? Just tactical nuke one of our biggest cities, lel. You see, Avengers saved new york (and the world) from both the Chi-tauri AND the goverment. I bet you shilled for the FBI fag in the Iron Giant, nigger.
Michael Perez
>Assault and battery is the combination of two violent crimes: assault (the threat of violence) and battery (physical violence). This legal distinction exists only in jurisdictions that distinguish assault as threatened violence rather than actual violence.
Sure sounds like it's a fucking thing to me m9
Jonathan Bell
>being with human levels of sentience
When he was created by a robot that tried to kill the planet? Sure, Turn him off.
Evan Cox
>bomb threat in library >police forces, swat, and fbi all cordone off library as they search for bomb >somehow (You) receive important information about the bomb's location >instead of sharing this information with the authorities, you ILLEGALLY sneak into the library and try to halt the bomb yourself >you fail and people die >the police charge you for the deaths
Captain Facist in a nutshell
people will defend this
Aaron Richardson
The avengers didnt mantain the casualties low, you can thank disney and that the movies are aimed to kids for that.
The chitauri were a shitty menace that could had been dealt with conventional weapons, Also they were defeated with the Nuke, not by the avengers.
Brandon Moore
If one of my parents was a war criminal would you order me executed, too?
Parker Collins
Go away, Byrne.
Gabriel Lewis
Yes, better to avoid a possible legacy or someone using you to rally the followers of the previous war criminal.
Asher Cruz
>close the portal the Chitauri are pouring out of >save NYC from getting nuked >disable the invaders in the least costly way possible >destroy a Chitauri mothership for an added-fuck you
Yeah dude these are all things the Army did, right? Ooh-rah!
William Sullivan
If you're executing the noncombatant family of criminals, aren't you also a war criminal? What gives you the moral authority?
William Fisher
Oh yes, the powerful nigerian army who isn't paid and refuses to fight weekend terrorists. They'll do great against elite mercs yeah, trust them. Top notch operation I'm sure. Very tactical, no casualties.
Oliver Smith
More like:
>Bomb threat in Russia I>nstead of sharing the information you go illegally enter >Russia with weapons >you and your friends kill a bunch of people including innocent civillians >Get mad that everyone is pissed at you
You, your weapon's dealer friend, your murderrobot'sbaby, the murder robot terrorist sidekick's, the monster that lose his cool and wrecks cities, the 2 political assassins, and the brothetr of the guy that tried to conquer ny pretedn what you did is OK
No, but if you were a weapon build by a war criminal instead of a person i would gladly have you disarm, you are not a person, you are a thing.
Brandon Sanchez
Zemo just wanted to smoke Bucky out so he'd be captured and he could gain access to him. There was no clever ruse to get Captain America to go rogue,
Josiah Sanders
>you are not a person, you are a thing.
We already had this discussion.
Ethan Hernandez
The nuke destroyed the chitauri, not the avengers... Without Stak's tower there was no chitauri invasion Without Thor failing to stop Loki in the first place there was no chitauri invasion Without the avengers and shield taking loki prisioner instead of letting Asgard take care of loki there was no Chitauri invasion
Nolan Ortiz
Vision is a person, according to Thor.
Jeremiah Cook
>invade foreign soil >accessory to deaths of national citizens >fly away instead of facing or communicating with the completely in the dark governments
Defintion of a criminal
Aiden Young
Thing is, he is a thing, not a real person.
Dylan Gomez
Being on the winning side and doing it for the greater good
I wouldn't be doing it if he they weren't war criminals to begin with.
Just like a cop shooting a criminal is not the same as a criminal shooting someone.
Daniel Brooks
Smuggler of weapons too.
The avengers should only enter countries that either ask for help or grant them free movement, if a country doesnt want their black ops inside said country has the right to keep them out.
Carson Garcia
If you're expecting me to argue this, you're going to be disappointed.
Cap was right. Tony is a manchild asshole.
Benjamin Hill
They should just get the fuck out of this ungrateful planet and join the Guardians of the Galaxy.
Noah Cook
>The nuke destroyed the chitauri, not the avengers... Only because someone had the wisdom to point the nuke away from NYC. >Without Stak's tower there was no chitauri invasion Stark tower wasn't the HQ of the Avengers or the product of the Avengers, and to blame the invasion on there being something tall with a significant power draw in a city full of tall things with significant power draw is dumb. >Without Thor failing to stop Loki in the first place there was no chitauri invasion Thor wasn't an Avenger when he fought Loki. He also reasonably thought Loki was dead after seeing him fall off the Rainbow Bridge. >Without the avengers and shield taking loki prisioner instead of letting Asgard take care of loki there was no Chitauri invasion SHIELD didn't choose where Loki was going to show up and didn't choose for Loki to destroy their facility and enthrall their agents. Who else was going to apprehend Loki? Who else knew what had happened?
Henry Wilson
Clearly, it would have been better if they just stayed out of it and, you know, let the entire human race die/be enslaved.
Jacob Wright
see
Austin Fisher
So is not the avengers fault if the fuck ups were before they joined as a team?
Brandon Brooks
Civil War makes Captain America into a libertarian.
Colton Johnson
>Being on the winning side Ahh, so might makes right. You're sounding like the bad guy to me here. >doing it for the greater good Whose greater good?
>I wouldn't be doing it if he they weren't war criminals to begin with. Families don't choose who they're related to. Would you drop a nuke on North Korea and blame everyone innocent you murdered for living there?
This is the most pathetic attempt to justify murder I have ever seen, and this is on an imageboard where people pretend to be retards and Nazis for amusement.
Christian Morris
>let the entire human race die/be enslaved.
Nothing that had happened so far couldnt had been stopped if Thor didnt fail to stop loki in his first movie.
More like a Republican
Kevin Nelson
Awesome.
Justin Fisher
You blamed the Avengers, not a bunch of superhumans that didn't know each other. Do you understand the difference?
Isaiah Wilson
Yes, it is. The Accords would determine when and if the Avengers would be deployed. Which means they can curb them from going places they might need to go, and tell them to go places where they are not needed to service political agendas.
Isaac Lewis
>Aids armor nigga
I don't think you can be prosecuted for friendly fire though. Can you?
>A few people died during an alien invasion.
I'm talking all those Wakandans who died because no one bothered to tell the Avengers that you don't get into super powered fist fights in the middle of a market square.
>Just tactical nuke one of our biggest cities
That was an example of an illegal order, and Fury reacted accordingly by refusing to comply.
>Captain Facist in a nutshell
"The best hands are my hands" Cap says as he ignores all that innocent bystander blood dripping off those hands.
>There was no clever ruse to get Captain America to go rogue,
Exactly, he wasn't playing fifth dimensional chess. It was the very simple nature of his plan that allowed it to adapt to the stupid shit everyone did and still come to fruition.
Simpler is better.
Smoke Bucky out, get access to Bucky, Get information from Bucky. Everything else he got was a bonus.
Sebastian Torres
>Ahh, so might makes right. You're sounding like the bad guy to me here. Yes it does, wish it wasn't that way but the truth is that. >Whose greater good? The people I stand for/have to take care for etc. >Families don't choose who they're related to. Life isn't fair >Would you drop a nuke on North Korea and blame everyone innocent you murdered for living there? If I had to choose between my country and them? Of course I would
Asher Cook
Except Cap was willing to be held accountable for any fuck-ups under his watch. He even pointed out that instead of owning up to those mistakes the Accords just shifted the blame away from their hands where it rightfully rested.
Brody Davis
* of a terrorist
Christopher Gutierrez
If the victim didn't have a car, a robber wouldn't be compelled to rob it!
Logan Brooks
>I'm talking all those Wakandans who died because no one bothered to tell the Avengers that you don't get into super powered fist fights in the middle of a market square. >It's Avengers' fault terrorists want to blow up to pieces in public spaces.
Brandon Wilson
>Clearly, it would have been better if they just stayed out of it and
Hyperbole. You're also conflating a spur of the moment gathering (the first Avengers movie) with how they should operate going forwards.
Also, in that movie, they had Samuel L Fury providing oversight. He should still be providing it. It's obvious that Cap can plan for shit and gets carried away with his need to punch people.