Is Marvel going to learn the same lesson with Marvel NOW that DC learned with DCYou?

Is Marvel going to learn the same lesson with Marvel NOW that DC learned with DCYou?
And if they do, will they also follow DC in making comics great again? Or further degenerate their own brands?

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DCYou was good

Part of me thinks Marvel is too prideful. Also, part of me knows Marvel purposefully makes people mad as a result of poor sales.

This. Nothing in Now 2.0 seems Omega Men or Midnighter tier so Marvel literally can't learn the same lesson (ie that putting all your new talent on fringe books while ignoring the main ones is a bad idea).

yeah marvel doesn't care about Sup Forums

No, they are a Disney company and are making comics aimed at Disney's target audience. Get over it.

DCYou was great, faggot.

And no, judging from recent Mavel announcements, they're just gonna double down on shit events and relaunches every 6 months.

Divided We Stand seems more like Countdown-Era DC Comics.

Pretty much this. Marvel as independent pubblisher is dead. Now it's just obeying the commands and agendas of their boss. For example if Disney wants F4 and X-Men vanished or to suck, Marvel has to follow their will.

Perhaps they surprise us somehow, and make a return to the basics, but so far i don't see any light ahaid, or change of their current direction.

Marvel was bad long before Disney

True, but I'd argue that they've hitched their anchor a little too tightly to RDJ and the MCU. Once that starts to fizzle out, they're going to be in trouble because they haven't really worked on cultivating good talent over the past five years.

The two main "flagship books" of the last Marvel relaunches have been Remender's Uncanny Avengers and Bendis' Iron Man. Uncanny Avengers was met with so many delays that it quickly became irrelevant and Bendis has been universally panned. They can't even get the main Avengers book in the top 50 these days. The stunts and constant relaunches are finally catching up to them. It's only a matter of time before their variant shenanigans (to push Champions #1 to 300k units) fizzle out as well.

Kay, if this is true, why doesn't WB do the same with DC? There's occasionally some movie synergy (currently, the SS lineup and Wonder Woman's outfit) and corporate shittiness, but they don't turn it into promotions or cash-ins for the movies.

Because WB:

1. Has a reputation for being creator driven for movies and shows. Might not be true but it's PR they like to cultivate

2. Does not give a fuck about comics. It's an IP farm.

Divided We Stand hasn't even happened yet. That's the aftermath of CW II.

Marvel's making up for lackluster enthusiasm with their rare variant scam.

WB absolutely does not give a single shit about DC.

In the long run it looks like both companies will be pandering, albeit to different groups.

Right now DC's Rebirth relaunch is pandering to more traditional "white male" comic book fans. The fans that have always existed. Marvel on the other hand is trying to attract new audiences and doesn't really care about comic book nerds.

Though I'm a fan of Rebirth, I honestly can't see DC maintaining the momentum it has created. Comic book nerds will buy the books but as an audience, they're not exactly a commodity. A lot of them grow out of the hobby, a LOT of them just pirate the books, and honestly they'll all be dead eventually and it's not like they're going to be having kids to take their place. Marvel seems to be trying to jettison the dead weight of comic book nerds and is going for hipsters, women, and children. There's a reason this is a dying industry. Comic books have never done a good job at attracting new readers in any kind of meaningful way. Marvel is trying to do that now.

Whether or not their gamble will pay off is yet to be seen but even though I love what DC's doing, there's no way it's going to maintain itself for more than a year or so. Marvel will just pull another big PR stunt and will be back on top like they tend to be.

New 52 and the Vertigo-murdering seemed to be WB's main contributions to DC and look where it got them

>using the term "nerds unironically"

Stopped reading there. B8 or 15 years old, maybe both

WB has owned DC for fucking ever, they could care less about them. Marvel is a newly acquired IP for Disney and they are getting it in line with their branding. It's not an insult it's just true. Disney has always been extremely hands on.

WB killed Vertigo and New 52 has a lot of things that could be used for movie shit.

I'll eat my hat if the eventual Shazam movie, should that ever occur, doesn't have at least half of Johns and Frank's story in it.

>killed Vertigo
When will people stop this meme? Wtf are you even talking about? There are plenty of ongoings and Sheriff is getting plenty of critical acclaim.

Brevoort please.

The dead weight of the comic book nerds are substaining the industry, you like it or not. You can go for the hunt of the phantomatic "new readers", but those are on board just for a couple of issues, and then they are out. So instead of raging against comic book nerds, and doing whatever the SJWs and your Disney's boss asking you, try instead to write some good stories, without many shitty events that destroy the individual comic book series, and bring back your classic franchises and characters that made Marvel great, instead of killing them off or replace them, with any kind of cliche diversity crap. If you really believe at diversity introduce new characters, not used them to replace classic and loved ones.

I think the main reason nobody's excited for Now 2.0 is because Marvel hasn't said much on it aside from "make sure you buy all those Champions variants"

DC keeps trying to attract new readers and then backpedaling at the last second. At some point they need to learn how to focus on their A-List franchises while supporting creative fringe material at the same time. They make a lot of books! They can do traditional storytelling with Superman and Flash and still do weird shit like Prez and Omega Men at the same time. Homogenous directions in editorial and writing are a much bigger problem for DC and Marvel than this 'war' between the shrinking old comics community and the risky new fans.

Killed Vertigo as in forced contracts to change so that WB gets it instead of creators doing what they want and going where they want.

TWD exploded like right after WB did this.

This honestly. Not real sure why Marvelfags get so triggered by it.

If Marvel's attempt at jettisoning their die hard fans is to pick up a group with the most fickle interests of any demographic (teen-mid 20s men and women) they will fail just as hard as DC. And it is nearly impossible to hold any fanbase with constant relaunches and renumbers, eventually they will become fed up.

But thats not true at all because creators can still do whatever they want and its one of the main reason King signed an exclusive.

And no one believes that DC will replace Marvel as the big one in comic book industry, since DC has much less franchises and characters from Marvel, but at least try to raise the bar it's not a bad thing.

As for the categories that you said that Marvel is targeting as potential readers, i have serious doubts about some of them, that they will ever get interested. They maybe there for the movies, but can't see them go out and buy comic books. It would be more clever to not bite the hand that feeds you all these decades.

as far as marvel is concerned, all their die-hard fans jumped ship in the 90's when they let them go bankrupt, so they need any demographic they can get

I get what he's saying Vertigo is basically just Icon now, it's a place for DC creators to write minis.
They make little effort to cultivate new talent, or create new ongoings, and they do not have any crossover with DC and in fact have basically lost that capability with Young Animal. However to say that any of this is WBs fault is unbelievably fucking dumb because they literally started the line

Its not the hand that fed them though. As others have pointed out Disney is trying to appeal to the hand that has fed them for years, kids. Stop looking at Marvel as an independent entity from Disney cause its not. Its the same thing as Star Wars.

If you haven't noticed, Vertigo books are selling like more shit than before, even the trades.
And nobody cares about it in general anymore (writers in particular because fans follow them) since there are new actual creator owned publishers that don't have Warner Bros demanding they be the ones to pick up your comic and preventing you from going anywhere else.

It's fucking sad that it takes that the Batman writer for a Vertigo book to survive and fucking Aftershock books are selling as much as Vertigo books or more.

Uh no, WB gets rights first and if it's out of publication long enough then it goes back to you.
Writers do not like this, so DC and Vertigo can only get mostly new writers.

And no, King got an exclusive because of Batman and he has three children to feed.

Many Marvel comic books, are not exactly for kids. The X-Men for example will never be like Donald Duck, otherwise they will not be X-Men anymore. Disney should try to be appealing with the characters that work for kids, but also not trying to disintegrate and kill off those that don't match to their own standards (see Wolverine for example).

You're entire argument is based on your retarded opinions and not facts. Vertigo attracts writers to DC exclusives not detracts because Marvel has no format for them to write OGNs or minis. You're a dumbass.

>DC's Rebirth relaunch is pandering to more traditional "white male" comic book fans.
While it's surely trying to roll back some of the damage that Nu52 did by
dialing back the grimderp (and hopfully the movies do the same) I'm having a
hard time seeing the current Batgirl being aimed at 45 year old white dudes.

That also goes for:
Gotham Academy
Harley Quinn
Supergirl
Superwoman
Wonder Woman

>I honestly can't see DC maintaining the momentum it has created
They've done a really REALLY good job of not making the mistake they did with DCYou (too much new stuff all at once) as well as the mistake that that made with Nu52 (launching every single title all at once rather than staggering things over several months). The lower price also is quite popular.

>Marvel seems to be trying to jettison the dead weight of comic book nerds and is going for hipsters, women, and children.
This is actually true to some degree: they've got deals with Scholastic to sell TPBs of Moon Girl and Squirrel Girl for example, and apparently Deadpool sells like hotcakes at places like B+N.

Except Marvel do and marvel exclusives are usually "don't write for DC", so you can still write a book for Image, Dark Horse, etc

>he thinks King signed an exclusive because of a book selling 5k a month and not the one selling 100k+ a month
lol

No Marvel doesnt you dumb fuck. They havent done an OGN in years and have no platform at all to tell adult stories like DC does with Vertigo.

>Except Marvel do

I hope you are actually 15 years old cause that's your only excuse for being this dumb.

Is Deadpool kid friendly material? A mercenary that often get disemboweled?

They announced two OGNs this year and had 3 or 4 come out in the last couple years

What OGNs? Cite them.

comicvine.gamespot.com/marvel-original-graphic-novel/4015-56530/

And then a Deadpool one with Liefeld and a Squirrel Girl one that Sup Forums bitched about

>Marvel has no format for them to write OGNs or minis.
Nigger, do you even read comics??

Mate Thanos is not an OGN. I think he meant things like All Star Batman or DKIII.

X-Men was an extremely popular kids' cartoon and Wolverine was their favorite character.

>Deadpool
>Squirrel Girl

My fucking sides holy shit. Those are minis not OGNs.

>Marvel fans think Squirrel Girl is a Graphic Novel

Jesus....

>Is Deadpool kid friendly material?
I'd imagine your average 12 year old thinks he's the shit, user.

But the point was that Deadpool is shifting many MANY more units than you see reflected in Diamond's monthly lists and those units are being sold to people who don't go to comic book specialty shops.

>he has to samefag

>he thinks only one person is laughing at him for that statement

Dumbest post I've seen all day tbqh. Even worse than the one asking why the robot has nipples.

Yes, Squirrel Girl Beats Up The Marvel Universe is an original graphic novel coming out in October, user.

>Mate Thanos is not an OGN.
marvel.com/news/group/383/marvel_original_graphic_novels

no it's not

Cartoon is not the same thing with comics. And here we are talking about comics. Cartoon Wolverine was much more waterdowned in comparison to the comic counterpart.

But at any case Marvel killed off Wolverine, because was too "matcho" for Disney's standards and then they completely fucked up the X-Men, because again Disney didn't have the rights. So this is not only about kid friendly comics (reminding also that current kids are playing with video games, and don't give a crap for comics), but for politics, money, and greed.

Calling something a graphic novel doesnt make it a graphic novel.

>by OGN, he meant things that aren't OGNs

Actually Squirrel Girl and Deadpool are ongoings.

The characters themselves are getting OGNs.

Are you retarded? DKIII is literally the definition of an OGN as is All Star. They are elseworlds you daft cunt. My god Marveldrones are stupid.

An OGN is a standalone comic that comes out all at once and is typically called that by the publisher themselves to differentiate it from normal ongoings, minis, and trades, user.

...

It's okay to be embarrassed, user, it's okay if you made a mistake earlier and are trying to make a funny.

>ogn = elseworlds/what-if

>An OGN is a standalone comic that comes out all at once
>An ongoing graphic novel is something that comes out all at once
>ongoing
>all at once

I think you are confusing a graphic novel with an ongoing graphic novel. You are pretty new to comics huh? Stop trying to tell people what's what when you have no idea what you are talking about.

O doesn't stand for ongoing, it stands for outstanding, something that floppies are not, user.

No it doesn't retard. OGN has and always will stand for ongoing not "outstanding". My god you are a fucking idiot.

DCYou had some great titles for the lesser knowns but the DC pillars were meh. The problem was those lesser knowns sold like shit and the meh sold mediocre numbers.

Rebirth is getting the pillars right then using that solid foundation to release some lesser knowns.

You're both wrong. It stands for Original. Original Graphic Novel, meaning it isn't a collection of stories previously released in a different format.

Honestly this, and can you really fault them? Once they establish that the IP is for children only they can publish any of their films under the Marvel banner. A Hercules comic, a Frozen comic, a Mickey Mouse comic, you name it. Not to mention any parent going to the comic shop is gonna know its a safe bet.

It's original you fucking idiot. Get off your high horse

>its a Marvelfags get triggered by Disney episode

Aren't you people a little late to be kicking and screaming that Disney is trying to appeal to the demographic they always have? They don't give two fucks about who a failing company appealed to before they bought it and why should they.

It's a 120 page self contained story, literally the definition of a graphic novel

No, its an OCN technically. Original Children's Novel.

I dont know if you can compare them dcyou failed because of marketing.

DCYou's only fault was in its nonexistent marketing. ANAD and Marvel NOWER have both completely detached themselves from their original fanbase. Apples and Oranges.

This is the fundamental flaw in that argument. People keep saying that Marvel doesn't care about their fans and why are they shitting on their long time readers. They aren't cause Disney's Marvel is appealing to the demo they always have. They didn't buy a failing company to appeal to people they caused it to fail. They bought it to change it to appeal to the demographic that they appeal to. They aren't betraying their fans cause those people were never fans of Disney's Marvel.

what lesson? ANAD works for them.

The people reading comics today literally grew up with Disney. Longtime readers included. "Disney's Marvel" wasn't a thing until 2009.

You think new readers are buying Rebirth? No. Sales have always been dominated by old readers. Despite what you want to believe, pandering to children and hipsters doesn't generate sales.

You fundamentally misunderstand mate. Yes they bought it in 2009 and are now appealing to the fan base that has always bought Disney merch and made them into a huge successful giant. Pre 2009 Marvel is dead, the fans didnt buy comics and it died. Post 2009 Disney's Marvel is an entirely new company appealing to Disney's demographic as they should because its a subsidiary of Disney so they are using this comic company they bought to make material for their fans as they should. Disney shouldnt shun their fans to cater to a demographic of a failed company they bought. They should make comics for Disney fans as they are.

Pre Disney Marvel never failed. Keep in mind that they NEARLY went bankrupt in the 90s, but they managed to survive. Disney buying Marvel didn't kill Marvel. Marvel killed themselves.

This pre-established fanbase of children you seem to be clinging to, have no interest in Muslim superheroes fighting the patriarchy, nor do they have any vested interest in tampons or Asgardian lesbians. You're just baiting, my dude.

Holy shit this. The comic company you people grew up with is gone, you cant fault Disney for using their comic company to appeal to fans that have always bought Disney media.

I think that sales prior to the last few months and the movies beg to differ. Thats your opinion cause you are pissed off but Disney will never stop appealing to their demographic to appeal to the demographic of a company they bought instead. Thats not how businesses work. You buy subsidiaries to add them to your company. They bought the Marvel name to use cause it was popular not because they gave a shit about the Marvel fan base.

>disney's demographic is comprised of autistic lesbians from tumblr

That doesn't sound like the key to them being a multibillion dollar company but okay

>Many Marvel comic books, are not exactly for kids
the same could be said for a number of Touchestone movies, those are still Disney

Have you even talked to any kid under 18 lately? They throw around terms like pansexual, transphobic, racist, sexist and misogynyist constantly in every day conversation. Stop assuming your generation is THE generation.

>NEARLY went bankrupt
they filed for bankruptcy and began selling off their assets.
>Disney buying Marvel didn't kill Marvel. Marvel killed themselves.
Collectors completely skewing sales by buying twenty comics of each comic, tricking Marvel and DC into thinking they had way more fans than they actually did, and then collectively abandoning the hobby abruptly when they finally realized their comic collection wasn't going to put their kids through college, is what killed Marvel.

It's actually the opposite of this, Disney really really cares about perserving their IP, and they want to have IP that reaches every demographic.
They're not interested in what Marvel does with comics in the slightest, if they were they wouldn't let things like Superior Spider-man/Ironman and taking away all the legacies, and all the shit that put marvel in this spot.
They're very conservative about fucking with their existing IP, and that's not happening at Marvel, this shit is in spite of Disney, not because of.

No that's not all of them. Plus Disney cares about the strength of its brands and IP a lot. They're a company of historians and archivists, and Marvel's always been a company that's tried to adapt to whatever trend is happening at the time. This is another instance of that, but it's just been a very misplaced bet on their part.

Holy shit you are so stupid I don't even think you're trolling

No it's a comic so it's a graphic art, children's novel implies prose

Are you fucking serious? I don't believe you've talked to kid under 18.

>And no one believes that DC will replace Marvel as the big one in comic book industry, since DC has much less franchises and characters from Marvel, but at least try to raise the bar it's not a bad thing.

Man, is it just me or DC is bad at mantaining the popularity of their franchises in the long run? Titans was one of the big two books in the 80s, going toe to toe with a title like X-Men, and while those kept their popularity and went on to become a giant in the Marvel universe, the Titans faded into mediocrity and never took off as a franchise. Green Lantern also went through a period of massive popularity before going to shit after Johns left. Same shit happened with a lot of other characters and teams, while Marvel made the Guardians of the Galaxy the hot shit popularity wise even if the comic is shit currently.

stop loving marvel

>while Marvel made the Guardians of the Galaxy the hot shit popularity wise even if the comic is shit currently
Yeah around the time the movie was out

It's been selling pretty meh for Bendis for the past few months and every other GOTG title tanked

Tsum tsums are cute user

I'm not talking about the movie though, they resurrected it with Annihilation and they kept the property in the consciousness of people since then. The movie was just an escalation of that.

This. The only problem was that it had followed Convergeance and nothing popped out to casuals. Rebirth basically put out all their big guns and focused on that.

And yet Doomed Rebirth STILL isn't happening.

I'm getting angry just looking at this.

>. I think he meant things like All Star Batman or DKIII.
Neither of those are graphic novels.