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I get the rest but 会話を振られても is stumping me.
Never mind, somehow I glossed over
>10. to bring up a topic; to lead to a topic
Anyway, looking at that picture again I found another uncertainty.
The て form necessarily implies that it's been 10 years since they've entered the rut right?
How feasible is it to learn Japanese conversationally in a little more than a year?
Assuming I can allocate like 2-3 hours a day
I’ve studied linguistics at university and I've been learning Japanese for about 3 years now. Ive learned about 1500-1800 of the kanji in the basic vocabulary, but sometimes not only I but NATIVE speakers themselves forget
kanji! So why not abolish it like Kamo no Mabuchi and Maejima Hisoka once proposed?
I don’t see any reason to stick with the kanji at all. Its true that there are lots of homophones where the kanji have helped me determining the right meaning in WRITTEN text, but whenever I find posts arguing that a writing system is necessary to keep communication running, I must say: youre wrong.
Languages work perfectly fine without the written word. Thats a basic truth known to everyone who has ever spent at least one semester in the subject that is linguistic. Our first writing systems date back just a few thousand years, until then people have been totally fine communicating without writing anything down.
And up to this day, oral communication MUST work without written characters.
And guess what: Even japanese works without kanji in oral communication in at least 99.9% of the cases, unless someone picks up a japanese dictionary listing all the 50.000 kanjis and their readings, and then picks the most uncommon word KNOWN to express a common word like “spices”, or whatever.
German has about 240.000 words listed. Even the best of us might know about 10.000-20.000 words. Its the same with japanese and these ridiculous high numbers of homophones representing bazillions of meanings. People dont know them and therefore dont use them. They are perfectly fine not using them and instead can even go with paraphrasing the word they dont know. Thats how language has always worked and how it works until today.
Except for China and Japan, no asian country still sticks to the kanji. They have abolished them after using them for centuries. It is absolutely possible. For some reason however, large segments of the population in these countries oppose the abolishment of the kanji.
But there is no reason big enough to justify a writing system that takes the natives 10 years to learn in its basics! Nobody uses that kanji in its 140 readings listed somewhere in some big fat dictionary, except maybe for the 0.0001% of academics who delve into the depths of japan older literature.
Kanji ARE a huge cultural obstacle, not just for foreigners, but for the natives as well. Im not saying that they cant be fun to learn, but they are extremely impractical and their history shows that mostly the nobility has defended them in the past centuries. Of course only the nobility was really literate you might say. But there you have it. You can live perfectly fine and speak good japanese without knowing more than maybe the 300 kanji necessary to write the bills for your customers.
I don’t want to be overly aggressive on this topic, but I really cant understand why so many defend this system. The little positive effects it has are largely overshadowed by the huge effort it takes to learn them. We now live in modern societies, where you need effective systems to communicate with each other. You dont need systems able to represent exotic words “in their full meaning”.
Because of the many homophones, many argue that phonographic writing systems wont work with the japanese language. But I say it again: Homophones are mostly eliminated from the language users vocabulary by default. Our brains aren't very good at loading the same signal with many utterly differing meanings. It takes us a lot of work to memorize this, and even more work decoding it correctly when you're in a live dialogue with someone
"Conversational" is too vague. You can learn enough to be useful for tourism and to make Japanese people laugh at your butchering of their language. You're not going to be understanding any native's speech who doesn't dumb themselves down severely.
People automatically use the lexems which are easy to distinguish from each other. Thats the reason why languages usually are in constant change. And even japanese is, but unfortunately mostly in its spoken form. The written form is hampered by a dinosaur from millennia ago, which was originally used to write official documents, poems and maybe decorate the flags and signs of big festivities. Its not suited to be used on a daily basis without dumping huge loads of mental power and time to learn this overly complicated writing system
The Japanese writing system is a perfect illustration of the Japanese culture.
>but it's so pointless and needlessly complicated and full of 'rules that aren't really rules'
Exactly. It's quintessentially Japanese. Which is why they will never abolish it.
How often do you realistically encounter non-jouyo kanji?
Something like once a paragraph.
I should say that that's mainly because a small subset of non-jouyou kanji, like 喧嘩, are very common. Not really any point to care about the jouyou list.
Probably frequently. After all, jouyou is just basic education. scriptin.github.io
I'm guessing once you have all JIS X 0208 Kanji (6355 of them) it'll be very rare to encounter one you don't know.
Every page of mango
I like that 笑 is the most common kanji on Twitter.
No one actually needs to learn that many though. Average native level is probably 3500-4000 (including name kanji).
I'd love to try to help here but you only provided two lines.
>need to use Chrome of Firefox for Yomichan
Completely feasible. Get sentence cards and do a lot of shadowing.
Probably should complement it with Core2k and Tae Kim's grammar.
You gotta learn kana as a first step, regardless.
Recommend beginner light novels please
Again?
My bad, I was out all day. The context is just that they're watching the news and the 妹 is making small talk but the 兄 is an autist that can't put his feelings into words so all he says is そうだな. I've since realized that I glossed over the fact that 振る has
>10. to bring up a topic; to lead to a topic
as a definition so I get what it says now but now my confusion is why it's in passive.
Also
thats not me from yday
im currently staring down
でもそんな時は必ず、それ以外のもの、たとえば世界とか、他ほかの人間の生き方とかが、全すべて美しく、すてきなもののように感じるんだ。
in kino prologue
It's passive because the verb is being done to the subject of the sentence.
>When I'm prattled at, there's nothing I can say other than "ok lol"
He's the subject right? Also, what's the ても for? What does it add?
Kinda carries the idea of "no matter what" here in my opinion. As in: "No matter what kind of pointless conversation you try to start..."
>He's the subject right?
He's still the subject, the passive just changes the direction (not by the subject, but towards it)
Makes sense, thank you.
Could you take a look at as well?
I'm retarded, I meant
There was a small debate about this a few months ago. My opinion on the も here is that it has this meaning:
既定的な事柄を述べ、その条件から考えられる順当な結果と対立する内容の文へ結びつける意を表す。…たにもかかわらず。「知っていても知らぬ顔をする」
(Conjunction joining an established condition with a clause that is contrary to what is expected to follow from that condition.)
kotobank.jp
In English, this is like "even if", but it's used more broadly in Japanese. In this case, it's used because the second clause (a reply of そうだな) is not what the sister expects to happen when she prattles at him.
>it's used because the second clause (a reply of そうだな) is not what the sister expects to happen when she prattles at him.
That seems like it fits very well. Thank you.
キノの旅ですね。
I think that's right. There's no implication or whatever, it's just a simple sequential case. Normally I'd think it would be "ten years have passed and they have started to become weary of married life" (since if it was vice versa, certainly they would have divorced long before the ten years?), but I don't think that interpretation is at all possible here.
>simple sequential case
Yeah, that's what I had in my mind when I wrote "implication" but I should've worded it better. Thanks again.
What were the milestones in your learning where things started to click /djt/? So far, for me it has been
>Around 100~200 vocab, hiragana started to feel very natural
>Around ~1000 vocab, I started to be able to make sense of some sentences that I never saw before
I'm wondering when my next big leap will be. I have also noticed that some of the grammar has started to become natural for me. Also, to all you people just starting Japanese, please keep at it. You will feel very satisfied when you start seeing some of these payoff
~7K started to feel some fun mixed in with the pain
~10K comfy
~15K could read average works in comfort zone without a dictionary
How many of these were mined?
I finished Core 6K and then started mining. I think it would have been more efficient to start mining at 2K or earlier.
What are some games that I could emulate on a phone that include kanjis? Only kana is pain.
I'm at 1500/6000 core while adding 15 though I lowered to 10 because my true retention was shit at 75%(>80% for matured). I might start mining earlier then. I've been reading Easy News every day so far
日本語それ自体は学びはじめるのに容易な言語の一つであるとされている
日本人にとってだろう。
Double those figures and it starts to get accurate.
>~15K could read average works in comfort zone without a dictionary
try reading something outside your comfort zone then
>8000 vocab
Hey, I can sorta read some stuff...
>12000 vocab (present)
Haha... I-I can sorta read some stuff...
fug, I was totally overreading that you already were talking about the comfort zone
no more DJT before my first coffee