Gender Pay Gap. How can you defend this Sup Forums?

>Women with children face a widening gender pay gap - leaving them 33% worse off than men by the time their first child is 12, a report has found.

>The Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) found the overall wage gap had narrowed over the last 20 years, but mothers have been getting left behind.

>The study found that hourly pay rates for women were currently around 18% lower than men on average - an improvement on 23% in 2003 and 28% in 1993.

>But after starting a family, the gap widened steadily until hourly pay for women was 33% less than men after 12 years.

news.sky.com/story/gender-pay-gap-hits-women-with-children-hardest-10548274

Other urls found in this thread:

ifs.org.uk/uploads/publications/bns/bn186.pdf
youtube.com/watch?v=p5LRdW8xw70
youtube.com/watch?v=_KIBVvBL1hQ
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

How about women just choose STEM majors that pay well instead of women's studies?

>But after starting a family, the gap widened steadily until hourly pay for women was 33% less than men after 12 years.

Something here doesn't add up.

/thread

>debunked multiple times

Here is paper.

ifs.org.uk/uploads/publications/bns/bn186.pdf

It doesn't exist.

These figures are aggregates taken often across whole sectors and time frames.

Women earn less because they work less. For example, they may value children more than work.

You cannot, and have not able for a long time, to pay women any less than men for the same job/hours/ experience and this is true across most of of European built civilisation.

>18% lower

Why haven't I gone and fired all my male workers and hired female replacements to save 18% on my wage costs per month? I do believe that a woman can do as fine a job as a man as I believe you do, if this is the case why haven't companies who are so "greedy" fired all their men? Surely a huge supply of equally capable labor that can operate for almost 77% of your current cost would be attractive?

But it's not happening. Because either 1; men and women are not equal and therefore the pay difference or 2; this gap does not exist.

I'm not a sexist, when I was a young lad my manager was a woman who was the most capable and hard working person I ever saw so I don't believe it's 1 which must mean it's 2.

How do we debunk shit like this Sup Forums. The paper makes no mention of the different careers that men and women choose, clearly the single biggest factor in your wage. Why are they allowed to post such misleading shit?

Because you sexist men aren't encouraging us stronk intelligent independent wymenz to do that!

But where is the encouragement for women to get into STEM fields? Are you going to pretend there isn't discrimination attached to opportunities for women in STEM fields because of perceived gender roles?

>work fewer hours

>work more flexible hours

>take more vacations

>work easier and safer jobs

>retire younger

Golly gee why do women make less money? It's one whale of a mystery.

Because it reaffirms the opinion of people that they are being hard done by, that their situation is not their fault but the doing of someone else.

Our state sponsored public broadcaster regularly posts an article like this every now and then, it's bottom of the barrel slow news day type shit that is bound to drum up some comments on the Facebook page. As long as people reply and get angry they will keep posting these articles about terrible research papers

>Gender Pay Gap. How can you defend this Sup Forums?

By not voting for this bitch

>women under 30 and early 30s, making more money, better chances of getting the jobs they want
>STILL not enough

why is this still happening? It's not even about the gender pay gap anymore, they have already swung the pendulum in their direction and they want more, what do they want exactly? At what point will they actually stop, if ever?

It will stop after affirmative action has replaced every competent White man with incompetent women. Then the system will buckle under their incompetence and fail.

Sorry, don't give a shit.

You've obviously never applied for a STEM course, there's actually more discrimination against men as they are desperate for woman at the moment.

Oh hey I get a French flag now. Thanks holiday.

Why the fuck should we encourage women. We don't encourage men, they just tend to find it for themselves and go for the money. If a woman wants to make the money or is interested she can do so herself we shouldn't have to push them to it.

>women can't work as much when they have kids
>therefor they don't get paid as much
Why is this concept so difficult to grasp? I'm half glad that these libtards aren't figuring this shit out because as long as mandatory gender hiring quotas are never legislated further "equal" gender pay legislation will drive women out of the workforce and into the home.

Have you ever been in the hiring process for stem students? I can't speak for other fields but in engineering women have a clear advantage in hiring, the ratio of unemployed male to female engineers I am likely to bet is staggering. I've had pressure come down from above to hire a woman, I find it insulting especially so as she was the most qualified and best applicant; she is seen as nothing more than a diversity hire to spruce up the office despite having great marks.

What people who advocate for affirmative action hiring forget is this side of it, not only do you admit the unqualified but you take away from the qualified, you belittle their achievements and make them nothing more than a diversity hire to all their peers.

Plus, by manipulating the statistics they can make it appear like the gap has shrunk, which politicians love to do to put themselves and their policies in a positive light.

>be dumb
>choose to do a thing alone that's supposed to be done by pair
>hurrrr why am I worse off?

The under representation of women in STEM fields is virtually proof of an institutional discrimination against women and girls in schools and universities. The data is there and is the best proof we can ever hope to have to confirm that prejudice in the system. More women are in universities now than men but men still dominate places in STEM fields. You don't find that weird?

It is because women take more days off than men. In my department everyone gets similar pay, difference depending upon how long they've been working there. The very few women that were there often took more days off than most of the men. When the women are skipping out on the sixth day of work of the week for pure overtime pay so they can have a two day weekend then yeah, there will be a pay gap.

Maybe women should stop calling out or scheduling days off of work to get the same annual pay as men.

That comic is hilarious because I work in construction and could never ever see a female doing the kind of work I do.

I am a relatively big guy and I come home exhausted working with jackhammers and heavy machinery. The idea of my girlfriend in a field like that is preposterous.

I'm sorry but even if women only made 77 cents on the dollar, they would never be hired for some positions because they are physically unable to do it.

Its not only the physical aspect.

Try working in a high stress environment and see how women struggle.

no not really

copy/paste from another thread with similar topic

"Gender paygap is a myth... but if women did in fact earn less than men, I would totally understand it.
From my experience in the workplace, women can't handle criticism well and they exponentially increase workplace drama, and overall reduce the level of productivity."

>Idiot chooses useless meme field to major in instead of field that is actually useful
>Wonders why they get paid less than the person that actually got a specialized degree in STEM field
Nope.

People always forget one little thing in this discussion.

>ITS FUCKING ILLEGAL TO PAY WOMEN LESS THAN MEN FOR THE SAME AMOUNT OF WORK

If she goes on maternity leave and comes back a year later, no shit shell earn less than a guy who has been slaving his ass off for the company.

If a woman doesnt work extra time and goes home at 6 sharp, no shit the guy who stays longer hours and slaves for the company will make more.

This isnt rocket science.

Encourage? Aren't people supposed to do what the fuck they want to?

We're not holding your hands enough? And yet you're just as good at us at anything. Fuck off with that shit.

>I am a relatively big guy
for me

But why do women feel the need to choose the fields they do. That's the important question, and it points to a larger problem of discrimination.

ITS 2016! There's no gender role discrimination.

im sure any man who worked with women can say for certain they are generally garbage workers who don't like to compete (which i think is the key to being a successful worker)

they only care about impressing their bosses by dressing inappropriately, posting shit on instagram like "hard day at the office". Ofc there is the exception, like everything...but it'll never take away from the fact the average woman is dog shit and ruins the working world for men

here's a radical suggestion: maybe women should try finding gainful employment at non-budget users

>under representation.... is virtually proof of institutional discrimination
No it's not, you blithering moron. Proof of institutional discrimination is proof of institutional discrimination.

Ask yourself this question: what would the following two universes look like?
>A universe in which women want to enter STEM fields but are prevented from doing so.
>A universe in which women do not want to enter STEM fields and do not do so.
Which of those hypothetical universes does our universe look more like?

>But where is the encouragement for women to get into STEM fields?

Two parter…. Bare with me.

Here is a shocking truth for you, try not to fall out of your seat:

Women. like men, are intelligent, fully autonomous, and capable beings with agency who are capable making choices that affect the course of their lives based on solely on their own preferences. To presuppose that they aren't making the "right" choice is to imply that they are too often making the "wrong" one. This is to ascribe to them the status of children whom need to be directed and cajoled into doing what is "good for them" by following the dictates of their parents.

Women are not children, and to treat them as such by unduly influencing their decision based on nothing other than your own preconcieved notions of who YOU think THEY need to be is sexist in the extreme. This is because, when you state that women are negatively affected by "perceived gender roles," from which they apparently need to be "liberated," and then attempt to correct this problem by setting up NEW EXPECTATIONS of what people of their gender should do.......... and get this clearly....

YOU ARE SETTING UP A BRAND NEW SERIES OF SOCIAL EXPECTATIONS OF WHAT WOMEN SHOULD BE, WHAT THEY SHOULD DO, HOW THEY SHOULD ACT, AND HOW THEY SHOULD LIVE.

Because their fucking adults that need to grow the fuck up. If they want to do something, they should just do it, not expect anyone else to do it for them.

In short, all you've done is substitute one set of "perceived gender roles" for another.

>It is discriminatory to tell women how to live their lives just because of their gender!

>Let's rectify this by telling women how they should live their lives based on their gender!

It is fucking moronic. The only thing anyone should do is remove any artificial barriers that may hinder women should the women choose, in their own liberty, to pursue these fields. Any other initiative just follows the current feminist social-engineering policies that have a single rule:

>Women = Good

>Men = Bad

Since women are good, and men are bad, it follows from this logic that any environment which has more men than women is somehow inherently bad, even when there is no evidence of active discrimination. The simple fact that there are more men that women is proof enough, because, why else would anyone allow more bad than good? That is unthinkable! Better to cleanse the space of the people who were born wrong, because when there are less of the bad people, and more of the good, then the world is right, because reasons. Notice how this is the same mechanism people use regarding race (white = bad, but non-white = good).

This is unnecessarily vengeful, hateful, and punitive. It is based on nothing other than hatred of men and boys, who are seen as flawed, broken, and diseased from birth with the curse of having been born wrong (maleness).
In the end, it is creating an entire generation of disenfranchised young men who are viewed as a problem simply because of how they were born. Read your own suicide rates amongst young men. Tell me if you can see a correlation here.

Women don't want to enter STEM fields because they strongly tend to value interpersonal connections and directly helping people more. It's a difference observable literally from infancy and has nothing to do with discrimination.

Addendum; this is supported by the fact that the main STEM field women DO enter is medicine. In other words, interpersonal work where you directly help people.

>women out of work have less experience which leeds to less pay
>this is somehow injustice
personal preference and choices, you can choose not having kids and earn the same as men
THE PAY GAP IS A MYTH

This is another thing i never understood about this complaint. At what point do we say that things are as they are due to peoples choices? Why do people assume that there is no autonomy in these women? No one ever questions why men are underrepresented in the nursing field, its simply seen as a choice that men dont make, the same that women make when it comes to the garbage collection industry. Somehow when it comes to CEO's and college grad jobs this aspect of personal choice is out the window and there must be a perfect 50/50 balance. Its bizarre

>women get stupid degrees/jobs
>women cant assert themselves and ask for raises
>most women suck at negotiating outside of divorce court

I have never seen any real evidence of a gender pay gap. The idiots that think there is one probably also think BLM has legitimate grievances.

Now I know you are trolling, mate. Either that or you've never been around women. There are clear differences in the genders.

Even male chimps will choose to play with toy trucks and female chimps will choose to play with dolls, just like in human children. They've done countless studies on it but you only need to have a sister or a girlfriend and not be an autist to realize it for yourself.

If a man and woman both work a minimum wage job, does the woman really get paid ~5.75 an hour?

Fuck off

What discrimination? Girls just don't go after these jobs.
>perceived gender roles
How about perceived oppression in your deluded mind.

Women chose the field they work in.
Women choose to have children with shit partners.
Choosing to become a single mother, and further worsening the situation by having more children out of wedlock, should be a crime punishable by imprisonment, sterilization, and loss of parental and voting rights.

Idiot, women in India apply more for STEM fields than in gender equality paradise Norway.
That means if women are left freely to decide what they want to do, they choose fields which involve dealing with people and not STEM fields.
WOMEN AREN'T GOOD AT STEM FIELDS AND THEY DO NOT WANT TO GO TO STEM FIELDS.
Idiot.
youtube.com/watch?v=p5LRdW8xw70

But men aren't discouraged from entering fields. You don't see how an entirely male dominated field might be intimidating for women that might be inclined to pursue a career in said field? You don't understand how pressures based on outdated gender roles aren't playing a part in opportunities for women?

These studies always conveniently leave out the fact that young women cumulatively earn more than young men

Is there not also a massive gap between the pay of the average white worker and the average colored worker?

How come everyone believes in this lie when it comes to women but theres not a single peep about it when it comes to race? Are blacks not making obscenely less money than whites?

Honestly what the fuck?

How has this only been a womens thing?

Its just as true, if not even MORE true and disparaging when you look at race... what gives?

No, you moron, it is only proof that men and women are different and gender isn't just a social construct.

A lot of the complaints are due to being coddled all their life. Women are so used to special treatment that they can't even fathom their privilege anymore.

>be nobody
>ask big time club owner for a chance to do your jokes in front of a crowd
>they give you a guest spot
At this point, most male comedians would be jumping for joy - a chance to get your name out, AND to make connections?

>be female
>complain about not being paid for a guest spot a decade later to further the idea that women are being oppressed

Women aren't discouraged from entering STEM fields. STEM organizations are chomping at the fucking bit to get more women. Also, how fucking weak-willed do you think women are? They don't need you to white knight for them, faggot. Let them make their own choices, respect their agency, stop trying to push your managed society onto everyone.

The women chose wrong, didn't you know?

Women need to be protected from making "bad" choices. This means that we need teams of people, politicians, professors, experts, pundits, and activists who can, according to their own views of how women should live, intervene to make sure women make the "right" choice. You know, like what we do with children.

As for you: Holy fuck, when did WE become the feminists?!

fuck off you nigger I was chemical engineer major and women made up maybe 10 out of the 150 students in my year. Even the stupid nigger one with 2.1 GPA had jobs thrown at her left and right.

I work in a female-dominated field and I'm pretty sure most women in comparable positions make more than I do. It truly does not matter, because I don't get their paychecks.

The issue here is that women don't get married before they have children, and they don't stay married.

If they stayed married then the man would be supplementing their income.

It's designed to provoke our response, so it will end when women's choice becomes "submit or die".

In other words, women want men to stop being insufferable weaklings and grow backbones.

Seriously guys?

Im really curious, this is such a big deal, so many people believe in this, and yet its even more true for people of other races, (not that any of it is actually true at all) but no one actually cares about that

How?

How is this pay gap shit all about gender when its literally all the same or worse for race and none of these libcucks have ever said a word about the "race pay gap"

...because UX design is just not profitable.

Sure is fun, though.

I am in the highest paid stem field (aerospace). This is bullshit. Women are aought out because companines are tired of an all male work force and the bs it brings. (Giant gorilla egos.)

The issue is that women just do not go into stem as much as men. Sure the rates are going up but when we value machines more than human services then there is going to be a pay gap always.

Funny enough my wife is full time with the lowest paying degree (psychology) and I have the highest (aerospace). So we balance out well. There are literally zero men where she works where as I have about 25% female where I work.

I thought women were strong and independent and are free to choose whatever they like? Ah, but if it's not something men like then it's because of muh oppression, right?

The same way we always do, point out the bull shit. They haven't proven anything, they tried a very similar thing years ago where they implied women with the same uni degrees as men earn less than men. It's the same feminist trick where they keep trying to dress up the same old lie differently each time and hope people fall for it.

The only issues to note are certain biological realities, not social ones.

Women carry the burden of conceiving a baby, gestating it, and then carrying it to term. This process carries health risks, requires extra time to deal with, costs money to manage, and necessitates leave from work (though the amount may vary). All of this will affect their earnings, and cannot be helped, even with government equity laws.

The pay gap meme is just another way for feminists to extract more free shit from men (via taxes or from men's success in business)

>Have a child
>Take time off to have child
>Men get experience whiile woman is having child, by her choice
>Takes fewer hours in order to care for said child
>Wahh why we do we get paid less than that man over there
Jeez If I took a 9 month siesta and then cut my work hours to M-F 10-2 I would expect to be behind someone who works M-F 9-5 with overtime on weekends

holy shit user.....you just blew my mind!!!

Plus the know if they spread the legs for the right guy they'll get their MRS degree and not have to think too hard about work

You aren't supposed to work if you have children.

Women need to be men, and ca't have otherwise goyim

You have a problem with a woman graduating a STEM field being offered jobs? And you don't think there's a problem?

I guess you have to be able to think

...

Ive never worked a job where base pay was different for genders, because that is illegal.

Men volunteer for more hpurs, are more likley to do overtime, take fewer sick and vacation days, and agressivley campaign for raises and promotions.

So what do they want, to get paid for the extra work they arent doing?

Goyim only earn about 50 cents for every dollar G-d's chosen earn. When will the Gentile Pay Gap be closed?

>pic related
Hire a bunch of inexperienced women just to meet a quota and then it back fires? No way...

Wife makes more than me.

So much for that "theory".

>Wife making more than the husband

Does she also come home very late from work and too tired for sex as well?

It was memed by feminists to oblivion, obviously. That is why its always 77 cents even though I'm sure you could find conflicting numbers. 77 is the one they go with because its memorable, yet still considerably lower than 100. So they just keep saying it. They will stick with that number as long as they can until its becomes so clear a lie and then they will probably abandon the pay gap shit altogether, having artificially increased the value of their work above and beyond men's by then and being able to move towards outright shifting company ownership into the hands of women.

They're women user. What they really want is something to moan about.

I'm an economist. Feminists have just taken a number and ran with it. Yes women earn less than men. But once you control for things like hours worked, education, maternity etc the disparity disappears.

Economics should become a mandatory GCSE so people don't get misled by bullshit like this.

Yeah, I think I remember reading some kind of study along those lines that figured out that 77 cents is because they took the ENTIRE female population into their average without exckuding the unemployed, retired, welfare recipients, or full time moms, vs the entire us male population and compared the average incomes.

When you cut out those irrelevant demographics and just use the employed women and men and specify career fields it turns into like, 85.

So okay, thats a bit better than 77 but thats still kinda shitty.....

Oh wait, once they adjusted for leave days, sick days, overtime, and volunteering for extra hours it came out as like 97 with an error rating of 4 percent.

Gee, who woulda thought taking 50% more sick days (actual statistic) would equate to making 15% less?

>Women take 50% more sick days, so will make less

Well its usually child related so she should still get paid for it! (Feminist response)

Okay, so women should be supported for having babies? If only there were some person with a vested interest in the kid around to help raise it..... the childs father perhaps..... maybe it would compensate.

>tear down nuclear family unit with the bareley concealed goal of removing fatherhood from societey
>complain that taking care of kids is hard and cuts into ones salary
>clearly somebody should be helping this poor woman

Feminism everybody.

I have argued with my wife a few times about the supposed pay gap and also about maternity leave.

Now that she is at an "executive" level, she understands how bad she is fucked when someone under her gets pregnant and disappears For two months. I doubt she would hire women if it were up to her.

Not to mention the hundred other less official ways they undermine efficiency.

I work at a gym as a personal trainer. Every time I show up after a female has been on shift the weights havent been re-racked, nothing has been cleaned, or if it has its half assed, literally none of the jobs that dont include playing on thier phone at the front desk or flirting with patrons have been done. They always have some excuse that would sound reasonable if it wasnt for the fact that its literally ALWAYS an excuse.

Working with a female for cleanup and whatnot inevetably turns into her trying to divvy up tasks in a way where she gets the easy shit and you do all the difficult or tedious shit and still finish first, then have to help with her shit because she "is like, sooooo totally tired and not with it today" just like every other day.

This is not just 1 female, its literally working with any of the dozen females weve hired on.

Or they call me and say "oh gee user, I've got to go to my cousins nephews wife's daughter's piano recital right in the middle of my shift can you take it"

On a friday night, at 9:30 in the evening. They dont even try to run with the lie, thier snapchat videos are clubbing and social gatherings the whole time.

No complaints, extra hours for me. I never get tired of hearing the females ask "ugh, why is your check bigger than mine!"

And replying with "because I covered 4 of you gals' shifts this month."

You are clergy sexist and enabling the patriarchy.

They receive what they are worth. Bitch makes me a ton of money I pay her a ton of money. Of she can't climb out on a beam 500 feet above ground and hook a cable then why the fuck should I pay her the same as the guy who can?

Cuz she has a bergyner.

I cant... Defending something that doesent excist is impossible. Sorry.

it can b closed by hiring only women. addded bonus companies, pay 33% less and can spend the money on mo programs. it would be a new gold rush

It's already non-existant in jobs where women can be fucked to apply themselves as hard as men.

They want to work part-time they can earn their meagre part-time wage. That's how the system works.

read When I was an engineering first year some woman from Optus came and spoke to us about getting cadets. She blatantly said that they will pick "girls" over "men".

Despite this clear discrimination, our (female) lecturercalled her up on using "girls" instead of "women..",

STEM is filled with SOO FUCKING MANY opportunities for women. I guess the upside is that they don't really take it.

Also, fuck non-STEM fags...they are retards

If the wage gap exists, then why don't companies just fire all their male employees and only hire women? Wouldn't they be saving more money that way?

I made a music video about this issue years ago.

youtube.com/watch?v=_KIBVvBL1hQ

You wanna know what's in the box?

Women's rights.